Looking for people who have Bulked using CKD/TKD.

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    Looking for people who have Bulked using CKD/TKD.


    Anyone use CKD, or TKD for mass gaining? What were your results? Is it something you would do again, or just stick to a more traditional approach?

    I am currently on a 10day break from the gym, and started CKD, at just under maintence. When i get back i am trying to decide if i should resume my normal "bulking" diet, or give CKD A go. I figured in these 10days, it would give my body ample time to see how i felt on no carbs..

    Any help would be much appreciated.

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    I can get up to about 2,700 calories on a pure keto diet. Sadly, I need 3,500 to gain, so the rest of it has to come from carbs.

    I would say that if you are capable of getting enough calories for bulking without carbs, then there is no reason NOT to do it.

    Every aspect of low-carb diets that makes them great for cutting, also makes them great for clean bulking. The diet is highly anabolic and will raise your T levels in no time.

    If your body is already adjusted to keto, you shouldn't have any of the normal transition problems that people experience.

    If you have energy problems, take B-vitamins. Sodium intake tends to run high on low-carb diet, so you'll want to increase your water intake in order to offset water retention.
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    Thanks for the reply.

    I am getting 2700 cals no problem right now...lol I can see myself easily getting down 4k cals on this diet..

    I just wonder if i will make mass gains on a carb depleted diet. I have always been on the thought process of "ya need carbs to gain mass" So this is hard for me to get past.

    As for the transition.. That was my exact reason for trying this now on my 10day break.. I figured i could see how i feel, make the transition, and be ready to go come training time.

    Honestly so far i feel totally fine. No real sides that some notice on CKD.
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    I would love to see how you go on this...
    Just make sure your refeeds are awesome, you will soon notice if you are not (you will feel weak in the legs and you will lift like ****).
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    Quote Originally Posted by nelix View Post
    I would love to see how you go on this...
    Just make sure your refeeds are awesome, you will soon notice if you are not (you will feel weak in the legs and you will lift like ****).
    Thanks for the advice.. I was thinking of starting my refeeds saturday mid day(3pm) and doing them untill about 5pm sunday. But with that said should i be eating normal pro/fat meals before my refeeds start sat, and after they end sunday?

    I just can't decide if i want to commit to trying this or not.. I would hate to be spinning my wheels for a month or so, when i could be making good gains..

    I can normally gain at about 3200-3500, so i wouldn't see not making progress getting down 4k cals, no carb. With refeeds.

    Any advice from experienced CKD/TKD'ers is appreciated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    Thanks for the advice.. I was thinking of starting my refeeds saturday mid day(3pm) and doing them untill about 5pm sunday. But with that said should i be eating normal pro/fat meals before my refeeds start sat, and after they end sunday?

    I just can't decide if i want to commit to trying this or not.. I would hate to be spinning my wheels for a month or so, when i could be making good gains..

    I can normally gain at about 3200-3500, so i wouldn't see not making progress getting down 4k cals, no carb. With refeeds.

    Any advice from experienced CKD/TKD'ers is appreciated.
    I'm on a CKD right now (first timer), and let me tell you the inital adjustment can be rough. I wouldn't base how you will feel on the diet on your first day assessment - i would hedge my bets that you would have negative feedback. Just ride it out if you go down this path - once adjusted it's awesome (at least for me). Caveat emptor.
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    Do a partial Keto diet in which you limit carbs to immediately post workout and for the 4 to 6 hours following the workout. That's what I'm doing right now - with a few other specifications - and I love it.
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    Also medium chain triglyceride's (from virgin coconut oil) can help with stamina.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beallio View Post
    I'm on a CKD right now (first timer), and let me tell you the inital adjustment can be rough. I wouldn't base how you will feel on the diet on your first day assessment - i would hedge my bets that you would have negative feedback. Just ride it out if you go down this path - once adjusted it's awesome (at least for me). Caveat emptor.
    I am on day 2 right now and i feel totally normal.. I am a lil hot feeling but that is about it.. I can't say i am sluggish, or foggy, etc.

