Test E/Tren E/D-bol...cycle

[Anamolic08]

Hey guys. I've got about five cycles under my belt mostly test/deca/anavar/win...

I want to do a real bulking cycle now...this is what I had in mind:

Test E: 600mg/week (1-12)
Tren E: 400mg/week (1-8)
D-bol: 50mg/daily (1-6)

HCG 250x2/week (2-14)
Tamoxifen 20mg/daily week (1-14...possibly 40mg/daily if needed with the dbol and test being stacked) - to prevent gyno.

I also was wondering if it was a good idea to add deca lets say 250 mg/week for weeks (1-9). Would it add to the results? And what would be good to replace the dbol after week 6? possibly anavar for weeks (6-12)?

PCT includes up til 2 weeks of HCG after last injection with tamoxifen being at 40mg for those 2 weeks for sure...then clomid for another two weeks: 300 day 1...100 days 2-7...50 days 8 -14.

Been really trying to make this cycle right...but if the vets here could touch this up to make it a great cycle with little worry of gyno let me know...and would ARIMIDEX play a good role in this cycle instead or in combination with taking the tamoxifen. All the ins and outs on a cycle like this appreciated.

thanks guys,
Anamolic:nutkick:

 

[crazyfool405]

Hey guys. I've got about five cycles under my belt mostly test/deca/anavar/win...

I want to do a real bulking cycle now...this is what I had in mind:

Test E: 600mg/week (1-12)
Tren E: 400mg/week (1-8)
D-bol: 50mg/daily (1-6)

HCG 250x2/week (2-14)
Tamoxifen 20mg/daily week (1-14...possibly 40mg/daily if needed with the dbol and test being stacked) - to prevent gyno.

I also was wondering if it was a good idea to add deca lets say 250 mg/week for weeks (1-9). Would it add to the results? And what would be good to replace the dbol after week 6? possibly anavar for weeks (6-12)?

PCT includes up til 2 weeks of HCG after last injection with tamoxifen being at 40mg for those 2 weeks for sure...then clomid for another two weeks: 300 day 1...100 days 2-7...50 days 8 -14.

Been really trying to make this cycle right...but if the vets here could touch this up to make it a great cycle with little worry of gyno let me know...and would ARIMIDEX play a good role in this cycle instead or in combination with taking the tamoxifen. All the ins and outs on a cycle like this appreciated.

thanks guys,
Anamolic:nutkick:

ok...................

#1, cycles good, i would do EQ at week 6 and run it to the end
Test E 600mg 1-14
Dbol 40-50mg 1-6
EQ 400-500mg 6-14

#2, Adex .5mg to 1mg EOD while ON. if gyno comes about, or if you just want to run it through out.

#3 i think PCT should be....
1 week after last Shot 2000Ius hCG e3d for total of 5 shots
then 3 weeks of clomid at 100mg per day
and .5 mg ED for the whole 5 week PCT.

#4 nolva and arimidex dont work well together, but on the other hand nolva and aromasin do work well together.

juss my .02

 

[Anamolic08]

stacking

Now I'm considering stacking TestE/Dbol/eq...possibly deca with those three and cut the tren out...think the sides outweigh the results...tried finaplix back when I was 19 and broke out on my face...luckily no scarring but if I had not stopped it could have...plus everything else that can happen...so new cycle I've configured...

testE - 500-600 mg/week
EQ - 400-500 mg/week
dbol 50mg/daily for 6 weeks on
deca 250 mg/week 9 weeks on
switch to anavar/and or winstrol tabs for the remaining 6 weeks...
HCG 250x2/week <--when is the best week to start during cycle?
nolva 20-40mg/daily

think that would be a pretty wicked cycle!

