Bulking on Low-Carb...2days/week re-feeds

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    Bulking on Low-Carb...2days/week re-feeds


    Starting about the 2nd week of may Im going to start bulking up. I have been doing the Ad & TKD diet now for a good while and really like it. I would like to do something like this for lean mass. Here's what I was thinking

    Sun: OFF Carb Load 500-600gr
    Mon: Hams/Bi's <30gr carbs
    Tue: Chest/Tris <30gr carbs
    Wed: OFF Carb Load 500-600gr carbs
    Thur: Quads/Abs <30gr Carbs
    Fri: Back/Shoulders <30gr carbs
    Sat: HIIT cardio 30min <30gr carbs

    I would do about 15 mins Low intensity cardio after each weights session.

    I'd start out @ around 3,500 cals and slowly progress to 4,000 etc.......On the re-feed days I'd probably hit close to 4,000 cals or 500 over my normal daily intake (depending how far into bulking I am).

    I'd be using some other supplements to help in the LBM department. My goal would be to put on ~15-20lbs of LBM in ~12weeks.

    What do you guys think?
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    Unless your sure you are 100% depleted after 2 days, I'd lower the carbs to between 300-400.

    Now if you're doing HIIT cardio and lifting intensely everyday, then sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    Unless your sure you are 100% depleted after 2 days, I'd lower the carbs to between 300-400.

    Now if you're doing HIIT cardio and lifting intensely everyday, then sure.
    yea maybe that is a bit high. I guess start low and work my way up huh?

    O, and hell's to the NO on HIIT everyday. One day a week will be Pleeeeeeenty enough for me thank you very much.
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    I have to bump this, I cant be below the guru's thread
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    Im looking to do the same on a CKD/AD diet in the coming months here, just picked up an ALRI stack + a few other goodies in preperation.

    What does your training schedule look like for your recomp/clean bulk Distilled? Do you plan on starting a log to track the progress because I would be interested in seeing how well this plan works for you ( as I need to figure out something for myself very soon ).
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDF View Post
    Im looking to do the same on a CKD/AD diet in the coming months here, just picked up an ALRI stack + a few other goodies in preperation.

    What does your training schedule look like for your recomp/clean bulk Distilled? Do you plan on starting a log to track the progress because I would be interested in seeing how well this plan works for you ( as I need to figure out something for myself very soon ).
    Yea I will log it for sure. That way I can look back and see what I was doing and if it workd well or not. I put my training schedule in my 1st post but if you mean what exercises and sets, I can post that if you'd like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Yea I will log it for sure. That way I can look back and see what I was doing and if it workd well or not. I put my training schedule in my 1st post but if you mean what exercises and sets, I can post that if you'd like.
    Ya please do, I have been doing a 5 day split for the last like 8months so im in desperate need of a change here. I still see decent gains because I change up my rep ranges all the time but I still think moving to down to say a 4 day split (push/pull) would be more beneficial than staying on the same beat'en path.

    I'm glad you started this thread 'cuz I was really was not sure on how I was going to try and recomp/clean bulk while on CKD.
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    Monday:Hams/Bi's
    Ham/Glute
    Wide Stance Squats
    3sets @ 12,10,8

    Stiff Leg Dead Liftis
    3sets @ 10,8,6

    Good Mornings
    2sets @ 12,10
    -SuperSet-
    Leg Curl
    2sets @ 12,10

    Biceps

    Barbell Curls
    3sets @ 12,10,8

    Close Grip Preacher Curls
    3sets @ 12,10,8

    Incline DB Curls
    3sets @ 12,10,8

    Tuesday: Chest/Tri's
    Chest
    Incline BB Bench
    3sets @ 12,10,8

    Flat BB Bench
    3sets @ 12,10,8

    Weighted Dips
    2sets @ 12,10

    Flat DB Fly
    2sets @ 12,10

    Tricep's
    Straight Bar Skull Crushers
    3sets @ 10,8,6

    DB overhead extensions
    3sets @ 12,10,8

    Single Arm Reverse Grip Push Downs
    2sets @ 12,10

    Thursday: Quads & Abs
    Quads
    Narrow Stance Squat
    4sets @ 12,10,8,6

    Front Squats
    4sets @ 15,12,10,8

    Leg Extensions
    2sets @ 12,10

    Single Leg Extensions
    2sets @ 15,12

    Abs
    Leg Lifts on Bench
    3sets

    Rope Crunches
    3sets

    Weighted Decline Bench Sit Ups
    3sets

    Friday: Back/Shoulders
    Shoulders
    DB Presses or Standing Overhead Press
    3sets @ 12,10,8

