[ozarkaBRAND]

Would something like this work for a bulk, specifically a bulk during a ph cycle?

P/C/F = 45/10/45
For a 180lb guy, taking in around 3500kcals/day

[TripDog]

i keep carbs pretty low and im up 12.5 pounds in 7 weeks(lean)

[rpen22]

How do you guys define "low-carb"? How much we talkin about here?

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND

Would something like this work for a bulk, specifically a bulk during a ph cycle?

P/C/F = 45/10/45
For a 180lb guy, taking in around 3500kcals/day

That will work. Take in the carbs around your workout.

But also as this is your first time doing this make caloric adjustments as you go along. If you need more energy in the gym bump up the carbs on workout days. Don't expend the fats for workout energy...let the fats contribute to building muscle.

[EasyEJL]

keep the carb meals as low fat meals too. so get in that whole 10% pre + post workout, with just protein with it in the meals.

[ozarkaBRAND]

Fan-freakin'tastic, thanks guys.

[ozarkaBRAND]

Got another Q. What if, I nearly completely cut out carbs during the week and had a high carb re-feed day on the weekend? Or is the macro split I've got going right now sufficiently deficient in carbs to warrant a re-feed day?

[EasyEJL]

well, if you want to craft a diet like that, look at lyle mcdonalds books. he gives the instructions on how to do CKDs appropriately. you may be surprised at what you find out

[scott72]

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

well, if you want to craft a diet like that, look at lyle mcdonalds books. he gives the instructions on how to do CKDs appropriately. you may be surprised at what you find out

Not sure i've seen anyone bulk on a CKD, but would be interested to hear some feedback. Endo here and very carb sensitive. Bulking and also keeping carbs low, but afraid to go too low.

[EasyEJL]

you can bulk on a CKD, it doesn't really make much difference. bulking really is all about "calories in over maintenance". And there's no magic behind CKD, you can't eat all the fat and protein you want and loose weight so long as you dont have carbs, its still calories in - calories used = weight gained or lost. The weird part is taking in just .9g protein per lb of bodyweight.

[dsade]

Correct...CKD (or even carb cycling without ketosis) can be used for a bulk with some success.

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND

Got another Q. What if, I nearly completely cut out carbs during the week and had a high carb re-feed day on the weekend? Or is the macro split I've got going right now sufficiently deficient in carbs to warrant a re-feed day?

You might want to use Dave Palumbo's diet. He says that the reason people feel poorly on Ketogenic diets is that they are eating too many carbs and especially w/ the refeed days...the brain gets those carbs and keeps looking for them instead of being happy with using the fat for energy. So he cuts out carbs & refeed days and uses just one refeed carb meal per week.

His diet is for cutting but can be manipulated for bulking. The elements are discussed in his 400+ page thread at MD magazines' forums (I've only read the 1st 100 pages). I'd provide the link but w/ all the rules here I don't know if it is allowed. It is in the following section:

Muscular Development Forums > *Special* > MD Staff and Pros > Q&A with Dave Palumbo!

Here is a cut and paste of some of his posts regarding the diet:

RE: DIET BASICS

The premise of the diet is high protein (about 1- 1 1/2 gram per pound), moderate fat (about 1/2 g per lb) and low low carbs (no direct sources of carbs). During this diet, the brain goes into ketosis (it uses ketone bodies for energy-- fats) and thus the energy requirements by the body can almost all be supplied by fats (which you'll be taking in plenty of). The only activity that uses carbs will be the weight workout which may use 40grams per workout. You will get these 40g indirectly through the foods you'll be eating. As a backup, the cheat meal you'll be having once per week will provide a storehouse of glycogen (glucose) in case of emergency. So, you see, very little gluconeogenesis in the liver will be occurring. If we keep cortisol low (by restricting STIMULANTS) we'll ensure that muscle is spared!

...

Dave Palumbo’s Performance Diet Plan (200lb man)

Meal 1: 6 whole Omega-3 eggs
Protein: 36 Fat: 24 Carbs: 0 Kcal: 360

Meal 2: 225g chicken with 62.5g of raw almonds
Protein: 63 Fat: 33 Carbs 12 Kcal: 597

Meal 3: 50g whey with 32g all natural peanut butter
Protein: 40 Fat: 17 Carbs: 12 Kcal: 361

Meal 4:225g salmon with 250g asparagus with 16g macadamia nut oil
Protein: 50 Fat: 40 Carbs: 10 Kcal: 600

Meal 5: 50 g whey with 32g of all natural Peanut butter
Protein: 40 Fat: 17 Carbs: 12 Kcal: 361

Meal 6: 6 whole eggs
Protein: 36 Fat: 24 Carbs: 0 Kcal: 360

Overall Protein: 265 Overall fat: 155 Overall carbs: 46
1060Kcal (40.1%) 1395Kcal (52.8%) 184Kcal (6.9%)

Total Kcal: 2639Kcal per day

...

