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[chedapalooza]

I'm not planning on a strict keto diet. I'm just doing an extended "Adaption Phase/Stage" of the Metabolic Diet, a diet, or way of eating that I have followed since 2003. Mauro DiPasquale introduced this diet back in the early 1990's when it was called "The Anabolic Diet". Since then it's been refined into the Metabolic Diet. Supposedly there is a second edition coming out soon but I haven't seen anything new or any updates on any of his sites. The diet itself is variable in the amount of carbohydrates you can eat, so it's ok for people who can't handle strictly low carb diets. It can help teach you how to find your "Carbohydrate Set point". Guidelines for the phase that I'm in now are Fat-50-60% of caloric intake, Protein- 30-40% of caloric intake and Carbohydrate 30 grams or less(4-10%). The assessment adaption phase can be anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks long. I've decided to go 5 weeks this time around. I've only been off the diet maybe 3 times since 2003. Every-time I do go off for whatever reason I feel like crap. Eating this way is more of a lifestyle for me and not just a temporary thing. I wouldn't follow any other plan because this is what has worked for me for the past 10 years. If I ever have any questions, I just look them up in the book/books that I have from Mauro or I have emailed him before. When I first started I was able to call him up by phone and he actually called me back personally with straight answers to my questions about the diet. I don't like getting information from 3rd party sources, I like going straight to the horses mouth so to speak.

Very cool.. I used to have great results recomping on 30-50g carbs, moderate fat and high protein. I have been experimenting w much higher than average carb amounts since October.. Gained ~12 to 15 quality pounds while maintaining or losing bf during the entire process. I can't wait to start cutting (with versa1!) in April and reduce my carbs then carb cycle then go keto for the finishing touches for summer!

[JM1437]

Very cool.. I used to have great results recomping on 30-50g carbs, moderate fat and high protein. I have been experimenting w much higher than average carb amounts since October.. Gained ~12 to 15 quality pounds while maintaining or losing bf during the entire process. I can't wait to start cutting (with versa1!) in April and reduce my carbs then carb cycle then go keto for the finishing touches for summer!

Versa is awesome for cutting. I didnt cut when I beta tested it but I notice a lot of appetite suppression. It was hard for me to get all my calories in without forcefully shoveling food into my system lol.

[The Solution]

I've been through his body recomp website and reaped the freebies. I have yet to buy a book of his. You say it's a worthwhile read?

Lyle knows his information better than most out there. LOL to say "Not interested in his work" To each his own though, if you are going to negate a great resource that is full of information and pub med studies, then so be it.. to be ignorant to someone who studies this for their life thats great, but if you arent going to run keto by nature (As t-bone is not) and kind of modifying it by throwing in sources like quest bars, it will treally through off your perception of true keto and reaching ketosis by the limitations most follow on the diet, but then again its his diet and what he wants to do, if he gets results that is whta matters.

[drewsicle3210]

Lyle knows his information better than most out there. LOL to say "Not interested in his work" To each his own though, if you are going to negate a great resource that is full of information and pub med studies, then so be it.. to be ignorant to someone who studies this for their life thats great, but if you arent going to run keto by nature (As t-bone is not) and kind of modifying it by throwing in sources like quest bars, it will treally through off your perception of true keto and reaching ketosis by the limitations most follow on the diet, but then again its his diet and what he wants to do, if he gets results that is whta matters.

Well, T bone has a point. Lyle attributes the roots and the early research to Mauro Dipasquale, even says so in his book. They spout the same info, which is legit.

I am going to finish reading this book and hopefully have aome success with the method. I am just worried that it may mess with my energy when I go back to work this week. Wonder if the diet could be utilized during a leangains IF protocol?

[chedapalooza]

Well, T bone has a point. Lyle attributes the roots and the early research to Mauro Dipasquale, even says so in his book. They spout the same info, which is legit.

I am going to finish reading this book and hopefully have aome success with the method. I am just worried that it may mess with my energy when I go back to work this week. Wonder if the diet could be utilized during a leangains IF protocol?

I did keto IF style... Bcaas during fast .. Some days were tougher than others lol

[drewsicle3210]

I did keto IF style... Bcaas during fast .. Some days were tougher than others lol

Yeah. I had a bit of an unplanned carb up Friday morning. I was so friggin hungry. I didn't make it to my feeding window that day, 30 or so minutes shy. But, I stayed within my cal's for the day.

[The Solution]

Well, T bone has a point. Lyle attributes the roots and the early research to Mauro Dipasquale, even says so in his book. They spout the same info, which is legit.

I am going to finish reading this book and hopefully have aome success with the method. I am just worried that it may mess with my energy when I go back to work this week. Wonder if the diet could be utilized during a leangains IF protocol?

I bet it would work, any diet would work with IF, IF is just a lifestyle diet its used as a personal preference to adjust to your lifestyle to eating in a smaller window. You could do a bulk, cut on IF, just depends on your intake and how you handle larger meals.

" Lyle attributes the roots and the early research to Mauro Dipasquale, even says so in his book. They spout the same info, which is legit.

