1t-Tren and Epistane
- 05-06-2009, 08:59 PM
1t-Tren and Epistane
1st post for me but ive been around for quite some time between here and the "other" site.
Im not going to turn this into a daily log, but i will update this possibly every other day to answer questions and recieve feedback. I actually started this cycle 2.5 weeks ago and decided to share this with those that are interested, and also for some encouraging words from time to time. I'm no novice when it comes ph's, it all started with Andro back in the day, 1ad, superdrol, and 3ad, to name a few.
im 35yo, 5'11", 220lbs, probably 12-15%, don't have a tanita or calipers. I shop for 34" waist pants, just to give you an idea. my goal with this cycle is to reach 235lbs. I know its possible, i went from 218 to 230 on two bottles of 3ad at six caps a day last november, then lost it all gradually this past winter, strength didn't really drop though. figure that one out. Ok, so here's what you've been waiting for..
When I started planning this out and researching, YES, I SAID RESEARCHING!!!!! lol. I was just going to run Epistane, then I decided at the last minute to throw in a tren product of sorts, ideally it was going to be Trenadrol from Kilosports, but then the true validity of the product left questions in my head, and while im not trying to say anything negative about this product, i just wasn't comfortable with it, but most of all, the good guys at Primordial Performance had granted us with a BOGO offer I couldn't refuse!!!!!!
The original plan for epi was open ended... 5 or 6 weeks depending on sides/gains. 30/30/30/40/40/40
I was 1.5 weeks in when my 1t-tren arrived, so this is what im planning now...6 weeks of epistane and the full six weeks of 1t-tren which will total 7.5 weeks on, or 6 weeks total cycle length and increase the pumps from 5 to 6 as i will have 50 pumps left in the bottle after 4.5 weeks. First and foremost this is subject to change based on how I am feeling and how the gains in size and strength are coming along.
I could go on and write pages about this, but I will await your questions...
By the way, I'm 2.5 weeks into Epistane at 30mgs daily and 1 week into 5 pumps and I've amassed 2 whole pounds.
My diet is as such...
4000 cals--today it was 4800.
protein 400g-- today 452
carbs 350g--today 346
fats 150g--today 196 (76 grams just from peanut butter)
So anyway, the 2 pounds just showed up on the scale yesterday, and stuck around for today, so maybe this is the start of some serious growth!!!!!!
Ok, like I said before, I could write a book on this, but I will open it up to questions and comments and the rest of the information will soon be revealed.
- 05-06-2009, 09:04 PM
- 05-06-2009, 09:40 PM
I'm interested to see your results. Hit me up if you have any questions about our 1-T Tren. The 1-T Tren will take at least 2-3 weeks to start to kick in, so you should see some nice effects in the coming weeks.
Epi at 30mg/day is still somewhat on the low side for you size. I liked that you started low though so you can adjust as needed; especially since you're stacking it with our 1-T Tren.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
05-07-2009, 07:48 PM
thanks for the interest Trauma, I was hoping you or Eric would stop by. Im patiently waiting for the growth to really kick in. The pumps I've been getting have been noticebly more intense, and I feel like I'm getting stronger. I changed gyms a week before I started this cycle so its harder to compare the numbers (cable machines on back day). I feel a bit stronger on chest day though, plates are plates no matter what gym your in. lol
I overheard this one ol'timer at the gym, a former power lifter, recommending to someone else about a running a 5x5 to increase his bench. I've never trained this way before, always pyramid 12,10,8,6. So Im modifying my routine by adding a 5x5 on each day. I train one body part per day...
So today for instance I did one warm up set of 135x14 then 3 sets of 225. I increased the weight to 245 for the last two sets as I felt like I could do more. Today was my first time trying this routine, so I wasn't sure of the weight to start with. Next week I will run it at 245x5. The rest of my workout continued with inline bench, decline dumbells, cable crossovers from the low cables and the upper cables, all ran at 12,10,8,6. I was rock solid for about 2 hours after completion, insane pumps!!
In regards to the epi dosing, I didn't want to go crazy with something I've never used and wanted to be able to ramp up as necessary. I know its milder than SD inwhich I did well with and no major sides, I just wanted to be patient and smart about it. I did, however, bump it to 40mgs yesterday five days earlier than planned. I guess my patience was running thin. lol
Please feel free to critique the addition of the 5x5 mixed in with the pyramid, just trying to mix things up a bit
05-07-2009, 08:03 PM
It's really refreshing to see you views here; especially in terms of starting low and adjusting as needed. I think so many guys today think that more is better; that couldn't be farther from the truth in so many ways. It's always best with a new compound to try it at a low dose, and even use initially as a solo project.
