Epistane doesn't work !!

[judd]

Epistane doesn't work for me !!

I'm on my 17th day at 30 mg per day and i feel nothing !
Actually the only things i'm having are : libido slightly up and a little of lethargy, that's all !!
I'm very angry and disapointed for it, because i bought 2 bottles for a 5 weeks cycle and it's a complete waste !
:damnit:

 

[judd]

Sorry, i forgot to say i'm losing strenght and some headache, i think for bp..
I'm not bulking, i'm after a recomposition, so my calories are slightly lower than normal..

 

[reptone]

Epi takes about 3 weeks to feel. You are either lacking in the nutrition or sleep department. Or possibly a non responder. As far as headache/BP, get some Hawthorne berry or one of the many Cycle Assist supps out there(I like CEL Cycle Assist and Purus Organ Shield).

 

[GeekPoop]

up the dose than?

 

[Mick81]

30mg? Seems low to me, I thought epi was better up around the 50-60mg mark. 3rd week is definately where it kicks in tho.

Also up water intake to ease the headaches....

 

[deadaim]

Its more likely you suck than the epistane sucking...

But also I have heard that some people simply do not respond to epistane.

 

[judd]

Thanks guys for your replies..
Yes, for bp i'm taking cycle support already and drinking lot of water..
I will up the dose to 40 next week..
Rest is ok, diet is slightly below maintenance because i'm after a recomposition.. Lot of proteins less carbs, and good fats..
Let see next days..
I heard bad reviews on IBE epistane last days..
:-(

 

[judd]

Its more likely you suck than the epistane sucking...

But also I have heard that some people simply do not respond to epistane.

Sorry mate, but when i was 160 lb as you are ( long time ago ) i not even knew the prohormones existed..
I was more concentrated on eating and pushing..

 

[M16]

Can you provide me with links to these reviews ???,,,IBE Epistane sells out everywhere very fast{Everyone knows this}...Sooo it's obviously a good product otherwise it would not keep selling out time and time again.

Remember when doing a recomp your calories are below maintenance so recovery and strength can still be an issue even with Epistane...The Epistanes main purpose during this phase is to help retain as much muscle tissue as possible, while stripping away unwanted bodyfat.

Thanks guys for your replies..
Yes, for bp i'm taking cycle support already and drinking lot of water..
I will up the dose to 40 next week..
Rest is ok, diet is slightly below maintenance because i'm after a recomposition.. Lot of proteins less carbs, and good fats..
Let see next days..
I heard bad reviews on IBE epistane last days..
:-(

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Yeah epi shouldn't really be ran at anything less than 40mg....my first epi cycle i ran epi for 6 weeks and finished at 60mg

 

[judd]

Can you provide me with links to these reviews ???,,,IBE Epistane sells out everywhere very fast{Everyone knows this}...Sooo it's obviously a good product otherwise it would not keep selling out time and time again.

Remember when doing a recomp your calories are below maintenance so recovery and strength can still be an issue even with Epistane...The Epistanes main purpose during this phase is to help retain as much muscle tissue as possible, while stripping away unwanted bodyfat.

Yes i can sir, here for example : [To be able to post links or images your post count must be 50 or greater. You currently have 4 posts]
( i hope is not against the rules )

 

[judd]

Sorry, i can't post links here..

 

[judd]

Remember when doing a recomp your calories are below maintenance so recovery and strength can still be an issue even with Epistane...The Epistanes main purpose during this phase is to help retain as much muscle tissue as possible, while stripping away unwanted bodyfat.

Anyway, this should be for a cut, for a recomposition epistane should help to add some muscle while losing some fat, otherwise recomposition doesn't make any sense..

:think:

 

[celc5]

30mg? Seems low to me, I thought epi was better up around the 50-60mg mark. 3rd week is definately where it kicks in tho.

Also up water intake to ease the headaches....

