TTA

[Grmlock]

How would you mix this to make either a solution or a suspension. I was thinking of mixing it w/ an EFA oil.

 

[custom]

I dunno...if it were me, I would just take it like a normal powder and take your oil seperately.

 

[italionstallion]

does anyone know how much TTA is in a cap of MP

MP=35-40 bucks for 180 caps

unfortunately, i dont know if the bulk tta is much cheaper than MP (especially after factoring it being pre capped)

 

[BryanM]

500mg total but they also have something else in there flax I believe

 

[TheCrownedOne]

I thought the MP was still 120 caps? Even if it isn't, it would still be just 90 grams of flax + TTA, no knowing how much of each is in each cap. Matt still comes out the cheaper.

 

[Qwerty]

This is all speculation, but here is my guess: Recommended dosage for MP is 6-8 caps per day(3-4 grams of lipidAce), divided between two doses (3-4 in am and pm(1.5-2 grams LipidAce in am and pm)), correct?

Matt has a recomended dosage of 2-3 grams per day, which is 1-1.5 grams in the am/pm.

So DS recommends 3-4 grams of LipidAce per day, and matt recommends 2-3 grams of TTA per day.

So a logical estimate would be that LipidAce is about 70% TTA.

120 caps MP = 60g LipidAce = 42g TTA
@ $40 per bottle, we are paying $95 for 100g of TTA.

180 caps MP = 90g LipidAce = 63g TTA @ $40 per bottle, that is about $65 for 100g of TTA.

Matt is selling 100g of TTA for $37.50.

Of course, all of this hinges on the speculation that Matt is recommending about the same TTA per day that DS is recommending. It is entirely possible that he is recommending more or less per day. But even if DS was 100% TTA (which it isn't), we would still be paying $66 per 100 grams of TTA. So even given the near best case scenario for DS, Matt's is still almost half price. I guess I'll just have to experiment and find the right daily dose for me.

I tried MP, but couldn't afford it so I only made it through one bottle at 6 per day. Wasn't that impressed, but we will see what a higher maintained dose dose for me.:twisted:


Addendum: Best case scenario for DS, for a 180 count bottle, if MP were 100% TTA (Again, I believe they have stated it isn't), that would still be about $45 for 100g of TTA, assuming a 180 count bottle costs $40, at 100% purity.

 

[Manu20]

Awesome...i'll definitely have to pick some of this up. Very good price too.

 

[Robboe]

This is all speculation, but here is my guess: Recommended dosage for MP is 6-8 caps per day(3-4 grams of lipidAce), divided between two doses (3-4 in am and pm(1.5-2 grams LipidAce in am and pm)), correct?

Matt has a recomended dosage of 2-3 grams per day, which is 1-1.5 grams in the am/pm.

So DS recommends 3-4 grams of LipidAce per day, and matt recommends 2-3 grams of TTA per day.

So a logical estimate would be that LipidAce is about 70% TTA.

120 caps MP = 60g LipidAce = 42g TTA
@ $40 per bottle, we are paying $95 for 100g of TTA.

Matt is selling 100g of TTA for $37.50.

Of course, all of this hinges on the speculation that Matt is recommending about the same TTA per day that DS is recommending. It is entirely possible that he is recommending more or less per day. But even if DS was 100% TTA (which it isn't), we would still be paying $66 per 100 grams of TTA. So even given the near best case scenario for DS, Matt's is still almost half price. I guess I'll just have to experiment and find the right daily dose for me.

I tried MP, but couldn't afford it so I only made it through one bottle at 6 per day. Wasn't that impressed, but we will see what a higher maintained dose dose for me.:twisted:

Final MP release is actually 180 caps, which are actually slightly more potent than the beta (ever so slightly though).

 

[ersatz]

CNW recommends 2-3g daily?!?! I hope you like the cramps and the rest of the unwanted sides. I'd start off with 1g and bump it .5g if necessary. 1-2g should be more than ideal and prevent unwanted sides.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Final MP release is actually 180 caps, which are actually slightly more potent than the beta (ever so slightly though).

If you guys would listen to my suggestions from Dr.D you'd have more ideas to enhance MP than you'd know what to do with

 

[italionstallion]

If you guys would listen to my suggestions from Dr.D you'd have more ideas to enhance MP than you'd know what to do with

i just checked out a list of your posts and couldnt find anything. if you have a link or just want to repost that would be great.

thanks

 

[Manu20]

i just checked out a list of your posts and couldnt find anything. if you have a link or just want to repost that would be great.

thanks

I would also like to see this.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

We've been keeping it on the DL, which makes me wonder why I posted it here in the open :think:

 

[MaynardMeek]

you opened the can.. NOW SPILL THE BEEEEEANS

 

[Qwerty]

Final MP release is actually 180 caps, which are actually slightly more potent than the beta (ever so slightly though).