What is a safe amount of whole eggs (non omega-3) one can eat per day. Is 2 whole eggs + 4 whites sufficient as one of the meals you have layed out?

Interestingly, if you're dieting and living off the dietary fat, 5-10 whole eggs per day (regular ones) would probably still not cause any deleterious effects since you'll be BURNING UP all the fat and cholesterol. If you eat all those eggs while on an OFFSEASON program, you might have a problem since all that fat isn't going toward energy consumption.

...

All KETOSIS means is that your BRAIN is no longer burning glucose (carbs) for energy; it's using FAT ......and because we never run out of fat, the brain has a virtually unlimited source of energy..... therefore, no low blood sugar, no hunger cravings, no mood swings, and no irritability!

RE: CHEAT MEAL & CARBS

HAVE YOUR CHEAT MEAL ON THE SAME DAY EVERY WEEK. Your cheat meal should be a CHEAT!! Not a "clean" carb up. We want to shock the body. You're body's metabolism amps itself up better after a "dirty" cheat meal than after a "clean" one. Why? I'm not sure. Maybe those greasy, sugary, meals SHOCK the body more and convince it that it's no longer in a dieting state?

As i've said before, don't eat like it's your last meal on Earth. Eat to satisfy yourself. Dinner, dessert, and 1 drink are fine.

I suggest keeping the cheat meal for your last meal since if you eat it for the first, EITHER: 1) you'll keep cheating all day OR 2) You'll skip meals because you'll be so full.

You add carbs (keep fat and protein the same).............this is a very important point. If you cut back fat when you add in the carbs, you'll be taking in LESS CALORIES and you'll never be able to carb up (the carbs will be used for energy instead of for glycogen loading).

"dave if in the "dieting phase" what about dietry fiber and the 2 or 3 carbs in stuff like peanut butter, protein shakes, vitamin c, eggs, and a couple other foods?"

Those carbs are fine........... I suggest taking a daily FIBER supplement 2x per day (sugar free metamucil is great).

Low carbs coming from GREENS is essentially my diet..

"dave, can you eat fibourous carbs such as asparagus or spinich twice a day and still get into ketosis or do you have to limit that also?"

You can probably incorporate them...........add the Olive oil or Macadamia nut oil to the Asparagus or spinach (instead of a salad).

You can substitute a cup of green beans, broccoli, spinach, or asparagus for the salad.

"Why do you say limit splenda to only 4 per day(I sometimes have more like 10), I thought it was calorie free and therefore could not stimulate insulin or increase blood sugar?"

It's sugar free. It contains 1g carbs per packet. 20 packets= 20g carbs..........got the message? Stick to STEVIA BALANCE (it tastes pretty good when your starved).

"dave if carbs are needed in the off season to spare fats and protein to aid in growth, is 25 grams of carbs enough per meal (assuming that i am going to eat 5 meals a day) to aid in this..?"

I'd suggest 6-7 meals per day in the offseason and YES, 25g per meal will work in that scenario!

RE: FATS

I recommend that women take in about 8-10 g fat per meal; whereas men take in 12-17 per meal.

omega-3 eggs
raw almonds
natural peanut butter
natural sugar free almond butter
macadamia nut oil
Extra Virgin Olive Oil
salmon
chicken
whey protein powder
...

What are the oils that you allow in your diet?
a.) Extra Virgin Olive Oil yes
b.) Olive Oil no
c.) Safflower Oil no
d.) Sunflower Oil no
e.) Corn Oil no
f.) Coconut or Palm Oil no
g.) Extra Virgin Coconut Oil decent
h.) Sesame Oil ok
i.) Peanut Oil ok
j.) Butter no

...

Regular Olive Oil has been processed and, in doing so, has damaged the fragile monounsaturated fats in the Olive Oil. Olive Oil should be COLD PRESSED and stored in a dark container. When they bleach out the olive oil to give it a lighter color and less bitter taste, it destroys the healthy benefits.

"so dont buy olive oil in clear glass?"
BROWN GLASS IS SAFER!

You can take too much of anything. Remember, it's the balance of Omega-3s to Omega-6's that are important. They should be consumed in a 1:1 ratio. Therefore, if you take too much OMEGA-3 (FLAX SEED OIL)-- even though it's good for you-- you'll throw off the ratio of the O3:O6.

You are correct and in fact FLAX SEED OIL is higher in Omega-3's than Fish oil......HOWEVER, Fish Oil also contains the OMEGA-3 INTERMEDIATES, EPA & DHA. These Omega-3 intermediates are the "active" metabolites of Omega-3 fatty acids that are responsible for all the good "stuff"...... Flax Seed Oil contains Omega-3's but they must be converted into DHA and EPA first. If this conversion doesn't happen, the Flax Seed Oil is useless. This is why Fish Oil is a much better source of O-3's. Vegetarians who don't eat fish usually rely on Flax.