EPI/Formex Cycle and PCT ... am I missing anything?

[strester]

So after months of product and pct research I'm finally ready to get my first cycle underway (just waiting on 3 bottles of Formex to arrive) ... I'm 5'11 and weight is between 205 and 210 (I weigh myself maybe twice a month and use appearance in the mirror as my main source of gains/losses). A recomp of staying in my current weight range and replacing fat that is lost with LBM is my ideal goal. I use Max OT as my training protocol. This is what I have finally nailed down, I'm just hoping the good people from IBE can point out any details I may have overlooked or if dosing should be adjusted.

Load Phase
Week 1: AI Cycle Support (1 scoop/day)
Week 2: AI Cycle Support (1 scoop/day)

Cycle
Week 3: AI Cycle Support (2 scoop/day), IBE Epistane (10/20mg), IBE Formex (25mg)
Week 4: AI Cycle Support (2 scoop/day), IBE Epistane (30mg), IBE Formex (25mg)
Week 5: AI Cycle Support (2 scoop/day), IBE Epistane (30mg), IBE Formex (50mg)
Week 6: AI Cycle Support (2 scoop/day), IBE Epistane (40mg), IBE Formex (50mg)

OTC PCT
Week 7 - 10: AI Post Cycle Support (2am/2pm), IBE Formex (IHP 25mg/75mg/25mg/...), AI Cycle Support (1 scoop/day)

Other
Orange Triad (2 pills w/ 3meals/day)
Fish Oil (dosed with Epistane)
Xtend
RPM or Purple Wraath (to combat any lethargy I may experience)
Whey
Food (clean)

EDIT: I also have bulk Super Cissus and will add that in if joint pain isn't suppressed with the fish oil

 

[M16]

I personally always think some sort of serm is always good to use at a low doseage during PCT...However Epi is mild and the Formex may be enough...If you decide to stay OTC I would maybe add a natural Test Booster and a Cort Blocker.

 

[ahendi]

I'd suggest a serm as OTC pct products just don't cut it in my eyes

 

[strester]

I'd suggest a serm as OTC pct products just don't cut it in my eyes

yeah, I know people are going to suggest a SERM, which is why I specifically referred to my plan as 'OTC PCT'

 

[strester]

I personally always think some sort of serm is always good to use at a low doseage during PCT...However Epi is mild and the Formex may be enough...If you decide to stay OTC I would maybe add a natural Test Booster and a Cort Blocker.

any word on when XLean will be available?

 

[ktatro1]

OTC you can still get somewhat of a SERM in a resveratrol product. It's no nolva or clomid, however something is better than nothing at the receptor level....

 

[ktatro1]

Also Iron Lungz said straight up Formex would not be enough as a pct. I asked that very question in the IBE forums and that was the response I got.

 

[panther77]

why are you running formex on cycle when epi has anti estrogen properties? seems overkill IMO

 

[strester]

why are you running formex on cycle when epi has anti estrogen properties? seems overkill IMO

I got the idea from this thread.

 

[Iron Lungz]

Indeed. No way will it be enough, and don't be fooled in to believing that for one moment.
Protect yourself. I am a firm advocate of spending the extra money and buying the items that will provide a proven recovery, not something that is a theory.

Also Iron Lungz said straight up Formex would not be enough as a pct. I asked that very question in the IBE forums and that was the response I got.

 

[strester]

Indeed. No way will it be enough, and don't be fooled in to believing that for one moment.
Protect yourself. I am a firm advocate of spending the extra money and buying the items that will provide a proven recovery, not something that is a theory.

I made the assumption that the Formex, PCS, Cycle Support in PCT was sufficient based on PCT threads that have come up recently, started by reps from IBE

I'm now looking into Torem and Nolva chemicals for my rats ... unfortunately where I have found Torem is out of stock and I've read that Nolva is more toxic, so I still have some hesitation about the SERMs

 

[ktatro1]

Look into Clomid as well, mg for mg is weaker than Nolva, but still very effective.

