Bulking up without getting fat
- 08-08-2006, 06:18 PM
- 08-08-2006, 06:28 PM
Up your calories from maintanence by small amounts, e.g. +200kcal over maintanence and then tweak your calorie intake and diet until you're only making lean gains.
Adding cardio also helps fight off fat on a bulking diet. Just a tip- try using the search function, often you'll find what you're looking for that way.
08-08-2006, 07:21 PM
08-08-2006, 09:59 PM
I think it really depends on the type of cardio. High-intensity cardio, such as running / jogging for 45 minutes is probably going to have a greater chance of eating up muscle than powerwalking for 45minutes. I believe walking burns up more fat, where as running would dip into glucose, muscle and fat. It is a fine balance.Originally Posted by azzer2000
If you are capable of monitoring what you eat down to the macro nutrient level (protein, carbs, fat, total cals, etc) then you should be able to control fat gain that way.
08-09-2006, 06:04 PM
That's an outright lie, myth, dispicable rumor, etc that has bodybuilders getting fatter than they have to. Belive me I was one of the 'no cardio while bulking' people for a long time - what a mistake!!cheers, i was woried the cardio, would make me lose weight, and muscle
20 minutes of moderate cardio training postworkout is not going to do anything but good for you. It will help keep the fat off, aid recovery, and increase your endurance and cardiovascular health. If your diet is right, you shouldnt lose any muscle. Now, 60+ minutes of cardio every day might be a different story - but in moderation, everyone should be doing their cardio. At least 20min 3x per week, IMO.
Ziricote gave good advice in small, incremental increasing of caloric intake in order to promote lean gains. You can also implement strategies like caloric and carb tapering to help minimize fat gain...and as much as I hate to admit it I think its a big help to work out first thing in the morning and plan your meals around that AM training session.
08-09-2006, 06:22 PM
The thing is that running for 45 mins will expend more energy than 45 mins of fast walking so they are not really comparable. For the same energy expenditure, when intensity goes up, duration comes down. So although higher intensity activity will source a greater amount of energy from glucose, because the duration is less, it does not necessarily mean that more muscle will be consumed.Originally Posted by BigCasino
I prefer shorter high intensity interval training sessions. These keep BMR up by stimulating adaptation and also improve cardio.
Ziricote made a good point about using small energy surpluses in order to make lean gains. Additionally, sourcing more of your calories through protein may help to keep the fat off. Just be aware that everything has a trade off; size and strength gains from a lean bulk will be slower.
08-09-2006, 07:09 PM
Yep, but totally worth in IMO. There's no waste of time like a 10-month cut because you became some bulked out freakasaur trying to get as big as possible and not caring if your abs disappeared.Just be aware that everything has a trade off; size and strength gains from a lean bulk will be slower.
08-09-2006, 07:37 PM
Or blowing out joints and connective tissue cause muscle gains outpaced 'em.Originally Posted by BigVrunga
08-09-2006, 08:13 PM
More likely on anabolics - but yeah an all out natural bulkathon can lead to connective tissue damage too.Or blowing out joints and connective tissue cause muscle gains outpaced 'em.
08-09-2006, 11:16 PM
Cardio either in the morning or
after workout (except on leg day) does wonders.
Bulking with clean, decent food helps as well.
Cardio also just makes me feel better...especially if I do it first thing in the morning.
08-10-2006, 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by -2z-
same here, i enjoy getting up in the morning and walking. i plan on doing 30min 3x per week during my clean bulk.
08-22-2006, 04:02 AM
I see what you guys are saying about the cardio while bulking and it makes complete sense...
This summer i was very active while i was bulking and i actually lost bodyfat and gained lean mass. Now however my activity is going down with the new job i have ( sitting at a desk) and i notice im starting to get softer.
I would really like to incorperate the cardio into my daily routine but i really dont see how after a heavy lifting session you can go do 20 mins of cardio.. What about your PWO shake? And since im on IGF what about my PWO pinning... do i wait till after the cardio or what?
It seems like PWO cardio wouldnt be such a bad idea except for the fact that many catabolic hormones are released while lifting and you need to get that PWO shake into you asap.
08-22-2006, 07:04 AM
I love doing cardio. I started doing light cardio after workouts and on my OFF days to improve my wind, heart, internal balance. But it's also made my muscles harder, more cut, without losing practically any of my LBM. Hooray to cardio!
08-22-2006, 01:29 PM
I have been HIIT cardio for about four of five weeks now and I have seen a great improvement in vascularity, endurance, and my abs look better...all while maintaining the same weight.
And as far as gaining fat I think it has been hit on the head by everybody so far. Make small incremental adjustments (play with cals and your ratios) until you start putting on fat. Then just back it down a little. Some guys like to carb cycle too. Just an idea.
08-22-2006, 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by RenegadeRows
when you say light cardio what do you mean by that. What kind of intensity and duration are u doing. Also where are you keeping your cals at? Above Maintence or what ....?
