Estane cycle setup

[TheBreeze]

I am planning on running a 4 week CEL Estane cycle here soon and I was hoping you guys could help me finalize everything.

Ive been mega dosing USPLabs Prime for the past 4 weeks and am getting stronger but I am not feeling the constant pumps everyone was talking about.

Never the less, I'm ready for another cycle. I ran H-drol last Feb for 29 days and had amazing results with OTC PCT and got stronger and more ripped than ever before.

So my setup at this point is looking like

Hawthorne Berry 900mg/two weeks prior to beginning of cycle

-Cycle-
Estane 30/30/30/40
Cycle Assist 8/8/8/8

-PCT- (starting day after last Estane dose)
PCT Assist 6/6/6/6
AX Perfect Cycle Liver Support 4/4/4/4
Inhibit-E 3/3/2/1
AX LeanFX 0/0/3/2


I also have CEL formestane and a bottle of Activate Xtreme on hand. Since PCT assist is a natty test booster should I still incorporate another test booster into PCT.

I like the idea of running the formestane 100/week on cycle then 100/50 the first two weeks of PCT. But would I run the formestane the entire on cycle time?

Also, is the Perfect cycle liver support a necessity during PCT or will PCT assist be enough?

Sorry for the long post. Just trying to get all my thoughts written down.

All input is greatly appreciated. Thank You!!!

 

[Young Gotti]

i'd lower the inhibit-e to 3/2/2/1 or some ppl say 2/2/1/1, ATD can be tricky with rebound, just watch yourself also, epistane is a dry compound and inhibit e will dry you out some, so watch your joints

 

[Bigwill21]

i'd lower the inhibit-e to 3/2/2/1 or some ppl say 2/2/1/1, ATD can be tricky with rebound, just watch yourself also, epistane is a dry compound and inhibit e will dry you out some, so watch your joints

X2!

I was gonna say the exact same thing... 2/2/1/1 works for me, even taking 1 EOD on the last week.

Estane is a steroidal AI so really you are just using ATD to save yourself from the Estane rebound.

I would toss the AX Liver support and use Liver Assist XT by SNS its a little cheaper and you get more servings plus more support from the Tumeric and Artichoke. If not, Liver Support still is a good choice if you already have it. PCT assist is for estrogen control and T boosting not liver support, so yes a liver support is necessary after any methyl cycle.

Also i would toss the Lean FX and go with either Suppress C or Reduce Xt unless you already have it. I wouldnt trust proprietary blends especially since the most active ingredient is at the very bottom of the list . IMO I would use cortisol control throughout PCT to be safe than sorry, and I dont think there is any reason to taper off of it either. Less cortisol = keeping gains.

I wouldnt use Form during this cycle since it is an AI and Estane is an AI and already suppressive of estrogen. Form is usually ran during "wet" cycles(PP, M14ADD, M1A) to control estrogen sides or PCT to conrol rebound estrogen. Similar to ATD but more powerfull.

As far as another T booster it wouldnt hurt, but not necessary IMO. Activate EX is too similar to PCT Assist with alot of the same ingredients so I would go with something like Blue-up(Trib, Longjack, Avena Sativa $19) that way you have more pathways to getting your T back to normal.

If your joints start aching get some Cissus, it works wonders, I use Cissus by Primaforce, 100g $20 plus its the only 40% Ketosterone out there. Plus it kicks in about a week compared to 2-3 months like Glucosamine/Chondroitin.

 

[gymaddict20]

When I run Epi, 40mg is the sweet spot. Imo I would run it at 30/40/40/40. I would also get yourself a SERM to have on hand and I refuse to run anything without one. I have experienced shut down due to Epi in the past.

BTW, what is your age ans stats?

 

[Bigwill21]

When I run Epi, 40mg is the sweet spot. Imo I would run it at 30/40/40/40. I would also get yourself a SERM to have on hand and I refuse to run anything without one. I have experienced shut down due to Epi in the past.

BTW, what is your age ans stats?

Why i dont use Nolva/Clomid:


40mg is a good spot for me too, but he might only have one bottle, which I would run 20/30/40/40

 

[gymaddict20]

If you are able to recover without one great but like I said I wont run anything without one. If he does only have one bottle 20/20/30/40 would be the way to go.