OK, fixed. Its tough to speculate on this. The only way we could really estimate the proper dosage would be to experiment with MP and CNW's TTA, and try to get a roughly equivalent dosage. Like I said, it's all speculation based on recommended dosages. For the hell of it, I also listed a price comparison assuming MP was 100% TTA.

 

[custom]

Nice to see someone doing the math on bulk powders.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

I just want to throw this out there. Matt's TTA has absolutely no flavor, and the texture is fluffy, similar to BCAAs.

 

[MaynardMeek]

yes.. i am looking at it right now.. in my hands... in the bag.. very fluffy.. NOW. TELL US YOUR SECRETS:duel:

 

[IheartAvantLabs]

Honestly, I just want to know which is cheaper.

And Matt, what are you doing selling HaloDrol?

I know that it's not your place to judge what the people put in their mouthes, but how long do you think HaloDrol will stay legal?

I'm getting bad vibes from this stuff.

 

[unitas27]

Mat, has this TTA been tested for purity? It looks sooo wierd. Its like fluffy shiny light, and scaly.

 

[custom]

I will get the test report asap.

 

[MaynardMeek]

it does look really pretty in the moon light ;-)

i sifted thru a MP cap and found some of the same in there.. just not much however... interested to see the report as well...but i do have to say, after 1g i already notice a tight feeling in my shoulders just as MP did.. so.. yeah take that for what you will

 

[jmh80]

Spill it TCO. Now!

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Wow.
The ideas I'm submitting to them are in no way available to the general populace. Even if I told everyone, no one would be able to do it because the materials required are only available to businesses.
The only idea I have that everyone can try is to take a bunch of calcium for these cramps. I don't know why no one has suggested that.

 

[Enigma76]

TCO, have you any idea as to the cause of the cramping?

I was doing some research and am trying to find the common link between X and Y...I've seen studies showing TTA to effect various inflammatory/anti-inflammatory cytokines (for instance, increasing IL10 while decreasing IL2, increasing TNFa cytokine response, generally resulting in a more anti-inflammatory environment). And in doing research, I have found that cytokines (the interleukins) regulate calcium, sodium and potassium ion channels in various types of cells in various ways.

I'm betting that TTA exerts these cramps through cytokine changes, which in turn change the ion channels somehow (allowing more transport, reducing the amount of inter/intracellular ions, etc).



Also, TTA shows a very anti-proliferative effect with cells. Do you think people might want to tone down their weight training? Would the anti-proliferative effect carry over to the building of muscle?


Some questions to ponder.


EDIT: Wanted to add this tidbit. Upon further reading, it seems that primarily the effects of TTA are caused by mitochondiral changes in hepatocytes (liver cells), and a couple papers put forth that the liver drains the blood plasma of free fatty acids with TTA (thus this is how TTA works, through the liver). Wouldnt the addition of something like forskolin, which liberates fatty acids from adipocytes into the blood, be a very beneficial addition to TTA? I know that at least in me, forskolin increases my blood triglyceride concentration at least 2 fold (from previous blood tests).

It just seems to me that the optimal way to use TTA would be to A) keep the liver in tip top shape, using liberal doses of antioxidants (NAC, ALA, milk thistle, vit C), B) keep well hydrated and replenish the various ions needed (Na, K, Cl, Mg, and especially Ca) and C) ensure that the blood has a steady supply of free fatty acids for the liver to metabolize.

 

[custom]

Very Interesting! It wuld be great if someone could test these ideas out, ecpsecially the forskolin...I'm thinking that could make a big difference the way you describe it.

 

[custom]

The standardized test is still being developed. Until then all I have is the COA.

 

[Enigma76]

Very Interesting! It wuld be great if someone could test these ideas out, ecpsecially the forskolin...I'm thinking that could make a big difference the way you describe it.

I'd love to see it too.

I think it would be tough to test the ideas, but I'll show my research.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15733731&query_hl=2
Altogether, TTA-mediated clearance of blood triglycerides may result from a lowered level of apo C-III, with a subsequently induction of hepatic lipoprotein lipase activity and (re)uptake of fatty acids from very low density lipoprotein (VLDL). This is associated with an increased hepatic capacity for fatty acid oxidation, causing drainage of fatty acids from the blood stream. This can ultimately be linked to hypolipidemia, anti-adiposity, and improved insulin sensitivity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11463171&query_hl=2
Administration of the fatty acid analogue tetradecylthioacetic acid (TTA) to rodents up-regulates peroxisomal and mitochondrial lipid-metabolizing enzymes and induces a proliferation of these organelles in hepatocytes.



http://www.synergymuscle.com/catalog/camphibolic.htm
And from the cAMPHIBOLIC writeup by Nandi (RIP).