Agreed.

to the OP,
When epi first came out, a lot of people were afraid to run appropriate dosages and had lethargy at 20 and 30mg. The lethargy disappates at 40 and 50mg according to a lot of the IBE reps, and in my own experience.

Even though you said you're drinking a lot of water, I'd bet for sure that you're not taking in enough. Count the exact number of ounces of water per day. Your eyeballs should be floating at close to 2 gallons per day and your BP will be stay put.

Finally, I bet your strength is suffering from the lethargy. I personally see really good success with low dose caffeine on cycle. Now I wouldn't use ephedrine or yohimbe ON cycle, but like 100mg of caffeine is enough to combat lethargy without increasing BP for me. Others suggest adding DHEA ON cycle to address lethargy but I never had any results with that method.

 

[M16]

Pick your goal...Very few people can add muscle while in a caloric deficit...Steroids or not. Epistane would help preserve the muscle you have while losing bodyfat...If you don't believe me there are tons of competitors that will tell you the same thing.

Your either getting lean...Or gaining tissue. Most of us with normal genetics can't do both at the same time.

Anyway, this should be for a cut, for a recomposition epistane should help to add some muscle while losing some fat, otherwise recomposition doesn't make any sense..

:think:

 

[judd]

Pick your goal...Very few people can add muscle while in a caloric deficit...Steroids or not. Epistane would help preserve the muscle you have while losing bodyfat...If you don't believe me there are tons of competitors that will tell you the same thing.

Your either getting lean...Or gaining tissue. Most of us with normal genetics can't do both at the same time.

So, you're saying recomposition doesn't exist ?
Because i read of lot of people gaining muscle while losing fat on the forums..
I'm not getting lean and i'm not gaining tissue..
Is something wrong whit me ?!
If i knew that epistane didn't help me for a recomposition like many people say they got, surely i wouldn't buy it !!

 

[brownchoclit]

hey bro..when you cut you consume less than your maintenance cal's. with recomp/lean bulk you will be consuming slightly over your maintenance. if you're eating less than maintenance then don't expect much lean mass gain..as other mentioned..the ph will help you hang onto as much muscle as possible. i'd go with the recomp route..you can expect decent fat loss whilst putting on some muscle...best of both worlds. and yeah..your daily intake of epi is too little..you can afford to bump it up a bit.

 

[judd]

hey bro..when you cut you consume less than your maintenance cal's. with recomp/lean bulk you will be consuming slightly over your maintenance. if you're eating less than maintenance then don't expect much lean mass gain..as other mentioned..the ph will help you hang onto as much muscle as possible. i'd go with the recomp route..you can expect decent fat loss whilst putting on some muscle...best of both worlds. and yeah..your daily intake of epi is too little..you can afford to bump it up a bit.

Until now i've always heard for recomposition to keep calories slightly below maintenance, now you're saying to keep slightly above..
I think i'll follow your input mate, and also i upped the dose to 40 mg from now to all 4thy week.. let's see ( fingers crossed )

 

[celc5]

Unless you're using calipers or hydrostatic weighing, there's no possible way that you know if recomp is occuring anyhow.

Some people say they're gaining weight and looking leaner. But you'll never know with the "eyeball" method on cycle because a lot of us bloat on cycle even without other estrogenic symptoms.

 

[brownchoclit]

Until now i've always heard for recomposition to keep calories slightly below maintenance, now you're saying to keep slightly above..
I think i'll follow your input mate, and also i upped the dose to 40 mg from now to all 4thy week.. let's see ( fingers crossed )

as mentioned earlier..your're going to have a tough time putting on muscle if you're eating under maintenance. what i find is effective for me it to eat slightly over maintenance and then make the caloric deficit through cardio. yeah give it a go..you wont be disappointed..dont wait till later..make the adjustments today and start making them gainzzzz!!

 

[AK32408]

Everyone is absolutely right, 30mg at day 17 is way too little.

Starting with 30 or 40mg seems ok, but you have to ramp up the dosage each week to get the most out of it.

