The highest relative maintenance req you'll ever see...

Al Shades

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...goes to me.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm nearly 6' and I require 3,000 calories a day to maintain a bodyweight of ~136 lbs.

Previously, 3,500-3,800 calories a day took me up to a whopping 142. With distended stomach.

*Curtains Roll*

Thank you very much

Now, how about posting your own "caloric maintenance index"? Divide your maintenance caloric intake by your weight at that intake and post the result.

This thread can serve as a highly informative reference for people to compare their metabolic requirements at various weights. Get enough answers and we can even toss this into a sticky.

If anyone beats me, I'll be shocked...
 

quigley

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im 6' , 136lbs

maintenance- = 3,001!

Yeow!!!

haha na im screwin wid u
 
Frequency

Frequency

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...goes to me.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm nearly 6' and I require 3,000 calories a day to maintain a bodyweight of ~136 lbs.

Previously, 3,500-3,800 calories a day took me up to a whopping 142. With distended stomach.

*Curtains Roll*

Thank you very much

Now, how about posting your own "caloric maintenance index"? Divide your maintenance caloric intake by your weight at that intake and post the result.

This thread can serve as a highly informative reference for people to compare their metabolic requirements at various weights. Get enough answers and we can even toss this into a sticky.

If anyone beats me, I'll be shocked...
how old are you and what does your workout schedule look like?
 
TheNinja

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I'm 30, sit in an office most of the day. I'm 6'1" 187 pounds and need about 2200 calories to maintain :)
 
haiz69

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19 Years Old. 170 pounds. Need 3500 to maintain.
 
kabuki

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30 yo
5-9"
250lbs

4500-5000 to maintain

and goes up to 5500 when training hard.

got you beat :) with 20 vs your 18
 
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Al Shades

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how old are you and what does your workout schedule look like?
I'm 20 now but I've been like this since 17. I've been training seriously for about 2 yrs. I train 4 days a week. Usual split is as follows:

D1 Arms
D2 Legs
D3 Shoulders/Traps
D4 Chest/Back
 
drivehard

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5'9" and 220 and need between 2000 and 2500 a day to maintain.

I work out 4 times a week
walk with my wife carrying my 25 lb. kid 3 miles once a week
Ride my MTB bike or go to spinning class 1 or two times a week
 
Aggravated

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5'9" and 220 and need between 2000 and 2500 a day to maintain.

I work out 4 times a week
walk with my wife carrying my 25 lb. kid 3 miles once a week
Ride my MTB bike or go to spinning class 1 or two times a week
A lot of there reqs will differ when related to the types of "Jobs/Careers" we all perform. Say Johnny sits on his ass all day in A/C while Peter works construction in the blazing heat. Of course peter will require tons more cals than Johnny when trying to maintain his weight.

Then, theres body type...

Then, theres supplement regimen. What % of the cals you are taking are supps, and what is real food?

Then, theres light-moderate-heavy training. Do you sit on your ass in the gym, or go balls to the wall like me?

There are so many factors to this that it isn't funny.

My height - 6'0.5"

My weight - 201 lbs

Body Fat % - 13.5

Body Type - Ectomorph

Work - not much

Training - Very hard is an understatement

Percentage of calories that are from supps - 25% Mainly because of my 500 cal protein shake/carb loader in the AM.

Caloric intake required to maintain current weight (Based on what I ate then, vs what I eat now) is around 2700.

Reason: 85% of the time at work I sit on my ass, or walk around the facility. I work with computers. I am a system administrator, so yeah I sit on my ass. However, I really do go balls to the wall in the gym, and try to eat 4000+ calories a day because I am trying to bulk atm.

This is me though.
 
Frequency

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I'm 20 now but I've been like this since 17. I've been training seriously for about 2 yrs. I train 4 days a week. Usual split is as follows:

D1 Arms
D2 Legs
D3 Shoulders/Traps
D4 Chest/Back
what did you use to calc that cal total
 

Irish Cannon

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Maintain? What is this maintain thing that you speak of? All I know is bulk.
 
Al Shades

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what did you use to calc that cal total
I used Fitday.

As of this week I am beginning a slow bulk that will take me to 3.5-3.6 on training days (working up to 4k eventually). On off days I will come back down to maintenance which is shown below:
 

cardiffgiant

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Maintain? What is this maintain thing that you speak of? All I know is bulk.
My friend used to say things like this and he also referred to his stomach are as his big ab.LOL. I hear ya on the bulking but good to strip down to see details.:hot: :good: :cheers:
 
Al Shades

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Why are you eating so few carbs???
I'd like to add muscle, not fat and water.

