how much protein does one need?

[gbody]

I am bulking now. And I hate drinking shakes. I was wondering could I jus make a 500 gram protein shake in the morning and that good for the day? May seem weird, but jus asking. And if not is three 100 gram shakes ok or is that to much as well?

 

[idunk42]

You should be taking in @1.5g's of protein per pound of body weight. You dont want all of this to come from shakes though. I would say keep your protein from shakes to under 100g's.

 

[njmuscle66]

1 gram of protein per lb of bodyweight is a good minimum to set. 1.5 grams might be better but research is mixed on the need for higher protein intake. I dont see the possibility of being able to even ingest 500 grams of protein at one time but even if one could ..............your body would have difficulty utilizes all of it within one shot. Much better for numerous reasons to spread the intake throughout the day

 

[NiteHawk]

Yes, go with 1 gram to 1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight. But like your meals, you want to obviously spread this amount over the course of the day to keep your body in the anabolic state and nitrogen balanced. Your body wouldnt be able to digest and use that much protein in one setting.

I personally feel anything over 50 grams in one sitting is too much.

 

[anabolicrhino]

Why not start a log? I would be interested to read the result of a 500 gram protein infusion...you may want to be near a bathroom, just in case of indigestion!
Seriously, It takes time and trial to find your diet niche. It helps to have clearly defined goals for size and strength within an alotted timeframe, good luck!

 

[somewhatgifted]

I am not so sure about Fitday's BMR calculations it has always seemed a bit excessive.

If you go here http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm

or here http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

Could you say if you get a different figure as I get quite a bit less using the Harris-Benedict equations compared to the Fitday equation (snot sure how they calculate it)

This was taken from GRUNT76 fragment log but they are good site for finding individual meal requirements.

 

[Moyer]

The short answer gbody is no.

I mostly agree with what everyone else has said but I would like to add a little.

The important question is, how much do you weigh?

Also, you don't need to get any of your protein from shakes. In fact, with the possible exception of immediate post-workout, you're better off not having any shakes at all. Despite the clever marketing, protein powder should really only be used if you can't get enough protein from whole food. Whole food is more easily absorbed by your body. You definately shouldn't be getting more than 1/3 of your total daily protein from powders.

In my opinion, when you're bulking, you're better off getting only about a gram of protein per pound of bodyweight and using good carbs to pile on the extra calories.

Some guys swear by 2g/lb or more, but all the research and many other people's results show that 1g is plenty. If you're worried, maybe try 1.5g/lb.

I never go over 50g of protein in one meal, and that's with real food. With a shake I definately wouldn't advise taking any more than that at one time. If you're just dumping whey into water and chugging it, I personally wouldn't use more than 25g, but that's just me.

Also, what kind of whey are you using that tastes so bad? You may want to run a search for "shake" to find good recipes.

 

[cable626]

In my opinion, when you're bulking, you're better off getting only about a gram of protein per pound of bodyweight and using good carbs to pile on the extra calories.

hey moyer, how has this worked for you? Anyone else do this also?

Seems like I've been eating too much protein, and not enough carbs.

 

[Achilles13]

You may also want to keep in mind you should consume most of your protein from whole foods and not shakes. Usually 1 gram per lb of bw to 1.5grams per body weight is good like everyone else said.

 

[cable626]

You may also want to keep in mind you should consume most of your protein from whole foods and not shakes. Usually 1 gram per lb of bw to 1.5grams per body weight is good like everyone else said.

I only use 2 scoops WPI PWO. I was hitting 300g daily without that, but have decided to bring protein intake down.

Would you consider adding 1.5 cups of grinded Oatmeal to water and drinking it a shake? :blink:

 

[glenihan]

you should probably spend a lot of time reading the nutrition forums if you think its a) you need 500g of protein and b) you think its a good idea to get all that protein from shakes

not a flame just a suggestion that will really help you out in the end

 

[spatch]

I personally feel anything over 50 grams in one sitting is too much.

I agree, I never go above 50-60g a meal.