 

[crazyfool405]

Now I'm considering stacking TestE/Dbol/eq...possibly deca with those three and cut the tren out...think the sides outweigh the results...tried finaplix back when I was 19 and broke out on my face...luckily no scarring but if I had not stopped it could have...plus everything else that can happen...so new cycle I've configured...

testE - 500-600 mg/week
EQ - 400-500 mg/week
dbol 50mg/daily for 6 weeks on
deca 250 mg/week 9 weeks on
switch to anavar/and or winstrol tabs for the remaining 6 weeks...
HCG 250x2/week <--when is the best week to start during cycle?
nolva 20-40mg/daily

think that would be a pretty wicked cycle!

hCG not on cycle,

still use the same PCT i layed out

1 week after last shot
2000ius hCG for a total of 5 shots then
100mg clomid for 3 weeks
and .5 mg adex the entire 5 week PCT

 

[Anamolic08]

pct

Hey Crazy thanks for the input...
But I've been reading that high dosages of hcg are not good for any given time...and my thing with Arimidex is that it kills my libido for some reason...I've always had good luck with nolvadex...so I'm concerned using Arim/HCG high dosages...plus my clinician is telling me to take the hcg during the cycle, as I've done it pct so many times before...just wanted to change it up. But I will consider it, especially how High I'm going with a COMBINED dosage of several meds altogether. Thanks man!

Anamoli:food:

 

[tnick7]

Test/EQ/Dbol

EQ needs to be run a while, at least 12-14 weeks.

So:

Test E/C: 1-14 @ 600mg
EQ: 1-14 @ 400mg
Dbol: 1-4 @ 50mg


PCT:

Nolva 40/20/20/20/10
Clomid 100/50/50

Have an AI (letro or arimidex IMO) on hand for bloat)

EDIT: I would also personally run some hCG. Probably Week 6-16 @ 250iu twice a week, but you do not want HCG in PCT

 

[Anamolic08]

Thanks nick, hey when you mean have arimidex ready in case of bloating...would you take a certain dosage at any given point in time? Also, I always run nolvadex on cycle because of gyno prevention...and from what I know taking nolva and arimidex arent recommended.

As far as HCG this will be the first time I've taken HCG while on, as I've taken it PCT throughout all my other cycles which has worked just fine for me...but will definitely do hcg on this time. thanks for the input.

 

[crazyfool405]

Hey Crazy thanks for the input...
But I've been reading that high dosages of hcg are not good for any given time...and my thing with Arimidex is that it kills my libido for some reason...I've always had good luck with nolvadex...so I'm concerned using Arim/HCG high dosages...plus my clinician is telling me to take the hcg during the cycle, as I've done it pct so many times before...just wanted to change it up. But I will consider it, especially how High I'm going with a COMBINED dosage of several meds altogether. Thanks man!

Anamoli:food:

I think using hCG will cause desensitation if used everyday, although i havent seen to many studies with high doses,

your gunna shock your testis with that amount, but a lot of aromatization will occur which is why u use Adex,

if it kills toi much estro and libido becomes a problem, you can use it every other day. so .5mg EOD, but its needed every day while on PCT at .5mgED or 1mg EOD. find the dose that works for you. but ADEX isnt the only choice, u can use 10mg aromasin ED during the whole PCT.

 

[crazyfool405]

Thanks nick, hey when you mean have arimidex ready in case of bloating...would you take a certain dosage at any given point in time? Also, I always run nolvadex on cycle because of gyno prevention...and from what I know taking nolva and arimidex arent recommended.

As far as HCG this will be the first time I've taken HCG while on, as I've taken it PCT throughout all my other cycles which has worked just fine for me...but will definitely do hcg on this time. thanks for the input.

Arimidex can help with gyno and bloat while on cycle, .5 mg EOD. if u get gyno and need to rid it, trhen do it every day till sympoms dissappear then run it a few more days.

theres also no synergy on running nolva/clomid combo, if i were to do both of them , 1t would be 2 weeks of each starting with clomid, finishing with low dose nolva, and aromasin towards the end of the nolva, finishing a day of 2 after.

an not having hCG in PCT in that long of a cycle is absurd, no benifit, while on,

Why keep turning your testis on when they will shut right back off, they wont forget how to produce. makes no sense.

