Methyl 4AD log
- 01-14-2004, 10:25 PM
- 01-14-2004, 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by Bobo
Thats not constructive? I give up then.For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
- 01-14-2004, 11:00 PM
That 50 lb gain is on a smith machine too, guys get gains like that on machines natural if they haven't been pushing it on that machine.
Lean, stick it out. You were just testing it, right? No sense risking the sides for a couple pounds, if this stuff isn't working for you then quitting it makes more sense than increasing dose.
01-14-2004, 11:07 PM
Bobo, you must have posted that while i was typing mine. I never saw it. Having read it now, I thank you for your reply. After the last post, I downed another 40mg to total 120 today. Can you tell I'm getting a little cynical now? I do apreciate your input. Try to understand that this is getting frustrating for me and taking the heat from you has disrupted my vibe. It's not your fault,Thats my problem. Anyway thanks for the reply. Your input has been helpfull through all this.Originally Posted by Bobo
01-14-2004, 11:12 PM
Sounds good. This is the life of a beta tester. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Look foward to your M5AA. THats should help lighten the mood...
For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
01-14-2004, 11:14 PM
01-15-2004, 08:06 AM
OK, New plan...
I've come to the conclusion that If I'm going to get anathing from this, I have to take it up a notch. I reread sixth sense's post, and he did 250/day for two weeks and gained 4lbs. This was with below maintenance calories and only 75gm of carbs per day. He also reported the same positive effects that I have noticed. The only negative was a mild increase in acne. No estrogenic sides . I started with 4 bottles, and the first one has about 1/3 left. If I dose it at 200 mg/day, Each bottle will last only 5 days. I have enough to last me about 17 to 19 days at that dose. So, what I'm going to do is 200/day for another 5 to 7 days and toss in the Methyl 5AA at 30mg/day untill the M4AD is gone. It's obvious now that just from a cost issue, this is not a practical supplement. Unless Sldge wants to sell it for $10 a bottle. Plus the issue of liver stress from this kind of dose makes it something I would not recomend to anyone. So at this point I just want to walk away from this with some decent gains, and not feel like I wasted my time. I downed 100mg this morning. I'm now squiting 5ml into a little medicine cup and tossing it back. At least I know I'm getting my omega 3"s. Today is back day. the workout should prove intresting. Say a prayer to the liver gods for me. At least this will be a shorter cycle than what was planned.(less than 30 days.)
01-15-2004, 09:28 AM
First to reiterate Bobo's post that VPX rep sixsense is a total fraud, he went by the nom-de-guerre's of theone,bodyfx etc and gave out mis-information like VPXm-1-t has less or no liver sides. I would just ignore his post about 250 m-4ad. He got flamed and banned on this site I think.
And you should have more discipline in your regiment. You started at 60mg and said that you didn't get fatter and all your exercises jumped 10-20lbs in one week. If that isn't good I don't know what will make you happy with the exception of methyl-tren.
You should stick to 100mg-120mg for this week and the next instead of wildly dosing 200mg and remember your not a big guy at 156(if I remember correctly).
Wildly dosing 200mg will not tell the rest of us what moderately high dosages will do. Since even dbol takes about a week to kick in, you're expecting too much of m-4ad.
01-15-2004, 09:50 AM
I hear you man. I know all about sixth sense. I see your other points as well and I plan to be very careful watching for sides. If any estrogenic sides come up I'll use the nolva.At this point I just want to get this over with and chalk it up as a learning experience. Thanks for your concern.
01-15-2004, 10:11 AM
01-15-2004, 10:41 AM
No, I'm not sure,but I diddn't notice much diference between 40 and 80. I'm just getting tired of feeling like this is a waste. I know it sounds reckless, but at least the rest of the cycle will be under 20 days. Rest assured, I won't be doing this again.Originally Posted by MarcusG
01-15-2004, 12:48 PM
I think you should stick it out at the 120mg mark for another week and judge your results from that point. Jumping to 200mg and then adding 30mg of M5AA is a bit much for two basically untested products.
01-15-2004, 01:03 PM
I've been thinking about it and you guys are probably right. I was thinking that since I'm dosing this much already, I may as well go all the way and keep the cycle short. A part of me doesn't like the Idea of dragging it out longer than I have to. Mabey I'll stay at 120 for a couple days and bump it up 20mg every couple days as long as the sides aren't bad. I really want to come away from this with some success.
Bobo or Sldge, I would love to hear your thoughts. I'm open to suggestions.
01-15-2004, 01:23 PM
I'm with the rest holmes, you're playin' with matches right now. Be careful or you might get burnt. IMHO, if the $hit hasn't done much by now, either wait it out with the same dose, or just quit. Definately don't bump it to 200-250?? Thats just asking for trouble here, IMO. Remember, noone has ever had any tests run with this compound, so you don't really know what the thin line will be when it comes to hepatoxicity. I could see if there were actually older user reports of a certain range of dosing for preventative measures, but we don't even have that yet. I'm just lookin' out for you bro, it just seems to me that you want it to blow you up overnight, or whatever. Remember, this is a beta test, if nothing good comes out of it, thats alright, its a beta test. This is the reason we all agreed to do this in the first place.