 

[judd]

Everyone is absolutely right, 30mg at day 17 is way too little.

Starting with 30 or 40mg seems ok, but you have to ramp up the dosage each week to get the most out of it.

Everywhere, everyone says 40 mg should be the max for a first cycle..
Atm i'm running 40 mg per day.. today is day 22 and still feeling nothing..
Actually i'm losing strenght, it could be the hot weather and higher volume i'm working out, but that's what i should do when i'm on epi..
Same weight no leaner no bigger, less strenght just a good pump ( it can be also for higher volume )..
Very disapointed till now..

 

[brownchoclit]

Everywhere, everyone says 40 mg should be the max for a first cycle..
Atm i'm running 40 mg per day.. today is day 22 and still feeling nothing..
Actually i'm losing strenght, it could be the hot weather and higher volume i'm working out, but that's what i should do when i'm on epi..
Same weight no leaner no bigger, less strenght just a good pump ( it can be also for higher volume )..
Very disapointed till now..

why not up the dosage? i am running 75mg's/ed now and i think i've hit a sweet spot...its finally kick in..i just started my 4th weel (out of 6wks).

 

[celc5]

Everywhere, everyone says 40 mg should be the max for a first cycle

No one in THIS thread seems to agree with this statement

 

[TheDarkHalf]

No one in THIS thread seems to agree with this statement

Maybe in the first week! I ended my first cycle at 60mg

 

[judd]

No one in THIS thread seems to agree with this statement

In U.K and europe people just go for 30 or 40 mg per day and they get good results, when someone ( few dudes ) says he went higher, usually the faces are as :scared: ARE YOU SERIOUS ?!?!

 

[brownchoclit]

i think when it comes with epi...in most forums..the average max dosage you see it run is at 40mg's.

 

[judd]

why not up the dosage? i am running 75mg's/ed now and i think i've hit a sweet spot...its finally kick in..i just started my 4th weel (out of 6wks).

Hi mate ! Ok i'm upping the dosage to 50 mg from today as you suggested, but just to know, how did you up your dosage to 75 mg when the caps are 10 mg each ?!

 

[brownchoclit]

i am using a brand called epi-strong..they come in 15mg tabs...cool eh ..you can buy it at orbit nutrition...very good value for money

 

[judd]

I wish !!
Unfortunately i can't buy from USA, the only one time i tried ( many years ago ) the custom stopped my pack saying i needed a prescription from my doctor, after that i had to fill a form and pay a tax..
I sent it back..
You think it was only Animal pack and the problem was the vit c dosage ( here in Italy you can't buy a supplement where the vit c is higher than 180 mg )..
I lost only the shipping fees to send it back..
:sad3:
I'd like to buy Alpha t-2 too..
:sad3::sad3:

 

[brownchoclit]

oh.. thats really sucks bro...

 

[Mick81]

Everywhere, everyone says 40 mg should be the max for a first cycle..
Atm i'm running 40 mg per day.. today is day 22 and still feeling nothing..
Actually i'm losing strenght, it could be the hot weather and higher volume i'm working out, but that's what i should do when i'm on epi..
Same weight no leaner no bigger, less strenght just a good pump ( it can be also for higher volume )..
Very disapointed till now..

You would be losing strength because you're running a calorie deficit. Even when I'm eating around 3000 cals over maintenence during a PH cycle, I lean out, and feel like I need to eat non stop to keep my strength up. PH's like Epi will have a recomp effect even at a lowish dose (40mg), with the right diet in place, but it has to be surplus.

You're body is in an anabolic state atm, but you aren't feeding it enough to grow. Wasted Epi IMO

 

[AK32408]

You would be losing strength because you're running a calorie deficit. Even when I'm eating around 3000 cals over maintenence during a PH cycle, I lean out, and feel like I need to eat non stop to keep my strength up. PH's like Epi will have a recomp effect even at a lowish dose (40mg), with the right diet in place, but it has to be surplus.