 

[Bigwill21]

If you are able to recover without one great but like I said I wont run anything without one. If he does only have one bottle 20/20/30/40 would be the way to go.

But then you would have pills left over , and with estane out of existence for the most part, you would be wasting 13 pills.

I'm not bashing you on SERM use , just trying my best to educate and make people aware of what could happen and possible sides. The steroids are just as harmful if used wrong. IMO the supplement world has caught up to the RX world as far as PCT goes.

 

[TheBreeze]

Thanks guys.
So it sounds like trimming the Inhibit-E to 2/2/1/1 with a possible EOD for the last week would be sufficient.

Also, thanks to BigWill for pointing out the AI properties of Estane. You make a great point.

As far as supplements go, everything I listed, I have right next to me as I'm typing this post. Also I have 2 unopened bottles of Estane. However, I am not against ordering 1 or 2 more things just to be safe.

As for the question concerning a SERM, I would LOVE to get by without one, however the more I read the more I feel I should have one just to be safe. I am pretty sure I could score some tamox citrate but I'd be a little unsure of how pure it is and how to dose it.
Ive seen lots of post saying 20/20/10/10 is good for nolva. Am I correct here?

 

[TheBreeze]

Oh yeah,
age-25
weight-~220lbs
height-6'1"
experience-lifting on/off for 10+ yrs. Seriously for about 3 yrs.

 

[gymaddict20]

Thanks guys.
So it sounds like trimming the Inhibit-E to 2/2/1/1 with a possible EOD for the last week would be sufficient.

Also, thanks to BigWill for pointing out the AI properties of Estane. You make a great point.

As far as supplements go, everything I listed, I have right next to me as I'm typing this post. Also I have 2 unopened bottles of Estane. However, I am not against ordering 1 or 2 more things just to be safe.

As for the question concerning a SERM, I would LOVE to get by without one, however the more I read the more I feel I should have one just to be safe. I am pretty sure I could score some tamox citrate but I'd be a little unsure of how pure it is and how to dose it.
Ive seen lots of post saying 20/20/10/10 is good for nolva. Am I correct here?

Thats correct. Pick one up and shoot me a pm once you have it. I will tell you how to dose it based on the mg/ml

 

[TheBreeze]

Thats correct. Pick one up and shoot me a pm once you have it. I will tell you how to dose it based on the mg/ml

Right on, Thanks.

Do you think Nolva would be okay for an epi cycle. Most of the logs Ive seen have been using Clomid, if any SERM.

Also, if I went the SERM route, would there be anything included in the PCT stated above that would NOT be needed. I only ask cause I cant stand taking mass quantities of pills for that long of a time. They tend to feel stuck in my throat a lot.

 

[TheBreeze]

Gymaddict, I just read your Mdrol Epi bridge log and I must say you did a tremendous job keeping up with it. Not to mention a 400lbs bench at 165lbs is friggin insane!!!

I will surely hit you up about the nolva conversions if my source turns out reliable.(Im pretty sure it will, cause I know guys personally who've ordered from here.)

Thanks man. Keep up the hard work. Youre a beast!

 

[TheBreeze]

anyone else care to shine some light???


Also, after reading gymaddicts log I picked up a small bottle of DHEA which will hopefully help a bit with on cycle lethargy and irritability. Seeing as I'm a pretty edgy guy already I don't wanna take any chances of going into a rage, especially after speaking with an HR big dog recently.(haha)
From what Ive read so far, everyone seems to get the "increased sense of well being" on Epi. Ive seen very few negative reports other than shut down. I dont however see this being an enormous problem as I only plan to run a 4 week cycle.

It's now looking something like this:

Estane 20/30/40/40
Cycle assist 8/8/8/8

PCT assist 6/6/6/6
AX Perfect cycle liver support 4/4/4/4
Inhibit-E 2/2/1/1EOD
Natty T booster(most likely stim free Blue-up)
I also have liquid Nolva on its way this week. I really need your guys help with dosing this if I have to!


Over all does everything look and sound right to you guys??? I greatly respect and appreciate everyone assistance in planning this cycle

 

[mw1]

anyone else care to shine some light???


