Bulking Phase questions please leave your opinion

fireoverture

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Well, my first post here, so PLEASE bear with me. I am 22, at 6'2'' and 200 pounds. The most I have even weighed is 215 and this was in 2002 before I blew out my elbow.

I will try to keep this short. I am working on bulking up some. So, I have started increasing my food intake. Been eating alot of chicken breast, eggs, etc. Been eating often, every 3-4 hours. The only supps I'm using a Creatine, a good multi, Glutamine, vitamin C, cytomax, and several protein powders. I have some Techline Provision 6, and a bunch of other whey protein that I bought when GNC had this big sale. My thing is, none of these have any carbs in. How do I get my carb intake higher? I do need more carbs correct?

NOTE: I blew my right elbow in 2002, so I am running 2x10-12 on all exercises just for now. Any suggestions for improved set/rep schemes would be nice.
I am lifting Chest/Tris, Back/Bis, Legs.. and then one day off. For instance:

Chest/Tris
Dumbbell Bench Press
Flye Machine
French Press "skullcrushers"
V Bar Pressdowns

Back/Bis
Standing EZ Bar Curls
Seated Dumbbell Curls
Lat Pulldown
Seated Row
Rear Deltoid Flyes

Legs
Squats
Leg Extensions
Leg Curls
Calf Raises
Abdominal Circuit

I would be interested in hearing what you guys think would be a good improvement to this, as this is something I just thought of.

Pre workout I eat 1/2 cup of oatmeal, and take some protein powder, Whey Iso Burst by GNC (one scoop). Then shortly after, I take some Cytomax. Then I bike to the gym, about .7 miles, it takes me 8 minutes.

Post workout. 16oz apple juice (using the apple juice to try and create an insulin spike for the creatine). Creatine (Creatine Burst by GNC) with 12 oz water, which I add 5 grams of pure Glutamine to. Then I have some Mega Whey Extreme by GNC (60grams protein) no carbs.

I drink all those things really fast, to try and get everything into my system as soon as I get home, because of the bike ride. I only spend about 30 minutes in the gym, but it takes me an hour between home and gym and home again. So, 1 hour without food, with 30 mins of exercise.

So, my question is, what suggestions do you guys have? What am I doing wrong?

My typical diet is waking up and eating 6 eggs, then I go into work. Then a little while later, I might drink around 16 ounces of milk. About 2 hours later, I might eat a chicken breast. My problem is, it is hard for me to think of what to eat, especially when it comes to carbs, because all of everything I have, has no carbs in it. I also have a box of Pure Protein Bars right now, the tiniest bit of Kreakyln left over, and some Dymatize Expand that is sitting on the floor, as it made me feel odd.

Sorry, I am rambling, and tired, and can't think straight, and probally am the worst writer on this forum. But, hopefully you guys have some kind of suggestion and understood part of what I was saying. I work nightshift, so it is bedtime for me now. Thanks in advance.

-T
 
livebono

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you should try to bring your protein powder to the gym, so you can get it in your system faster, and you aren't waiting too long for it

carbs are good to bulk, but make sure they are carbs from whole food sources and not sugars

a good size meal about an hour postworkout will help too

also, try a casein shake before sleeping
 

fireoverture

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thats a good idea

Great suggestion, I considered it once but, the question is, what is more important right after training, as I can't take both the creatine and the glutamine, and the whey protein before I bike back to my house, or I will hurl? lol Which is most important, the whey I have has no carbs in it. The creatine I have has no sugar, hence the apple juice.

Noted on the whole foods. Like pasta and oatmeal I guess.

Noted on the meal postworkout after an hour.

And before bed I use the Provision 6, which has 6 different types of protein, the slowest digesting being that of the micellar cassein, but overall it is only 28 grams of protein, which is broke apart by 6 into whey isolate, whey concentrate, milk isolate, egg albumen, calcium caseinate, micellar casein. So, I suppose that is good?

Thanks for the suggestions so far, they have made me make some notes, and begun planning ahead so far. Thank you.

-T
 
livebono

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No problem, the before bed protein you have sounds good

In my opinion, the protein is most important postworkout, and if the glutamine is in powder form, you can even mix it in

creatine can also be taken preworkout
 

Moyer

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It's all about the calories man. You're concentrating too much on supps and protein. At 200lbs, 200g Protein/450g Carbs/90g Fat is a good start. Maybe 20-40g more protein if you're not too full.

All you have for breakfast is 6 eggs? Where's the carbs man? Have some oatmeal, cereal, or a couple pieces of toast with that. Breakfast & both pre/post workout are the best times for carbs (any time is ok though, you should have some with every meal).