 

[ktatro1]

why are you running formex on cycle when epi has anti estrogen properties? seems overkill IMO

Ideally to combat Natural test shutdown, and keep the body in as much of a homeostatic state as possible. Even though Epi is somewhat anti-estrogenic, it will still cause some testosterone production shutdown, as will anything anabolically steroidal when taken for a given length of time.

 

[panther77]

Ideally to combat Natural test shutdown, and keep the body in as much of a homeostatic state as possible. Even though Epi is somewhat anti-estrogenic, it will still cause some testosterone production shutdown, as will anything anabolically steroidal when taken for a given length of time.

i know it causes shut down but idk that the formex would reduce that

 

[ktatro1]

i know it causes shut down but idk that the formex would reduce that

When an AI is introduced to the body, lower levels of estrogen within cause an increase in LH. This in turn is what is responsible for the increase in test. Even if you look at it from a logical standpoint, why else would he take an AI/Test booster, if the compound ingested is already anti-estrogenic by nature? The only logical conclusion would be to increase natural test levels to combat, and possibly offset testicular shutdown.

 

[ahendi]

yeah, I know people are going to suggest a SERM, which is why I specifically referred to my plan as 'OTC PCT'

Ok good luck with your "OTC pct". I prefer buying a $25 bottle of Clo and know I am getting a better pct for cheaper than all your OTC supps.

 

[ktatro1]

Ok good luck with your "OTC pct". I prefer buying a $25 bottle of Clo and know I am getting a better pct for cheaper than all your OTC supps.

Haha I would love to know where you get a bottle of Clomid for $25. Would save me massive amounts of time!

 

[panther77]

idk bout 25 but you can get it lots of places for a reasonable price...

 

[ahendi]

It's out there...

 

[Hugo Danner]

Good thread. For the IBE reps (and everyone else of course), I have a few questions related to IBE products discussed here and some other comments you've made here, as I am finalizing my cycle/PCT too. Would really appreciate your replies to all these questions:

1 - I just got the EPI in the mail, but instructions are lacking. Assuming a 20/30/30/40 cycle, I would break up dosing through the day to have a constant level. But do I take it with meals or not? If with meals, do those meals need to contain fats (I see many people state they will take EPI with Omegas). Do I need to cut things from my diet – like coffee, milk or anything else? Would really appreciate a thorough reply.


2 - I've been trying to buy Formex for a few weeks. Have called literally 2 dozen vendors and all give the same answers: A - "Formex is out of production," or B - "IBE keeps telling us we're going to receive a shipment 'next Friday' but IBE has been saying this for weeks/months and we don't have confidence in what IBE tells us." I'm getting to the point where I am considering another AI, like Gaspari's Novedex XT. I really don't want to (I don't have confidence in Novedex XT), but if I want to start my cycle, IBE isn't giving me much choice. My humble question - when the #@$& is Formex actually shipping?!

3 - Similar question about X-Lean?

4 - Also - I think M16 stated in this thread that running a T booster was a good idea. Did you mean while on EPI or as part of the PCT? I assume a T booster run concurrently with EPI would increase results? Also, did you mean an AI as a T booster? What do you think about a T booster that I'd buy for my rats?

Thanks guys.

 

[ktatro1]

Taking it with fats should help increase absorption of the active compound in Epi. Your goals while on Epi should dictate your diet, but in a general sense, you probably want to restrict your simple carb intake, and any carbs you do should be good carbs (leafy greens, potatoes, oatmeal, etc.). Protien intake should be AT LEAST 1g per pound of body weight. Limit your fat intake, but also make sure that you are getting enough healthy fats. Very general I know but you can start there and tweak depending on what you want.

Obviously a rep could answer the questions you have better than I (especially your second, third and fourth), but I hope it helps.

 

[Hugo Danner]

Appreciate the response, but I am not looking for generic diet advice. My diet is solid. I was asking specifically about what to (or not to) ingest while on the EPI cycle (i.e. - cut out coffee? cut out milk products? Etc.) And, if EPI is to be taken with meals (would like this answered too), what if anything should definitely be ingested with the EPI (i.e. - fats, but assume this means not only omega supplements, but could also mean real foods containing good fats, such as walnuts or avocados or peanuts, etc.?).