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"So far to summarize, we see that forskolin has the ability to activate Hormone Sensitive Lipase and release free fatty acids that can be used by the body for fuel. This lipolytic effect is obviously advantageous for a person seeking to lose fat. However, unless the fat mobilized by forskolin is actually burned for fuel, it will simply be redeposited as fat. "




[/FONT]

 

[TheCrownedOne]

The addition of forskolin sounds like a good idea. If any were so inclined, Albuterol would be intriguing as well.
The majority eek by on the impoverished mineral levels they live in, so I see nothing but benefits from upping the minerals.

 

[THE GREATEST]

Here's a little study supporting your theory, sounds like anything that liberates fatty acids from adipocytes into the blood would be a great combo


Tetradecylthioacetic acid (TTA) is a non-ß-oxidizable fatty acid analog, which potently regulates lipid homeostasis. Here we evaluate the ability of TTA to prevent diet-induced and genetically determined adiposity and insulin resistance. In Wistar rats fed a high fat diet, TTA administration completely prevented diet-induced insulin resistance and adiposity. In genetically obese Zucker (fa/fa) rats TTA treatment reduced the epididymal adipose tissue mass and improved insulin sensitivity. All three rodent peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor (PPAR) subtypes were activated by TTA in the ranking order PPAR

> PPAR

> PPAR

. Expression of PPAR

target genes in adipose tissue was unaffected by TTA treatment, whereas the hepatic expression of PPAR

-responsive genes encoding enzymes involved in fatty acid uptake, transport, and oxidation was induced. This was accompanied by increased hepatic mitochondrial ß-oxidation and a decreased fatty acid/ketone body ratio in plasma. These findings indicate that PPAR

-dependent mechanisms play a pivotal role, but additionally, the involvement of PPAR

-independent pathways is conceivable. Taken together, our results suggest that a TTA-induced increase in hepatic fatty acid oxidation and ketogenesis drains fatty acids from blood and extrahepatic tissues and that this contributes significantly to the beneficial effects of TTA on fat mass accumulation and peripheral insulin sensitivity.—Madsen, L., M. Guerre-Millo, E. N. Flindt, K. Berge, K. J. Tronstad, E. Bergene, E. Sebokova, A. C. Rustan, J. Jensen, S. Mandrup, K. Kristiansen, I. Klimes, B. Staels, and R. K. Berge. Tetradecylthioacetic acid prevents high fat diet induced adiposity and insulin resistance. J. Lipid Res. 2002. 43: 742–750.

 

[THE GREATEST]

from studies, it also seems that ALCAR would be synergystic as well as ephedrine......also one who is on a ketogenic diet would probably see some really dramatic results taking tta

 

[Enigma76]

from studies, it also seems that ALCAR would be synergystic as well as ephedrine......also one who is on a ketogenic diet would probably see some really dramatic results taking tta

I'm really busy as of now...could you elaborate on the ALCAR/ephedrine for me? I'm assuming the ephedrine due to the release of fatty acids due to increases in norepinephrine (I think this is right)? This would be along the same thinking as using forskolin to liberate adipocyte stored fatty acids, no?

I was also thinking that antioxidents might be vital for TTA use. Normally we think of using liver supps to combat liver damage, but since TTA increases the overall load of the liver (increasing fatty acid oxidation) I feel it would be best to keep the liver in tip top shape; ALA/NAC etc reduce or reverse oxidation damage to mitochondria I believe, and mitochondria are the exact things we want to keep running well, no?

Dont get me wrong, TTA hasnt been shown to cause liver damage (elevation of enzymes) as far as I've seen, but I'm speaking from a purely efficiency standpoint; if you can run the proverbial machine at 98% instead of 92%, why not do it?


EDIT actually upon further reading, it seems TTA acts as an antioxidant itself...but I think I'm still going to use liberal doses of ALA/NAC/milk thistle regardless.

 

[THE GREATEST]

I take that back on the ALCAR, I misread something in a study on fat mobilization....as far as the ephedrine,yes, it is due to the release of fatty acids, most of which will be redeposited if not burned or shuttled out somehow

 

[THE GREATEST]

also, I think antioxidants should be a staple regardless, but I see your point

 

[Enigma76]

also, I think antioxidants should be a staple regardless, but I see your point

I was making the assessment purely because it seems that most (myself included) dont use antioxidents year-round; most use them only when using methyls or for recovery from something that is potentially hepatotoxic.