As far as your routine, a lot of people find better results by working out each muscle more than once a week. Also, you may try switching your major exercises (Squats, DB Bench, Pulldowns or Rows) to 5-6 reps for a while if it doesn't bother your elbow. It's important to do both high rep & low rep exercises.
 

fireoverture

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implementing changes now

Thanks, you two, I have implemented the following changes. I added 3/4 cup oats to my breakfast. So I now have 6 eggs and 3/4 cup of oatmeal for breakfast. I can use all the suggestions you guys would have to offer, and I appreciate it so far. I actually didn't feel sleepy and groggy today for once, since I had to oatmeal this morning.

Anyone else have any suggestions for me. You guys have been a great help so far. I will try to do some lower rep range sets in a week or two when I feel more "sure and safe" with my elbow, I will keep this in mind, and I hope on being able to do that.

Any other suggestions?
 
livebono

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Thanks, you two, I have implemented the following changes. I added 3/4 cup oats to my breakfast. So I now have 6 eggs and 3/4 cup of oatmeal for breakfast. I can use all the suggestions you guys would have to offer, and I appreciate it so far. I actually didn't feel sleepy and groggy today for once, since I had to oatmeal this morning.

Anyone else have any suggestions for me. You guys have been a great help so far. I will try to do some lower rep range sets in a week or two when I feel more "sure and safe" with my elbow, I will keep this in mind, and I hope on being able to do that.

Any other suggestions?
Be patient and consistent, it'll come:bb3:
 
SMOKEPALADIN

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whole grain bagels and cottege cheese!
Thats what i was gonna say!
For your routine you might want to look at a HST based, this will probably be easy on your elbow, and decent mass gains too.
 

fireoverture

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Update on progress

Update for you all, I am now weighing in at 209 pounds, 6'2''. I was just 195 two weeks ago though. I have been told this should be water?? But I look more cut up now that before.

I have made the proper modifications to my diet, and my metabolism is now running rather fast.

Also I changed up my training, so that it now goes as follows.

Monday: Chest, Tris, Abs
Tuesday: Back and Bis
Wed: OFF
Thursday: Legs
Friday: Shoulders, Abs
Sat: OFF
Sun: OFF

This seems to be more natural to me. The exercises I am rotating through many. Last week I did all free weights. This week I am doing all machines. I am going to try and alter every aspect of my training to see what my body responds best too. So far I have kept the set/rep scheme constant on most exercise at 3x10-12 and this is working well. The last measurement on biceps was 17inches (not pumped), when it was 16 inches 2 weeks ago.

I am keeping a training log of all weights and reps, and comments for each exercise. My elbow is doing well, and it is holding up so far, I am emphasizing strict form and still working to failure but not comprising my joints.

All in all, I am doing very well now, and I appreciate the suggestions so far, as they are helping much. OH, and chicken breast fillets and brown rice is pretty much my staple food, except 6eggs with oats in the morning, and umm,... I added the bagel postworkout with 60g of protein and 5g glutamine and 5 g creatine.

I appreciate the suggestions if you guys have anymore. I am curious if there is anything to improve. Also, I am curious as to how I could add 14 pounds in 2 weeks????? How can this be water, when I look more cut up now that before?? Is it possible that my test levels could be unnaturally high since I started eating alot and lifting again. In 2000-2002 I did use alot of precursor hormone products (all the andros/norandros/etc). I also at some point used T-Bomb in 2002 for awhile. That is the only thing that I could think would mess with my hormone levels. I am having alot of back hairs come up, and alot of deep surface acne, specifically on my back. So, I was curious if anyone had anything thoughts. I am taking nothing whatsoever to alter hormones. I am using Creatine, Glutamine, Whey, Cassein, Eggs, eating good, eating 6 eggs every morning. So, Im curious if anyone has any thoughts, its like going through puberty all over again... lol. Anyways, dont bust my arse to hard for this question, its rather odd.

Thanks for the help in advance.. you guys are the best.

-T
 
livebono

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Update for you all, I am now weighing in at 209 pounds, 6'2''. I was just 195 two weeks ago though. I have been told this should be water?? But I look more cut up now that before.

I have made the proper modifications to my diet, and my metabolism is now running rather fast.

Also I changed up my training, so that it now goes as follows.

Monday: Chest, Tris, Abs
Tuesday: Back and Bis
Wed: OFF
Thursday: Legs
Friday: Shoulders, Abs
Sat: OFF
Sun: OFF

This seems to be more natural to me. The exercises I am rotating through many. Last week I did all free weights. This week I am doing all machines. I am going to try and alter every aspect of my training to see what my body responds best too. So far I have kept the set/rep scheme constant on most exercise at 3x10-12 and this is working well. The last measurement on biceps was 17inches (not pumped), when it was 16 inches 2 weeks ago.

I am keeping a training log of all weights and reps, and comments for each exercise. My elbow is doing well, and it is holding up so far, I am emphasizing strict form and still working to failure but not comprising my joints.

