Can I get some Advice on taking Havoc/4-AD

[Cogent]

Hi there,

I have been Powerlifting mainly for about 8 months, have some decent lifts:

385 Bench, 515 Deadlift & Squat...

I was at 237-241.5 lbs at 5'10", not real fat, but not lean either. Maybe 20%+ bodyfat.

Found Venom Hyperdrive 3.0 and went down to 216 in about 3 weeks. Stopped working, now I can take 3 Venoms at once and get absolutely nothing. I got Atro-Phex thinking I'd switch over, but it is even weaker. Now I can take 3 Venoms and maybe 5-8 Atro-Phex and all I get is very, very dehydrated.

I don't get the appetite supression anymore, and I gained back to 220 quickly.

My muscles atrophied like a bastard, so now I am going to start eating again and take Havoc and 4-AD and Matrix 5.0 Protein, Eclipse Multivitamins.

I'm taking 6 Havoc and 3 4-AD per day.

Today is my first day and I just did some light stuff in the gym,

300lb Deadlifts for about 5 sets of 12, Bent over rows with 225, Biceps, etc... Not noticing ****...

Pre-hormones are crap, aren't they? All this hype over them and it isn't ****.

I remember I took Sustanon, just one ampule and I felt like Superman almost immediately after injecting it.

I'm probably just going to crap out my liver from this stuff, huh. ?

Also; do any of these drugs I'm taking make you test positive on a Urinalysis? If anyone knows.

Hopefully someone more intelligent than I can help advise me on - what the hell am I asking, anyway?

Well let's see how the Pre-Hormone Anabolic Optimizer Optimizes my Hormones... Seems bogus to me.

 

[bpmartyr]

Hi there,

I have been Powerlifting mainly for about 8 months, have some decent lifts:

385 Bench, 515 Deadlift & Squat...

I was at 237-241.5 lbs at 5'10", not real fat, but not lean either. Maybe 20%+ bodyfat.

Found Venom Hyperdrive 3.0 and went down to 216 in about 3 weeks. Stopped working, now I can take 3 Venoms at once and get absolutely nothing. I got Atro-Phex thinking I'd switch over, but it is even weaker. Now I can take 3 Venoms and maybe 5-8 Atro-Phex and all I get is very, very dehydrated.

I don't get the appetite supression anymore, and I gained back to 220 quickly.

My muscles atrophied like a bastard, so now I am going to start eating again and take Havoc and 4-AD and Matrix 5.0 Protein, Eclipse Multivitamins.

I'm taking 6 Havoc and 3 4-AD per day.

Today is my first day and I just did some light stuff in the gym,

300lb Deadlifts for about 5 sets of 12, Bent over rows with 225, Biceps, etc... Not noticing ****...

Pre-hormones are crap, aren't they? All this hype over them and it isn't ****.

I remember I took Sustanon, just one ampule and I felt like Superman almost immediately after injecting it.

I'm probably just going to crap out my liver from this stuff, huh. ?

Also; do any of these drugs I'm taking make you test positive on a Urinalysis? If anyone knows.

Hopefully someone more intelligent than I can help advise me on - what the hell am I asking, anyway?

Well let's see how the Pre-Hormone Anabolic Optimizer Optimizes my Hormones... Seems bogus to me.

They are not "pre-hormones". One is an active steroid (Havoc) and the other is a "pro-hormone" which means that it becomes a steroid through enzymatic conversion.

I don't know what you are expecting. They do not work instantly. These are not stimulants.

1 amp of sust and you felt like Superman almost instantly? If only you realized how stupid that sounds. Sust is a blend of four esterfied testosterones, shortest of them being propianate which has a half life of like four days.

Do you and everyone else a favor and do some reading before posting ridiculous crap like this, please.

 

[zootreeves]

I'm probably just going to crap out my liver from this stuff, huh. ?

Yes at 60mg/day

You probably won't notice the effects until at least a week in

 

[MESSPLAY]

They are not "pre-hormones". One is an active steroid (Havoc) and the other is a "pro-hormone" which means that it becomes a steroid through enzymatic conversion.

I don't know what you are expecting. They do not work instantly. These are not stimulants.

1 amp of sust and you felt like Superman almost instantly? If only you realized how stupid that sounds. Sust is a blend of four esterfied testosterones, shortest of them being propianate which has a half life of like four days.

Do you and everyone else a favor and do some reading before posting ridiculous crap like this, please.

 

[Cogent]

They are not "pre-hormones". One is an active steroid (Havoc) and the other is a "pro-hormone" which means that it becomes a steroid through enzymatic conversion.

I don't know what you are expecting. They do not work instantly. These are not stimulants.

1 amp of sust and you felt like Superman almost instantly? If only you realized how stupid that sounds. Sust is a blend of four esterfied testosterones, shortest of them being propianate which has a half life of like four days.

Do you and everyone else a favor and do some reading before posting ridiculous crap like this, please.

Sorry about the ridiculous crap.

