hows this sound?

[lazerss9]

hey, im 19, 5'10" and about 125 and in college. Ive been working out on and off for about 2-2.5 years now and haven't gained more than 10 lbs. Im sure my main problem is that I'm not eating enough, but I just can't eat the volume that everyone talks about. I'm also REALLY picky, which makes it hard to get variety. My diet that I plan to start should be something like this:

630: 1/2 cup oatmeal and 1 whole egg and 1 egg white
915: Pre-w/o 3 scoops cytogainer (435 calories)
1030: Post-w/o 3 scoops cytogainer
2: 6 oz chicken breast and brown rice(1/4 cup?)
5: pb sandwich on whole wheat
8: 6 oz chicken or salmon and whole wheat pasta
1130: 1/2 cup oatmeal or a second dinner
I also take animal pak daily for a multivitamin

I'll w/o MWF and on TR I dont normally get up before 930, so on I will probably start with the 630 meal when I get up and drink a shake before bed.

I'm not sure if I can eat that much, but im always hungry and normally just eat granola bars or ritz crackers in between the main meals. Dont know if thats a decent plan, but that will be my goal for now. Hows that sound? Any suggestions for what I should do to reach the 3500-4000 calorie mark?

Also, could I do bike rides or other cardio 2-3X/week?

 

[MentalTwitch]

Get rid of PreWO CytoG and move it to prebedtime shake. PWO make sure you have the shake right away and then a meal within 30min. I put on 15 in 2years. I lived on Whole Wheat PBJs, Tuna, Chicken, Steak, Greens, Eggs, Shakes, Milk and Pasta. Lots of carbs and whole foods. Lots of H2O. Timing is key though, dont just got nuts on food. Lift heavy.

 

[fasthumpman]

can you work out more than just mwf? plus i would ditch the cardio. maybe once a week tops. especially if your a hard gainer

 

[MentalTwitch]

can you work out more than just mwf? plus i would ditch the cardio. maybe once a week tops. especially if your a hard gainer

For sure. Cardio and bulking dont mix well. Now 1 time or 2 light sessions is ok becasue blood flow is good. I mean like 5-8 minutes of a jog. Make sure you break enough between set, 1-2 minutes.
EDIT: Maybe add one more day of lifting and skip cardio, it is what i do. If i fel like im "gettin away from myself" i just go for a little jog at night or the next morn.

 

[lazerss9]

ya, i was thinking I might want to add an extra day, maybe Saturday and Thursday? i figured i shouldn't do a lot of cardio, but i want to stay in shape, so i guess it's a trade off. How's this for a workout?

M: Chest & Tris
Cable x-over 3/15
Decline Barbell Press 4/10
Flat-Bench Dumbbell Press 4/10
Incline Dumbbell Flye 3/15
Skull Crushers 4/10
Reverse Grip Tri Pushdowns 4/10
Dips 2/failure

W: Back & Bis
Deadlift 4/10
Bent-Over Row 4/10
Seated Row 4/10
Pullups 3/Failure
Barbell Curls 4/10
Hammer Curls 4/12
Reverse Grip Preacher Curl 4/10

F : Legs
Leg Press 4/12
Leg Extension 4/10
Leg Curls 4/10
Standing Calf Raises 4/15

S: Shoulders & Arms
Military Press 4/10
Lateral Raises 4/10
Frontal Raises 4/10
Dumbbell Curls 4/12
Preacher Curls 4/12
Tri Pushdowns 4/12
Dips 3/failure

Any supps I should add? I have creatine, but I think it adds more water weight than anything. Plus, the cytogainer already has like 2g creatine per serving. I'm running low on cytogainer, should I switch it up, and if so, what should I get?

 

[fasthumpman]

ya, i was thinking I might want to add an extra day, maybe Saturday and Thursday? i figured i shouldn't do a lot of cardio, but i want to stay in shape, so i guess it's a trade off. How's this for a workout?