You're body is in an anabolic state atm, but you aren't feeding it enough to grow. Wasted Epi IMO

You got it !

You can't expect your body to grow if you're not feeding it anything for the Epistane to work with. It's not labeled as a "fat burner". Get your diet up to par and Epi at the right doses and you will see results.

You should have done more research before you started..

 

[judd]

You got it !

You can't expect your body to grow if you're not feeding it anything for the Epistane to work with. It's not labeled as a "fat burner". Get your diet up to par and Epi at the right doses and you will see results.

You should have done more research before you started..

Have you ever tought to the possibility that Epistane just doesn't work ( at least this lot whit me ) ?
I have researched a lot before to start and most of the people says for a first cycle don't go over 40 mg per day.. even on the IBE website for an hardcore cycle the dosage is 40 mg per day, I'M at 50 mg per day and losing strenght when i didn't take EPISTANE and worser diet I WAS still gaining strenght..
If the Epistane worked, i should have any side, but the only side i had till now are a little better libido and from last night a little of pain on my nipple..
These are facts, and YOU should have read better before saying something..
One more thing, you're an IBE rep, thank you for erase my thread from your forum after i gave you the Lot # ..

 

[AK32408]

Have you ever tought to the possibility that Epistane just doesn't work ( at least this lot whit me ) ?
I have researched a lot before to start and most of the people says for a first cycle don't go over 40 mg per day.. even on the IBE website for an hardcore cycle the dosage is 40 mg per day, I'M at 50 mg per day and losing strenght when i didn't take EPISTANE and worser diet I WAS still gaining strenght..
If the Epistane worked, i should have any side, but the only side i had till now are a little better libido and from last night a little of pain on my nipple..
These are facts, and YOU should have read better before saying something..
One more thing, you're an IBE rep, thank you for erase my thread from your forum after i gave you the Lot # ..

I didn't erase anything. I have no idea what you're talking about.

I said you should have done more research mainly because of you diet, or lack thereof...

Sorry Epi didn't give you the results you desired.

 

[judd]

I didn't erase anything. I have no idea what you're talking about.

I said you should have done more research mainly because of you diet, or lack thereof...

Sorry Epi didn't give you the results you desired.

No problem mate, it's not your fault.. Maybe Epistane doesn't work for me, or maybe is IBE epistane, anyway i have around 10 days left and i'm upping the calories a lot just to see what happens..
Epi at 50 mg.. LEt's see next days..

 

[brownchoclit]

good luck bro..really hope it does something...i've got two more weeks left on my epi cycle and i have to admit that the gains have been less than stelar..decent strength gains..but size wise..nothing to write home about yet. i am hoping the remaining two weeks will add a bit more lean mass...

 

[judd]

Today i upped the dose to 60 mg..
Review till now :
I think Epistane is a weak steroid, and need to be dosed around between 40 and 60 mg or higher ( depend on cycle's experience and sides )..
It needs higher calories to be efective so if you're after a cut or a recomposition i wouldn't waste the money and i would go at least for a lean bulk or a bulk ( but i think there are better ph or ds out there for these goals )
Sides till now :
Lost of strenght, yes sadly true :-( , small headaches ( just add water and hawthorn berry ) from yesterday light back pump, lethargy ! ( sometime bad ! )
I don't wanna insert the better libido on the sides ! ( very good week ends... )
Let's see the last 10 days at 60 mg

 

[M16]

Well that's you experience with it...Many, many other people say otherwise and sup companies can't keep it stocked for very long because it always sells out. Maybe your next PS/DS cycle will treat you better...I personally love Epi and it's very very close to anavar, as far as strength gains with very little sides are concerned.