I really think things will start to kick in for you nicely in the next few weeks. Make sure you're saturating your upper torso/shoulders with the 1-T Tren; and that you're leaving it on as long as possible between showers.
Your training schedule/split almost looks identical to what i do, lol. Nice work my man.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
05-07-2009, 08:59 PM
I'm glad I decided to post this cycle. This is the first time I've ever logged anything like this and I hope to recieve more reaction, good or bad, based on my routine and supplementation.
I'm a firm believer in less is more, however...I stacked the 2 compounds to create that one-two punch in an effort to really be able to gain 15 pounds of lbm. I lost 10 pounds through out the winter and then I tried running another compound in march that I ended early due to a loss in strength and lethargy. I was determined to get on a stack that would undoubtedly allow me to achieve my goals. I know its early yet, but so far the effects I'm feeling are tenfold better than where I was at in March.
I apply the 1-T Tren in the morning after a shower, from wrist to wrist, waist line to neck, just like the bottle shows. I usually wait about 15 minutes to put on a shirt. I do recall you responding in someone elses thread about the lotions put into the mixture to keep the skin from drying out. Baby soft, Baby soft lol
05-07-2009, 09:21 PM
05-08-2009, 07:11 PM
Been working on a roofing project the last two days, won't ever do that again while on a cycle. Back pumps were horrendus. I had taurine on hand, 50mg capsules, took 10 when I started, no help whatsoever. Popped some more throughout the day but it didn't make a difference. I have to go back on Monday to finish it, what else can I do to alleviate this and make my day more productive? I never felt pain or discomfort like this from back pumps. gonna make sure I have some bananas also..
05-08-2009, 07:21 PM
-Taurine: Taurine is an amino sulfonic acid that is found in high levels in the skeletal and heart muscles of humans, as well as in white blood cells, and the central nervous system. Taurine aids the movement of potassium, sodium, calcium, and magnesium in and out of cells and thus helps generate nerve impulses. Muscle pumps/cramping occurs when there is a disruption of the movement of these electrolytes in and out of muscle cells. See below for a more detailed explanation of the pathway. Dosing: (5-6) grams/daily can be taken to help limit excessive muscle pumps/cramping that may occur. I recommend dosing both pre(3 grams)/post(3 grams)workout.
-Fluid/electrolyte intake: It is also very important that you keep your fluid and electrolyte(sodium,potassium,c alcium,magnesium) intake very sufficient throughout the day. Fluid/electrolyte loss through training depletes interstitial fluids(basically the fluid that lies outside of the cells)which also attributes to muscle pump/cramping issues, and here's how:
Painful muscle pumps/cramps occur due to loss of the osmotically active particles(mainly NaCL or salt) outside the cell within the interstitial spaces. This causes a disturbance in the osmotic balance(pull) of fluid moving in and out of muscle cells. This then results in muscle cells excessively swelling(because they contain more osmotically active particles and fluid)and you develop very painful pumps. This process can also lead to problems with the calcium pump inside muscle cells. This will cause VERY painful cramps due to the muscle being locked in a contractive state. This is why adequate fluid and electrolye intake during training is very important to maintain this balance and prevent these issues.
Check this out as well:
I'd take some gatorade up there on the roof with you.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
05-09-2009, 07:26 PM
Yesterday was supposed to be bi's and tri's, but I only had time for bi's. Nothing major to report, good pumps, moderate strength. I have to get a brace for my left forearm. I've always battled with soreness, but with the heavier weights its more apparent, and actually limited me on concentration curls.
Today I was able to hit the gym after work and complete my arm routine, putting the hurt to my triceps. lol After 4 days of bumping Epi to 40 mgs (2 pwo) I'm starting to notice some intense focus and aggression towards the weights. It really hit me after warming up with a couple sets of pressdowns and setting up to for over head dumbbell extensions. I've only done these once before so I really didn't have a starting point. I picked up a 45 pounder and ripped off 12 to get accquainted with the movement. Then 55 for 12, 70 for 10, then 80 for 10. By now, my tri's had a great pump going and I loved it when I pulled the weight over my head on the last rep to slam it on the floor in front of me. (i don't mean drop, i do these seated on a bench) At this point,I felt like I cheated myself by not starting with a higher weight so I grabbed a 90 and did a 5th set of 8 reps and I could've gone at least 2 more reps but I didn't. I definitely had something left in the tank, but knew I still had 12 more sets or tri's to complete. The 110 pounder will be my bitch next Friday!
As I look at my log book, I pretty much had strength increases on most of my exercises yesterday and today, as compared with last week.