M: Chest & Tris
Cable x-over 3/15
Decline Barbell Press 4/10
Flat-Bench Dumbbell Press 4/10
Incline Dumbbell Flye 3/15
Skull Crushers 4/10
Reverse Grip Tri Pushdowns 4/10
Dips 2/failure

W: Back & Bis
Deadlift 4/10
Bent-Over Row 4/10
Seated Row 4/10
Pullups 3/Failure
Barbell Curls 4/10
Hammer Curls 4/12
Reverse Grip Preacher Curl 4/10

F : Legs
Leg Press 4/12
Leg Extension 4/10
Leg Curls 4/10
Standing Calf Raises 4/15

S: Shoulders & Arms
Military Press 4/10
Lateral Raises 4/10
Frontal Raises 4/10
Dumbbell Curls 4/12
Preacher Curls 4/12
Tri Pushdowns 4/12
Dips 3/failure

Any supps I should add? I have creatine, but I think it adds more water weight than anything. Plus, the cytogainer already has like 2g creatine per serving. I'm running low on cytogainer, should I switch it up, and if so, what should I get?

my only suggestion is that if your trying to bulk.... doing sets of 10 and 12 is not the answer. i would be doing sets of 5 or 6 max. maybe 8 but i would stick to the smaller number of reps and ALOT MORE WEIGHT. its kindof like building a car. you put the big block in it first... and then add all the bells and whistles. stupid analogy i know but it gets the point across. another thing i might suggest is if you can work out just one more day ----- do your biceps and triceps together. i feel like if i do triceps on the same day as chest that there already fatigued and i dont get as good as work out in. and same as biceps. workin out the back puts alot of stress on your biceps so when it comes time to work them out there already a little tired/stressed. all in all you got a good plan the most important thing is still your diet. weights come next. as for supps i would just stick to real clean diet and that cytogainer. ive been using cytogainer since day one and have never let it go. ive tried numerous weight gainers and its my number one choice. take it easy bro

 

[lazerss9]

thanks for the advice. anyone else think i should stick with the low rep high weight? is the 6-8 rep range good? i tried that for a couple months, but i didn't really notice much, if any, in strength or weight gains, but im more than willing to give it another shot.

fasthumpman- are u saying that i should do:
M-Chest,W-Back,R-Arms,F-Legs,S-Shoulders & Amrs
I thought the suggested w/o was kind of what you were saying, since doing chest & tris wears the tris out a little, and then the arm day really wears them out. same for biceps with back. either way would be fine by me.

 

[fasthumpman]

thanks for the advice. anyone else think i should stick with the low rep high weight? is the 6-8 rep range good? i tried that for a couple months, but i didn't really notice much, if any, in strength or weight gains, but im more than willing to give it another shot.

fasthumpman- are u saying that i should do:
M-Chest,W-Back,R-Arms,F-Legs,S-Shoulders & Amrs
I thought the suggested w/o was kind of what you were saying, since doing chest & tris wears the tris out a little, and then the arm day really wears them out. same for biceps with back. either way would be fine by me.

i would definitally give it another shot. you got to stick with it for longer than a few months. some people take a loooong time to show results but theres so many variables such as body type, your diet...things like that. as for the workout i like to do this.

chest
back
biceps/triceps
legs
shoulders
off
start cycle over

you can do calves, forearms, and abs everyday if you wanted to but i prefer everyother day on these. basically your going back and forth with push/pull movements and this is where i found my best results. look around in the training forum there are many other good work out routines and you might find one that suites you better.

 

[MentalTwitch]

It's useless IMO to do forearms and abs everyday. Calves i can understand but even then poor idea. When you do forearms you're weakening your pull lifts. Abs is core so you're weakening everything if you do that to much. Calves are just killer to have sore all the time. I would say split, push/pull/core. It just makes sense. On a bulk you definetly need to make sure you give enough recoverytime. I would also agree on 6-8 reps 8-10 at most.

 

[lazerss9]

thanks for the advice guys. i plan on starting tomorrow and will re-evaluate my progress every month with a slightly different routine and keep a log to keep me motivated.

 

[Dr29]

ya, i was thinking I might want to add an extra day, maybe Saturday and Thursday? i figured i shouldn't do a lot of cardio, but i want to stay in shape, so i guess it's a trade off. How's this for a workout?

M: Chest & Tris
Cable x-over 3/15
Decline Barbell Press 4/10
Flat-Bench Dumbbell Press 4/10
Incline Dumbbell Flye 3/15
Skull Crushers 4/10
Reverse Grip Tri Pushdowns 4/10
Dips 2/failure

W: Back & Bis
Deadlift 4/10
Bent-Over Row 4/10
Seated Row 4/10
Pullups 3/Failure
Barbell Curls 4/10
Hammer Curls 4/12
Reverse Grip Preacher Curl 4/10

F : Legs
Leg Press 4/12
Leg Extension 4/10
Leg Curls 4/10
Standing Calf Raises 4/15

S: Shoulders & Arms
Military Press 4/10
Lateral Raises 4/10
Frontal Raises 4/10
Dumbbell Curls 4/12
Preacher Curls 4/12
Tri Pushdowns 4/12
Dips 3/failure

Any supps I should add? I have creatine, but I think it adds more water weight than anything. Plus, the cytogainer already has like 2g creatine per serving. I'm running low on cytogainer, should I switch it up, and if so, what should I get?