 

[wideguy]

Here's a quick question? I'm more on the 50/50 mark and am making decent progress ie. every year I get bigger stronger ect. (note I do cycle so that skews things ALOT, hence I'm not a great example). Back to my question though, I hear alot of you saying it should be more like 70/30 or 60/40 or would some of you even say 80/10 (that's food/protein powder). I was always under the impression that whey absorbs pretty quickly and pretty well (in terms of how much you use vs. how much passes through). Now obviously slower digesting protiens like meat,fish, casien (sp? I'm talking about the protein in cottage cheese) digest slower so your body would take in more of it. Right? So why wouldn't a 50/50 blend be optimal? I'm guessing that most of us here eat 6-8 times a day (maybe I'm way the uck off though??? fill me in if that's the case). So something like a whey shake and, some complex or simple carbs, depending on the time of the day, would make up half my protien intake and then solid foods ie.

eggs/cottage chees/ steak/ fruits/ oatmeal for breakfast

chicken, fish, meat/veggies/whole grains/lower gi fruits for lunch

chicken, fish, meat, lower gi veggies for dinner

Then put a shake and some sort of healthy carb choice with the GI that makes the most sense based on when you train, in between the solid meals. WHat the hell was my question??? Oh yeah, sorry bout that I'm a little scattered today (exams, life, having testicles...I'm at school=tang vs. wang). My question was has anyone eaten more like the way I described above say in the past then incorporated more whole foods (can you tell me what percentage you seem to fall into; like I mentioned are you 80/20?) and noticed a substantial improvement in what we all stive for ie. muscle gains, decreased recovery time, decrease in bdyft, better energy levels ect.? I'm very interested in this, glad someone brought it up.

BTW, I like ON protein. I HATE that ON protein story. I don't want to clutte this post with bs about it. So if somebody know's what's up could you please pm me and if not explain it, at least point a brother in the direction of a link or site/sites where he can get a better idea of what's up. THanks in advance.

 

[wideguy]

C'mon now?

 

[wideguy]

Glen? SOmebody....Nite:-(

 

[Moyer]

hey moyer, how has this worked for you? Anyone else do this also?

Seems like I've been eating too much protein, and not enough carbs.

So far it's working great. I went from around 300g of protein a day to 220 and added an extra 80g of carbs. I'm still gaining a pound a week w/out any more noticable fat. Keep in mind though, out of that 220g, less than 50 is from powders (even on workout days).

Carbs are less filling so I don't always feel stuffed like I used to. I actually even get hungry from time to time, which is awesome because bulking doesn't seem like it's as much work as it used to be. Carbs are cheaper too. It's even healthier for you because your body doesn't have to process so much protein and my extra 80g of good carbs adds more fiber to my diet. Just about everyone could use more fiber in their diet.

If you're a real endo, already have a low fat diet, and still get chubby real easy than maybe this isn't the best idea for you. But if you're one of the huge number of guys that has trouble gaining weight, I think you should be all for the 1g/lb. More is definately not always better.

 

[WannaBeHulk]

when bulking, i eat about 30% of total calories come from complete protein sources. i mostly increase my carb intake and carbs do a great job at sparing protein. since this is the bodies preferred source as fuel, performance is usually at its peak while glycogen stores are full (or at least its this way for me). i can always push more weight when im consistently refilling glycogen stores to near maximum capacity. of course, overfilling them will likely result in fat storage being in a calorie surplus and thats likely why people choose higher protein diets. while cutting, calories from protein become about half of my total calories and i am functioning using excess amino acids for fuel at times. i believe protein has the greatest thermic effect also. when dieting down for a show, i cut out all protein shakes about 4 weeks out because whole foods will provide a better thermic effect as well and result in greater satiety.

has anyone that that a shake yielding 500g of protein yields 2000 cals assuming no carbs or or fats are added? to me, that is a ridiculous idea. spreading protein throughout meals cause much greater nutrient partioning and increase metabolism. that kind of a shake would be crazy!

 

[Moyer]

Here's some old threads that should interest some of you. Pay special attention to Bobo's posts:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/weight-loss/3903-what-best-portable-protein-thats-real-3.html?highlight=intestine

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/weight-loss/22377-amount-protein-can-absorbed.html?highlight=thermic+effect

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/weight-loss/18175-back-basics-part-2-protein-digestion.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/weight-loss/18674-back-basics-part-3-roles-protein.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/weight-loss/1649-will-eating-more-protein-help-your.html

 

[delta314]

I don't remember exactly where I read this, but it said that your body can only process 40-60gr of protein every 2 hours(depending on body weight). Anything over that is wasted and excreted. Anyone else ever hear this?

 

[wideguy]

you do the math, 1.8g/kg is not that high. For someone at 240 at 10%bf its only 97kg x 1.8g = 175g of protein.

The only reason I raise it higher is for the the thermic effect actually mean something. With the RDA recommendations, it doens't do mch at all.__________________

 

[wideguy]

you do the math, 1.8g/kg is not that high. For someone at 240 at 10%bf its only 97kg x 1.8g = 175g of protein.