08-23-2006, 12:57 PM
I know that you weren't asking me, but if you want to bulk any you are going to need some calories above maintenance. That's why guys were saying to slowly increase your caloric intake by 200 or so periodically. When you hit the point of starting to put on fat you will then back your calories down some. It'll take some time to figure this out, but it will be worth not having to cut later on. And don't forget that further down the road you may need to re-adjust your caloric intake for the new LBM that has been gained.Originally Posted by dertynasty
Last edited by stxnas; 08-30-2006 at 09:42 AM.
08-30-2006, 04:11 AM
Thankz STX... here is basically whats going on.
Ever since i came off cycle it seems as if im looking softer. Yes i shrank a bit, but whats really bothering me is that i look like im putting on fat or water and im not eating any differently. Im actually eating almost the same diet or maybe a tad more somedays just for pct sake. Anyways how the hell do i tell if its water or fat? I couldnt, so i just decided to start doing cardio 20 mins of fast walking (4.0 mph 3.0 incline) after i lift 3x a week. Ive done it 2 times but i really dont see a difference and i know i shouldnt but i was hoping for maybe a bit of waterloss. My veins dont pop out that much anymore and i dont know but i can still see my abs, but my obliques have a soft layer of something on em. NOW WTF!!! is this water or fat or what. I wanna just lose whatever it is so i can start becoming shredded but keep my muscle.
I dont want to cut, and im not trying to really bulk like i used to cause i always looked puffy so this time I am trying to just stay lean while gaining muscle *Really Slowly*. But how my midsection looks wider or softer is beyond me cause the only thing that has changed is that im not on Prop/Tbol anymore.
Im on week 3 of PCT and im taking 20mcg of igf pwo ED. Any advice or help would be reallly appreciated. Im sure alot of you have been through this before. Thanks!
08-30-2006, 01:00 PM
Originally Posted by -2z-
I always walk for 20 min. after a workout... even on leg day. I have skipped the walking after leg day and I am much more sore for the next two days. Walking after a grueling workout helps me recover hands down.
09-01-2006, 12:09 PM
Wouldn't it be better do do those 20-30 min of low intensity cardio before your workout? That is what I do and it works for me. I just make sure that I don's have any kind of simple carbs before this, I save the sugar for during my workout.
09-01-2006, 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by dertynasty
Here is the easy way to handle it. Winter is right around the corner, don't worry about it until it gets nice again.
09-02-2006, 12:58 AM
Okay, advice for those trying to gain weight while staying lean...
Exercise after you eat! Not only does this increase the thermic effect of the food you eat but GLUT4 translocate to the surface of cells during periods of activity. GLUT4 is the primary insulin independant transporter of glucose into the cell. In addition exercise upregulates HSL via catecholamine release which is responsible for regulating levels of lipolysis.
Net effect: Your burn more calories, shuttle glucose into muscle cells preferentially, and break down more fat in the process.
Well trained athletes tend to burn more fat at rest as well, so by getting in shape you make it easier to keep the fat off.
09-02-2006, 10:37 AM
This my favorite way by far. Itís the method I advocate to anyone who asks. Sure beats being having a bloated gut while all out bulking as well. I tried the normal bulking diet and I couldnít stand the uncomfortable bloated feeling and the fact that my pants got tight on me. I actually get better gains on going just a little over maintenance.Originally Posted by Ziricote
09-04-2006, 04:12 PM
Hey what up man? Most of the guys are saying the same thing, but I just want to emphasis the point of cardio. You have to do some type of cardio. Low intensity cardio on a bulking diet will definatly benifit your cause. A brisk walk on an empty stomach will burn fat and maintain lean muscle. You won't see Ronnie, or Cutler on a x-country trail running anytime soon, but you will see them on a bike or tredmill doing low intensity cardio. Also when uping your calories still keep your diet clean, eat more grains, and add more clean protein (e.g. tuna chicken and lean ground turkey.) by upping calories with foods like this you will bulk up but not have to be one of those guys walking around your gym with a gut. Good luck man, and keep us posted on your progress. Later.
. . . Keep Eating
09-04-2006, 04:50 PM
Exercise on an empty stomach is not the best idea in the world. The whole point of exercising while bulking is to positively affect the partitioning of calories. Exercise on an empty stomach doesn't do that, it just burns a small amount of fat and glycogen without any real upside.Originally Posted by jbono731
Low intensity cardio also doesn't contribute any training effect at all. It will have a small positive effect on nutrient partitioning, but you're better off going for a higher intensity of exercise so that the number of mitochondria in your muscle tissue increases and the concentration of aerobic enzymes increases. This will allow the muscle to more readily use fat as an energy substrate, which will keep you lean. Fat people use glucose as their energy substrate at rest. As long as you keep the intensity reasonable (70-80% MHR for 20-30 minutes) and consume additional calories before exercising you will see negligible effects on strength and size development. If you train overly hard for endurance this will impact strength development, the best way to avoid this is to train with multiple different forms of exercise such as swimming, jump rope, running and so forth so that you don't overtax specific muscles by doing the same form of cardio all the time. Research shows that training more than twice a week using any one particular form of cardio offers greatly diminishing returns anyhow.
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