I really dislike carbs for a variety of reasons. I've tried high carbs in the past and it didn't work out well.

Right now, I'm a huge supporter of high fat, low carb diets. Especially animal fats - I love them and I'm firmly convinced that the cholesterol hypothesis is a crock of BS.

If my maintenance was not ridiculously high I would not be eating carbs at all. I would love to do a keto-style bulk, but it's just not feasible atm. So I will do the best I can and keep carbs under 200 at all times, even up to 4,000 cals.

With the meal plan posted above, I was only eating carbs for PWO, as a big bowl of oats or pasta. For my bulk, the only thing that's changing is that I'll be drinking a large protein shake with whole milk pre/during my workout. Whey and olive or coconut oil will be added to the shake. This alone will add 7-800 cals and take me close to 4k.

And I'm going to start taking p-slin. Hopefully this stuff will do what it's supposed to.
 
kabuki

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I'd like to add muscle, not fat and water.

I really dislike carbs for a variety of reasons. I've tried high carbs in the past and it didn't work out well.
i'm sure i'm in the minority here but i believe carbs are an essiental part of packing on quality mass as well...if used properly.


Right now, I'm a huge supporter of high fat, low carb diets. Especially animal fats - I love them and I'm firmly convinced that the cholesterol hypothesis is a crock of BS.
agreed on cholesteral BS
however i have found fats from nuts and fish to have much better impact...but thats just me.

overall i don't think you maintenance levels are out of hand. just eat more. its simple math. I'd still be over 100lbs lighter if i didn't force feed myself and train.
 
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cardiffgiant

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I'd like to add muscle, not fat and water.

I really dislike carbs for a variety of reasons. I've tried high carbs in the past and it didn't work out well.

Right now, I'm a huge supporter of high fat, low carb diets. Especially animal fats - I love them and I'm firmly convinced that the cholesterol hypothesis is a crock of BS.

If my maintenance was not ridiculously high I would not be eating carbs at all. I would love to do a keto-style bulk, but it's just not feasible atm. So I will do the best I can and keep carbs under 200 at all times, even up to 4,000 cals.

With the meal plan posted above, I was only eating carbs for PWO, as a big bowl of oats or pasta. For my bulk, the only thing that's changing is that I'll be drinking a large protein shake with whole milk pre/during my workout. Whey and olive or coconut oil will be added to the shake. This alone will add 7-800 cals and take me close to 4k.

And I'm going to start taking p-slin. Hopefully this stuff will do what it's supposed to.
No offence but keto-style bulk sounds like an oxymoron. People who are trying to strip off fat and maintain muscle use keto(locarb). I just did recently and it helped a lot. Eating steak is great but for someone trying to gain size like yourself it would make a lot more sense to add at least some more carbs than what you are suggesting. Usually I think people have a hard time getting enough protein especially when trying to avoid saturated fat. anyways i thought all this was common knowledge but I guess not. Damn never heard someone complain about having to eat carbs.Plenty of choices too so eat some yams and good luck.
 
kabuki

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^^^ agreed. i couldn't imagine being that size and trying to avoid carbs.
 
Al Shades

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^^^ agreed. i couldn't imagine being that size and trying to avoid carbs.
Maybe it would put things into perspective if I told you that 3+ years ago, when my weight was in the 120's and I felt very sick, carbs made up 75% or more of my food intake.

I could also use a more recent example and tell you what happened when I first started reading bodybuilding forums. This was in late 04/early 05. I got my first exposure to the "bulking mindset" and all the associated "rules", and for the next half year or so I adhered to them strictly. I measured out portions and ran them through fitday each day for several months. From spring through summer 05 I was taking in 3,500-4,000 cals per day, with plenty of it coming from carbs, just as bodybuilding conventional wisdom would have it.

And the result? I was bloated 24/7 and developed gas and digestive problems. My weight went up to 145 and leveled off there. Obviously, much of the gain was attributable to water and fat-weight. I realized that it was unhealthy to try and force my body into putting on weight, and from that point on, I took matters into my own hands. Since that time I have been constantly improving and reforming my diet. And these improvements have largely taken the form of removing carbs from my diet and replacing them with sources of animal fats and proteins. I tried a pure keto diet for the first time this summer. Four years of evolution had led me to this point.

