[srx600]

I saw on the board where people have said mixing carbs with fats was a NO-NO. I have never separated them. My results have been nothing out of the ordinary though. Is this all dependent on the person? How does my plan look?

Here is a typical day, but I left out pre and post workout. These would come between meal 2 and 3 with high carb/pro and low fat.

Usually comes to 43/35/22 (carb/pro/fat).

Meal % carb/fat

1 48/19

2 45/21

3 44/22

4 40/25

5 32/32

6 10/45

[OCCFan023]

The whole macro nutrient splitting in meals (to a compulsive degree) is absolute BS imo. The belief that ingesting carbs with fat will cause the fat to automatically be stored as adipose due to an insulin spike is just wrong. Also I find it hilarious when individuals who promote this "fact" don't realize they themselves are over lapping meals (and there fore nutrients) from one meal to the next.

Total Macronutrient Breakdown and Energy Intake here














Precise Nutrient timing here...

Catch my drift lol?

[bolt10]

Originally Posted by OCCFan023

The whole macro nutrient splitting in meals (to a compulsive degree) is absolute BS imo. The belief that ingesting carbs with fat will cause the fat to automatically be stored as adipose due to an insulin spike is just wrong. Also I find it hilarious when individuals who promote this "fact" don't realize they themselves are over lapping meals (and there fore nutrients) from one meal to the next.

Total Macronutrient Breakdown and Energy Intake here

Precise Nutrient timing here...

Catch my drift lol?

I agree homie...while getting compulsive may benefit some(those who are the elite and already need every edge they can get), i don't feel it benefits the majority of people who get so compulsive about it

Edit: And don't read that as not having a strict diet(which i do) but going to certain degrees and over complicating things is what i am getting at

[OCCFan023]

Originally Posted by bolt10

I agree homie...while getting compulsive may benefit some(those who are the elite and already need every edge they can get), i don't feel it benefits the majority of people who get so compulsive about it

Edit: And don't read that as not having a strict diet(which i do) but going to certain degrees and over complicating things is what i am getting at

Yea dude. Aside from a select few (elite body builders, so on) the splitting hairs won't do much. However this is all held together by the fact that people adhere to the first principle of reaching their goals: total daily energy intake. Healthy food choices will get you there sooner and much more efficiently though.

Eat your broccoli people!!!!!!

Bolt you done with all your finals now/getting ready to get home and eat what you really want to lol?

[bolt10]

Originally Posted by OCCFan023

Yea dude. Aside from a select few (elite body builders, so on) the splitting hairs won't do much. However this is all held together by the fact that people adhere to the first principle of reaching their goals: total daily energy intake. Healthy food choices will get you there sooner and much more efficiently though.

Eat your broccoli people!!!!!!

Bolt you done with all your finals now/getting ready to get home and eat what you really want to lol?

haha yea man i am home now and i've enjoyed cooking my own food and what not. Today is my refeed so i am having extra fun after a week of dieting

[Nitrox]

Originally Posted by OCCFan023

The whole macro nutrient splitting in meals (to a compulsive degree) is absolute BS imo. The belief that ingesting carbs with fat will cause the fat to automatically be stored as adipose due to an insulin spike is just wrong. Also I find it hilarious when individuals who promote this "fact" don't realize they themselves are over lapping meals (and there fore nutrients) from one meal to the next.

QFT

Additionally, this whole ideology may be contibuting to unfounded carb aversion. By excluding fats and carbs from the same meals, one has to double up on the other in order to make up total calories. This leads to yo-yo macro intakes. No wonder people think they are carb sensitive...

[CryingEmo]

Originally Posted by Nitrox

QFT

Additionally, this whole ideology may be contibuting to unfounded carb aversion. By excluding fats and carbs from the same meals, one has to double up on the other in order to make up total calories. This leads to yo-yo macro intakes. No wonder people think they are carb sensitive...

I take it you aren't a fan of CKD/TKD diets?

[OCCFan023]

Originally Posted by Nitrox

QFT

Additionally, this whole ideology may be contibuting to unfounded carb aversion. By excluding fats and carbs from the same meals, one has to double up on the other in order to make up total calories. This leads to yo-yo macro intakes. No wonder people think they are carb sensitive...

Definitely true. Theres only so much time in the day to get down the total macro split that everyone so meticulously plans out.

Originally Posted by CryingEmo

I take it you aren't a fan of CKD/TKD diets?

I recently gave a strict CKD diet a try (still finding what works for myself) and absolutely hated it. I can firmly say a diet that is rich in all the macronutrient profiles to my liking with a adequate cal deficit is primo. I just can't agree with abolishing certain macros on the basis of it being the main culprit for prevention of fat loss (or gain in certain cases).