Also, after reading gymaddicts log I picked up a small bottle of DHEA which will hopefully help a bit with on cycle lethargy and irritability. Seeing as I'm a pretty edgy guy already I don't wanna take any chances of going into a rage, especially after speaking with an HR big dog recently.(haha)
From what Ive read so far, everyone seems to get the "increased sense of well being" on Epi. Ive seen very few negative reports other than shut down. I dont however see this being an enormous problem as I only plan to run a 4 week cycle.

It's now looking something like this:

Estane 20/30/40/40
Cycle assist 8/8/8/8

PCT assist 6/6/6/6
AX Perfect cycle liver support 4/4/4/4
Inhibit-E 2/2/1/1EOD
Natty T booster(most likely stim free Blue-up)
I also have liquid Nolva on its way this week. I really need your guys help with dosing this if I have to!


Over all does everything look and sound right to you guys??? I greatly respect and appreciate everyone assistance in planning this cycle

The PCT Assist is a natty test booster (with some AI characteristics) , so you wil not need another. Your Inhibit E dosing is is fine but i prefer SNS Liver Assist to AX Perfect cycle.

 

[qwerty33]

Why i dont use Nolva/Clomid:



40mg is a good spot for me too, but he might only have one bottle, which I would run 20/30/40/40

thats y you should use low dose torem

 

[TheBreeze]

The PCT Assist is a natty test booster (with some AI characteristics) , so you wil not need another. Your Inhibit E dosing is is fine but i prefer SNS Liver Assist to AX Perfect cycle.

Thank You mw1. That answer is actually great to hear. The less pills I have to choke down each day, the better.
NP is out of stock of Liver Assist but I am gonna check around on the web to see if anyone else has it for a reasonable price.
It is always a personal relief to have input from a company rep when planning something like this.
Thanks again mw1.

thats y you should use low dose torem

I would have liked to had torem but tamox is all I could get ahold of easily.

 

[TheBreeze]

After a little more searching and reading it seems to me a dose of 20/20/10/10 should be enough for my Nolva in PCT.

I want to start preloading by next week if possible. Is there anything else besides Hawthorne Berry and maybe some Milk Thistle I should load up on??

 

[Bigwill21]

thats y you should use low dose torem

I've never had a problem with OTC, so I will just stick with what works for me. Appreciate it though. I'll see if I can dig up some dirt on torem too

 

[TheBreeze]

Started preloading HB and milk thistle today along with the usual multi-vitamin and newly added fish oils.

I cant wait to get that "ON" feeling again. Its been over a year for me.

 

[Bigwill21]

Started preloading HB and milk thistle today along with the usual multi-vitamin and newly added fish oils.

I cant wait to get that "ON" feeling again. Its been over a year for me.

I dont know if it was placebo effect, but E always made me feel in a great mood, not really "alpha", but just in a really positive mood for the first couple of weeks, but usually lethargy does kick in the 4th week for me.

Good luck!

 

[gymaddict20]

Good to see you got everything planned out properly. Good luck to you bro. Rip it up and hit it hard!!!

 

[TheBreeze]

I dont know if it was placebo effect, but E always made me feel in a great mood, not really "alpha", but just in a really positive mood for the first couple of weeks, but usually lethargy does kick in the 4th week for me.

Good luck!

Yeah, maybe youre right. H-drol didnt and Epi probably wont give me an insane alpha male mentality. But honestly, I really dont need people thinking I think any more of myself than they do now. Because theyre already totally wrong about whats inside my head.
As far as the general feeling of "good" that is more of what Im after at this point and time. Honestly, I be thrilled if I could do nothing more than have 4 straight weeks of hard, sweaty workouts in which I threw around the amount of weight a guy my size should be doing.

Good to see you got everything planned out properly. Good luck to you bro. Rip it up and hit it hard!!!

Thanks. So you think everything looks correct??
I'm still waiting on a few packages from FedEx this week then I should have more than enough supps on hand for this cycle.

 

[gymaddict20]

everything looks good from what i can see. tear it up bro.