    Side Laterals
    3sets @ 12,10,8

    Front Raises
    3sets @ 12,10,8

    Lateral Raise to chin
    3sets @ 12,10,8

    Back
    Bent Over BB or T-Bar Row
    3sets @ 10,8,6

    Neutral Grip Lat Pull Down
    2sets @ 10,8

    V-Bar Row
    2sets @ 10,8

    Straight Arm Push Down
    2set @ 15

    Traps
    Some type Shrug
    5-6sets

    Friday is going to be a tough day thats for sure
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    DW, just my opinion but I think the calories on low carb days are awfully low. I know I've seen DiPasquale recommend 25x DESIRED bwt in cals during the off days. The carb loads are probably the most individual aspect. For me that amount of carbs would work fine but maybe too much for another, so the recommendation to start lower and work your way up while listening to your body is great advice.

    Also, 15-20 lbs LBM is a bit much to expect in 12 weeks unless you're quite new, in my opinion, especially with calories as low as you have.

    Lower carb eating is cool for gaining clean mass, however you have to make darn sure that you eat a LOT of calories and protein. I'd work up to that 25x desired bwt in calories and eat an absolute bare minimum of 1.5g/lb protein, but I'd shoot more for 2-2.25g/lb. And just a mildly educated guess that you should probably take Betaine HCl as needed after the first couple bites of your meals with all this protein. Stomach acid deficiencies is quite common and you're not going to pack on mass without digesting the food.

    And by the way, experience from myself and others backs up the old advice from Vince Gironda that 1-3 dozen raw blended eggs per day is very anabolic. You could do this for 8-12 weeks to really help with calories and packing on the mass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil5585 View Post
    DW, just my opinion but I think the calories on low carb days are awfully low. I know I've seen DiPasquale recommend 25x DESIRED bwt in cals during the off days. The carb loads are probably the most individual aspect. For me that amount of carbs would work fine but maybe too much for another, so the recommendation to start lower and work your way up while listening to your body is great advice.

    Also, 15-20 lbs LBM is a bit much to expect in 12 weeks unless you're quite new, in my opinion, especially with calories as low as you have.

    Lower carb eating is cool for gaining clean mass, however you have to make darn sure that you eat a LOT of calories and protein. I'd work up to that 25x desired bwt in calories and eat an absolute bare minimum of 1.5g/lb protein, but I'd shoot more for 2-2.25g/lb. And just a mildly educated guess that you should probably take Betaine HCl as needed after the first couple bites of your meals with all this protein. Stomach acid deficiencies is quite common and you're not going to pack on mass without digesting the food.

    And by the way, experience from myself and others backs up the old advice from Vince Gironda that 1-3 dozen raw blended eggs per day is very anabolic. You could do this for 8-12 weeks to really help with calories and packing on the mass.
    Thanks bro. See this is why i need help,lol. Bulking on this diet is very new to me. I just looked back and when I transitioned to AD I was doing 3,500~3,750 cals and was losing weight so what your saying makes sense. I'm going to do the velocity diet for 2 weeks prior to this plan to help start as lean as possible. A week to transition back to whole foods then start this plan.

    I could very easily polish of 4,500cals/day (about 25xbodyweight) I was going to shoot for a little higher protein like you mentioned, if I posted lower amounts of protein intake than I didn't mean too and Ill look back and fix it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    I could very easily polish of 4,500cals/day (about 25xbodyweight) I was going to shoot for a little higher protein like you mentioned, if I posted lower amounts of protein intake than I didn't mean too and Ill look back and fix it.

    The recommendation from DiPasquale was 25x *desired* bodyweight bro. If you're 180 and want to put on 20 lbs of lean mass, you can assume that it's not going to be 100% lean bulking. So let's just say you want to get up to 205-210 to get that 20 lbs of lean mass (however long it takes to do it). That's up to about 5,250 calories per day there. BUT, work your way up. You're more likely to get fat from overdoing carb loads than overdoing low carb days, though. I like Anabolic Pump or P-Slin for the carbs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil5585 View Post
    The recommendation from DiPasquale was 25x *desired* bodyweight bro. If you're 180 and want to put on 20 lbs of lean mass, you can assume that it's not going to be 100% lean bulking. So let's just say you want to get up to 205-210 to get that 20 lbs of lean mass (however long it takes to do it). That's up to about 5,250 calories per day there. BUT, work your way up. You're more likely to get fat from overdoing carb loads than overdoing low carb days, though. I like Anabolic Pump or P-Slin for the carbs.
    O ok, I got you.