I do agree that certain restrictions of macros are effective though within reason. However this will also vary from individual to individual.

[Nitrox]

Originally Posted by CryingEmo

I take it you aren't a fan of CKD/TKD diets?

I have nothing against the diets themselves. In fact before switching to insulin, I had to do the low carb thing as a type-2. What I am not a fan of is the, IMO flawed, arguments that said diets are necessary and/or superior to diets that include moderate amounts of carbs for fat loss.

[CryingEmo]

Originally Posted by Nitrox

I have nothing against the diets themselves. In fact before switching to insulin, I had to do the low carb thing as a type-2. What I am not a fan of is the, IMO flawed, arguments that said diets are necessary and/or superior to diets that include moderate amounts of carbs for fat loss.

I think the two ideas are that you are supplying more cholesterol and fats, which is the hormonal advantage. Also, the low amount of carbs prevent insulin spikes as you know, and also allow growth hormone to be increased.

Your body prefers fat for fuel instead of carbs. This means you burn FFA's first. Even if both diets had equal calorie deficits, the higher carb diet would see you re-store those fats, when the deficet is presented again, your body will not use all fat for cals, it may tap into LBM. and glycogen before fat.. with CKD/TKD it is more likely to use fat over LBM.

[srx600]

I agree with the over complicated part. I used to try so hard to make everything in my diet PERFECT. So much that it was an obsession and when life would get in the way I would get extremely stressed that I wasn't on that perfect track. The result: I think the cortisol and stress from the compulsion was so great that it explains why my gains were ****.

Now I just go along with life and if I can't get it perfect it's no biggie. Just make the healthiest choice you can for the time. No use sabotaging your social life and happiness to be perfect. Being relaxed from not worrying will probably yield better gains than being perfect and stressed. I can attest to that myself. This change has made a world of difference.

[Steveoph]

Originally Posted by bolt10

haha yea man i am home now and i've enjoyed cooking my own food and what not. Today is my refeed so i am having extra fun after a week of dieting

Lol I got home 2 days ago and I feel like a vacuum cleaner. Our freezer has so much food in it that everybody has forgotten about, except I need to clear up space so I can bulk cook some Chili/Stew/Meatloaf etc so I've got a few more days of eating random junk.

[Nitrox]

Originally Posted by CryingEmo

I think the two ideas are that you are supplying more cholesterol and fats, which is the hormonal advantage.

IMO this is another erroneous theory made on the basis that if a deficiency in a particular nutrient leads to a deficiency in some metabolic process then a surplus in said nutrient will result in an extraordinary level of the same process. Other examples of this include chromium for blood sugar and protein for muscle growth.

An additional shortcoming of this theory is that carbs also have their advantages (fast burning fuel, micronutrient profile). By severly restricting them you are simply creating another deficiency.

The reality is that the body is primarily programmed for survival and consequently has 'governors' on most processes. If you want a hormonal advantage visit the steroid forum.

Originally Posted by CryingEmo

Also, the low amount of carbs prevent insulin spikes as you know, and also allow growth hormone to be increased.

Don't confuse insulin output for carbohydrate metabolism versus that for fat metabolism. What is an insulin spike anyway? 1 picomol/L? 10 picomol/L? Insulin management for non-diabetics is another bogus approach IMO. Sure its good to know that high calorie density, processed junk food messes with it but it is not readily quantifiable nor is it well understood. Energy intake on the other hand addresses the same problem and is quantifiable.

Originally Posted by CryingEmo

Your body prefers fat for fuel instead of carbs. This means you burn FFA's first. Even if both diets had equal calorie deficits, the higher carb diet would see you re-store those fats, when the deficet is presented again, your body will not use all fat for cals, it may tap into LBM. and glycogen before fat.. with CKD/TKD it is more likely to use fat over LBM.

I thought it was the reverse. Fat is a slow burning energy source; it cannot be used at high intensity activity levels. Glucose on the hand can be used at all levels.

Also, every time the body converts a macro to another (note this is one way only: protein -> carbs -> fats). It must used energy to do it. For the sake of efficiency (ie survival) the body will prefer to store carbs as glycogen. Fats since they cannot be converted backwards can only be stored as fat.

Anyhow, good debate - though I feel like this horse died a long time ago. Even if you don't buy all my arguments try and take away my point that most of these theories put forth by people (who btw usually stand to gain financially) usually only hold up to analysis when the context is sufficiently small. In the real world with all variables considered I think you're better off giving your body all the resources possible by eating a more balanced diet at an appropriate calorie level and letting