Poduct availability is the other big question, as is the T booster question.

Thanks again for any help/advice.

 

[Hugo Danner]

By the way, to give you some idea of my diet and of why I'd much rather not use Gaspari products, I have re-printed a post I put on Gaspari's forum, which is a very stark and honest assessment of my experience with their Halodrol/Novedex XT stack:

--------

My workout partner and I are now finishing our seventh week on the Haladrol/Novedex/Size-On stack (the “Stack”). Before giving you our experience, here are some data points about us:

We are both life-time natural and have been working out together for about one and a half years. While I have lifted weights for over 10 years, I got very serious a year and a half ago, thanks in large part to my workout partner. He is a two-time Natural State champion and the overall winner of several events including a major east coast event (open to natural and non-natural competitors). I am 6’1”” tall and weigh 210. My partner is 5’7” and weighs 178. We are both in our very early thirties and have clean diets. We stopped taking all other supplements (Cellmass, BCAAs and ZMA) 5 months before starting the Stack to ensure an accurate baseline. We took no anti-inflammatories (like Advil, etc.) and kept as many things static as possible – to fully detect the affects of the Stack.

Our typical food intake is 6 or 7 real food meals per day. These meals are comprised of slow digesting carbs, protein and leafy greens – plus avocado and/or peanuts, pecans or walnuts for several meals throughout the day. Additionally, we take a fast digesting carb/protein isolate shake first thing in the morning and after workouts. Because we wanted to take the Stack exactly as recommended, we made sure that meals taken with Haladrol (7 a.m.; 2 p.m.; and 8 p.m. meals) included avocado and/or some nuts.

Week 1 – 2 (on Haldrol and Size-On). Neither of us experienced any results. Reps and weights remained perfectly static. I’ll qualify this by saying that the point of progressive weight training is to – over time – add a rep or 5 pounds to a given exercise. We experienced this typical and normal result. But to credit this to the Stack is to give the Stack undue credit, as these exact results are what we were experiencing from lifting weights with zero supplements.

Week 3 – 6 (on Haladrol, Novedex and Size-On). Neither of us experienced any results. Reps and weights remained perfectly static – with the same qualifier as above.

Week 7 (on Novedex and Size-On). Neither of us experienced any results. Reps and weights remained perfectly static – with the same qualifier as above.

Conclusion – not every product works for everyone. It could be that the Stack actually works, even if neither of us (with one of us being a very genetically gifted competitive bodybuilder) saw any results at all. Therefore, on a personal level, it was quite disappointing. It seems that any supplement – especially ones claiming to have extreme anabolic affects and to raise T-levels by up to 600% – would provide results that cannot be confused with normal ups/downs in a typical non-supplemented training regimen. Wish there were a true guarantee, as it is frustrating to put your faith in a name and product, spend well over $100 on it, take it exactly as recommended, and see zero results.

 

[Hugo Danner]

So...no replies at all from the IBE reps?

Would have expected a response especially on EPI ingestion (dos/don'ts), and on IBE product availability (Formex especially, and also X Lean). Is this info posted somewhere else, hence, the "no reply" treatment? If so, I couldn't locate it and would be grateful if you could at least point us in the right direction. Thanks.


Stester - my apologies, I don't mean to hijack your thread.

 

[strester]

Here is my latest revision ... just waiting on some Formex to arrive and I'll be good to go on this ... at least I think I will be

Load Phase
Week 1: AI Cycle Support (1 scoop/day)
Week 2: AI Cycle Support (1 scoop/day)

Cycle
Week 3: AI Cycle Support (2 scoop/day), IBE Epistane (10/20mg), IBE Formex (25mg), Taurine (6g)
Week 4: AI Cycle Support (2 scoop/day), IBE Epistane (30mg), IBE Formex (25mg), Taurine (6g)
Week 5: AI Cycle Support (2 scoop/day), IBE Epistane (30mg), IBE Formex (50mg), Taurine (6g)
Week 6: AI Cycle Support (2 scoop/day), IBE Epistane (40mg), IBE Formex (50mg), Taurine (6g)