 

[TheBreeze]

Oh yeah, so I totally forgot to write my corrected cycle down.
It is as follows:

Pre-load
Hawthorne Berry~1100-1600mg/day
Milk Thistle 600mg/day
Omega-3 Fish Oil 2000-3000mg/day (Ive heard so much about EFA's I guess I'll try them)

Cycle
CEL Estane 30/30/40/40 - possibly 30/40/40/40 depending on results
CEL Cycle Assist 8/8/8/8

PCT
CEL PCT Assist 6/6/6/6
SNS Liver Assist 6/6/6/6
SNS Inhibit-E 2/2/1/1EOD
AX Lean FX 0/3/3/2 - b/c I only have enough to run 22 2/3 days at 3/day
**extra stuff**
Stim-Free Blue-Up at 3/day depending on mood, lethargy levels, libido, etc...
Also should have Nolva on hand before beginning actual cycle at if needed for PCT at 20/20/10/10

 

[gymaddict20]

Run it at 30/40/40/40 if you have enough of it. 40 is the sweet spot from what i have run i the past. You wont be disappointed!

 

[TheBreeze]

Run it at 30/40/40/40 if you have enough of it. 40 is the sweet spot from what i have run i the past. You wont be disappointed!

Yeah, that's what I'm really hoping I will be able to do. This is only my 2nd PH cycle so I am still a bit unsure of how my body will react to this stuff.
None the less, I am really psyched about this cycle. If all 4 weeks ON are as good of workouts as today's was, I will be f-ing stacked once its done.

I will do my best to keep you posted.
I'm also gonna try to do some before and after pics for my own comparison.

 

[Bigwill21]

Oh yeah, so I totally forgot to write my corrected cycle down.
It is as follows:

Pre-load
Hawthorne Berry~1100-1600mg/day
Milk Thistle 600mg/day
Omega-3 Fish Oil 2000-3000mg/day (Ive heard so much about EFA's I guess I'll try them)

Cycle
CEL Estane 30/30/40/40 - possibly 30/40/40/40 depending on results
CEL Cycle Assist 8/8/8/8

PCT
CEL PCT Assist 6/6/6/6
SNS Liver Assist 6/6/6/6
SNS Inhibit-E 2/2/1/1EOD
AX Lean FX 0/3/3/2 - b/c I only have enough to run 22 2/3 days at 3/day
**extra stuff**
Stim-Free Blue-Up at 3/day depending on mood, lethargy levels, libido, etc...
Also should have Nolva on hand before beginning actual cycle at if needed for PCT at 20/20/10/10

Looks good!

x2 on the 30/40/40/40, you can always back down to 30 if sides come on.

I always dose my Omega 3's at 6g min./day especially with dry compounds. Plus you need those fats to help with absorption, hormones are fat-soluble. Good idea to take them at the same time.

 

[TheBreeze]

Looks good!

x2 on the 30/40/40/40, you can always back down to 30 if sides come on.

I always dose my Omega 3's at 6g min./day especially with dry compounds. Plus you need those fats to help with absorption, hormones are fat-soluble. Good idea to take them at the same time.

Youre right about coming down from 40 to 30 if needed. But if it goes as well as Ive read other guys are doing I think 40/day will be golden.

Good call about the Omega 3's. I was kinda iffy to run them too high cause I heard somewhere a long time ago too much fish oil can put on lbs of fat real easy. Dont know if that is true of not.
But for the note on absorption, Thank You. I recall reading 3-AD was fat-soluble but was under the impression the solubility was dependent on the PH compound.

 

[trackstud100m]

Youre right about coming down from 40 to 30 if needed. But if it goes as well as Ive read other guys are doing I think 40/day will be golden.

Good call about the Omega 3's. I was kinda iffy to run them too high cause I heard somewhere a long time ago too much fish oil can put on lbs of fat real easy. Dont know if that is true of not.
But for the note on absorption, Thank You. I recall reading 3-AD was fat-soluble but was under the impression the solubility was dependent on the PH compound.

40 is too much stick with 30mg.

 

[TheBreeze]

40 is too much stick with 30mg.

Thanks for the input. Seeing as I'll be running both doses I will see how I feel with each. I'm kinda hoping to run it at 40 as long as I can just so I dont have as many extra capsules left over after the cycle. Cause who knows if this new ban will ever be lifted. I sure hope someone can figure something out cause I see nothing wrong with a little extra help in the gym every now and then.