^^ Thats why i said the information is very well written because he added his research + those of others, The reason its 200 pages is because it has a ton of great information not only on Keto, but also what Keto can do to the body, and what its benefits/negatives can also supply as well.

I guess suggesting a book is "Ignorant" towards a keto diet. But like i said if you find an alternative and you prefer it by all means rock it out, Keto is going to vary depending on a TKD/CKD etc, so you could put a twist on it but in the end if you get results. Rock it out. Research which has been done is a learning tool to why people study it and what the benefits can offer with their time in the lab/research on given diets and how they can vary from individual to individual given their goal and how they respond to different macronutrients

I did keto IF style... Bcaas during fast .. Some days were tougher than others lol

You dont need BCAA's during your fast, even martin says to keep them just for pre-workout if you use it for fasted training (10g BCAA prior) other than that during the fast just water, diet soda, coffee etc...

"Training is initiated on an empty stomach and after ingestion of 10 g BCAA or similar amino acid mixture. This "pre-workout" meal is not counted towards the feeding phase. Technically, training is not completely fasted - that would be detrimental. The pre-workout protein intake, with its stimulatory effect on protein synthesis and metabolism, is a crucial compromise to optimize results. The 8-hour feeding phase starts with the post-workout meal."

****** No calories are to be ingested during the fasted phase, though coffee, calorie free sweeteners, diet soda and sugar free gum are ok (even though they might contain trace amount of calories). A tiny splash of milk in your coffee won’t affect anything either (½-1 teaspoon of milk per cup at the most - use sparingly and sensibly if you drink a lot of coffee). Neither will sugar free gum in moderation (~20 g).***

People sometimes ask me which protocol is best. I tend to look at things from a behavioral perspective first and foremost, so my reply to that is to choose the protocol best suited to your daily routine and training preferences. When dealing with clients I make the choice for them. If you work a 9-5 job and your only option is to train after work, training fasted is generally a bad idea and I always choose the one or two meals pre-workout protocol.

^^ From Martin's site and the leangains guide, i think the BCAA during the fast would illicit a protein response of BCAA's instantly entering the system not really making it a fasting period, the reason for the BCAA prior to workout on a fasted state it because you have had no food for quite some time so training after 14-16 hours or so of fasting would not be "Optimal" to his standards, but that would have to be something addressed to him via an email for a further response IMO. Just a generic stab at what he may have to say.

[drewsicle3210]

You dont need BCAA's during your fast, even martin says to keep them just for pre-workout if you use it for fasted training (10g BCAA prior) other than that during the fast just water, diet soda, coffee etc...

Doesn't Martin also say 10g BCAA's every 2 hours until feed?
Example: workout at 0600- 10g pre wo, then 10g at 0800, 10g at 1000, and 10g at 1200 for a feeding window that begins at 1400.
Seems like a lot of BCAA's.

i have been debating on making my window like 9-1500 or something so I can eat sooner after my workout.

[chedapalooza]

I actually don't use bcaa during my fast

Or pre workout :/

I still make gains and increase my strength.. But I often wonder if not ingesting bcaa PRE is lessening my results and performance from maximal...

[drewsicle3210]

I actually don't use bcaa during my fast

Or pre workout :/

I still make gains and increase my strength.. But I often wonder if not ingesting bcaa PRE is lessening my results and performance from maximal...

I would think that it might be. NP has a kilo of bulk modern bcaa's for cheap right now.

[chedapalooza]

I would think that it might be. NP has a kilo of bulk modern bcaa's for cheap right now.

Yea I have them,I just use them post workout n during stretches I can't have access to food (during feed window)

[drewsicle3210]

Random question. So I am doing leangains protocol, with a feeding period 12-8 or 2-8. This is about the 4th week or so.
I am freezing. I mean I am cold almost all of the time. I know my resting heart rate is low, but that shold not cause this.
This is definitely something that has started in the last couple of weeks.
I eat 2187 calories a day- 35/35/30- Pro/Carb/fat
Workout 6 days a week. Lots of water intake.

Anybody with any backround or knowledge as to why I am cold?

[chedapalooza]

Random question. So I am doing leangains protocol, with a feeding period 12-8 or 2-8. This is about the 4th week or so.
I am freezing. I mean I am cold almost all of the time. I know my resting heart rate is low, but that shold not cause this.
This is definitely something that has started in the last couple of weeks.
I eat 2187 calories a day- 35/35/30- Pro/Carb/fat
Workout 6 days a week. Lots of water intake.

Anybody with any backround or knowledge as to why I am cold?

Happens to me always in fasting period.. Actually almost all the time lol. Just lower Bp and circulation isn't as fast bc youre in a fasted state, all your bodies processes are slowed down to an extent... Even on thermos, my fingers and toes are usually frigid.

You could also need slightly higher cals... But I'm pretty sure it's from the first thing I said

I'm on hour 32 of a 36 hour fast at the moment just felt like it was necessary, was having water retention issues and low energy... Nothing like a 36 hour fast to fix that up right quick! Going to shoot some hoops then it's chow time!