PCT
Week 7 – 12: IBE Formex (IHP 25mg/75mg/25mg/...), AI Cycle Support (1 scoop/day)
Week 7: Tamoxifen Citrate 40mg, DS Lean Xtreme (4/day)
Week 8: Tamoxifen Citrate 40mg, DS Lean Xtreme (3/day)
Week 9: Tamoxifen Citrate 20mg, AI Post Cycle Support (2am/2pm), DS Lean Xtreme (2/day)
Week 10: Tamoxifen Citrate 20mg, AI Post Cycle Support (2am/2pm), DS Lean Xtreme (2/day)
Week 11: AI Post Cycle Support (2am/2pm), DS Lean Xtreme (2/day)
Week 12: AI Post Cycle Support (2am/2pm)

Other
Orange Triad (2 pills w/ 3meals/day)
Fish Oil (dosed with Epistane and a third meal each day)
Xtend
RPM or Purple Wraath (to combat any lethargy I may experience)
Whey
Food (clean)
Bulk Super Cissus (as needed)
Creatine Mono

 

[mrmiagi0101]

Hallo,
first sorry for my bad english, i'm from Germany.
I also want to start a cycle with epistane, 5 weeks. I did serveral cycles with Phs before (Superdrol, Tren, Havoc/Epistane, Bold, last was Phera Plex).
I read a lot about formex, and some people in this thread say with formex there is no need for nolva? So why do you dose tamoxifen so high when you take formex and Post Cycle Support?
I think something like 20/20/10/10 tamox schould be enough in combination with formex. But I'm just asking, don't knowing.

My Problem is that on higher dosages tamox (>20mg) i get bad headaches, I also tried Chlomid but the same. SO I hope with formex I can reduce the dosage for tamoxifen?

Cycle:
Week 1: IBE Epistane (10/20mg)
Week 2: IBE Epistane (30mg)
Week 3: IBE Epistane (30mg)
Week 4: IBE Epistane (30mg), Formex (25mg)
Week 5: IBE Epistane (40mg), Formex (50mg)

PCT:
Week 6: Formex (75mg), Tamoxifen (20mg)
Week 7: Formex (50mg), Tamoxifen (20mg)
Week 8: Formex (25mg), Tamoxifen (10mg), AI Post Cycle Support (4/day)
Week 9: Tamoxifen (10mg), AI Post Cycle Support (4/day)
Week 10: AI Post Cycle Support (4/day)
Week 11: AI Post Cycle Support (4/day)

What do you think about it? Is there something miss, or to much?

Would be Reversitol instead of AI Post Cycle Support in this case better?

 

[M16]

From personal Exp I always recommend a serm during PCT...IMO it is golden and is used my many world class Endocrinologist to help restore HPTA function...Problem being is that most dosing protocol's I have seen online are simply gross. 10mgs Of Tomax or 25mgs of clomid ED for 21-28 days should yield very little sides and greatly impact ones HPTA.

Formex/Formestane is a very potent steroidal AI and works great during a cycle and some like to include these during PCT...The trick too it is moderation as one does not want to push estrogen levels to low during PCT as it will hinder recovery and the PCT will in itself be futile.

 

[mrmiagi0101]

From personal Exp I always recommend a serm during PCT...IMO it is golden and is used my many world class Endocrinologist to help restore HPTA function...Problem being is that most dosing protocol's I have seen online are simply gross. 10mgs Of Tomax or 25mgs of clomid ED for 21-28 days should yield very little sides and greatly impact ones HPTA.

Formex/Formestane is a very potent steroidal AI and works great during a cycle and some like to include these during PCT...The trick too it is moderation as one does not want to push estrogen levels to low during PCT as it will hinder recovery and the PCT will in itself be futile.

ok, do you think my pct is ok. In my last pcts I always had just nolva (once Clomid) in it. With 40/30/20/10 and it woks great, but I got very bad headaches. I will give my pct a try, if nobody tells me that this is absolutely wrong way.
Thanks