This next week should be interesting as most people say that 40 mgs of epi is the sweet spot, this will be my first full week at 40. plus the 5 pumps. lol
05-10-2009, 03:01 AM
this is legit i might throw in epi to my xhms now
05-11-2009, 09:44 PM
Ok boys and girls...
Today was good day, I got back on that roof and back pumps were minimal, compared with last Friday. Then I hit the gym and had a stellar delt workout!
First I'll get into some numbers, and then I will elaborate...
Behind the neck press: 135/12 155/10 185/8 185/8
Upright Rows: 80/12 100/10 120/8 110/10
Arnold Press: 30/11 30/11 35/10 40/7
Side Lateral Raises: 25/12 30/12 35/10 40/8
Rear Delt Raises: 30/12 35/10 35/10 40/8
Seated Shrugs: 140/12 180/10 200/8 220/8
Lately on the Press, I've been finishing off with 175 for 6 or 7 reps
Upright Row last week finished with 110 for 8 reps. I was feeling really good on these, great pump going and my traps were HUGE, I got a little greedy early and shoulda went 110 on the 3rd set, 120 to fail on the last, but I was in the zone!
On the Arnold Press I started with what I did on my 2nd set last week. I have only been doing 3 sets of these till I really get used to the muscle contractions, but today was the exception. I ripped off 35 for 10 as opposed to last week...35 for 6. I felt stronger even though I killed them on the last two exercises, and did the 4th set 40 for 7. Im really starting to like this movement, its only my 3rd week of doing them.
The next two exercises were comparable to last weeks, +/- a rep or two
Seated Shrugs, For years I've been using the smith machine with the bar in front of me, and on most days finishing with 275-315 on the bar. Recently, I was reading an old magazine and read about someone using dumbbells, with their hands at their sides, if not a little bit behind them for better isolation and contraction at the top...this Hammer Strength machine does just that.
I put 10 lbs on every set compared with last week.
I literally feel like someone different in the gym now. I look like someone different. I weighed in today at 224lbs. Thats an increase of 4 lbs since Friday!!!! I looked back in my journal and on my start date of 4-20-09 I weighed in at 217, so thats an increase of 7 pounds in 3 weeks!
I feel pumped 24 hours a day, I wake up in the morning feeling like I just hit the gym, this **** is awesome. My Uncle came into town on Saturday and he asked my if I was taking steroids. I love it when people ask me that cause I answer them with this..."I don't put any illegal substances in my body." LOL
Thats' it for today...sorry to have written an essay, but I just can't say enough about this cycle and its really just begun. I dont expect to feel anything from the 1t-tren till sometime next week, it will be 2 weeks on this wednesday.
05-16-2009, 06:19 PM
hello once again...
Ive decided to post updates once a week as opposed to daily. Overall it was a good week. I got stronger on every lift this week, increasing the finishing weight by 20 lbs on most exercises. For instance, cable rows went from 220/8 to 220/10 and 240/8.
Hammer Strength Iso rows went from 90/10 to 100/8 and 110/6.
On chest day, I felt really good. After one warm up set I jumped into a 5x5 with 245 on the bar, up 20 from last week. Next week I will go for 265 5x5. After increasing the 5x5, I still felt strong enough to go up on the incline bench. Last week, 205/8 and 225/5. This week 225/9 and 245/6.
My weight hasn't changed, still at 223lbs (+6). Still dosing epistane at 40mgs per day and 5 pumps of 1t tren. Not sure yet, but if I don't see any changes by thursday, I might up the dosage to 50mgs per day till its gone, so 3 more weeks total.
05-16-2009, 07:14 PM
What's PCT looking like?
PM me with any order questions and concerns
05-17-2009, 11:48 AM
either formex or td formestane
diesel test 2010
AI post cycle support
I'm open to suggestions...
05-19-2009, 10:16 AM
I'm on day 9 and echo your sentiments for the combination of the epi/ 1-t tren! I can't wait to see what the next few weeks has in store. I'm up 3-5 pounds so far and the strength is already coming. I started off with the epi right away to jumpstart the cycle til the tren kicks in...it's gonna be sick!
Keep it up man, it looks tight!
05-20-2009, 07:03 PM
thats awesome, you'll have fun for sure.
On a different note, I feel like im in a rut. its probably not a big deal, but I haven't put on any weight in the last 10 days...im at the halfway point of the cycle, and im worried i won't hit my goals. It seems that with the amount of food I eat, the intensity at which I train, and the stuff Im on, I would expect a little bit more of a consistent weight increase. Starting monday I will be bumping the epi dose to 50 mgs daily--2am,2pwo, and 1 before bed. I have enough to finish out with 2 weeks at that dosage, 6 weeks of epi in total. On saturday I will start the second bottle of 1t-tren, and will continue that with 5 pumps daily till its empty, so starting tomorrow I have 25 more days of 1t-tren.