I am changing my regimen of Havoc/4-AD to:

7 Havoc & 6 4-AD per day.

I just remember taking a bunch of Dianabol and feeling a definate 'high' of some sort about 30 minutes after taking them. That and a noticable difference in my workouts.

I guess I was expecting to feel like my testosterone was increased, but I don't really feel anything.

I've felt more pumped from NO Xplode and Gainers than this.

Maybe I'll feel differently in a week, just not sure why it should take weeks to see or feel anything from these.

Also (if anyone wants to respond to my idiotic post at all), if someone knows the answer to these questions;

Should I keep taking Venom Hyperdrive or Fat burners in general with Prohormones or is this counterproductive?

I know I see that people say not to take Creatine with Prohormones, but how can it really hurt? What is this 'back pumps' that I hear about? Aren't back pumps a good thing?

Are you supposed to take these pro-hormones with a lot of food or on an empty stomach? Does it matter? I don't see this information listed anywhere.

In comparison to real steroids, how effective is Havoc? So many people I see in their logs how it takes like 2-3 weeks for any real effects to happen. Why not just do some 1-AD and some M1T too? What are methyl's anyway? Why did I get a D in Chemistry?

OK, if that's not enough to get me banned from this message board... j/k :frustrate

 

[zootreeves]

Sorry about the ridiculous crap.

I am changing my regimen of Havoc/4-AD to:

7 Havoc & 6 4-AD per day.

7 Havoc is nearly twice the recommended maximum dosage, methyls are notoriously hard on the liver. I really wouldn't recommend it if it's your first methyl cycle. (methlys are 17 alpha-alkylated so they can withstand the liver first pass, also making them toxic). I would have thought with a dosage this high with the suppression to your natural test levels it will do the opposite of what you want and make you lethargic.

If the 4-AD is by AMS it's just DHEA and proably won't do to much. If it's the original 4-AD (4-androstenediol) a dosage of about 1500mg/day could give you this stimulation your looking for.

1) I personally wouldn't, Keep it simple then if something goes wrong it's easier to find the cause. Up to you really
2) Creatine just adds extra stess on the liver, no it won't matter too much
3) Pain/Tightening in your lower back
4) You could consider it a good thing since you know it's working, but in severe cases can be very painful and make it hard to walk (I have no experience with these personally)
5) With food
6) No
7) Not sure, Look at the logs
8) Hell why not through in some MethlyTest, Anadrol and Superdrol. Too many orals = liver death
9) Answered above
10) Because you write stupid posts like these?

Why not just stick with Sust and Dbol if they have worked for you before? Injectables are safer and more effective. Also Off topic, but do you have a post cycle therapy planned?

 

[Cogent]

7 Havoc is nearly twice the recommended maximum dosage, methyls are notoriously hard on the liver. I really wouldn't recommend it if it's your first methyl cycle. (methlys are 17 alpha-alkylated so they can withstand the liver first pass, also making them toxic). I would have thought with a dosage this high with the suppression to your natural test levels it will do the opposite of what you want and make you lethargic.

If the 4-AD is by AMS it's just DHEA and proably won't do to much. If it's the original 4-AD (4-androstenediol) a dosage of about 1500mg/day could give you this stimulation your looking for.

1) I personally wouldn't, Keep it simple then if something goes wrong it's easier to find the cause. Up to you really
2) Creatine just adds extra stess on the liver, no it won't matter too much
3) Pain/Tightening in your lower back
4) You could consider it a good thing since you know it's working, but in severe cases can be very painful and make it hard to walk (I have no experience with these personally)
5) With food
6) No
7) Not sure, Look at the logs
8) Hell why not through in some MethlyTest, Anadrol and Superdrol. Too many orals = liver death
9) Answered above
10) Because you write stupid posts like these?

Why not just stick with Sust and Dbol if they have worked for you before? Injectables are safer and more effective. Also Off topic, but do you have a post cycle therapy planned?

Thanks for the advice. Yes, it's the crap AMS 4-AD. I don't know where to get real 4-AD.

Maybe just take the dose of Havoc to 6 per day? I see on other posts that some took 6 per day and weren't all that impressed with the results.

How about just eating Milk Thistle, lots of meat, vegetables, oats, fruit, water... And how about 5-6 bananas per day for Potassium... Then after I'm done just taking ALRI's Restore by itself for a whole bottle?

Thanks for replying to my ignorant post. Maybe Havoc will be badass and I can help promote it for RPN with my personal testimony.

 

[Cogent]

7 Havoc is nearly twice the recommended maximum dosage, methyls are notoriously hard on the liver. I really wouldn't recommend it if it's your first methyl cycle. (methlys are 17 alpha-alkylated so they can withstand the liver first pass, also making them toxic). I would have thought with a dosage this high with the suppression to your natural test levels it will do the opposite of what you want and make you lethargic.

If the 4-AD is by AMS it's just DHEA and proably won't do to much. If it's the original 4-AD (4-androstenediol) a dosage of about 1500mg/day could give you this stimulation your looking for.