Hope you really reevaluate your motives here, and good luck....
01-15-2004, 01:41 PM
I think MarcusG has some good points here. If your making good strength gains than its definatley working. Think about it, halotestin won't add much weight either but that doesn't mean its not any good. Its one of the best for raw strength gains. So It sounds like you have the wrong compound for the type of results you want to see. I'm sure a powerlifter would be very happy increasing strenght that quick. Also if your only 156lbs your obviously not the easiest gainer in the world and I can't see anything putting much weight on you at one time.Originally Posted by MarcusG
01-15-2004, 04:21 PM
Alright, I decided to stay at 120 for a couple days. After all, The main purpose here is to test it. I did commit to finding just what an effective dose is among other things,and It would be selfish of me to say **** it and go nuts.Sorry for the drama guys. try to bear with me.
01-15-2004, 07:18 PM
I have an m4ad and m5aa stack i am going to test for sledge.
But i will never use that much. Good god, this **** is methylated for christs sake.
I admit i am a newbie except for a couple of ph cycles. But i thought methyl substances were toxic to the liver.
I dont think it will be worth my time to do just a little bit of this m4ad. Plus gyno scares the hell out of me. If i get little lumps now, i could no longer experiment with any of the more effective aromitizables.
Does anyone have any suggestions on an m4ad m5aa stack?
After reading this thread i dont think it will be worth the risks involved.
I am not a hardcore beta tester so sue me.
01-15-2004, 09:45 PM
You never know. It could work pretty good in a stack like that. I will say that this is the end of the seccond day at 120mg and I still don't feel any diferent. No bloat and I've been rubbing my nipples like a porn star and they feel completly normal. Go figure. My workout kicked ass today the pump was awesome and I never looked bigger. Still no change in weight though. I'll stay at 120 through tomorrow,and then I may take it up to 140mg.Originally Posted by Yimen E.Cricket
01-15-2004, 10:49 PM
It looks like M-4AD is a failure. Look, even if you do get some decent action at 120 mg per day, look at the expense compared to M 1-T. A days worth of M-4AD costs $0.60 while a more effective 20 mg shot of M 1-T is $0.24.
Plus the estrogen risk....I think Mrs Skark wants to have the biggest rack in the family
Lean, thanks for the effort dude
01-15-2004, 11:24 PM
I think its better to leave Lean alone to run 120mg (or more) for at least 3 weeks. Jeez its not even 2 weeks yet and people are already saying m-4ad is an expensive titty booster.
Last I heard on this thread it puts 10-20lbs on main exercises with minimal bloat and moderate weight gain.
And theres no reason to get tits even if it doesn't work well. Just stop at the first uncomfortable signs and tell everyone, the sides aren't worth the small or moderate gains.
A potential problem is peeking into another log and getting envious you're not making the same gains. Also I shouldn't have mention the damn mental feeling of well being on one log because I could've skewed feedback.
01-16-2004, 06:33 AM
It's nice that some people can see that I am not just doing this for myself,and that I am doing a service here. Thanks for the reply. I've already concluded that It's not worth it from a cost perspective, but some might disagree.Remember there are pluses about this so far. The increased strength and pumps are cool, and the mood elevation is nice.(probably not as pronounced as the 1,4 though.) Also sex drive is up. The wierd thing about that is that it seems to be improving my drive from a mental aspect. I did wake up with wood this morning too. So, It's not all bad.Originally Posted by Skark
You're right Marcus, I think I started to get discouraged when I saw the initial feedback coming from the 1,4 testers. I realised the M4AD wasn't working the way I expected it too. At the same time, I started to take a lot of heat from Bobo. Nothing personal Bobo, It's all good now, It just diddn't help my perspective. Anyway, I'm feeling better about it now, and I have a better outlook. I'm gonna see it through and try to be as thurough as possible.
01-16-2004, 10:18 AM
I for one appreciate what you are doing here and would like to see you finish you cycle with a moderate dose. Perhaps you will get better results towards the end. At least four weeks would be desirable.Originally Posted by Lean One
Thanks for the effort, all in the name of science!
01-16-2004, 10:30 AM
Thanks Greenguy. If there are still no sides, after today at 120mg, I think I will go up 40 to 160 for 3 more days. I there is some signifigant change and it looks like a good dose, I'll stay there. If not, Then its up to 180 for 3 days. So far no maijor changes to report.Originally Posted by Greenguy
Took my BP this morning. 135/70. Totaly fine.
01-16-2004, 01:21 PM
Like was said before - that is the life of a beta tester or lab rat. And, to be a tester who provides something worthwhile, you should not get frustrated over it, but follow the prescribed regimen to a T. It is a test - if it does not work, that is important to know. If you keep messing around with the dosing becasue of your emotional reactions to it and the posts here, how will anyone ever get anything useful out it? And a waste of what? You are a tester...that implies that there were no guarantees.Originally Posted by Lean One
Don't let your emotions screw up the idea of learning something important.