    I'm sitting on 2 bottles of AP, 25gr of YG, and 23caps P-Slin

    Well hows this sound for cals, If I start from 180lbs....

    Week 1-3: 4,500
    Week 4-6: 4,750
    Week 7-9: 5,000
    Week 10-12: 5,250
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    I think I'd taper up the calories faster than that given your supplements. I may even go higher in cals if tolerated with the supplements to make sure they can do what they're supposed to do.
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    Bump every 10days-2 weeks or so and work my way up to 5,500cals!!!! Wow.

    I just pickd up some NOW Betaine HCl, and Biotin. So I dont forget when May rolls around.
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    I really want to try and bulk on a CKD diet but im not sure that I can eat that much food

    I really have trouble putting down 3500 kals
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    I have no problem killing 8oz Ground Sirlon with some mozzerella(sp?) and 2TBS EVOO,52f/50p/1c & ~675cals of pure CKD goodness

    bump for any more input.
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    BCAAs would be great for a low carb bulker at 0.44g/kg divided up between meals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil5585 View Post
    BCAAs would be great for a low carb bulker at 0.44g/kg divided up between meals.
    too bad they taste like death. I'm sitting on ~500gr BCAA so bring on the BCAA
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    Xtend and Purple Wrath are both freaking awsome!!!

    I have some bulk BCAA's that I think I might start adding to the Xtend, hopefully it wont ruin the taste

    ***EDIT*** at .44g/lb of body weight I would need about 100g of BCAAs a day, I was thinking about dosing in the 20-30g a day range, will this be to much of an under dose or do you think i will still get the results?

    -12g preWO
    -12g duringWO
    -12g postWO or a whey protein shake
    Last edited by JDF; 02-14-2008 at 01:42 PM. Reason: because I can =p
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDF View Post
    Xtend and Purple Wrath are both freaking awsome!!!

    I have some bulk BCAA's that I think I might start adding to the Xtend, hopefully it wont ruin the taste
    Yea I have both of the above mentioned. And yes they do both taste yummy.

    The only real problem is that the bulk stuff mix like crap. Adding some Lemon juice should change the ph enough so that they go into solution better. I think I tried this but dont remember how it turned out. Then I can get exactly 3gr inbetween my 7-8 meals,21gr BCAA, and then 15gr during my workout giveing me 36gr for the day. 81.8kg(180lbs)*.44=~36grBCAA

    Then add about 1gr BCAA/week as I keep gaining lean mass
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    Was tweaking cals and came up with this

    Week 1-2: 4,500
    Week 3-4: 5,000
    Week 5-6: 5,250
    Week 7-8: 5,500
    Week 9-10: 5,250
    Week 11-12: 5,250

    Bolded weeks are special weeks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Yea I have both of the above mentioned. And yes they do both taste yummy.

    The only real problem is that the bulk stuff mix like crap. Adding some Lemon juice should change the ph enough so that they go into solution better. I think I tried this but dont remember how it turned out. Then I can get exactly 3gr inbetween my 7-8 meals,21gr BCAA, and then 15gr during my workout giveing me 36gr for the day. 81.8kg(180lbs)*.44=~36grBCAA

    Then add about 1gr BCAA/week as I keep gaining lean mass

    So your taking about 3g inbetween all of your meals? I already bring a huge grocery bag of food to work everyday, I think i'd need a duffel bag haha.

    People look at me strange in my office because im constantly pee'ing ( like an old man with an enlarged prostate - im up every 30 minutes ), eating something, or slamming a protein shake.

    With the bulk BCAA's how much lemon juice did you use? Isnt that pretty much just fructose and that would effect your daily intake for CHO, or do you just factor that into your daily CHO intake? This sounds interesting to me as I may give it a go since I have a sh!t-ton of bulk just laying around, I'd just have to invest in like 6 more mixing bottles

    Maybe I missed it somewhere distilled but what is the stack your looking to run with this clean bulk? Im going to run the ALRI stack when I finally decide to do mine
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDF View Post
    So your taking about 3g inbetween all of your meals? I already bring a huge grocery bag of food to work everyday, I think i'd need a duffel bag haha.

    People look at me strange in my office because im constantly pee'ing ( like an old man with an enlarged prostate - im up every 30 minutes ), eating something, or slamming a protein shake.