I've tried carbs the vegetarian way, the average-person way, and the bodybuilder way. In each case the result was the same: Carbs simply don't work.

No offence but keto-style bulk sounds like an oxymoron. People who are trying to strip off fat and maintain muscle use keto(locarb). I just did recently and it helped a lot. Eating steak is great but for someone trying to gain size like yourself it would make a lot more sense to add at least some more carbs than what you are suggesting. Usually I think people have a hard time getting enough protein especially when trying to avoid saturated fat. anyways i thought all this was common knowledge but I guess not. Damn never heard someone complain about having to eat carbs.Plenty of choices too so eat some yams and good luck.
1) What's oxymoronic about a keto bulk? All that "keto" describes is a certain macronutrient ratio that results in all consumed calories coming from fats and proteins. You need to think about this some more. There is NO reason why keto cannot or should not be used to bulk. There is no such thing as a "cutting diet" or a "bulking diet". There are only good and bad diets, with different portions. If keto worked well for you, then why the hell wouldn't you choose to stay on it year around, and simply adjust your portions as necessary. I'll take a cue from Tylenol here: STOP. THINK.

2) I'm not trying to avoid saturated fat, I'm trying to eat as as much of it as possible. Sat. Fat is my primary anabolic aid.

3) The reason why you've never heard someone complaining about eating carbs is because they're basically addictive, pathogenic chemicals. They are generally unsafe for human consumption. Most people develop sugar addictions as children and simply continue them into adulthood. You never hear of anyone getting addicted to real food the way that people are addicted to carbs. So, really, this shouldn't come as any surprise. I was addicted to carbs for many years. A high carb diet burned out my adrenals and gave me the worst disease symptoms I've ever had. That's why I no longer eat them.

4) No thanks for the yams? I'm trying to avoid fruits and vegetables because I don't want to blow out my gut from high fiber intake. It took me a few years to realize that I could eliminate my digestive problems overnight simply by eliminating carbs. Fiber is horrible stuff. It's horrible to eat and it's horrible to your insides. I'm not a cow and I only have one stomach. The cow can eat the grass and I'll eat the cow, thank you very much.
 

cardiffgiant

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Maybe it would put things into perspective if I told you that 3+ years ago, when my weight was in the 120's and I felt very sick, carbs made up 75% or more of my food intake.

I could also use a more recent example and tell you what happened when I first started reading bodybuilding forums. This was in late 04/early 05. I got my first exposure to the "bulking mindset" and all the associated "rules", and for the next half year or so I adhered to them strictly. I measured out portions and ran them through fitday each day for several months. From spring through summer 05 I was taking in 3,500-4,000 cals per day, with plenty of it coming from carbs, just as bodybuilding conventional wisdom would have it.

And the result? I was bloated 24/7 and developed gas and digestive problems. My weight went up to 145 and leveled off there. Obviously, much of the gain was attributable to water and fat-weight. I realized that it was unhealthy to try and force my body into putting on weight, and from that point on, I took matters into my own hands. Since that time I have been constantly improving and reforming my diet. And these improvements have largely taken the form of removing carbs from my diet and replacing them with sources of animal fats and proteins. I tried a pure keto diet for the first time this summer. Four years of evolution had led me to this point.

I've tried carbs the vegetarian way, the average-person way, and the bodybuilder way. In each case the result was the same: Carbs simply don't work.



1) What's oxymoronic about a keto bulk? All that "keto" describes is a certain macronutrient ratio that results in all consumed calories coming from fats and proteins. You need to think about this some more. There is NO reason why keto cannot or should not be used to bulk. There is no such thing as a "cutting diet" or a "bulking diet". There are only good and bad diets, with different portions. If keto worked well for you, then why the hell wouldn't you choose to stay on it year around, and simply adjust your portions as necessary. I'll take a cue from Tylenol here: STOP. THINK.

2) I'm not trying to avoid saturated fat, I'm trying to eat as as much of it as possible. Sat. Fat is my primary anabolic aid.