Now, here's something that entered my thoughts, I have 30 caps of Dymethazine sitting around from an earlier cycle that i stopped part way thru because the lethargy sucked, and effected how I worked, and how I worked out. I was taking 2 caps daily...1 am and 1 pwo. I know its another methyl, but I really want to see some results on this stack. My goal was to reach 230lbs or more and I really want to reach that. I don't think I could handle more calories, Im already at 4500 or more daily and showing signs of bloat in the stomach region. My thought was to add one cap of dymeth pre work out with 2 caps of epi. run that for 2 weeks til the epi is gone and then bump it to 2 per day for the last week of 1t-tren.
I read some logs where people had success with one cap of dymeth daily, and thought maybe that would be just what i needed.
05-20-2009, 10:09 PM
I don't know man, I'd say stick with the plan, maybe switch your routine up to restart the growth, JMO. I was actually considering doing the triple threat in the beginning, epi/1TT/the one, but decided 3 different substances might be a bit extreme.
I'd say error on the side of caution, if you want to add 10 mgs of epi, do it up! I just think doing that alone and adding a switch to your lifting may help, are you overtraing maybe? Eating that much while on should add!
Not telling you what to do, just offering my two cents! Based on what i can see from your routines I'd say focus more on fewer lifts, do less reps and sets, maybe 1 12 rep warmup at, say, 70-80% of your normal 12 rep weight then kill it with 2 sets in a 5-8 rep range on the same lift. Fire that weight up and take it down for 4 secs on the eccentric movement, tear them F-in fibers up! Good Luck man!
05-20-2009, 11:04 PM
this is only a complete guess on my part, and anyone can feel free to correct me if im completely wrong on this, but your lack of weight gain may be contributed to Epistane being incorporated in your cycle. I ran a 6 week cycle of Epistane about 8 months ago and one thing that Epi does is give you INSANE strength gains, however i too only gained about 4 lbs of lean muscle during the 6 week cycle, even averaging 4-5000 cals/day. im sure others will agree that Epi is a great PH for strength gains, but lacks slightly in the mass gaining department. so my theory (which anyone can feel free to correct) is that the Epi is working synergistically (SP?) with the Tren to double your strength gains while keeping you lean. just the first thoughts that came to mind for me...
05-21-2009, 01:57 PM
How many days into the run are you again, perhaps the tren hasn't fully kicked in yet?
05-21-2009, 03:59 PM
prob tren kicks in wk 3 and 4 and best in 5/6
05-21-2009, 06:44 PM
thanks for the suggestions guys...
I actually had a solid day at the gym today, couldn't wait to get home and post this. Let me start by saying that I gained 1 1/2lbs over night. So im sitting at 225lbs for the first time since last fall. Maybe the "weight gods" heard my pissing and moaning yesterday. lol
Today was chest day. Now, last week I did 245 5x5 on flat bench, and told myself right then and there that I would do 265 lbs next week. today was put up or shut up, and I PUT UP! I did the 265 5x4, and on the last set decided to go up 10 pounds, and finished the last set of 5 with a two finger spot on the last rep!!!! Amazing pump, just felt real good about that accomplishment, never did this 5x5 until recently, and prior to that would put up 275 for 1 set of 7 reps if I was lucky. The rest of the workout went well considering I just blew up the bench! lol
Now, to get back to yesterdays issue...
I also was thinking that im over-training. Starting tomorrow, I'm going to back down to 3 sets instead of 4 and stay in that 5-8 rep range. I am also going to look into my routine and see what else I could change up. I have noticed that im at the gym on average about an hour and a half, sometimes longer. arm days--16 sets of biceps amd 16 sets of triceps, whew.
Jeremy, when I was researching epi, I knew it was a milder ph, but it wasn't impossible to put on some weight, in fact the reason i went with the epi/tren combo was because the tren increased strength and epi added size, or so I thought...
I'm going to bump it to 50 and keep the dymeth in its box. I think the epi might be a size dependant dose, if that makes sense, the bigger you are the more you need? Most of the logs where I seen people gain 10 pounds on epi, they were in the 170- 190 weight range, running 30mgs daily.
Again, thanks for the response's, sometimes we need to bounce things off of one an other and see what sticks.