    With the bulk BCAA's how much lemon juice did you use? Isnt that pretty much just fructose and that would effect your daily intake for CHO, or do you just factor that into your daily CHO intake? This sounds interesting to me as I may give it a go since I have a sh!t-ton of bulk just laying around, I'd just have to invest in like 6 more mixing bottles

    Maybe I missed it somewhere distilled but what is the stack your looking to run with this clean bulk? Im going to run the ALRI stack when I finally decide to do mine
    I just squeeze a little in there. IDK how much really. It was when I wasn't doing a CKD so I didn't care,lol. I'd have too look at what the carb content really is. I'm only at about 12-15carbs/day so I have a nice buffer I can play with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDF View Post

    ***EDIT*** at .44g/lb of body weight I would need about 100g of BCAAs a day, I was thinking about dosing in the 20-30g a day range, will this be to much of an under dose or do you think i will still get the results?

    Grams per KILOGRAM bodyweight, not per pound. If you're looking for mass gains I don't think I'd bother dosing much under that.
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    Man, just did some calculations for the 5,500 cal weeks

    Fat: 400gr @ 68%
    Protein:415gr @ 30%
    Carbs: <30gr @ ~2%
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    HOLY JEEBUS, have you figured out what a daily meal is going to look like???
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDF View Post
    HOLY JEEBUS, have you figured out what a daily meal is going to look like???
    Yeppers

    I'll eat 8 meals of about 50gr fat, 45gr protein.

    Post workout will be 50gr shake with ~10gr fat added in.

    8 real meals and 1 shake. I figured I'll be going thru ~8dozen eggs, 7lbs ground chuck, and 25 chicken breast (5oz form GFS) per week
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Yeppers

    I'll eat 8 meals of about 50gr fat, 45gr protein.

    Post workout will be 50gr shake with ~10gr fat added in.

    8 real meals and 1 shake. I figured I'll be going thru ~8dozen eggs, 7lbs ground chuck, and 25 chicken breast (5oz form GFS) per week
    How much you figure thats gonna cost you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoidRageX10 View Post
    How much you figure thats gonna cost you?
    The ground beef is about $15 for 5.5lbs
    The bag of chicken is $12
    15 dozen eggs are like $12 I think, not real sure.
    The 3l of EVOO is $22

    So thats gonna run about $175 month for food. Not terrible
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    The ground beef is about $15 for 5.5lbs
    The bag of chicken is $12
    15 dozen eggs are like $12 I think, not real sure.
    The 3l of EVOO is $22

    So thats gonna run about $175 month for food. Not terrible
    Very nice. I need to look my grocery bill. I think me and my mom spend to much. lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoidRageX10 View Post
    Very nice. I need to look my grocery bill. I think me and my mom spend to much. lol.
    Yea I was getting chicken and eggs at wal-mart then looked at it and i was spending waaay more than i needed. Now I go to Gordens Food Service. They have good prices on fish too, too bad i hate fish
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Yea I was getting chicken and eggs at wal-mart then looked at it and i was spending waaay more than i needed. Now I go to Gordens Food Service. They have good prices on fish too, too bad i hate fish
    I wish I had one of those around here. I think I'm going to have my mom shop at Costco's though to buy bulk everything.
    There is a save-a-lot, but it isn't that good.
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    Just curious in the weight, height , and bf%???
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    Quote Originally Posted by Link24 View Post
    Just curious in the weight, height , and bf%???
    5'9" 185lbs 10%BF
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    I'd like to get to 200lbs and stay at 10%BF by septemberish
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    ah cool, I'm glad someone else is doing this. I myself, am an endo/meso, so I pretty much do lower carb diets year 'round. But when I want to put on some weight, I pretty much do what you are wanting to do, but on my carb up days, I take glucophage with every meal, helps a lot! Anyway, best of luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarconis View Post
    ah cool, I'm glad someone else is doing this. I myself, am an endo/meso, so I pretty much do lower carb diets year 'round. But when I want to put on some weight, I pretty much do what you are wanting to do, but on my carb up days, I take glucophage with every meal, helps a lot! Anyway, best of luck.
    glucophage...thats a prescription for diabetics right?

    How's this plan work out for ya?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    glucophage...thats a prescription for diabetics right?

    How's this plan work out for ya?
    it is, but is easily available from any overseas pharmacy and customs rarely snags it, and if they do, its no biggie just reorder. The diet works very well and very easy way for me to gain weight and keep the waist line in check.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarconis View Post
    it is, but is easily available from any overseas pharmacy and customs rarely snags it, and if they do, its no biggie just reorder. The diet works very well and very easy way for me to gain weight and keep the waist line in check.
    Cool cool. Thats what I thought but was just double checking.

    I have 2 full bottles of Anabolic Pump, 25caps P-Slin and close to 150gr of Yellow Gold I think that should do me for now. I'll look into the glucophage
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    Yea I just looked at my Digestive Enzyme Blend from NOW and see that it has a heft dose of Betaine HCL 200mg. O'well
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