 

[AK32408]

Today i upped the dose to 60 mg..
Review till now :
I think Epistane is a weak steroid, and need to be dosed around between 40 and 60 mg or higher ( depend on cycle's experience and sides )..
It needs higher calories to be efective so if you're after a cut or a recomposition i wouldn't waste the money and i would go at least for a lean bulk or a bulk ( but i think there are better ph or ds out there for these goals )
Sides till now :
Lost of strenght, yes sadly true :-( , small headaches ( just add water and hawthorn berry ) from yesterday light back pump, lethargy ! ( sometime bad ! )
I don't wanna insert the better libido on the sides ! ( very good week ends... )
Let's see the last 10 days at 60 mg

Epi is a pretty popular choice for many on a cut or recomp cycle actually (it retains muscle mass and strength even when calories are somewhat reduced but still above maintence). They just revamp their diet to high protein, high good fats, and a moderate daily complex carb intake.

Keep us updated on how your body reacts to a week at 60mg/day even if you still don't see a difference by the time the bottle is empty.


From reading tons of Epistane logs, I 've come to the conclusion that you really have to focus the most on your diet instead all of it on the way you train. Sure, you still have to lift very hard and get plenty of rest, but diet is what's really gonna take the PH to a whole different level.

 

[HumpTheCook]

Today i upped the dose to 60 mg..
Review till now :
I think Epistane is a weak steroid, and need to be dosed around between 40 and 60 mg or higher ( depend on cycle's experience and sides )..
It needs higher calories to be efective so if you're after a cut or a recomposition i wouldn't waste the money and i would go at least for a lean bulk or a bulk ( but i think there are better ph or ds out there for these goals )
Sides till now :
Lost of strenght, yes sadly true :-( , small headaches ( just add water and hawthorn berry ) from yesterday light back pump, lethargy ! ( sometime bad ! )
I don't wanna insert the better libido on the sides ! ( very good week ends... )
Let's see the last 10 days at 60 mg

by depriving your body of even maintenance calories you are putting your body into a catabolic state. you cant expect to gain strength when eating less than your body requires to maintain itself. the anabolic effects of the epi would help you keep your muscle during a cut but you can not expect it to do everything. you attempted a recomp but you did it wrong, live and learn. steroids or prohormones cant do the work for you, if you dont do your part, they cant do theirs. they supplement what you do. better luck next time, but this is why people on these boards always say not to rush into cycles... this here is a perfect example as to why.

 

[SouthernCharm]

by depriving your body of even maintenance calories you are putting your body into a catabolic state. you cant expect to gain strength when eating less than your body requires to maintain itself. the anabolic effects of the epi would help you keep your muscle during a cut but you can not expect it to do everything. you attempted a recomp but you did it wrong, live and learn. steroids or prohormones cant do the work for you, if you dont do your part, they cant do theirs. they supplement what you do. better luck next time, but this is why people on these boards always say not to rush into cycles... this here is a perfect example as to why.

the ugly truth........

 

[judd]

by depriving your body of even maintenance calories you are putting your body into a catabolic state. you cant expect to gain strength when eating less than your body requires to maintain itself. the anabolic effects of the epi would help you keep your muscle during a cut but you can not expect it to do everything. you attempted a recomp but you did it wrong, live and learn. steroids or prohormones cant do the work for you, if you dont do your part, they cant do theirs. they supplement what you do. better luck next time, but this is why people on these boards always say not to rush into cycles... this here is a perfect example as to why.

I apreciate your opinions guys, but why i made my diet as i did has been only because lot of people ( and even the owner and sponsor of a shop in an U.K. bodybuilding forum ) told me to go below maintenance..
I read of LOT of people having good results in adding lean muscle while losing fat and i've chosed to go whit epistane for all this reasons ( because i also have 1T and i was going for it but lot of people told me the epi was better for my goal )..
You talk as i'm the first moron here, but you don't know me.. I'm 30 years old and i train since i was 16.. here my stats : 184 cm, 92 kg deadlift 220 kg squat 190 kg bench 135 kg
This was the first time i took anabolics
Defenitely i spoke in my case and not in general as someone said before..