Prohormones probably have injured less people in their entire existence than cigarettes kill in one day.
But I dont want to hijack my own thread. This is another thread on another forum.

 

[gymaddict20]

40mg is the sweet spot for me. That is where the gains were great and the sides were minimal.

 

[mw1]

40 mgs seems to work best for most

 

[OnTheRoadTo]

30 and 40mg of epi were awesome for me.

Don't pay attention to that Primordial article, it is designed to get you to buy their product. If you actually look at the articles in their bibliography you'll be much, much less worried.

 

[TheBreeze]

30 and 40mg of epi were awesome for me.

40 mgs seems to work best for most

40mg is the sweet spot for me. That is where the gains were great and the sides were minimal.

Yeah, thats pretty much what Im gearing up to run.
Only problem Im facing right now is a really sore left clavicle from a B.S. one arm rowing injury which I honestly thought would have cleared up in a day or two. But its been about 4 months and today it really upset me when I couldnt even do 1 rep w/ 135 on flat bench without a terrible pain and popping in my shoulder.
So who knows how this cycle is gonna go. Every single pressing movement seems to bother it. I see my trainer tomorrow and he's supposed to be really go with this kind of thing. I am also in the process of making a chiropractor appt cause this may all be stemming from a kink thats been in the left of my posterior neck for years.

I DONT KNOW???

All I want is just to move some heavy weight like the big boys and get beef. A good workout is honestly one of only maybe 2 or 3 things that actually make me happy. So if anyone has any input on how to combat this injury or has had one like it before please post away.
I cannot have working out taken away from me!!!

 

[jamez45]

I had that same pain a few years ago..the cause was my front delt was over developed compared to my rear and side delts..It always hurt when i benched,push-ups ect.
I don't know if thats your problem but that what went on with me..

 

[OnTheRoadTo]

Try this:

High dosed (10 pills a day) Fish oil
Active release of fascia w/ a tennis ball
Menthol rub
Cissus (I like the USPLabs bulk extract @ nutraplanet
Dante's "shoulder cure" - http://www.powerliftinguk.com/showthread.php?21672-Shoulder-inpingement-bicep-tendonitis-cure-Taken-from-Dante-Trudel


This along with some strengthening with bands is just about as good as you can do without surgery. Passed along from my partner w/ a partially torn rotator cuff.

 

[TheBreeze]

I had that same pain a few years ago..the cause was my front delt was over developed compared to my rear and side delts..It always hurt when i benched,push-ups ect.
I don't know if thats your problem but that what went on with me..

Thanks. Thats one thing I had thought of since my left side is visibly larger than my right. Plus I know I usually walk with my head down and have pretty crappy posture.
I did some standing rows (bringing hands in to chest at shoulders width apart) today and squeezed my back real tight and that seemed to pull my shoulders back a bit from the pump. I liked them so Im really gonna try to work them in 2x week.

Try this:

High dosed (10 pills a day) Fish oil
Active release of fascia w/ a tennis ball
Menthol rub
Cissus (I like the USPLabs bulk extract @ nutraplanet
Dante's "shoulder cure" - http://www.powerliftinguk.com/showthread.php?21672-Shoulder-inpingement-bicep-tendonitis-cure-Taken-from-Dante-Trudel


This along with some strengthening with bands is just about as good as you can do without surgery. Passed along from my partner w/ a partially torn rotator cuff.

I appreciate your input but Im going with the thought its mostly a bone problem at this point due to two reasons. Reason one, the pain doesnt feel like any pain Ive ever felt in/from a muscle. Reason two, I just got back from my first chiropractor appointment and am already feeling a bit of relief. It didnt hurt when I put my seatbelt on so I couldnt help coming come and trying a few pushups. The end result, the pressing movements still hurt but range of motion is already improved. I see him again tomorrow.

I will let you guys know how it goes. At this point I have very high expectations for my chiropractor. If he comes thru, he'll have a client for life. But I am still planning on starting the Epi on Monday, possibly even Sunday morning just cause I dont work this weekend.

 

[OnTheRoadTo]

Glad you're seeing progress! Injuries suck.