And Querty, Im thinking that also, that's why a 6 week cycle is preferred, or suggested
05-21-2009, 06:49 PM
one more thing, I saw a painter on one of my jobs that I havent seen in a few weeks. He says, "you been workin out", and I respond, "a little bit", just had to chuckle a bit, though it was good to hear, probably the 2nd or 3rd compliment since I started this run.
05-23-2009, 12:01 PM
changed up my arm routine yesterday, 3 groups of supersets, 3 sets apiece. still got a good pump from it although my left forearm was killing me! I was limited in what movements I could do depending on my grip.
Top priority this weekend is buying an elbow brace.
05-26-2009, 01:31 AM
what did you end up choosing to run?
05-26-2009, 08:17 PM
i decided to add 1 cap of dymethazine per day. If I notice the first sign of lethargy or anything negative, its gone just like that. I'm also scaling back my routine to 3 working sets of 10,8,6 after i do a couple of warm up exercises.
I was able to get an early workout in yesterday, but too much fun over the weekend had taken its toll, I was just glad to get in there and get the muscles pumped. LOL
Today was back day, and other than leaving off the first set of every workout, not much of a change from last week...im still strong as hell, but not stronger. ha ha Actually, I was able to do lat pulldowns 240/6, up 20 pounds from last week. Its been a long time since I was able to let the stack pull me out of the seat on the last rep!
pumps were great, lookin huge! weight was up to 226(+9)
05-28-2009, 03:11 AM
sounds good but you said +9lbs what is your current cycle?
05-28-2009, 08:09 AM
05-29-2009, 06:06 PM
05-29-2009, 06:12 PM
05-29-2009, 10:51 PM
nice im on week2 of just 1-t tren and the strength is sick
05-29-2009, 11:38 PM
Just wait, the sick gets INSANE brother! It's awesome!
05-31-2009, 04:06 AM
cant wait.. almost at my all time maxes on everything
06-01-2009, 03:49 PM
Had a great shoulder workout today. trying to work around the tennis elbow, and it actually went pretty good. The only discomfort came with side lateral raises, but it wasn't that bad, the forearm strap seems to be working. I added 2 more pounds to the scale today, weight is up to 228. Thats an 11 pound increase so far! I've still got two weeks to hit my goal of 230+, and Im really gonna make sure that happens.
06-01-2009, 03:52 PM
oh, and Buf, I have my pct stated in a previous post. However, Im probably going to have to choose another test booster since the diesel test is out of stock everywhere.
06-05-2009, 11:33 AM
Hey man, how things finishing up with the cycle?
06-08-2009, 05:59 PM
sorry for the absence, there hasn't been much to report. My weight is still around 226-228lbs which is good, not what I expected, but it's respectable. Still have a little over one week left on the 1-t tren. I bumped it to 7 pumps a day starting today, I accumulated a couple extra days worth of pumps by low dosing on off days, so I figured what the hell, lets do this!!
The epi is still ran at 50 and will run out this week, I think wednesday. I have 20 caps of dymethazine and that will give me 10 days worth, it should run out at the same time as the 1-t tren.
Today at the gym...
Shoulders, I didn't go crazy today with heavy lifts, well, yes I did. It just didn't feel like I did, I guess thats a good thing. Military press finished out at 195/6, which is pretty good, could've gone higher, but im keeping to the 3 set rule. The big shock for me was barbell shrugs. I haven't used this particular exercise in months! I've been doing seated dumbell shrugs to isolate the traps and they been noticably getting huge. Today I decided to set up the rack with a barbell and have at it. Typically I would rep out with 275, 315, somewhere in that range.
I borrowed the house straps and hit 315/12, 365/10, 415/8 wholly ****!!!!I noticed how having a stronger back and legs allowed me to do this. I felt no worries about them failing me.
Any way, its time for dinner I'll be back
I hit 285 5x5 last week on bench
06-17-2009, 10:41 AM
That Tren is gonna rock your world, buddy! Any shutdown issues yet? J/W. It shut me down hard after week 3 on Tren-X, which is oral version of 1-T Tren. I'd recommend Clomid, PCS/aPCT, and a natty test booster during PCT if you shutdown.
I'd also say formestane & vitex are good choices for estrogen/prolactin control during cycle on Tren only. Good luck keeping your gains. TRS helped me keep mine.
06-18-2009, 09:35 PM
completed the cycle today...I lost 5 ****in pounds in the last week!!! I know my calories were down compared to normal, but whatever. strength was still up I did my max bench today. With the guidance of 2 former p-lifters, i did 365 x 2 and 405 x1!!! I was very surprised by this as they were really impressed when i told them i never tested for this before. I was lifting 295 x 5 for 2 sets last week. I will now follow a 16 week lifting protocol with these 2 guys.
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