    Thanks for the advice!


    Do a partial Keto diet in which you limit carbs to immediately post workout and for the 4 to 6 hours following the workout. That's what I'm doing right now - with a few other specifications - and I love it.
    That is more along the lines of TKD, in which carbs are consumed around workouts..

    What kind of muscle building gains are you seeing on this?

    Also medium chain triglyceride's (from virgin coconut oil) can help with stamina.

    Thanks!


    ANyone else used CKD/TKD to bulk?
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    That is more along the lines of TKD, in which carbs are consumed around workouts..

    What kind of muscle building gains are you seeing on this?
    I'm doing a cycle at the moment, and the gains are totally there.. So I'd imagine it would still be effective when natural... or, I hope. lol
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    Just wanted to give a lil update..

    I am on day 4 of CKD.. I am noticing no side effects that allot notice at the begining.. I was taking this week off from the gym, but decided to go in and workout today just to see how i felt.. Strength is the exact same, even though i have been on CKD for a 3days, at almost 1k calories less then i was on my previous bulking diet..

    I am going to finish this week out at 2600 cals, then monday bump calories up to about 3600, and get back into the gym

    I weighed in today at 189.2, and was 194.6lbs when i weighed myself sunday morning(started CKD Monday)

    I feel 100x less bloated, no gas, it is great so far. I still look pretty full, but much drier. I wish i was still on DRIVE as the vascularity and muscle hardness would be much greater i am sure.

    If this is supposed to be the hardest week, i can't wait to see how i do on 1k more cals, and after my body has really adjusted.

    Don't get me wrong i LOVE carbs, but mabey my body just prefers to burn fat for fuel..
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    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    JI am going to finish this week out at 2600 cals, then monday bump calories up to about 3600, and get back into the gym
    Typically you want to start out at maintenance to adjust, but also to counter most of the adverse side effects one may encounter while crossing over.

    I myself went below maintenance at the beginning as well, although not on purpose. I just couldn't eat....my appetite has been severely curbed on this diet, whereas on carbs I would be hungary 30 min after eating...


    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    I feel 100x less bloated, no gas, it is great so far. I still look pretty full, but much drier.
    Ditto. QFT.
    Last edited by beallio; 11-15-2007 at 05:38 PM. Reason: because I'm an idiot and can't spell
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    Quote Originally Posted by beallio View Post
    Typically you want to start out at maintenance to adjust, but this also to counter most the adverse side effects one will encounter while crossing over.

    I myself went below maintenance at the beginning as well, although not on purpose. I just couldn't eat....my appetite has been severely curved on this diet, whereas on carbs I would be hungary 30 min after eating...




    Ditto. QFT.
    That is crazy bro.. I think my appetite is much greater on this diet. I am always hungry.. Possably because i am consuming far less cals then i was before.

    We will see how i do come monday when i step it up to the 3500+ range.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beallio View Post
    Typically you want to start out at maintenance to adjust, but this also to counter most the adverse side effects one will encounter while crossing over.

    I myself went below maintenance at the beginning as well, although not on purpose. I just couldn't eat....my appetite has been severely curved on this diet, whereas on carbs I would be hungary 30 min after eating...




    Ditto. QFT.
    I dont have the study but I remember reading on here and in on eof my nutrition classes that carb free diets surpress the appetite much more than diets with carbs.....just take me word,lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    Thanks for the reply.

    I am getting 2700 cals no problem right now...lol I can see myself easily getting down 4k cals on this diet..

    I just wonder if i will make mass gains on a carb depleted diet. I have always been on the thought process of "ya need carbs to gain mass" So this is hard for me to get past.

    As for the transition.. That was my exact reason for trying this now on my 10day break.. I figured i could see how i feel, make the transition, and be ready to go come training time.