 

[SOUTHCAR27]

Are you going to be logging your cycle? If so I am in.

 

[TheBreeze]

Glad you're seeing progress! Injuries suck.

Thanks. Im really trying to have a positive attitude about it. Being Im a major pessimist this can be a bit difficult at times.

Are you going to be logging your cycle? If so I am in.

Im probably not gonna log it the way everyone else does just cause Im not usually on the computer this much. But I will try my best to keep everyone posted with sides and progress as much as I can.
So thanks for the support either way!

 

[gymaddict20]

You should defn try to log it as best you can. If you run into problems we can help you due to us seeing what your training / in jesting. If you need anything just shoot me a pm. Good luck bro and rip that shat it!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheBreeze]

You should defn try to log it as best you can. If you run into problems we can help you due to us seeing what your training / in jesting. If you need anything just shoot me a pm. Good luck bro and rip that shat it!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I guess youre right. You bring a valid point as well about the help.

I suppose I will do my best to post at least every other day. I know from past supps Ive used the first few workouts are always posted but after a few days things get busy and I dont have time to log on. I usually stay busy until I go to work. But as long as I keep getting the restful sleep Ive been getting the past few days, I should hopefully be able to post a little something each night after work. So I will try!!!

P.S. I saw my chiropractor again today and my clavicle is feeling a bit better still. My ROM is much better however he put too much pressure on me today and kinda wrenched my left upper back a bit. I said something to him but I dont think its a big deal. Besides that was a 1:45 and it feels looser already.
I see him one more time tomorrow. Im gonna ask him to realign my clavicle if thats possible. IDK? But thats the only thing that still hurts.

I'll let everyone know how my workout goes tomorrow b/c Im hitting the gym after my appointment with the chiropractor.
Im really trying to think positive!

 

[TheBreeze]

Quick update on my shoulder...
Went to the chiropractor one more time this morning and had him do a few extra adjustments and I felt great when I left there. Needless to say I headed straight for the gym.
Once at the gym, after warming on the arc trainer I headed to the flat bench to see if this Dr was really worth the $90 I gave him for 3 visits.
First set of 135 felt really good. So, I tried 185, and it felt even better. I felt strong for not flat benching for 2 months.
Then Im ready for my working sets. I throw on 205 and lift the bar with a thumb-under grip, like always, and as soon as I attempt to adjust the weight in my hands the bar slips out of my hands and falls on my sternum from arms length.
Embarrassed does not describe how I felt. At least I was able to press it off my chest with ease.
And I must give glory to God in heaven for letting the bar land on my chest, not my neck, which could have easily been fatal IMO.

Long story short, my chest hurts like crazy now but only with squeezing and dip-like movements. There's no bruise yet, but its only been 14 hrs. So honestly I dont know if starting my Estane cycle Monday would be a good idea. Any opinions???

 

[SOUTHCAR27]

I would hold off and make sure you are ok. Plus you might want to get in the gym for about a month and build your strength and form back up since you haven't been able to work out much becasue of the injury. Good Luck

 

[manofmany]

I would give it a few days and see how it feels. If you have any issues breathing or with excessive bruising I would have it checked out before starting anything.

Next time wrap you're thumbs around the bar

 

[TheBreeze]

Next time wrap you're thumbs around the bar

You dont have to tell me twice anymore.

So far theres no bruising at all but it still hurts pretty bad. I thought about it last night a lot and I figure I should give it at least a week. Depending how I feel next monday I can always keep preloading my support supplements. I dont see that hurting anything.

Thanks for the concern.

 

[TheBreeze]

In case anyone was wondering, (Im sure no one really gives a crap) my chest hurts worse today than when I first dropped the weight on it. Still no sign of a bruise just lots of pain. We took an xray at work and nothing is fractured, so that is a positive at least.
I talked to a Dr buddy today at work and he said "ice and NSAID's" are the way to make me feel better. So I figured I will try taking my ibproufen a little more regularly tomorrow just to see how I feel.

Either way, this is a bogus injury which never should have happened to someone with 10+ years experience in the weight room. I will never live this down in my own mind. But please believe I will be paying much closer attention to the position of my thumbs from now on when I bench press.