Your routine sucks for gaining mass. This is the sort of routine that doesn't work for hard-gainers (I'm assuming your one.

You should be doing something like:
M - Upper Body
W - Lower Body
F - Upper Body

If your really gungho, you can do 2 lower body workouts a week.

Things like "lateral raises" are isolation exercises which are not ideal for a skinny guy. You need to do heavy, compound exercises.

No Squats on Leg day? You need to Squat, Deadlift, BOR, Military Press etc. Try a 5 X 5 routine.

 

[Dr29]

I also don't think too much of weight-gainers. Its alot of sugar and they are overpriced.

I recommend
(1) Fish Oil
(2) A Good Whey protein.
(3) Muscle Milk
(4) Greens + Supplement
(4) Food. Supplements are just that. To "supplement" a diet. You need to eat like your life depends on it. Drink lots of water. Eat your vegetables.

 

[lazerss9]

i agree w/1 and 4, but cytogainer only has 7 g sugar, 6 fat, 75 carb, 54 protein and 570 calories, so it definately helps me get up to the calorie numbers im tryin to reach. i think it even goes up another 100 calories when i make it with milk instead of water. those are the basic numbers i would get from muscle milk and whey protein right? and its not really that expensive either. i would think it would cost more to get the thing of muscle milk and whey protein. plus i just got another container so i wont be changing for about a month or so. i might consider it when i run out tho...

what all is in fish oil besides the omega fatty acids? i have animal pak which has linoleic and oleic acids listed as its essential fatty acids. its a pack of 11 pills, so id rather not have to take anymore pills if i can help it. so are those the basic ingredients in fish oil, or should i consider getting a bottle of fish oil pills?

 

[MentalTwitch]

Cytogainer is a good bang for the buck for sure. Muscle Milk is good too, IMO
Also though, i'd say drop the Animal Pak. 11 pills is alot for one set of daily vitamins. Look into NOW and i personally like MegaMan sport(i know GNC) but i havent had a chance to decide on what to switch too. Fish oils are good for digestion and they are the fats you use to burn.
I don't mind taking pills but there is definetly a point of overkill.
MegaMan is 2 pills but i split them through the day.
Fish Oils/Omega-3 complex is 2-3 servings(1 pill) daily
Then whatever else you have, joint support, creatine, BCAAs, etc. Although powders are the way to go.

 

[lazerss9]

Your routine sucks for gaining mass. This is the sort of routine that doesn't work for hard-gainers (I'm assuming your one.

You should be doing something like:
M - Upper Body
W - Lower Body
F - Upper Body

If your really gungho, you can do 2 lower body workouts a week.

Things like "lateral raises" are isolation exercises which are not ideal for a skinny guy. You need to do heavy, compound exercises.

No Squats on Leg day? You need to Squat, Deadlift, BOR, Military Press etc. Try a 5 X 5 routine.

thats a lil harsh dont u think? anyways, whats ur reasoning for this? and second what kind of w/o would u recommend? are u saying to skip basically all the exercises dealing w/the arms and just do chest, back and leg exercies? ie: just presses, crossovers, rows, pullups, deadlifts and squats? if so, anybody else agree? i thought the general consensus earlier was that this routine was ok?

 

[Dr29]

thats a lil harsh dont u think? anyways, whats ur reasoning for this? and second what kind of w/o would u recommend? are u saying to skip basically all the exercises dealing w/the arms and just do chest, back and leg exercies? ie: just presses, crossovers, rows, pullups, deadlifts and squats? if so, anybody else agree? i thought the general consensus earlier was that this routine was ok?

Ok. When you do a chest exercise or a back exercise, what do you think your working along with those two parts? Your arms!

For example, when I do a dip, I'm not JUST working my chest. I'm working my triceps, my biceps, my shoulders as well.

The Squat is the KING of all exercises. When you Squat, your not just doing legs. Your doing your back as well.

My reasoning is years of study demonstrating that your workout you posted is not for skinny guys. That's a body-builder type routine or atleast one that an endo or mesomorph would do and not one an ectomorph like me and you.

I highly recommend
defrancostraining.com/articles/archive/articles_westside.htm

You need to build a nice base of strength prior to doing a bunch of isolation exercises that aren't ideal for you.