    Honestly so far i feel totally fine. No real sides that some notice on CKD.
    You need carbs to gain fat.
    You need a caloric surplus to gain muscle mass.

    What would 4,000 calories look like without carbs? I found it difficult enough to surpass 2,500. Are you going to be chugging olive oil every day?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    You need carbs to gain fat.
    You need a caloric surplus to gain muscle mass.

    What would 4,000 calories look like without carbs? I found it difficult enough to surpass 2,500. Are you going to be chugging olive oil every day?
    I do

    Easy to get 4k, you just have to eat a few more meals. Look at scivations C.H.A diet book. Your hitting about 56gr protein and about 30gr fat thru 7-8 meals.
    Last edited by Distilled Water; 11-15-2007 at 07:49 PM. Reason: Amount of fat
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    Here's the link The C.H.A. Diet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    What would 4,000 calories look like without carbs? I found it difficult enough to surpass 2,500. Are you going to be chugging olive oil every day?
    Been eating allot of Eggs, some turkey sausage, cheese, steak, ground beef, chicken, WPI with olive oil. So much variety i can eat on this type of diet.

    Honestly i find it easier to get down the cals with whole food, then i do when eating carbs. When i am eating carbs i have to drink atleast 2 whey shakes a day..

    When 55-60% of your diet is fat,it shouldn't be that hard to hit those numbers..
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    I'm currently giving the Anabolic Diet a run to bulk. Is anyone else in this thread specifically on the AD? Also, I haven't seen it mentioned in here so I just want to stress that anyone who is just starting a high fat/high pro./low carb. diet must consume copious amounts of veggies and other sources of fiber (such as milled flax seed and fiber supps...but be wary as some of these like metamucil have maltodextrin which will count against your daily carbo. intake). You should be getting around 30g of fiber a day. Do not count fiber as part of your daily carbo. intake as it does not impact blood sugar and it will keep you regular, among other benefits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    I'm currently giving the Anabolic Diet a run to bulk. Is anyone else in this thread specifically on the AD? Also, I haven't seen it mentioned in here so I just want to stress that anyone who is just starting a high fat/high pro./low carb. diet must consume copious amounts of veggies and other sources of fiber (such as milled flax seed and fiber supps...but be wary as some of these like metamucil have maltodextrin which will count against your daily carbo. intake). You should be getting around 30g of fiber a day. Do not count fiber as part of your daily carbo. intake as it does not impact blood sugar and it will keep you regular, among other benefits.
    Yes. I am following the AD.. I have been using metimucil, sugar free, and just counting the minimal carbs towards my daily totals.. Honestly the only carbs i get are from the metimucil, so i am usually under 20g a day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    Anyone use CKD, or TKD for mass gaining? What were your results? Is it something you would do again, or just stick to a more traditional approach?

    I am currently on a 10day break from the gym, and started CKD, at just under maintence. When i get back i am trying to decide if i should resume my normal "bulking" diet, or give CKD A go. I figured in these 10days, it would give my body ample time to see how i felt on no carbs..

    Any help would be much appreciated.
    BTW 10 days is NOT going to give you ample time for your body to make the switch from using carbos. to fat for energy. It takes time for your body to truely adapt. The longer you stay on the better your body will know the ropes, and by week 12 you'll be smooth sailing. Just a word of advice, don't pass judgment so early or you'll drop this diet in no time claiming that it didn't work for you, when really you hadn't given your body enough time to adjust and enjoy the benefits. Patience my friend, this is a lifestyle change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    Thanks for the advice.. I was thinking of starting my refeeds saturday mid day(3pm) and doing them untill about 5pm sunday. But with that said should i be eating normal pro/fat meals before my refeeds start sat, and after they end sunday?

    I just can't decide if i want to commit to trying this or not.. I would hate to be spinning my wheels for a month or so, when i could be making good gains..