01-16-2004, 01:43 PM
Yeah, I know. I'm past all that now. I'm sticking to the plan of increasing the dose every 3 days till there is some signifigant change. Good or bad. I figure 3 days should be enough time to asess the dose with a methyl. If I top out at 200 and still get no changes, then the test is over.Originally Posted by Jack of Shadows
01-16-2004, 02:23 PM
My opion...I think you should stick to a lower dose. What if 30mg a day is ideal, but it takes two weeks to see the full effect? If there is a delay in the effect of the product, you may end up with some nasty sides in your near future.
Running 200mg of an untested methyl product is a bit risky if you ask me, a few weeks of frustration is a much better result than a 'blown out' liver, 'man boobs', or a new shiny bald head.
01-16-2004, 02:25 PM
01-16-2004, 03:18 PM
Listen. I don't have to justify my actions to you or anyone. Feel free to test this out yourself using diferent parameters. I'm sticking to MY plan unless I hear otherwise from Sldge.
01-16-2004, 03:32 PM
Are you sure there are no estrogenic sides? I can just imagine your hand on your hip when I read that response. No one was asking for justification - they were suggesting or asking that you approach this in a way that might ultimately be of some use.
Do whatever you like. Just realize that it will be of no real use to anyone with a brain.
01-16-2004, 04:08 PM
It's a forgone conclusion that M4AD is not practical from a cost stanpoint and the high doses nesesary. Thats what I've learned so far. Mabey there's a reason VPX is recomending 250mg/day. Because they tested it before me. Very few people will use this. Not when you have M1,4ADD, M1-T,M-dien,and M5AA. Pesonally, I'm already stocking up on M1,4ADD. So far, those are my conclusions. I said if it wasn't worthwhile, I would admit it. JMO, it's not worthwhile. I think what I have learned so far is very useful to me. Probably others too.
01-17-2004, 07:36 AM
Saturday morning... Up another pound today. This is a small milestone for me. The last time I weighed 160,I was around 15% BF. Woke up with wood the last two mornings. other than that, no changes. Did the nipple test;Nothing. No bloat either. Going up to 160mg today.
Hmmm... Just a thought. Half joking half serious. Mabey this stuff should be dosed at 1mg/lb of bodyweight?? I think I'm getting close to an effective dose.
01-17-2004, 10:39 AM
Maybe...depends on how one defines practical and worthwhile. It is a compound I have been waiting to see for quite some time - not necessarily as a way to gain incredible amounts of mass, but as ongoing hormonal support - perhaps between cycles of other more effective mass builders. So I had hoped to get some indication of what would happen if it were used at moderate (reasonable?) doses over longer periods of time. Of course, I realize that most folks on these boards couldn't give a damn about that type of use for these compounds. Hence, I guess that is a test I will have to do for myself.
BTW, I applaud your willingness to post a log in any case. It seems to me that most people who do so to try to help others (of course, some do so because it is cool) catch so much crap that it is hardly worth the effort. Last time I posted results - on M1T (as an older lifter) and with which I had only modest results at best and felt that the sides, most notably the lethargy, out weighed the positives - so many people implied I was lying that I realized why I had never done so before and would not do so again.
Stomped the crap out of my prosocial behavior.
01-17-2004, 11:13 AM
Thanks for the supportive comments. One thing that I've been thinking about in regards to the gains I have made is that They seem to have come slow and steady,and despite my expectations,they are relatively lean and dry. Relative being the key word here. I was thinking that if the gains come on slower and are leaner, that it wouldn't overwhelm the body and that might mean they could be more easily retained after the cycle. Just a thought. As far as hormonal support between cycles a transdermal would siut that purpose better. Remember It is a methyl. You would also have to consider the issue of supression.Originally Posted by Jack of Shadows
01-18-2004, 08:26 AM
Sunday... Start of day 2 at 160mg. No changes to report. Just finished legs. I reinjured by back on my last set of squats w/200 on my back. I have a herniated disc as a reminder of my years as a manual laborer. It wasn't too bad; It could have been worse. I racked it after 2 reps. Still, This is not good. I was able to finish up with leg extentions and calf work. I think my days of squating may be over. We'll see. This shouldn't affect my other workouts, I just have to be careful and take care of this. It sucks none the less.
01-19-2004, 07:47 AM
Monday... Up another pound. BP unchanged. No sides. Day 2 at 160mg. I think the idea of dosing at 1mg/lb of bodyweight might have some merrit. I'd be curious to know your thoughts on this so far Sldge,if you are following this. I'm taking today off except for cardio. Want to give the back some rest.I should be OK in a couple days.
I would also like some opinions on how to incorperate the M5AA into this. Tomorow will be 2 weeks and I was thinking of not going longer than 4 weeks. I was wondering if it would make any diference if I Ran the two together for the last 2 weeks, or If I just ran the M5AA alone for the last 2 weeks.Any opinions?
01-19-2004, 01:11 PM
01-19-2004, 01:13 PM
01-19-2004, 01:18 PM
01-19-2004, 01:44 PM
01-19-2004, 02:35 PM
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