3) The reason why you've never heard someone complaining about eating carbs is because they're basically addictive, pathogenic chemicals. They are generally unsafe for human consumption. Most people develop sugar addictions as children and simply continue them into adulthood. You never hear of anyone getting addicted to real food the way that people are addicted to carbs. So, really, this shouldn't come as any surprise. I was addicted to carbs for many years. A high carb diet burned out my adrenals and gave me the worst disease symptoms I've ever had. That's why I no longer eat them.

4) No thanks for the yams? I'm trying to avoid fruits and vegetables because I don't want to blow out my gut from high fiber intake. It took me a few years to realize that I could eliminate my digestive problems overnight simply by eliminating carbs. Fiber is horrible stuff. It's horrible to eat and it's horrible to your insides. I'm not a cow and I only have one stomach. The cow can eat the grass and I'll eat the cow, thank you very much.
If you can't grow on any diet but are happiest with keto than by all means continue. I stopped keto for a few reasons will do again in a while. Glad to hear fiber is bad for you cause I haven't been getting enough lately.
No such thing as cutting or bulking is as stupid as the whole keto bulk BS term you already used.
Also a lot of bodybuilders limit carbs to avoid gaining fat,they are not all carb crazy-well maybe some like in the muscletech ads using every drug under the sun including insulin and swearing that aplodan gave them the gains.Utilizing saturated fat is one of the few things you said that makes sense.Please don't give us this carbs are addictive BS either til you get a real addiction like drugs.Sorry I'm harsh and I hardly know it all but you are in need of some real learning if you wanna gain fat free mass. If eating how you do makes you happy then just keep doing it but don't think you are ketobulking cause unless you are eating even more cals then you did to put on mass with carbs then you are kidding yourself.
 
RisingAgainst

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1) What's oxymoronic about a keto bulk? All that "keto" describes is a certain macronutrient ratio that results in all consumed calories coming from fats and proteins. You need to think about this some more. There is NO reason why keto cannot or should not be used to bulk. There is no such thing as a "cutting diet" or a "bulking diet". There are only good and bad diets, with different portions. If keto worked well for you, then why the hell wouldn't you choose to stay on it year around, and simply adjust your portions as necessary. I'll take a cue from Tylenol here: STOP. THINK..
Keto refers to the body being in a state of ketosis or producing ketones due to a lack of glycogen.... IMO there's no OXY involved in your case man, just moronic... the advice I've seen in this thread is not only honest, but blunt enough for anyone to understand they're wrong. I'm not gonna sit here and pick apart your diet/training/lifestyle because you didn't come here for advice, as you're arguing everybody's so far... so instead of telling you to do this or do that, I'm just going to wish you the best of luck and when you realize you're wrong and your pride/ego were in the way of you getting big like the rest of us in this thread, you can come back anytime to thank us all. :D Oh :welcome: to AM
 

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Tons of saturated fat? No fruit or vegetables?

You're right Al, you've cracked the code! Read up guys, this is the optimal diet! And watch those carbs, you don't wanna become addicted and "burn out your adrenals!"
 
RisingAgainst

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Tons of saturated fat? No fruit or vegetables?

You're right Al, you've cracked the code! Read up guys, this is the optimal diet! And watch those carbs, you don't wanna become addicted and "burn out your adrenals!"
oh noez... I ate like 6 carrots and some asparagus.. there goes my figure... hehehe sorry had to toss in "some" smart ass comments.
 

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Pick up a copy of Alans book.

http://alanaragon.com/my-book.html

It gives really good insight into the workings of macronutrients. I purchased a copy and it really helped me tune in my diet. As a person who has a high maintanance myself, it really helped me understand how to eat.
 
SteelEntity

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Al Shades why do you even post on this ****ing forum? You are skinny, and can't gain weight no matter what you do. You don't take peoples advice. You hijack other threads talking about your problem yet still think what you do/know is 100% correct. You are a waste of everyones time. Answer this - why do you spend time posting here if all you do is dispute what everyone says, thinking what you do is correct although you are pretty much anorexic being 136@6'. Go **** off.
 
Dr Packenwood

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:think: I just added 1000 cal/d in just complex carbs about 4-5 weeks ago. I didn't really gain much weight until I started running Epistane, but I did notice I was stronger, and had more full muscle bellies. But then again, my goal is to feed the machine to get bigger.