 

[tnick7]

Thanks nick, hey when you mean have arimidex ready in case of bloating...would you take a certain dosage at any given point in time? Also, I always run nolvadex on cycle because of gyno prevention...and from what I know taking nolva and arimidex arent recommended.

As far as HCG this will be the first time I've taken HCG while on, as I've taken it PCT throughout all my other cycles which has worked just fine for me...but will definitely do hcg on this time. thanks for the input.

In case you bloat up you could run a low dose of arimidex on cycle to make the gains more dry, say 0.5mg EOD (or something along those lines). You may not need this.

If you are gyno prone you can run nolva on cycle at a lower dose to help you out.

HCG is best on cycle, shouldn't be used in PCT from what I read.

 

[crazyfool405]

In case you bloat up you could run a low dose of arimidex on cycle to make the gains more dry, say 0.5mg EOD (or something along those lines). You may not need this.

If you are gyno prone you can run nolva on cycle at a lower dose to help you out.

HCG is best on cycle, shouldn't be used in PCT from what I read.

gyno is caused by high estro, having something that binds to the receptors, but keeps circulating estro, is not something i want to prevent gyno, becuase when you come off its still there. Adex/letro, even any OTC AI will suffice. run it every other day it will keep estro in check as well as bloat in check, and gyno prevention.

im so confused as why people think its necesary to use hCG on cycle, ive read threads, but to tell you the truth,
#1 running it on cycle just for you testis to turn off id pointless IMO
#2 it will lead to more aromitization, for a quicker development in gyno in which case youll absolutly need the ADEX on cycle
#3 Off cycle is best becuase once your testis are on, they stay on , and you continue with therapy to keep it that way.

my .02

 

[tnick7]

gyno is caused by high estro, having something that binds to the receptors, but keeps circulating estro, is not something i want to prevent gyno, becuase when you come off its still there. Adex/letro, even any OTC AI will suffice. run it every other day it will keep estro in check as well as bloat in check, and gyno prevention.

im so confused as why people think its necesary to use hCG on cycle, ive read threads, but to tell you the truth,
#1 running it on cycle just for you testis to turn off id pointless IMO
#2 it will lead to more aromitization, for a quicker development in gyno in which case youll absolutly need the ADEX on cycle
#3 Off cycle is best becuase once your testis are on, they stay on , and you continue with therapy to keep it that way.

my .02

adex or letro will lower estrogen in your body. Nolva will block it from breast tissue, so if you are prone to gyno running some nolva is fine, many do.

I dont know much about HCG, but it should be used on cycle. Running it on cycle makes it easier to jumpstart your HPTA after a long suppression. IIRC using HCG produces synthetic LH, when you finish your cycle you want to produce natural LH, but if there is synthetic LH you wont produce it naturally, hence, dont run it on cycle. However as I said I dont know much about HCG, other than it should be used on cycle

 

[holyintellect]

adex or letro will lower estrogen in your body. Nolva will block it from breast tissue, so if you are prone to gyno running some nolva is fine, many do.

Remember though that arimidex is one step up the food chain than nolva...Arimidex PREVENTS the formation of estrogen from testosterone...nolva still allows aromatization, it simply competes at the receptor site to stop it. Obviously the arimidex is better to use DURING cycle. Nolva certainly works to a lesser degree, but if you want to really combat estrogen during the cycle, it falls short.

holy

 

[Anamolic08]

Adex

But from what I know, the problem with taking an AI during cycle is the fact that it rids the estrogen in your body...and doesn't test correllate with the necessity of a certain amount of floating estrogen in the body? So I assume also taking Adex on cycle will reduce the anabolic effect of the drugs you are taking to make the gains you want...correct me if I am wrong on this.

...and will adex actually break gyno tissue down if has already set in and rid of it?

anamolic

 

[crazyfool405]

adex or letro will lower estrogen in your body. Nolva will block it from breast tissue, so if you are prone to gyno running some nolva is fine, many do.