All in all, I am doing very well now, and I appreciate the suggestions so far, as they are helping much. OH, and chicken breast fillets and brown rice is pretty much my staple food, except 6eggs with oats in the morning, and umm,... I added the bagel postworkout with 60g of protein and 5g glutamine and 5 g creatine.

I appreciate the suggestions if you guys have anymore. I am curious if there is anything to improve. Also, I am curious as to how I could add 14 pounds in 2 weeks????? How can this be water, when I look more cut up now that before?? Is it possible that my test levels could be unnaturally high since I started eating alot and lifting again. In 2000-2002 I did use alot of precursor hormone products (all the andros/norandros/etc). I also at some point used T-Bomb in 2002 for awhile. That is the only thing that I could think would mess with my hormone levels. I am having alot of back hairs come up, and alot of deep surface acne, specifically on my back. So, I was curious if anyone had anything thoughts. I am taking nothing whatsoever to alter hormones. I am using Creatine, Glutamine, Whey, Cassein, Eggs, eating good, eating 6 eggs every morning. So, Im curious if anyone has any thoughts, its like going through puberty all over again... lol. Anyways, dont bust my arse to hard for this question, its rather odd.

Thanks for the help in advance.. you guys are the best.

-T
First off, congrats! It's always exciting to make some good, clean gains!

As far as the hormone stuff, the andro that you took several years ago is long out of your system, so there's no reason to suspect that it has anything to do with it. And by now your body would have self-regulated in the absence of other pro-hormones.

I do know that the body will naturally increases test production as a result of heavy workouts, so my guess would be that you test levels are up naturally due to the clean eating and heavy lifting. Enjoy it, and keep the gains coming!
 

fireoverture

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what next

Alright.. wonderful. I realize that they are out of my system but I always felt like they "altered" my system in some odd way. Yeah yeah.. i know.. i was stupid... could do blood work. So, alright, I just suppose I will say that all is well, until something says otherwise. I've reached the point where muscles are failing to get sore now, no matter if I reach failure, do drop sets... do negatives etc. Odd that I remember not having severe DOMS when I started lifting before, like the muscle eventually doesn't get sore.. but you know it still is repairing the day after, cuz you seriously beat the **** out of it.

Anyways though, I'm rambling... Now, I am curious as to what you guys would suggest for the next best supplement to add with what I already have. I know this is going to be a matter of each persons opinion.... and that is great, I'm just curious what would be the best to continue adding on solid muscle..... Trib?? ZMA??? DHEA???. I'm at a loss here and really don't have a ton of cash to drop on other stuff, but let me know what you guys think.

There is much that is wrote on here about DHEA and pct.. but what about just supping with DHEA?? Thanks again for the help.
 
livebono

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I don't care for DHEA, unless it's being used with post cycle therapy. I think you'd get better results from trib than ZMA. Both are good though. There are lots of different types of trib out there, so shop around. I've not used much of it, so I'm sure there are those out there that would have a better idea of what would be best.
 

fireoverture

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a second too late

AH.. man.. I wish I had not went to the store now. I was eyeballing this bottle of Trib, but I wasn't sure, so I went with the ZMA. It was pretty cheap, I was also thinking about making the ZMA myself by using a 11:450:30 ratio of B6/Magnesium/Zinc, but I wasn't sure on the best type of Mag and Zinc to use. But the stuff was cheap, so I just picked it up. The Tribulus I think was standardized at 45% saponins, and I wasn't sure about how well Trib actually worked. I tend to be highly sensitive to supplements, and I felt a bit snappy today, well actually pretty snappy, but nothing crazy. Who knows though, it might just have been me. Still feel like I'm going through puberty again...lol. I was eyeballing some 3 indole carbinol... any thoughts on whether or not that would be helpful? I don't really want to screw over my hormones too much. I know... I need to do more research on it... but I just figured I would toss that in here.

I posted another thread in the supplement section, as I was curious about the effects of calcium in protein cancelling out the zinc.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/61745-creatine-glutamine-zma.html
 
livebono

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AH.. man.. I wish I had not went to the store now. I was eyeballing this bottle of Trib, but I wasn't sure, so I went with the ZMA. It was pretty cheap, I was also thinking about making the ZMA myself by using a 11:450:30 ratio of B6/Magnesium/Zinc, but I wasn't sure on the best type of Mag and Zinc to use. But the stuff was cheap, so I just picked it up. The Tribulus I think was standardized at 45% saponins, and I wasn't sure about how well Trib actually worked. I tend to be highly sensitive to supplements, and I felt a bit snappy today, well actually pretty snappy, but nothing crazy. Who knows though, it might just have been me. Still feel like I'm going through puberty again...lol. I was eyeballing some 3 indole carbinol... any thoughts on whether or not that would be helpful? I don't really want to screw over my hormones too much. I know... I need to do more research on it... but I just figured I would toss that in here.