 

[MentalTwitch]

On a bulk it's just alot to do all upper and all lower. I would try
Day 1 - Back & Bi's
Deads
Rows
Good AMs
Pulldowns
EZ Bar Curls
Cable Curls
Day 2 - Chest, Tri's and core.
Dumbell press
Cable Crossovers or Flys
Incline bench next week switch with decline also switch from bench to DBs everyweek or so.
Dips
Skull crushers
Crunches/leg raises
Day 3 - Legs & shoulders/neck(traps)
Squats
Lunges
Smith Calf raises
Military DB Press
Side laterall raises
Shrugs
Facepulls
Now it isn't meant to do days in a row. i would actually say after back day, give2 days rest and 2 after legs. I know i give it alot on back days and leg days, always sore. Dont be afraid to skip a day and push everything back a bit. To bulk up you need to recover well and go heavy low reps. I have been on this basic routine for a bit now(change things here and there everyweek) but feeling swole and getting compliments more often. Eating habits have maintained exactlt the same, tiny things here or there but not much at all. A co-Worker actually was rubbing and touching my arms and shoulders alot on lunch, just smiling. Eat Big. Lift Big. Get Big. :clean:

 

[lazerss9]

Ok. When you do a chest exercise or a back exercise, what do you think your working along with those two parts? Your arms!

For example, when I do a dip, I'm not JUST working my chest. I'm working my triceps, my biceps, my shoulders as well.

The Squat is the KING of all exercises. When you Squat, your not just doing legs. Your doing your back as well.

My reasoning is years of study demonstrating that your workout you posted is not for skinny guys. That's a body-builder type routine or atleast one that an endo or mesomorph would do and not one an ectomorph like me and you.

I highly recommend
defrancostraining.com/articles/archive/articles_westside.htm

You need to build a nice base of strength prior to doing a bunch of isolation exercises that aren't ideal for you.

that guy sounds pretty legit, so i guess ill give that a try. i sent him an email, asking more about my specific goals and about adding a second lower body day, so hopefully hell respond. anyways, i guess that im not working out today. next day is thursday and then saturday.

 

[Dr29]

hey, im 19, 5'10" and about 125 and in college. Ive been working out on and off for about 2-2.5 years now and haven't gained more than 10 lbs. Im sure my main problem is that I'm not eating enough, but I just can't eat the volume that everyone talks about. I'm also REALLY picky, which makes it hard to get variety. "

(1) Stop being picky. Your 19. Everything (with the exception of aspharagus which I will always hate) is delicious. Eat it.

(2) I'm 5'10 and 175. If your 125, you must be mad skinny. If you have been working out for about 2 years and ONLY gained 10 lbs, you aren't working out correctly.

(3) Eclipse Gym :: View topic - Bill Starr 5x5 Primer - How to create your own 5x5 program
Try this routine. Don't use Defranco's just yet.

(4) You aren't eating enough food. If you can't find the discipline to eat constantly (and clean), you are never going to get big.

(5) No more cardio. You can do a warm up (like running on a treadmill for 5 minutes) prior to your workouts but that's it.

You need to start eating. Did I mention that? Food is the ticket.

 

[lazerss9]

hey, im 19, 5'10" and about 125 and in college. Ive been working out on and off for about 2-2.5 years now and haven't gained more than 10 lbs. Im sure my main problem is that I'm not eating enough, but I just can't eat the volume that everyone talks about. I'm also REALLY picky, which makes it hard to get variety. "

(1) Stop being picky. Your 19. Everything (with the exception of aspharagus which I will always hate) is delicious. Eat it.

(2) I'm 5'10 and 175. If your 125, you must be mad skinny. If you have been working out for about 2 years and ONLY gained 10 lbs, you aren't working out correctly.

(3) Eclipse Gym :: View topic - Bill Starr 5x5 Primer - How to create your own 5x5 program
Try this routine. Don't use Defranco's just yet.

(4) You aren't eating enough food. If you can't find the discipline to eat constantly (and clean), you are never going to get big.

(5) No more cardio. You can do a warm up (like running on a treadmill for 5 minutes) prior to your workouts but that's it.

You need to start eating. Did I mention that? Food is the ticket.

ive been working out ON AND OFF for 2 years, and about 6 months of that was serious, and i gained about 20 lbs(weighed myself the other day and im 135).

"If you can't find the discipline to eat constantly (and clean)" when did i say that? my problem is gonna be eating enough, not staying clean. im sure im eating at least 3000 a day, but need to up that to atleast 3500. im picky. thats not gonna change. i try sh!t, but dont like most of it.

i guess ill check out that website and see wats up.