I'm not too sure I follow the same lead. :toilet:
 
In Hulk

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6'3
190 lbs

Maintenance is somewhere around 4,000-4,500 calories... My job SUCKS. Go to college.
 

cardiffgiant

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6'3
190 lbs

Maintenance is somewhere around 4,000-4,500 calories... My job SUCKS. Go to college.
I went to college and my current job is certainly no dream job,especially the pay.Need more college(grad school)and even then money is not a given for sure,especially early on.Well at least I'm able to f around on the computer at work like now.This changes after tonight I think cause I'm being moved to another site at my wonderful company.It won't be forever so I'll live.Oh and did I mention I moved from a place I loved(near the beach-ocean)to a desert with a ton of cockroaches and the people aren't much better than bugs themselves.Well at least I hiked up a mountain lately.Life will get better for most of us I think so hang in there-i will.peace.:clean:
 
RisingAgainst

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I went to college and my current job is certainly no dream job,especially the pay.Need more college(grad school)and even then money is not a given for sure,especially early on.Well at least I'm able to f around on the computer at work like now.This changes after tonight I think cause I'm being moved to another site at my wonderful company.It won't be forever so I'll live.Oh and did I mention I moved from a place I loved(near the beach-ocean)to a desert with a ton of cockroaches and the people aren't much better than bugs themselves.Well at least I hiked up a mountain lately.Life will get better for most of us I think so hang in there-i will.peace.:clean:
Did you move to Nevada?? lol sounds like my back yard mang.
 
Skigazzi

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5' 10 1/2'' , currently at 175lbs, 3000 calories seems to maintain me at 178lbs at about 8% bf.
 
edwards

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5' 9.5 195lbs 17% BF 2400 cals a day. 40% from protein, 40% from carbs, 20% from fat.

Just because you were getting 80% of your calories from carbs and couldn't gain weight doesn't mean you should switch over to a zero carb diet. Its not all or the other. Carbs are incredibly important. Ketosis is for people trying to slim down. But it sounds like you know everything already at 6' and 135lbs
good luck
 
SteelEntity

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5' 9.5 195lbs 17% BF 2400 cals a day. 40% from protein, 40% from carbs, 20% from fat.

Just because you were getting 80% of your calories from carbs and couldn't gain weight doesn't mean you should switch over to a zero carb diet. Its not all or the other. Carbs are incredibly important. Ketosis is for people trying to slim down. But it sounds like you know everything already at 6' and 135lbs
good luck
I think Al Shades has quietly left this board trying to maintain the small amount of dignity he has left.
 

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Did you move to Nevada?? lol sounds like my back yard mang.
I'm in AZ guess they are real similar.I'm used to a real city BTW-like NYC or philly,AC for the hookers.lol.I used to live across the river from Giants Stadium when I was a kid.Took the bus to NYC for $1.
 
Al Shades

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Tons of saturated fat? No fruit or vegetables?

You're right Al, you've cracked the code! Read up guys, this is the optimal diet! And watch those carbs, you don't wanna become addicted and "burn out your adrenals!"
I ate steamed veggies for dinner several times a week for a year. Plenty of fruits, too: apples, oranges, pears, berries, and bananas.

The veggies gave me tons of gas, every night (but I didn't realize the cause until later). When I tried cooking the same meal without any carbs (including veggies), the flatuence disappeared IMMEDIATELY. That was the day I "switched", for obvious reasons. Up to that point, I was just like you - I considered ridiculous the notion that veggies could be bad for a person in any way. And I had always thought it was the protein that was giving me gas. The sites that I read later informed me that it was rotten, undigested polysaccharides in the gut. As far as vegetables are concerned, there is a food chain in nature:

Herbivores eat plants. We eat the herbivores, thus obtaining the nutrients found within those plants without having to consume them directly. This is the reason why Eskimos never developed scurvy on all-meat diets (contrary to the predictions of Western doctors) and sharks don't require multi-vitamins.

Learn something new every day, huh?

Where I am now is the result of a long progression and evolution in my knowledge. Lol, it's not as if I just went from eating a typical diet one day to eating all saturated fat the next. I eat the way I do now because I believe it's the healthiest and most anabolic way of eating.

There is something called the anabolic diet and you would do well to look it up. It specifically pertains to bodybuilders and was created by a bodybuilder/powerlifter who is also a doctor. You've probably heard his name...

Speaking of the "Optimal Diet", here's the first thing that comes up when you type that into Google:

Homo Diet Healthy Way of Eating

What do you know, it's a high-fat, moderate protein, low-carb diet established by Polish doctor Jan Kwasniewski. I happen to be Polish, and I'm only mentioning this because his was one of the sites that greatly informed me in my journey towards improving my diet.