The only reason I raise it higher is for the the thermic effect actually mean something. With the RDA recommendations, it doens't do mch at all.__________________

That post kinda of seems to sum most of the posts up from Bobo's pov, correct.

So for myself that would be 230 lbs at about 10% bodyft.

94kg x 1.8g = abour 170 grams of protein a day?? Then the rest comes of my calories comes from low gi carbs and healthy fats? Unless I'm looking to cut up in which I might drop my carbs down and raise my protien up to say 190-200 grams?

Is this somewhat correct? ARE YOU GUYS SCREWING WITH ME? This really goes against what I've been doing for AWHILE now. Although I'm not entirely thrilled with my results. However I'm sure none of us truly are, othewise what would be the point in continuing to try.

BTW, in regaurds to D's last question, if you look through the threads that moyer laid out (thank you that was nice) and you should find your answer. It seems like it's yes.

SO just to humor me anyone who's following this post or reads it from here on out could you give us/me an idea on how much of your protien comes from carbs AND what % percentage of your diet consists of protein (also what equation do you use ie. lbm in kgsX1.8;1.5;ect). And if you do use ph's/aas do you raise your protein intake?

 

[delta314]

I've always tried to keep my % at 45% carbs 35%protein 20% fat. I'm 49 years old and I don't think I'll be in any contests or power meets, but I'm strong, muscular, and very good looking...well, the first two anyway. I take in about 1- 1.5 grams of protein per lb of body weight depending on my total caloric intake on any given day.

 

[wideguy]

Are you LE?

 

[Moyer]

SO just to humor me anyone who's following this post or reads it from here on out could you give us/me an idea on how much of your protien comes from carbs AND what % percentage of your diet consists of protein (also what equation do you use ie. lbm in kgsX1.8;1.5;ect). And if you do use ph's/aas do you raise your protein intake?

Right now mine is 30%Pro/50%Carb/20%Fat. I wouldn't go any higher than 35/45/20 if you're an ecto. As you can see, according to the studies, 30% should be more than enough.

And if you do use ph's/aas do you raise your protein intake?

They are supposed to increase protein sythesis, so yes I would. I would also increase carbs though too, so the ratios would still be about the same.

how much of your protien comes from carbs

I don't worry about this too much. I still get a complete protein source in every meal. Also, I eat a lot of carbs that "compliment" eachother. Basically, the aminos from grain foods are the opposite of the aminos in beans, so when you combine the two you get a complete protein. They don't need to be eaten in the same meal, but within 4hrs of eachother or so. It's been working great for vegetarians. If you're getting a lot of protein from oats, pasta, wheat bread, etc, just add some peas, black beans, baked beans, &/or other legumes.

 

[wideguy]

175 grams of protein? **** that's nothing compare to what I've been taking in? I just don't see how that can be right. So moyer how many grams do you eat a day?

 

[Mess]

Hey , chill out guys, what is it with everybody attacking God's Precious gift- WHEY POWDER- whats wrong with getting your pro. from whey shakes ? i know that real food might be better but does the shakes do the JOB or no is the question ??

Mess

 

[njmuscle66]

175 grams of protein? **** that's nothing compare to what I've been taking in? I just don't see how that can be right. So moyer how many grams do you eat a day?

I know this was not directed to me ................however I am hoovering between 210 and 220 and I have never consumed more than 1 g per lb of bodyweight throught my training history. And I have been in the game for the last 20 years. Eating more than 1 g per lb wont cause harm but it doesnt seem to increase your gains much either

 

[Ronin13]

Not trying to be a wisenheimer... :blink: but I would have to disagree with this - only from a "really depends on the person pov".

I have been in the game for 20 years as well - whether it was lifting, wrestling, baseball or football - and over that time I have tweaked my diet trying to find the best ratio to grow without getting fat.

I definitely found out that I could never grow on 1 g per lb. In fact the only time I grow is when I increase it to 1.8 g per lb. That ratio gives "me" the best results e.g. no increase in the waist measurement.

I also try to keep my real food to shake ration about 80 / 20. I find this to be what keeps my gut size in check.

just my $0.02

I know this was not directed to me ................however I am hoovering between 210 and 220 and I have never consumed more than 1 g per lb of bodyweight throught my training history. And I have been in the game for the last 20 years. Eating more than 1 g per lb wont cause harm but it doesnt seem to increase your gains much either

 

[Ziricote]

it really depends but most people seem to be agreeing that it's between 1g/lb-2g/lb.
Lately I've been taking in more than that and the fat has been rolling on, I'm pretty happy to say that was thanks to too much protein. I've changed it to 1.5g/lb and expect to see less fat build up

 

[Moyer]

So moyer how many grams do you eat a day?