I dont know much about HCG, but it should be used on cycle. Running it on cycle makes it easier to jumpstart your HPTA after a long suppression. IIRC using HCG produces synthetic LH, when you finish your cycle you want to produce natural LH, but if there is synthetic LH you wont produce it naturally, hence, dont run it on cycle. However as I said I dont know much about HCG, other than it should be used on cycle

right LH mimic LH, but it also kickstarts the testis to making its own

you add the adex in to stop much of the aromitization.

after your 5 shots of hCG are completed you continue with therapy. ie clomid 100mg per day for 3 weeks along with the ADEX.

no point in priming the testis for shut down.

 

[crazyfool405]

But from what I know, the problem with taking an AI during cycle is the fact that it rids the estrogen in your body...and doesn't test correllate with the necessity of a certain amount of floating estrogen in the body? So I assume also taking Adex on cycle will reduce the anabolic effect of the drugs you are taking to make the gains you want...correct me if I am wrong on this.

...and will adex actually break gyno tissue down if has already set in and rid of it?

anamolic

ADEX wont reduce anabolic effects (it will lower estrro which is an anabolic hormone and necessary for growth) but you need to keep it nder control.
remember estrogen is the cause of gyno, minimizing estogen while still having some (the reason for the EOD .5mg therapy) on cycle is fine. and would give you less of a chance of getting gyno in the first place,

using a SERM on cycle IMO is retarted. you just block the receptors not the aromatization and that leaves a ton of circulating estro.

combating gyno, if you have it, do ADEX ED at .5 and if its still there do 1mg ED till it goes away then go back to .5mg ED for a few days then .5 EOD through the rest of the cycle.

 

[tnick7]

Crazy, put it this way, go over to another (or this) steroid board, pretend you are running a cycle with HCG in PCT you will be told not to. Anthony Roberts or David Palumbo (cant remember which one, they both had set ups that got slaughtered) had a PCT set up which was HCG for a couple of weeks, then clomid for a few weeks, then an AI. He go slaughtered for it. Its been argued before, HCG is not for PCT. Thats why you use HCG until day 1 of PCT, to kickstart your testes for PCT. You discontinue it at PCT time so you can produce LH naturally, not synthetic LH.

Anamolic running Adex on cycle is fine. This wont help with gyno if it arises though, thats when you need nolva. However with adex it shouldnt. I have seen nolva on cycle at low doses for those sensitive to gyno though many many times

 

[crazyfool405]

Crazy, put it this way, go over to another (or this) steroid board, pretend you are running a cycle with HCG in PCT you will be told not to. Anthony Roberts or David Palumbo (cant remember which one, they both had set ups that got slaughtered) had a PCT set up which was HCG for a couple of weeks, then clomid for a few weeks, then an AI. He go slaughtered for it. Its been argued before, HCG is not for PCT. Thats why you use HCG until day 1 of PCT, to kickstart your testes for PCT. You discontinue it at PCT time so you can produce LH naturally, not synthetic LH.

Anamolic running Adex on cycle is fine. This wont help with gyno if it arises though, thats when you need nolva. However with adex it shouldnt. I have seen nolva on cycle at low doses for those sensitive to gyno though many many times

if you start one week after your last shot, theres no problem.

running hCG IMO is POINTLESS on cycle. no matter where u go what board your on there are always disagreements.

 

[pistonpump]

ahhh the HCG debate again......

anyway.. i decided to state my opinions on this post.

ADEX wont reduce anabolic effects (it will lower estrro which is an anabolic hormone and necessary for growth) but you need to keep it nder control.
remember estrogen is the cause of gyno, minimizing estogen while still having some (the reason for the EOD .5mg therapy) on cycle is fine. and would give you less of a chance of getting gyno in the first place,

saying adex wont reduce anabolic effects and then saying estrogen is necessary for growth???? does that make any sense at all haha contridicting yourself there. Estrogen does help in gains bottom line. .5mg eod of adex doesnt work for everybody, hell, 1mg ed didnt stop me from getting gyno flares.

using a SERM on cycle IMO is retarted. you just block the receptors not the aromatization and that leaves a ton of circulating estro.

retarted? its spelt retarded lol. It makes sense to me as you keep estrogen circulating without the risk of gyno. Makes perfect sense imo, estrogen is benefiecial to skin, lipids, libido, etc. Why not just block it at the site?