And here's the other one:

Absolute Scientific Proof Carbohydrates Are Pathogenic.

This one will drive most people on this site absolutely NUTS. I know this because it's already happened over on bb.com. Most bodybuilders are heavily addicted to carbs, I've found.

I strongly believe that a diet high in animal fats with minimal carbs is the best way for white people to eat.
 
Al Shades

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No such thing as cutting or bulking is as stupid as the whole keto bulk BS term you already used.
I fail to see the stupidity. To be in a "keto bulk" means exactly the same thing as stating, "I'm in a caloric surplus with the bulk of my calories coming from proteins and fats".

Can you point out what, exactly, is "stupid" about that?

I think that you and some others have a problem of being confined to thinking in certain modes. You're "stuck in the box", so-to-speak. When you hear of an unconventional modality, you have an instinctive reaction of hostility that bypasses your higher mental faculties. This explains why you get so hung up on stupid **** like "keto bulk", which anyone should be able to figure out in a second using the thought process that I detailed above.

Also a lot of bodybuilders limit carbs to avoid gaining fat,they are not all carb crazy-well maybe some like in the muscletech ads using every drug under the sun including insulin and swearing that aplodan gave them the gains.Utilizing saturated fat is one of the few things you said that makes sense.Please don't give us this carbs are addictive BS either til you get a real addiction like drugs.Sorry I'm harsh and I hardly know it all but you are in need of some real learning if you wanna gain fat free mass. If eating how you do makes you happy then just keep doing it but don't think you are ketobulking cause unless you are eating even more cals then you did to put on mass with carbs then you are kidding yourself.
Don't worry about being harsh; I'm used to it. Carbs are absolutely psychologically addictive in the same manner as drugs and this is a point that I will stand by and debate with you all day. Observing the "obvious" is my area of expertise and I have a great deal of talent in this area. If you'd like me to point out the obvious effects of chronic carbohydrate consumption, to which you likely bear witness every day but have never given thought to, I will gladly do so. I work at a Trader Joe's that's right next to a Starbucks so I have the privilege of seeing carbohydrate addicts every time I'm there. I see young ones and old ones, short ones and tall ones.

I know how they look, how they act, and I can easily point out the signs to you. You may be embarassed because the clues are so obvious. Enlightmentent truly comes from studying the mundane and the everyday.
 
RisingAgainst

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I fail to see the stupidity. To be in a "keto bulk" means exactly the same thing as stating, "I'm in a caloric surplus with the bulk of my calories coming from proteins and fats".

Can you point out what, exactly, is "stupid" about that?

I think that you and some others have a problem of being confined to thinking in certain modes. You're "stuck in the box", so-to-speak. When you hear of an unconventional modality, you have an instinctive reaction of hostility that bypasses your higher mental faculties. This explains why you get so hung up on stupid **** like "keto bulk", which anyone should be able to figure out in a second using the thought process that I detailed above.



Don't worry about being harsh; I'm used to it. Carbs are absolutely psychologically addictive in the same manner as drugs and this is a point that I will stand by and debate with you all day. Observing the "obvious" is my area of expertise and I have a great deal of talent in this area. If you'd like me to point out the obvious effects of chronic carbohydrate consumption, to which you likely bear witness every day but have never given thought to, I will gladly do so. I work at a Trader Joe's that's right next to a Starbucks so I have the privilege of seeing carbohydrate addicts every time I'm there. I see young ones and old ones, short ones and tall ones.

I know how they look, how they act, and I can easily point out the signs to you. You may be embarassed because the clues are so obvious. Enlightmentent truly comes from studying the mundane and the everyday.
Anytime kiddo;

It's impossible to bulk while on a caloric defecit... if you can't figure that out, then you need to go suicidal and do the entire world a favor... I miss the old days when we regulated the population... sounds bad, but people like you only ruin society... know it all with ZERO intelligence whatsoever.
 
Al Shades

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Anytime kiddo;

It's impossible to bulk while on a caloric defecit... if you can't figure that out, then you need to go suicidal and do the entire world a favor... I miss the old days when we regulated the population... sounds bad, but people like you only ruin society... know it all with ZERO intelligence whatsoever.
Nothing I wrote implied that I was on a caloric deficit. If you thought otherwise, then you are the one who needs to be regulated.