    I can normally gain at about 3200-3500, so i wouldn't see not making progress getting down 4k cals, no carb. With refeeds.

    Any advice from experienced CKD/TKD'ers is appreciated.
    On sunday night you should not eat meals high in fat/pro. after you've been eating carbos. during the day. This will be counterproductive. I suggest that you finish the night off with carbs. However, it will not hurt you to do the first half of saturday with high pro/high fat, but I would suggest you just apt for a 36 hour carb-up if you're bulking starting on Saturday morning and ending on Sunday night. This will not be detrimental, in fact, since you're bulking I think you should be taking advantage of the 36 hour window and try to get at least 4,000 cals per day at around 60% carbs/25-30% fat/10-15% protein. Once adapted you can get away with that much fat with your carbs because the regular rules no longer apply to us efficient fat users. It will actually help you spike insulin and suttle those carbos. into your muscles. Also, you'll feel less like sh*t during your carb-ups if you keep about 75% from starchy sources and only the other 25% cheating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    Yes. I am following the AD.. I have been using metimucil, sugar free, and just counting the minimal carbs towards my daily totals.. Honestly the only carbs i get are from the metimucil, so i am usually under 20g a day.
    Nice, the AD is the way to go! I also enjoy all the good foods that I get to eat on this diet. Steak, eggs, cheese, bacon, ground beef, protein shakes w/ heavy whipping cream and all the carbs you can stuff down your throat on the weekends...doesn't get any better than this!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    Just a word of advice, don't pass judgment so early or you'll drop this diet in no time claiming that it didn't work for you, when really you hadn't given your body enough time to adjust and enjoy the benefits. Patience my friend, this is a lifestyle change.
    Honestly, like i said above, i am having NO adverse effects at all.. I feel totaly normal. The only side effects are no bloat, or gas..LOL Which i am cool with.. I think i actually may have more energy now then prior.

    I want to do the carb load from mid day saturday since then that gives me freedom for dinner sat night, and sunday dinner. So what i will do is eat normal lo-cab saturday untill about 3pm, then start my carb load. Carry it over into sunday morn, untill about 5pm. After that i will only really have 1 meal left, and i will just have a whey shake with oil before bed.

    How does that sound?


    How far into this are you? What kind of mass gains are you seeing VS a more conventional approach?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    You need carbs to gain fat.
    You need a caloric surplus to gain muscle mass.

    What would 4,000 calories look like without carbs? I found it difficult enough to surpass 2,500. Are you going to be chugging olive oil every day?
    Macadamia nuts my friend, macadamia nuts. Go to Costco and buy them in bulk. 21g of fat a serving, 1 net carb (1g of fiber to boot), and 2g of protein.

    Also try Coconut oil. I eat it by the tbsp before workouts for some quick energy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    I'm currently giving the Anabolic Diet a run to bulk. Is anyone else in this thread specifically on the AD? Also, I haven't seen it mentioned in here so I just want to stress that anyone who is just starting a high fat/high pro./low carb. diet must consume copious amounts of veggies and other sources of fiber (such as milled flax seed and fiber supps...but be wary as some of these like metamucil have maltodextrin which will count against your daily carbo. intake). You should be getting around 30g of fiber a day. Do not count fiber as part of your daily carbo. intake as it does not impact blood sugar and it will keep you regular, among other benefits.
    So if I wanted to try this out could I use psyllium husk powder to keep me regular and not count it as carb intake?
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    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    Honestly, like i said above, i am having NO adverse effects at all.. I feel totaly normal. The only side effects are no bloat, or gas..LOL Which i am cool with.. I think i actually may have more energy now then prior.

    I want to do the carb load from mid day saturday since then that gives me freedom for dinner sat night, and sunday dinner. So what i will do is eat normal lo-cab saturday untill about 3pm, then start my carb load. Carry it over into sunday morn, untill about 5pm. After that i will only really have 1 meal left, and i will just have a whey shake with oil before bed.