I posted another thread in the supplement section, as I was curious about the effects of calcium in protein cancelling out the zinc.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/61745-creatine-glutamine-zma.html
Making your own ZMA would work, but zinc depletes copper, so you'd want that in there as well. because of that, sometimes it's just easier to get a pre-made ZMA. I'm not familiar with 3 indole carbinol, so perhaps someone who knows about it can chime in
 

fireoverture

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copper depletion?

Let see, you were saying about copper depletion? Is it necessary to supp Copper with a true ZMA formula. The stuff I bought does not contain copper, and my multi has like 50mcg, which is not much. Or does the standard ZMA not leach copper? Thanks for the input... I might go eat some pennies...lol... just kidding. Thanks though.

Update as of going to the gym today... Weight was 212 pounds... This is getting rather odd, as I do not see fat coming on, I really need to buy a caliper though, I know. Just thought I would give the update.
 

fireoverture

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Update

Well, the update is that my body weight was 212.5 pounds on Saturday. I'm beginning to feel like I have a damn baby...lol. I'm assuming this is bloating due to plain crea monohydrate??
My arms and shoulders look much better, however my stomach feels like it is expanding or getting fatty. I am getting about 10 g total of crea mono a day 5g preworkout and 5g post. I'm just curious because I don't want to have to try and get rid of this bloating thing later. My water intake is SUPER high... maybe too much water, and my sodium intake is almost non-existant. I don't like the idea of adding fat, as it seems the last time I added fat while bulking I lost all the weight when I cut, and was pretty much right back at the beginning. So, I am trying to bulk cleanly. Any thoughts here would be nice. I am still using the ZMA and I find that it is increasing test levels based upon ... umm... my "desires"..lol. Also, it seems that muscle hardness is improved some as well.
Oh, and as a side note... this much food makes you gaseous, so I am taking acidophilus twice daily, and also the protein I have contains digestive enzymes. I also just finished up some Papaya Enzymes that seemed to help.

Thanks in advance

-T
 
Vicarious

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Monohydrate will bloat you like crazy if thats how you respond. try switching it out for another kind. it never really bothered me but some people on here can't take it all. I'm not using anyting right now. the food is working just fine
 
livebono

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You may just want to decrease the creatine intake for a while, to see how that goes.

otherwise, you can try an esterified creatine to avoid the bloating, but from my experience, monohydrate is better for gaining size
 

fireoverture

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i will try and tweak this some more

I am going to try and play around with this some. I'm not sure whether it was the creatine or the veggies that I had that is causing this, but from eating so much all the time, I think that perhaps my stomach is getting "irritated" or something. The creatine is clearly adding water weight to my stomach. Sorry to say this, but umm... I have to for clarity sake. All night last night I had the most awful stomach pain and gas, probally because I ate a ton of peas and brocolli, and then I had the ****s all night. I took acidophilus throughout the day to try and slow this down, I went into the gym, all dried up of course, weighed in at 211 pounds, which is 1.5 pounds less than 2 days ago, and proceeded to hit the weights for about an hour, just chest and tris and abs. At the end, I checked weight again, was an even 209 pounds. This little bout with the ****s, showed me just how much water this creatine was holding, perhaps bloating from the crea... and bloating from the veggies. That extra 3.5 pound difference was all water, and lo and behold there was my old 6 pack hiding under all that water, which I thought I would never see again. So.... with that being said, I AM A WATERTANK.

Now my question is, should I cut back on water intake... I drink A TON of water. Was worried about too much creatinine in the body.

Even though the bloating is uncomfortable, is it in anyway harmful? As long as it is water... I don't mind as long as it will go away.. like it did today. I don't really want to throw out the 8 pound jug of crea that I have.

Thanks again

-T
 
xtraflossy

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Personally, I don't drink massave amounts of water in the quantity you guys are probably doing. Creatine also wont make you huge.. sure, you will hold water, and the hydration is important for many things, but the thought of tring t oblow myself up with water and creatin just seems "fake" to me.
On that note, I DO take CEE. I can "load" it and feel the difference, but the amount seems high too me.
I SEEM to only be able to hold 3lbs of water MAX- when skied up on mono. Not sure about CEE exactly. BUT, I have noticed I dont get bloated with CEE. I take it before, durring and after workouts. (durring, I empty 1.5 grams into my water).
Personally, (and I stress personally becasue there are many reasons for me to think like this) but I rely on Creatine for strength/endurence in the gym, and hopefully, to some extent calorie sparing.
Anything beyond that, and there are obvious signs somethign is being thrown off. (either majjor bloating, sub-c water storrage, or it throws off my weight measurements to the point where it masks gains to much to calibrate everything else....
 

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