Edit- Let's make this crystal clear.

Here's what ketosis is:

"...a stage in metabolism occurring when the liver converts fat into fatty acids and ketone bodies which can be used by the body for energy."

It follows that a ketogenic diet is one that is intended to bring about the ketogenic state of metabolism in an individual.

Now, the only relevant question here is whether or not a caloric deficit is necessary to achieve ketosis.

The scientifically correct response to that question is no.

Therefore, I am right, you are wrong, and there is no middle ground in this matter. "Keto bulk" is not a contradiction - never has been, never will be. It means precisely (100%) what I stated above.

I have every right to tell you to piss off.
 
RisingAgainst

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Nothing I wrote implied that I was on a caloric deficit. If you thought otherwise, then you are the one who needs to be regulated.

Edit- Let's make this crystal clear.

Here's what ketosis is:

"...a stage in metabolism occurring when the liver converts fat into fatty acids and ketone bodies which can be used by the body for energy."

It follows that a ketogenic diet is one that is intended to bring about the ketogenic state of metabolism in an individual.

Now, the only relevant question here is whether or not a caloric deficit is necessary to achieve ketosis.

The scientifically correct response to that question is no.

Therefore, I am right, you are wrong, and there is no middle ground in this matter. "Keto bulk" is not a contradiction - never has been, never will be. It means precisely (100%) what I stated above.

I have every right to tell you to piss off.
You can have all the extra fats and proteins you want, but eating clean enough to remain in ketosis (a state of starvation) becomes harder and harder (theoretically? NO) this is a real world FACT. The higher your caloric intake, the more chances for you to never reach ketosis. Therefore, you got proved wrong again even after you did some "studying"...
 
kabuki

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you got gas from veggies so you dropped them. that sounds terrible:toofunny: try some digestive enzymes or acidopholis?

were you eating your fruit with your protein. this will give many people digestion problems due to the process of putrefaction.

Thanks for calling me carb additcted when you know nothing about me or my diet beyond my postings encouraging you to look at more than one solution.

I do believe in carb addition, however I believe it isn't an addiction to the carbs but the insulin spike caused by the simple carbs or saturated fats. I eat hardly anything processed and live off of raw organic produce and occasionaly whole grains (not the processed whole wheat in the supermarket). Anytime i have something with just carbs i also have some fish oil or a handfull or two of almonds or walnuts to slow the digestion and eliminate the insulin spike. I do cut the fats out of my pre and post workout measl but take insulin shuttling supps prior to those (IE: GKXR, AP, or PSLIN).

How often do you have bloodwork done to evaluate what your eating effects your body? I do monthly...and can tell you (for me, and were all different) running 400g of protein a day on a low carb diet keeps my liver enzymes eleveated due to the excess protein the body can't digest.

So i'm this poor addicted carb addict because i have to be for my health...and because i'm selling myself on the corner to get another hit of broccoli and walnuts:toofunny: and even with some digestive enzymes and accidopholis i still get the occasional gas to deal with...thats just damn terrible to deal with the results of being 5'10' 250lbs with vissible abs:toofunny:

And if you think that you getting same same micronutrient densisty to maximize your results from a meats and fats diet versus a diverse diet of whole foods you are just kidding yourself.
 
kabuki

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did you ever check out my link on metabolic typing i posted a while back?

it agrees in a sense with some of what your saying and will do some analysis to see exatly where you fall in the spectrum and recomended diet.
 
Al Shades

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You can have all the extra fats and proteins you want, but eating clean enough to remain in ketosis (a state of starvation) becomes harder and harder (theoretically? NO) this is a real world FACT. The higher your caloric intake, the more chances for you to never reach ketosis. Therefore, you got proved wrong again even after you did some "studying"...
What's your point? You're not bringing any new information to the table. Nobody said it was easy. In fact, I stated precisely the opposite: that I was actually forced to deviate from my intended "keto bulk" diet by introducing carbs to compensate for my super-high maintenance.

Nevertheless, it's not impossible and certainly not if you have a normal metabolism (unlike me). I can get up to 2,500 kcal/day without a shred of carbs, maybe even more. I only added carbs in order to surpass 3,000 and head towards 4 grand.