 

[hardknock]

Have you ever tought to the possibility that Epistane just doesn't work ( at least this lot whit me ) ?
I have researched a lot before to start and most of the people says for a first cycle don't go over 40 mg per day.. even on the IBE website for an hardcore cycle the dosage is 40 mg per day, I'M at 50 mg per day and losing strenght when i didn't take EPISTANE and worser diet I WAS still gaining strenght..
If the Epistane worked, i should have any side, but the only side i had till now are a little better libido and from last night a little of pain on my nipple..
These are facts, and YOU should have read better before saying something..
One more thing, you're an IBE rep, thank you for erase my thread from your forum after i gave you the Lot # ..

How many calories under maintenance are you down?

Something is not right with your experience here. Even a slight calorie deficiency, you should at least see some strength gain even if minimal. The whole lot about lowering your calories causing you to lose strength while on cycle does hole merit however if you are slightly lowering calories, say 500-1000, then that should not be enough to KILL your strength gains.

There is a world of difference between losing some strength and KILLING YOUR STRENGTH GAINS and SIZE.

This, especially since you have HAD STRENGTH gains with less food and no steroidal compounds.

Either you are pulling everyone's leg, do not have a clue to what you are doing or you have a bunk batch, end of story.

 

[brownchoclit]

hey chief...hows 60mg's treating ya?? i've managed to put on 40lbs on my flat bench over the course of this cycle...pretty good..got one more chest workout next week and then my cycle is over.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

I like IBE alot, and have alot of there products. But if this guy is a non-responder. Let him be that.

He isnt hating, he is giving feedback. That IMO, is his right.

There are non-responders to all compounds, even test. Unreal machine for instance.

Again Judd, sorry epistane didnt do it for you. Almost all reviews are very good. Especially dosed at 30-50mg ED.

Good lifts btw.

 

[Moeller]

Your either getting lean...Or gaining tissue. Most of us with normal genetics can't do both at the same time.

Agreed. I've always had issues with 'recomping', if you're eating at the caloric level to stay at the same weight, why would your body respond in any other way but to stay the same?

 

[judd]

How many calories under maintenance are you down?

Something is not right with your experience here. Even a slight calorie deficiency, you should at least see some strength gain even if minimal. The whole lot about lowering your calories causing you to lose strength while on cycle does hole merit however if you are slightly lowering calories, say 500-1000, then that should not be enough to KILL your strength gains.

There is a world of difference between losing some strength and KILLING YOUR STRENGTH GAINS and SIZE.

This, especially since you have HAD STRENGTH gains with less food and no steroidal compounds.

Either you are pulling everyone's leg, do not have a clue to what you are doing or you have a bunk batch, end of story.

That's what i was expecting from epistane..
I upped the calories since day 17th more or less..
I'm defenitely ABOVE maintenance and still losing strenght..
How can someone explain to pass from 34 kg x 6 to 27 kg x 8 in seatead dumbell shoulder press ( just for example ) ? I call it lost of strenght..
The sizes are good, maybe little bigger, but strenght really sucks !
I've checked my work out book and i saw i did this weight years ago..

 

[judd]

hey chief...hows 60mg's treating ya?? i've managed to put on 40lbs on my flat bench over the course of this cycle...pretty good..got one more chest workout next week and then my cycle is over.

Hi buddy, have you got a log here around ? I wanna have a look..
I've just started 60 mg yesterday.. today day off i'm not going to run this week because i wanna have more calories ABOVE maintenance this last days ( i'm thinking to go till 40 days )..
You lucky 40 lbs on bench, i'm losing strenght instead !
:damnit:

 

[judd]

One more thing for everyone..
I'M NOT saying Epistane doesn't work for everyone ( lot of logs say it works well ), i'm just writing my experience on it..
No offence for anybody.. I apreciate every single opinion here in this thread just because i like to hear everyone's opinion..
I'm not making fun of anyone anyway, maybe sometime my english is not very good i'm sorry for that..