Read my posts above. 220g.

 

[Moyer]

i know that real food IS better

FYP. Do yourself a favor and actually click on the links I posted and read...

Bobo has guys gaining 2lbs a week. Instead of claiming it is from some secret method (which many trainers would do), he says straight up that the reason they can gain so fast is because they switched from eating a lot of powders to eating whole food.

 

[Moyer]

My opinion is that most 2g/lb guys fit into one of these 4 categories:

1. They don't really get 2g/lb, they just think they do.
2. When they up their protein, they don't cut back on carbs. They're increasing totol calories, which makes them grow.
3. They get 2g/lb, but most of it is from powder. They would gain just as well with less protein, but more whole food.
4. The guys that actually need more than 1g/lb. It's the smallest category. If it even exists, it probably doesn't include any ectos.

I'm just saying, if you don't get fat easily and you're getting 2g/lb, try 1.5g/lb and more carbs. It will save you money, you'll feel better, and I think you'll gain just as fast (if not faster).

 

[wideguy]

THis is a nice thread for me, I'm learning or at least hearing some new things. SO 1.8 -1.5 per lb of lean bodyweight would be ideal. Right? At least in most cases.

 

[delta314]

Are you LE?

Yep

 

[Mess]

i can hear you moyer, but i'm just like the most of you, i have a family and a job to look after beside my thing (working out), and i cant get the 220gm -330gms of protien from real food the best i can do is 50/50, now my question is does the powder do the Job or no i mean does it contribute in recovering & building muscles as a result of intense resistance training ?

Mess

 

[Ronin13]

Definitely good points but we could elaborate further:

category 1 - it is pretty much their own fault for estimating. It is not terribly difficult to track.... fitday is amazingly easy and a scale is pretty cheap
category 2 - this makes sense but how many really fall here.... so many people are falling into this "carb sense" trap they are afraid to eat more carbs....
category 3 - I think they would gain more as well and less of it would be fat... if they are eating clean and the ratios are appropriate
category 4 - I am sure it exists as I fell into this category for many years and I couldn't really grow until I increased my protein intake to 1.5 ~ 1.8g/lb (as well as increased my total calories by increasing my carbs as well)

Hope you don't mind me expanding here... Just feeling overly zealous with my $0.02 today...

My opinion is that most 2g/lb guys fit into one of these 4 categories:

1. They don't really get 2g/lb, they just think they do.
2. When they up their protein, they don't cut back on carbs. They're increasing totol calories, which makes them grow.
3. They get 2g/lb, but most of it is from powder. They would gain just as well with less protein, but more whole food.
4. The guys that actually need more than 1g/lb. It's the smallest category. If it even exists, it probably doesn't include any ectos.

I'm just saying, if you don't get fat easily and you're getting 2g/lb, try 1.5g/lb and more carbs. It will save you money, you'll feel better, and I think you'll gain just as fast (if not faster).

 

[wideguy]

What do all you boys weigh?

Moyer I just looked at your profile and didn't see anything.

 

[Mess]

244 lbs @ 17% BF

 

[Ronin13]

175 lbs holding steady around 12% bf

 

[glenihan]

wow forgot about this post .. i usually take in around 300g of protein a day at a weight of 204-206 and i grow just fine .. my carbs are around 350

 

[wideguy]

Hhhmm, thanks for the responces so far guys. Anyone else feel free to add.

 

[Trench]

6'3 188lbs 6.8% bf currently

cant seem to get higher than 190 and lower than 180 no matter what I do lol. Starving, Sickness, 4000+ calories... ahhhhh

Umm, protein-wise. Just a thought here. Why do you guys say per lb of bodyweight. We all know the total body isnt made of muscle. So why take in the extra protein for the fat as well?

-Trench

 

[Mess]

well, trench you have a point, but i do count the lean wieght only and there for feed it with necesary amount of protien

 

[Ziricote]

Well remember that your protein intake isn't just for building muscle, it's for maintanence of your body plus I do believe it is the main activator of metabolism and gives off a thermo-effect in the process so not all the protein you take in is used for maintanence and repair.

 

[Moyer]

Moyer I just looked at your profile and didn't see anything.

190lbs, 11% BF