 

[crazyfool405]

Running it EOD will leave enough estrogen as well as keep it undert control, i understand how it sounded contradicting, yes its needed as its an anabolic but you do want to keep it under control. you dont want to destroy it, is what i ment to say.

if 1mg didnt help you everyday maybe letro would have done u better, who knows, blocking it at its site is one thing but leaving a ton of flowing estro in your body is going to make you watery, bloated and rebvound when you stop the SERM. so An AI to keep it under control (and its MUCH stronger, and doesnt lower IGF1) there will be less of a chance of gyno.

yea i misspell ****, whatever.

 

[pistonpump]

no prob on the mispell, its just funny that it was with that word.

everyone has there own views on it. AI's rebound too and lower igf1 levels as well, aromasin is the only AI i believe that does not lower igf1. I understand if guys dont want the bloated look, but if youre bulking why does it matter? you lose the water afterwards. Maybe its just that i dont look terribly bloated, ever, but ive used both AI and SERM on cycle and if im getting gyno issues im going to use a SERM (tamox) with the occasional AI (letro e3d). If on a cut then yeah, an AI would def. be used but with bulking i use a SERM.

crazy do you get gyno like problems ever?

 

[crazyfool405]

no prob on the mispell, its just funny that it was with that word.

everyone has there own views on it. AI's rebound too and lower igf1 levels as well, aromasin is the only AI i believe that does not lower igf1. I understand if guys dont want the bloated look, but if youre bulking why does it matter? you lose the water afterwards. Maybe its just that i dont look terribly bloated, ever, but ive used both AI and SERM on cycle and if im getting gyno issues im going to use a SERM (tamox) with the occasional AI (letro e3d). If on a cut then yeah, an AI would def. be used but with bulking i use a SERM.

crazy do you get gyno like problems ever?

yea fuk huked on fonix it dont work for me lol

i dont get gyno, i always have what i need in case though. i help all my pin head friends out with their probs tho lol.

AIs i dont believe will give as much as a rebound as a serm at all, think about it for a second , heres the break down....

SERMs leave circulating estrogen levels in your body and just bind to the receptors. now when natrual androgen levels go UP there is a natural aromatization process (i know u know that) now being that it blocks the receptors and not reduce the amount of estrogen, you have an aboundance of circulating estrogen in the body. when you stop the SERM is floods the receptors.

this is a really common problem wehn people run ONLY a SERM on a NON aromatizing compound, or any compound. they get gyno a week, 2 weeks after PCT is over.

now if you run an AI, you keep estrogen low, so theres no need to worry too much about an estrogen rebound, because when your natural levels go up, estrogen and the aromatization process is blocked, keeping test to estrogen ratios more favorable.

Also when on cycle and your shut down, test levels lower, and estrogen levels remain nearly the same . so thats also another problem coming into PCT

 

[Anamolic08]

Ai/serm

Okay, so I'm confused...AI (ADEX) won't help with gyno prevention? So if I were to take ADEX .5 EOD and Tamoxifen 20mg/ED, would that be a safe bet to keep gyno in check and also make great gains...and once i start my pct cut the adex and keep the nolva maybe around 20-40 while doing hcg one week after last shot for 3 weeks 500IUs eod (mon,wed,fri)...once I finish with hcg and nolva...start clomid for 2 more weeks 300first day/1002nd-7th/508th-14th...how does that sound gang...with also running hcg periodically throughout cycle. Arrgh this is frustrating...

also, if I'm doing a cycle like I mentioned..should I be taking more hcg because of the higher dosage of exo test?