Someone who doesnt use them regularly might benefit from them with TTA.

I think that mega-dosing forskolin might have a really good synergistic effect with TTA here, especially at night.

I feel that a really good combo of products to be sold as a "stack" *cough cough* would be TTA/forskolin/electrolyte replacement.

 

[italionstallion]

any suggestions on as to where to buy forskholin? (other than the small amount in thermos)

 

[DAdams91982]

any suggestions on as to where to buy forskholin? (other than the small amount in thermos)

I believe I remember seeing it B-A-C.

Adams

 

[MaynardMeek]

i have yet to see it actually put in a post.. would TTA be better taken WITH EPA/DHA fish oils much like sesamin products

 

[TheCrownedOne]

You can get a good deal of hearbs at a great price from Kevin at Ancient Way: https://www.ancientway.com/catalog/index.php?osCsid=7ad65d94f3a11eb58efc7e7cbd0b81fd

If you're looking for forskolin there, search for coleus forskohlii.

 

[Enigma76]

any suggestions on as to where to buy forskholin? (other than the small amount in thermos)

I think also vitamen shoppe's sell a specific brand name "Forslean", its the highest patented extract of forskolin from coleus...all forskolin products should use the forslean extract for optimal amounts of forskolin.

 

[Enigma76]

i have yet to see it actually put in a post.. would TTA be better taken WITH EPA/DHA fish oils much like sesamin products

Fish oils really shoudl always be taken, not only for their PPARa activation but also their myriad other health benefits.

TTA is a very potent activator of PPARa, but also an activator of delta and gamma (to a much lesser extent). EPA/DHA probably wouldnt cause any appreciable result over TTA.

Something else I found while researching...http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15825830&query_hl=1
alpha-methylated fatty acids activate PPARa better than non-alpha-methylated. That goes for EPA/DHA/TTA/palmitic acid/CLA, etc etc.

Maybe we should look into an alpha-methylated version of TTA?


Also, I thought this was an interesting study. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11071041&query_hl=1
Showing that TTA actually increases the size of mitochondria (energy producing organelles) in both Type I and II muscle fibers.

 

[MaynardMeek]

:clap2: hey really good post .. keep it up

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Fish oils really shoudl always be taken, not only for their PPARa activation but also their myriad other health benefits.

TTA is a very potent activator of PPARa, but also an activator of delta and gamma (to a much lesser extent). EPA/DHA probably wouldnt cause any appreciable result over TTA.

Something else I found while researching...http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15825830&query_hl=1
alpha-methylated fatty acids activate PPARa better than non-alpha-methylated. That goes for EPA/DHA/TTA/palmitic acid/CLA, etc etc.

Maybe we should look into an alpha-methylated version of TTA?


Also, I thought this was an interesting study. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11071041&query_hl=1
Showing that TTA actually increases the size of mitochondria (energy producing organelles) in both Type I and II muscle fibers.

Being done as we speak

 

[THE GREATEST]

just curious, what dose do you guys take of EPA/DHA...I take 3g/day total, but I'm not sure if I should bump this up or down with the TTA?

 

[CDB]

just curious, what dose do you guys take of EPA/DHA...I take 3g/day total, but I'm not sure if I should bump this up or down with the TTA?

I don't think it will make a difference one way or the other. The two compliment each other, but TTA is a much more potent activator.

I would guess it's kind of like adding cinnamon to Glucophase. Doesn't really do anything in the end because the main ingredient of the product is much more effective and acts along the same pathway. Of course in this Case the EPA and DHA have their own health benefits, so I guess the best advice is to take both in the recommended doses.

 

[Enigma76]

Being done as we speak

I figured that alpha-methyl TTA might have been one of the things you were discussing with Dr. D that you coudlnt say...figured the people asking about it would want to know.

Also was wondering if you might have looked into TSA (a selenium ion in place of the sulfur)...theres only one study done on it at the moment however it seems to be more potent than TTA.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Yeah I saw that study. I don't know what its availability is, though.

 

[Qwerty]

Can anyone confirm that appropriate dosing for this is .5 - 1g per day? Right now I am taking 1/4 tsp in the morning and at night. I can't find my damn scale, but Matt said in another post that he consistantly measure 1/4 tsp to be 550mg.

 

[custom]

I think I might try to double that....I did not start experiencing sides under 2 grams daily. I dont know if you can get the benfits without the sides, but I tend to overcompensate anyway.

 

[MaynardMeek]

i am currently taking 1/4tsp 5 times a day.. not feeling much of anything HOWEVER my carb intake has been high.. much like while on melting point, when i lowered my carbs then the sides really hit