On the T-nation forums, there are guys following the anabolic diet strictly who are taking in 5,000 calories a day. From what I understand, they're cooking a ton of meat and pouring olive oil on everything. I'm not at that level yet, but I'm working on it. From what I've seen, the majority of the people there are using it to put on weight. No reason why that can't be done, as I've already covered.

TMAGNUM FORUMS - My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

you got gas from veggies so you dropped them. that sounds terrible:toofunny: try some digestive enzymes or acidopholis?

were you eating your fruit with your protein. this will give many people digestion problems due to the process of putrefaction.

Thanks for calling me carb additcted when you know nothing about me or my diet beyond my postings encouraging you to look at more than one solution.

I do believe in carb addition, however I believe it isn't an addiction to the carbs but the insulin spike caused by the simple carbs or saturated fats. I eat hardly anything processed and live off of raw organic produce and occasionaly whole grains (not the processed whole wheat in the supermarket). Anytime i have something with just carbs i also have some fish oil or a handfull or two of almonds or walnuts to slow the digestion and eliminate the insulin spike. I do cut the fats out of my pre and post workout measl but take insulin shuttling supps prior to those (IE: GKXR, AP, or PSLIN).

How often do you have bloodwork done to evaluate what your eating effects your body? I do monthly...and can tell you (for me, and were all different) running 400g of protein a day on a low carb diet keeps my liver enzymes eleveated due to the excess protein the body can't digest.

So i'm this poor addicted carb addict because i have to be for my health...and because i'm selling myself on the corner to get another hit of broccoli and walnuts:toofunny: and even with some digestive enzymes and accidopholis i still get the occasional gas to deal with...thats just damn terrible to deal with the results of being 5'10' 250lbs with vissible abs:toofunny:

And if you think that you getting same same micronutrient densisty to maximize your results from a meats and fats diet versus a diverse diet of whole foods you are just kidding yourself.
I do take high quality digestive enzymes and probiotics. They seem to help a bit, but haven't exactly worked miracles. I have heard the advice about not combining fruit with proteins and I'm pretty sure I gave that a shot. There is some merit to that, but it's an impractical solution for me because I'd like to be getting proteins and anabolic fats at every meal. Honestly, I'm not crazy about fruit. Eating it was a pain in the ass. Half the time, it had poor flavor just due to luck of the draw. I can't get excited about eating apples anymore. Fruit has never built an athletic physique of any calibur. Fiber cuts your throat when you eat it and then proceeds to cut your insides. Starches make people **** because the body cannot absorb them. This is not a good thing. I rarely **** after eating 8 eggs with butter at breakfast because my body is absorbing up to 90% of those foods (according to the low carb site). This IS a good thing. Put two and two together and you come to the conclusion that carbs are essentially a waste product for humans, even PRIOR to consumption.

Ideally, complex carbs should be cooked well prior to consumption, and meats should be lightly cooked or even consumed raw. This is the optimal state of the human diet, putting aside the feasibility of such.

I do not recall calling you a carb addict...did I really do that? Seems strange, seeing as I have no idea what your personal diet is like. I purchased p-slin from someone on this forum (haven't received it yet). I was intending to take it pre or post workout with my huge shake that consists of whole milk, whey, and olive oil. Obviously, it's not a straight carb meal as recommended, but I imagine it's highly insulinogenic (I use about 5 cups whole milk). Have you got any opinion on that?

I've had bloodwork done about 3 times this year, but they weren't all the same tests. I'm with you on high protein consumption - I don't believe that anybody requires more than 1.5 g/lb. The high intakes used by some bodybuilders is ridiculous and it doesn't surprise me at all to learn that this would show up as elevated liver/kidney markers on blood panels.

If you are 250 at 5'10 and in good shape then I'd have to say congrats, you are probably bigger than anyone I've seen in person, and there are plenty of big guys at my gym. How long did it take you to get to that size and were you above average when you started?
 
kabuki

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i was 165 when i started training. Probably close to 10 years total of training now. The last 7 years consitently. Most of the size gains were in first few years i just train for strength during last 4-5 years and have only put on 20-30lbs during that time. Forgot i'm only 5'9" now...lost some height.

You didn't directly call me a carb addict but your statements so far insinuated that everyone else that doesn't follow your protocol, or anyone trying to point you the other direction, as a carb addict.

EDIT: why do you keep saying you have a super high abnormal metabolism? Get over it, there is nothing special holding you back. Eat, Train, Grow :)
 
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