Workout and Meal Help
- 02-08-2008, 03:00 PM
Workout and Meal Help
*** Warning Long Thread***
I have been reading a lot of these threads for about a month now and I think i am more confused than when I started. There are a lot of contradictions.
I am 6'0" maybe 135 and 27y/o. I am really tired of being skinny. People feel bad picking on the fat guy but don't cared about picking on the skinny guy. I used to eat everything in sight (wicked high metabolism), but over the course of the past 8 years I've conditioned myself to not think about eating. I really want to change all that.
A couple other things about me, I'm willing to work to achieve what i want (ideally 175-185) but i tend to get a little frustrated if i don't see results. That's why I want to make sure I do things the right way so I am not wasting time/energy/money.
My questions are:
1. I'm planning on three full body workout days a week, can i increase that to 5, or add two days of cardio or is it counter productive?
2. I'm thinking about making my own shakes instead of buying a weight gainer. Here is what they consist of:
40grams Whey Isolate Protein
1/4 cup canola oil
1/2 cup oats
1T Udos essential oil
1gr Glutamine powder
2T either Honey or molasses
Milk/Water/Juice to get the shake to about 32 fluid oz
And that will be 4 times a day on top of trying to eat 3 meals regularly. What do you think?
3. Other supplements I'm thinking about are:
Black Hole (is it worth it? Test driving my shake/meal plan, its been hard to eat that much)
Enzymes (for digestion)
BCAAs (do i need to take them?)
BSN Cellmass (is it worth it?)
CoQ10 (cardiovascular health)
Nature's Way Alive Vitamins (any other recommendations)
4. With my plan how concerned should i be with my nitrogen balance? Should i supplement that also?
5. By consuming 200+ grams of protein should I be concerned with protecting my liver (I think) or by balancing it with my carb intake I will be fine?
6. I tend to like my carbs more than my proteins so my daily intake I think will look like 45% carbs 30-35% protein rest being fat? Is that conducive to my plan?
Thank you for putting up with this long thread. Any and all help will be grateful.
Your friendly neighborhood skinnyBAR10dr
- 02-08-2008, 11:01 PM
Here is some harsh, but needed advice.
You just need to eat. You THINK you eat a lot, but you don't. Trust me. All of my skinny friends seem to be the same way.
Here is some additional, easier to take, but solid advice:
- Count your calories. You will be surprised that you eat a lot less than you think.
- Finish everything you start to eat. (don't leave meals half done or just pick at them)
- Do no cardio. Its just going to be counterproductive.
- 200 Grams of protein won't hurt you.
- 45% carbs, 35% protein, 20% fat sounds perfect for you, as long as you are taking in 200-250 grams of protein. That means about 300 grams of carbs, and prob 60 grams of fat. Eat around 2700 calories a day until you start gaining mass. Then bump it up slightly. Don't let a day pass by when you don't get your 2700 calories.
- IMO, fullbody workouts tend to be better for losing weight. I would do a split routine where you do chest/triceps one day, back and biceps the other day, and legs on the third day. You need to let your muscles rest for around 7 days to allow them time to grow. A fullbody routine would probably be counterproductive.
- Eat at least SIX regular meals a day. (how else are you going to get your 2700 calories?) At your current weight, you need around 2200 calories just to maintain your weight. You need to eat at least 500 more calories a day to put on muscle. Almost no one that tries to build muscle eats only 3 meals a day, even when dieting!
- Honestly, don't worry about the supplements at this point. The only thing I would start with is Whey protein and some creatine monohydrate. Food alone will put on more muscle than any of those supplements.
- Don't worry about nitrogen balance. Your food intake will take care of that.
- Don't be afraid of cholesterol and saturated fat. Those are both used by your body to make testosterone.
You sir are in a lucky boat. Since you are so skinny, you can just eat heavy and lift hard and you will do nothing but put on muscle. You can bulk for a good long time before you would be considered 'fat'. Lucky bastard.
If you notice a theme of all the advice above. FOOD is all you need to put on some serious muscle and size. Just be consistent with your diet and your workouts.
I hope this helps. I'm always jealous of guys that start out skinny. You will get to see all the progress you are making because there is very little fat covering your muscle.
02-10-2008, 10:10 AM
I wouldnt worry about supplements right now. You need to focus on eating, and eating often. Make it a routine. I come from a similar background and once things become "scheduled" for me, I dont think about it anymore and things just become second nature.
Transformer more than meets the eye...
02-10-2008, 12:39 PM
i agree with the two above EAT ALOT and supp w/ mainly whey and creatine to start out with.
the clincher though is that I highly doubt you are used to eating the amount of food needed for weight gain. so don't be suprised if you have to force it down once in a while.--->i still have some trouble eating enough sometimes
the morning after a good workout is when I am most hungry and it's also a great time to eat ALOT!! like parents say, breakfast is one of the most important meals. so be sure to eat a generous helping of eggs, egg whites, whole wheat toast, oatmeal, bananas and such.
and right before you go to bed is also a great time to take in about 40-50 grams of protein and about 50-60g of carbs beacuse it will give your muscles nutrients over night.
eat alot, train hard, and don't give up. you'll get results
02-10-2008, 12:40 PM
Agreed. It may seem cumbersome to count calories and remember to eat all the time right now, but eventually you get into a routine and everything becomes automatic. You don't think about it anymore.