    How does that sound?


    How far into this are you? What kind of mass gains are you seeing VS a more conventional approach?
    That sounds like a good plan. Make sure to eat plenty of carbs during your load and just know that you might be bound to the couch all weekend. My first carb-up left me in a coma not wanting to do a damn thing. I have only just begun this diet as well but I have a few weeks under my belt. I am by no means an expert but all of the advice that I have given comes from the literature and is backed by Dr. DiPas.'s research, which I have been spending most of my free time reading lately. Some people are lucky enough not to experience a crash but I wouldn't get too excited that you are in the clear because the crash hit me on about day 9-10 and made me feel like absolute sh*t. Before the crash happened I had smooth clean energy as you're describing right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverSurfer View Post
    So if I wanted to try this out could I use psyllium husk powder to keep me regular and not count it as carb intake?
    Absolutely, psyllium husk powder is a great way to get in some extra fiber. And you are correct, this does not count against your daily carb intake as fiber does not impact blood glucose and therefore is not fighting with fat for an energy substrate. I find that the best veggie to get fiber from is spinach, as it has 4g carbs per serving - 3 grams of fiber = 1 carb. A single serving of spinach is fukcing huge. Another good way that I've mentioned is from milled flax seed which has a good amount of fiber and absolutely no carbs that will count against you, on top of supplying you with some extra Omega-3's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    That sounds like a good plan. Make sure to eat plenty of carbs during your load and just know that you might be bound to the couch all weekend. My first carb-up left me in a coma not wanting to do a damn thing. I have only just begun this diet as well but I have a few weeks under my belt. I am by no means an expert but all of the advice that I have given comes from the literature and is backed by Dr. DiPas.'s research, which I have been spending most of my free time reading lately. Some people are lucky enough not to experience a crash but I wouldn't get too excited that you are in the clear because the crash hit me on about day 9-10 and made me feel like absolute sh*t. Before the crash happened I had smooth clean energy as you're describing right now.
    Sounds good..

    When you say you felt the crash at day 9-10, did you carb load on day 6-7? Or did you wait untill day 12 to carb load?
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    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    Sounds good..

    When you say you felt the crash at day 9-10, did you carb load on day 6-7? Or did you wait untill day 12 to carb load?
    I did carb load the first weekend. The original Anabolic Diet Book doesn't say you need to do the 12 day break in like the guys over at T-Nation do. I was initially going to try and make it to day 12 anyway but I was fiending for carbs so bad that I ate them the first weekend. I went from a diet of 500g+ of carbs per day so the switch may be easier on you if you didn't eat such a high carb diet before hand. Did you carb-up this weekend or are you toughin out the 12 day break in? BTW I put back 5,500 cals yesterday and I'm shooting for the same today.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    I did carb load the first weekend. The original Anabolic Diet Book doesn't say you need to do the 12 day break in like the guys over at T-Nation do. I was initially going to try and make it to day 12 anyway but I was fiending for carbs so bad that I ate them the first weekend. I went from a diet of 500g+ of carbs per day so the switch may be easier on you if you didn't eat such a high carb diet before hand. Did you carb-up this weekend or are you toughin out the 12 day break in? BTW I put back 5,500 cals yesterday and I'm shooting for the same today.
    I take it that was a re-feed?
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    You bet.
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    Ya.. i been carbing up since yesterday at around 3pm.. Will continue till about 5pm tonight. Keeping it pretty clean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    Ya.. i been carbing up since yesterday at around 3pm.. Will continue till about 5pm tonight. Keeping it pretty clean.
    How do you feel? Muscle fullness, lethargic, bloat?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    How do you feel? Muscle fullness, lethargic, bloat?
    Feel fine.. Not lethargic, feel pretty full. But i feel puffy, and bloated sightly.. HOWEVER i feel 10x less bloated then a normal day of my old bulking diet..
  

  
 

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