Ok guys as promised im doing my follow up. I dont know if i should do my log on this thread or start a new one. Give me suggestions. Now before I start ill give you my stats. I am 21 6'2, 235.6 lbs and i dont even want to know my body fat. I have been working out religisloy for about two years now but only for one year have I gotten my diet really in place. Egg whites in morning, lunch, snack, and other meals= chicken, brown rice, and brocolli, and of coarse whey. When I run a cycle I stick to this like a pet dog day in and day out. As all of you know im sure you get greef from you friends and family as they peg you with.. Your boring, dull or just crazy. I say, "not every one is cut out to have a good body". No pun intended haha. Anyways im sure a few of you older guys will ream me for even taking hormones but I feel i have the maturity and responsibility to not overdue anything. Also I have been comptimplating on getting a serm or not. Let me just say this is my third cycle and I think the other 2 were bunk. 1st one was Super Mass Tabs.. Not the original but claimed to be a clone. What I did gain was most likely from the improved diet and extra effort in the gym. Was happy but lost everything and didnt feel on top of the world.. Now for the 2nd cycle. It was 4andro and 1ad from BB.com I payed like 150 bucks for 2 bottles of each and got nothing but a lightened wallet. Again I cant blame the product cause I did eat comfortably meaning not sticking to my diet. Ate pretty much whatever I wanted and didnt stick to the 6 meals a day. Perhaps its a great product but perhaps not. I bought both of these products on just my judgment and the good advertising and learned from it. I am a strong believer of this forum now due to the great things said about epitane, not only this site but all over the web people rave. Im leading up to my first day on Epi.. I took first 10mg dose at 1pm today with a whey shake. Felt alittle up but nothing major.. Most likely the placebo effect and that antsy feeling you get when you first start a cycle. Stayed in the house, did laundry and cooked my next 2 meals. At 7pm I went to golds and took another 10mgs. Did back and bis today and all I can say is wow.. Remember I am not the type of kid to rave about a product or to take 10min and type something onto a forum.. Id rather be watching tv or playing call of duty haha. BUT this product deserves what it deserves. First exercise I did was seating row and i went alittle heavier on my first set then i usually do. A breeze it was. Did my other 2 sets increasing 30lbs each set and the last set I did the whole stack of weights.. Something I have never even attempted. I wont bore you guys anymore pretty much my workout was much MUCH more hardcore being able to lift more and not get tired. Now please dont crush my jones and say ehh it was just placebo. If it was it was, but I dont think so due to the fact that the other 2 cycles didnt do this for me. One last thing. Im planning on dosing 20/20/30/30 and then I have enough pills for a 3 week pulse cycle at 30mg ill save for later. I do not want to go the SERM route just because I dont like the fact of taking something my mother took when she had her breast cancer.. Freaks me out. SOOOO I was thinking about getting 6-OXO or something strong OTC. any recommendations? And also for those of you who will ask im taking animal pack multi, Optimum Whey for support. Also let me know if i should move this to a diff thread or if I should even continue this. Thanks guys