1) I personally wouldn't, Keep it simple then if something goes wrong it's easier to find the cause. Up to you really
2) Creatine just adds extra stess on the liver, no it won't matter too much
3) Pain/Tightening in your lower back
4) You could consider it a good thing since you know it's working, but in severe cases can be very painful and make it hard to walk (I have no experience with these personally)
5) With food
6) No
7) Not sure, Look at the logs
8) Hell why not through in some MethlyTest, Anadrol and Superdrol. Too many orals = liver death
9) Answered above
10) Because you write stupid posts like these?

Why not just stick with Sust and Dbol if they have worked for you before? Injectables are safer and more effective. Also Off topic, but do you have a post cycle therapy planned?

Hehe, I notice your PR on bench is 225x6 or something. I have done 225 for 32 reps continuously and I still could have done a few more. Of course I was mowing the creatine and weight gainers and was 240lbs, and looked nothing like your picture. I looked bloated as hell. Can Havoc top Creatine/Weight Gainers, we'll see... Maybe I'll be doing 315 bench for 32 reps soon.

 

[zootreeves]

Hehe, I notice your PR on bench is 225x6 or something. I have done 225 for 32 reps continuously and I still could have done a few more. Of course I was mowing the creatine and weight gainers and was 240lbs, and looked nothing like your picture. I looked bloated as hell. Can Havoc top Creatine/Weight Gainers, we'll see... Maybe I'll be doing 315 bench for 32 reps soon.

Well i don't pretend to be a power lifter. Obviously there is going to be a difference between someone who is 240lb and someone 180lb. Especially if you've used real ASS in the past

I think the people who are not impressed with running havoc at 60mg have used the real deal in the past and expect the same results. You won't get the same results you got with sust and dbol, but you can definitely expect more than from just creatine/weight gainer alone (You should still take the weight gainer on cycle)

Then after I'm done just taking ALRI's Restore by itself for a whole bottle?

If you want to keep your gains, you really need a SERM. Read the bit about post cycle therapy here http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/77359-neoborns-epistane-faq.html

 

[Cogent]

Well i don't pretend to be a power lifter. Obviously there is going to be a difference between someone who is 240lb and someone 180lb. Especially if you've used real ASS in the past

I think the people who are not impressed with running havoc at 60mg have used the real deal in the past and expect the same results. You won't get the same results you got with sust and dbol, but you can definitely expect more than from just creatine/weight gainer alone (You should still take the weight gainer on cycle)


If you want to keep your gains, you really need a SERM. Read the bit about post cycle therapy here http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/77359-neoborns-epistane-faq.html

Yeah, not trying to be a ****. I might be strong, but I don't look like you do. I'd actually rather lift jack **** and look like you instead of what I look like . I can't cut up easily, it's lame. I guess that would make me an extreme endomorph. I can cut up with lots of ephedra. Like 3 times my body weights worth of it for a few months.

I experimented with 1 amp of sust and before that 3-5 dianabols before workouts. Not for anything longer than maybe a month. That was 8 years ago. So I haven't really tried ASS really.

All I know is that with 1 amp of Sust, I went from 225 to 245 in a week. A lot of it was bloat, but some was muscle.

Day 2 of Havoc, and I will say I do think I am gaining size... I'll let you know at the end of the week.

 

[Cogent]

OK, 4th day on Havoc 7 per day, 4-AD 6 per day. 3 Milk Thistles per day. I still think it's bogus crap, but today is bench day, we'll see if I'm repping 315 for 15 reps. Maybe I should get some real gear...

 

[LilPsychotic]

Sorry about the ridiculous crap.

I am changing my regimen of Havoc/4-AD to:

7 Havoc & 6 4-AD per day.

I just remember taking a bunch of Dianabol and feeling a definate 'high' of some sort about 30 minutes after taking them. That and a noticable difference in my workouts.

I guess I was expecting to feel like my testosterone was increased, but I don't really feel anything.

I've felt more pumped from NO Xplode and Gainers than this.

Maybe I'll feel differently in a week, just not sure why it should take weeks to see or feel anything from these.

Also (if anyone wants to respond to my idiotic post at all), if someone knows the answer to these questions;

Should I keep taking Venom Hyperdrive or Fat burners in general with Prohormones or is this counterproductive?

I know I see that people say not to take Creatine with Prohormones, but how can it really hurt? What is this 'back pumps' that I hear about? Aren't back pumps a good thing?

Are you supposed to take these pro-hormones with a lot of food or on an empty stomach? Does it matter? I don't see this information listed anywhere.

In comparison to real steroids, how effective is Havoc? So many people I see in their logs how it takes like 2-3 weeks for any real effects to happen. Why not just do some 1-AD and some M1T too? What are methyl's anyway? Why did I get a D in Chemistry?

OK, if that's not enough to get me banned from this message board... j/k :frustrate

It sounds to me that you just want to get high. Do yourself a favor, and drop the havoc and 4-ad because your being totally irresponsible. But I'm tired of preaching to people about this, do what you want. But when you have serious health probs, like the anus who took back to back bottles of superdrol while drinking and taking vicodin, don't say you haven't been warned.