[The Solution]

Doesn't Martin also say 10g BCAA's every 2 hours until feed?
Example: workout at 0600- 10g pre wo, then 10g at 0800, 10g at 1000, and 10g at 1200 for a feeding window that begins at 1400.
Seems like a lot of BCAA's.

i have been debating on making my window like 9-1500 or something so I can eat sooner after my workout.

Here

http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

Fasted training

Training is initiated on an empty stomach and after ingestion of 10 g BCAA or similar amino acid mixture. This "pre-workout" meal is not counted towards the feeding phase. Technically, training is not completely fasted - that would be detrimental. The pre-workout protein intake, with its stimulatory effect on protein synthesis and metabolism, is a crucial compromise to optimize results. The 8-hour feeding phase starts with the post-workout meal.

Sample setup

11.30-12 AM or 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA
12-1 PM: Training
1 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal of the day).
4 PM: Second meal.
9 PM: Last meal before the fast.

Calories and carbs are tapered down throughout the day in the example above.

Early morning fasted training

Here's a sample setup for a client that trains early in the morning and prefers the feeding phase at noon or later. Read this for details regarding this protocol.

6 AM: 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA.
6-7 AM: Training.
8 AM: 10 g BCAA.
10 AM: 10 g BCAA
12-1 PM: The "real" post-workout meal (largest meal of the day). Start of the 8 hour feeding-window.
8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast.

For the sake of conveniency, I recommend getting BCAA in the form of powder and not tabs. Simply mix 30 g of BCAA powder in a shake and drink one third of it every other hour starting 5-15 minutes pre-workout. Tabs are cheaper, but much more of a hassle (you're going to have to pop a lot of tabs). Check my supplements guide for specific brand recommendations.


I will stop commenting because i keep getting negged by users on this thread for my input regarding the subject...

[The Solution]

Random question. So I am doing leangains protocol, with a feeding period 12-8 or 2-8. This is about the 4th week or so.
I am freezing. I mean I am cold almost all of the time. I know my resting heart rate is low, but that shold not cause this.
This is definitely something that has started in the last couple of weeks.
I eat 2187 calories a day- 35/35/30- Pro/Carb/fat
Workout 6 days a week. Lots of water intake.

Anybody with any backround or knowledge as to why I am cold?

I got this too towards the end of contest prep when calories dropped, it may have to do regarding drops in hormone , t3, leptin levels from dieting or lower caloric intake. No symptoms on refeeds or once kcals started to raise up. Even in the colder months of the year.

Try searching on Martin's website regarding it.. this is something i did notice as well.. but then again anyone who does diet or lowers calories will get colder from long term dieting. Think about individuals in contest prep or those dieting who get towards the lower ends of their cutting periods and will be cold. Could be a hormonal thing...

Check this one. or search for hormones on his leangains page.

Intermittent Fasting, Set-Point and Leptin | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health

[drewsicle3210]

I got this too towards the end of contest prep when calories dropped, it may have to do regarding drops in hormone , t3, leptin levels from dieting or lower caloric intake. No symptoms on refeeds or once kcals started to raise up. Even in the colder months of the year.

Try searching on Martin's website regarding it.. this is something i did notice as well.. but then again anyone who does diet or lowers calories will get colder from long term dieting. Think about individuals in contest prep or those dieting who get towards the lower ends of their cutting periods and will be cold. Could be a hormonal thing...

Check this one. or search for hormones on his leangains page.

Intermittent Fasting, Set-Point and Leptin | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health

ok. I have dropped a great deal of weight in the last 4 months, about 35 pounds.
i should probably bump my calories up a notch. Thanks for the links.

[The Solution]

I would also make sure you are doing refeeds or cheat meals.. these will help a ton with hormones, leptin, t3 levels and help with continual fatloss as well

Lyle mcDonald has great articles on his website bodyrecomposition. and some good information can be found off layne norton articles on refeeding and its importance.

[chedapalooza]

I would also make sure you are doing refeeds or cheat meals.. these will help a ton with hormones, leptin, t3 levels and help with continual fatloss as well

Lyle mcDonald has great articles on his website bodyrecomposition. and some good information can be found off layne norton articles on refeeding and its importance.

How do u know when to refeed? What if u don't ever feel deprived ? Should u still force a refeed ? Mainly obviously once fat loss plateaus..

[drewsicle3210]

I would also make sure you are doing refeeds or cheat meals.. these will help a ton with hormones, leptin, t3 levels and help with continual fatloss as well

Lyle mcDonald has great articles on his website bodyrecomposition. and some good information can be found off layne norton articles on refeeding and its importance.

I've been on that site, and just received a copy of his "The Ketogenic Diet" yesterday. I am plowing through it as much as I can. The wife is almost ready to give birth, so I have a chore list a mile long. I told her I have to read this for my training and conditioning class that I am taking at AMU.

[hawaiianhulk]

I've been on that site, and just received a copy of his "The Ketogenic Diet" yesterday. I am plowing through it as much as I can. The wife is almost ready to give birth, so I have a chore list a mile long. I told her I have to read this for my training and conditioning class that I am taking at AMU.

Awesome