I've always done my hcg pct...it's worked I guess...thats how all of my bodybuilding friends have done it...they compete amateur pro hmmmm...confusing

anamolic:food:

 

[crazyfool405]

Okay, so I'm confused...AI (ADEX) won't help with gyno prevention? So if I were to take ADEX .5 EOD and Tamoxifen 20mg/ED, would that be a safe bet to keep gyno in check and also make great gains...and once i start my pct cut the adex and keep the nolva maybe around 20-40 while doing hcg one week after last shot for 3 weeks 500IUs eod (mon,wed,fri)...once I finish with hcg and nolva...start clomid for 2 more weeks 300first day/1002nd-7th/508th-14th...how does that sound gang...with also running hcg periodically throughout cycle. Arrgh this is frustrating...

also, if I'm doing a cycle like I mentioned..should I be taking more hcg because of the higher dosage of exo test?

I've always done my hcg pct...it's worked I guess...thats how all of my bodybuilding friends have done it...they compete amateur pro hmmmm...confusing

anamolic:food:

nothing to be confused about, putting it simple

AI= estrogen control and lowering
SERM= binding to specific receptors in the breast tissue

Gyno= caused by excess aromatizing

AI= combat by controlling estrogen, and if used EOD it wont completly destory your estrogen

SERM= will block estrogen at that site but keep flowing estrogen in the body making you appear bloated and watery.


Running Nolva and ARIMIDEX together will lower concentration of of making it less effective. one or the other, if you want to appear hard still while on cycle ADEX is the way to go.

you are really over complicating things.

if you use the hCG you want to use ADEX plain and simple. hCG aromatizes at a fast rate, and nolva yes will block the ER site BUT it wont lower estrogen giving you a favorable T/E ratio.

Follow the one i outlined it really cant be any easier, and if you opt not to run it, then fine, but make sure you use an AI while you use hCG.

and make sure u use a diff AI if u use Nolva + AI (ie Letro/Aromasin) personally i think aromasin will work better.

 

[russianstar]

adex or letro will lower estrogen in your body. Nolva will block it from breast tissue, so if you are prone to gyno running some nolva is fine, many do.

I dont know much about HCG, but it should be used on cycle. Running it on cycle makes it easier to jumpstart your HPTA after a long suppression. IIRC using HCG produces synthetic LH, when you finish your cycle you want to produce natural LH, but if there is synthetic LH you wont produce it naturally, hence, dont run it on cycle. However as I said I dont know much about HCG, other than it should be used on cycle

Spot on, and i know that many people use it at the mid point of the cycle for a few weeks, and thats when they get the best gains, google it...

 

[russianstar]

nothing to be confused about, putting it simple

AI= estrogen control and lowering
SERM= binding to specific receptors in the breast tissue

Gyno= caused by excess aromatizing

AI= combat by controlling estrogen, and if used EOD it wont completly destory your estrogen

SERM= will block estrogen at that site but keep flowing estrogen in the body making you appear bloated and watery.


Running Nolva and ARIMIDEX together will lower concentration of of making it less effective. one or the other, if you want to appear hard still while on cycle ADEX is the way to go.

you are really over complicating things.

if you use the hCG you want to use ADEX plain and simple. hCG aromatizes at a fast rate, and nolva yes will block the ER site BUT it wont lower estrogen giving you a favorable T/E ratio.

Follow the one i outlined it really cant be any easier, and if you opt not to run it, then fine, but make sure you use an AI while you use hCG.

and make sure u use a diff AI if u use Nolva + AI (ie Letro/Aromasin) personally i think aromasin will work better.

Yeah dont bother with letro and nolva together, nolva cancels the letro out, it reduces its function by up to 80 percent.

 

[crazyfool405]

Yeah dont bother with letro and nolva together, nolva cancels the letro out, it reduces its function by up to 80 percent.

same with ADEX

the only thing that works WITH nolva is AROMASIN!

i wrote letro in the original post, my bad for the confusion