02-10-2008, 08:54 PM
I was in the same boat as you being an ectomorph. I was 115lbs when I graduated high school back in 99, but I have to admit I was more just young developmentally..not just skinny. I hit the gym hard and hit the stores to find all the best "bulking supplements" and after lots of years of wasted money I can give you an honest opinion. I'm 5'9" and 175lbs now.
There are only a few supplements that I would recommend and they are Creatine Monohydrate and Protein (whey and slower absorbing proteins). Maybe some NO2. Those have been the only supplements that I have found to work for myself and from what I hear lots of other Ectomorphs as well.
The biggest and best factor is FOOD. You really have to eat and eat more. You shouldnt even have time to look in the mirror and be depressed about no noticible gains...because you should be in the kitchen eating. Eat good bulking foods and try to avoid the crappy fast foods. Luckily you can eat some junk food and it probably wont affect much, but why eat junk when you could be eating something that will help build muscle? Cook in bulk and dip into the stash daily for smaller meals. Get your food consumption down to a science. Browse recipes on here and before you go to bed at night ask yourself "Did I eat enough today?"
Dont get a majority of your protein from shakes. 70% Food 30% Shakes. Take a slower absorbing protein right before bed. Your body regenerates muscle during Protein Synthesis, which occurs at night when you are in a deep sleep and hitting your high REMS. I take MHP's 12 Hour protein which is a whey, casein, soy blend. I will also have a few tablespoons of cottage cheese and a tablespoon of Natural Peanut Butter before I hit the rack.
Remember the weight gaining triangle (all parts are equally important) ...Workout Routine, Nutrition, and Sleep. Try to get at least a solid 8 hours every night (almost impossible for anyone who works including myself). Sleep is your friend. You will know you are building muscle when your body craves power naps during the day...
Hopefully this helps a little. Let me know if you have any specific questions about anything.
02-10-2008, 09:05 PM
02-11-2008, 11:56 AM
I joined this site about a month ago now and have found it a brilliant resource centre. I too am in the skinny bracket and have also been looking to change that.
I have always ate well but never seen big gains! However after doing my research on this site and totting up the calories taken in and calories burned I discovered I was eating the exact correct amount just to mantain my weight.
Cutting a long storey short without changing my diet or meal plans too much I have gone from 11stone 6lb to 11stone 14lb in four weeks.
Three large home cooked meals a day consisting of meat and three veggys as I have always done. But now in between these three meals I now drink 2 weight gain shakes which total 950 calories a pop. Am now eating between 3000 and 4000k's a day
Like these guys say dont worry about supps at the moment just try and up your food intake thats what I have been doing.
At your size you can eat for America at the moment and just work out hard.
Another thing I will also say which was said by another member is try not to do full body workouts. You will lose weight this way as I found out and this is not what you want. I have been doing the below:
Mon: Tri's, Bi's, and shoulders
Wed: Legs, abs
Fri: Chest, back
You will do your own thing but you get the general idea. I have been doing 3 sets of 12 on each exercise.
TOP TIP: Buy a larger meal plate than your use to and in a little while you will adapt to these bigger portions
02-11-2008, 01:03 PM
Well man here is my advice because I was you back in the day. I now am 5.9 and solid 200lbs.
First off you need to split your workouts up if you want ot grow. Stick to basic lifting, bench, pullups, curls, etc. Just keep it heavy. You will benefit from this more than doing a whole body workout 3 times a week.
As far as food get a basic meal plan together. Do not worry about your liver with protein. You need to be up to at least 250 grams at your weight if you want to put on some size. With each meal you need to have allot of brown rice, oatmeal, sweet potatoes, and so forth. Start by logi ging everything you do from eating, lifting, and cardio.
I myself suggest spend your money on food at this poont and do not use supplaments. Wait till your body has grown and then spend some cash and really see resutls
02-12-2008, 03:12 AM
Thanks for all the sage advice. I appreciate all the help. I'll probably have more questions down the road, with those I'll give an update on how I'm doing. Until then I'll be eating and eating some more. Thanks again.
02-12-2008, 12:19 PM
02-19-2008, 04:46 PM
unfortunately for in your case every 1 is right. when i first started to bulk and train hard i thought i was eating a sh** load, then when i got my first "bulking menu" my jaw dropped.
u want to set some things in your mind, before u start and i advise u to live by them:
1. as much as u eat u can always eat more. and do so!
2. try to eat every 2-3 hours.
3. start off at 3000-3500 cal. then once your putting that away easy bump it up to 4000 or get as close as u can to it.
4. train hard, get a work out plan/ schedule 5 times a week is great.
5. ditch all junk foods\drinks. no fast-food n crap. start eating healthy, plenty of water 3-5L or 1 galon a day. (never again use canola oil, lol VERY BAD for u, stick to organic Olive oil or coconut oil.)
6. carbs and protein are your 2 new best friends. (animals, milk, cheeses, eggs, pasta, potatoes, rise, WHOLE WHEAT BREAD etc)
7. dont forget your veggies and fruits also very important
8. natural juices are a PLUS, juice oranges and such
9. go ahead and buy a whey protein drink, not crap tho. ur better off with that then a self made protein drink. in the end it will cost more and its just a pain in the ass.
10. remember this if throughout the day you get hungry that means your not eating enough! never get hungry, and eat even when your not hungry!
11. never quit! it will be hard in the beginning but things will get easier in time, your stomach will expand and u will be able to consume more and more food. "never leave the last bite on your plate" and always take seconds!
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