Gaining Mass and Strength while being active in intense sports like Grappling?
- 08-09-2005, 02:53 PM
Gaining Mass and Strength while being active in intense sports like Grappling?
My kid brother is an avid bodybuilder/powerlifter but recently has started pursuing his interest in wrestling/grappling. He called me today freaking out, because ever since he started he's found very hard to make any gains in the gym, and he can feel his strength stagnating, if not slipping.
Without analyzing his diet, Im assuming that the bouts of intense wrestling practice are burning out his glycogen stores and possible encouraging a catabolic state?
Ideally, he'd like to see good results both in the gym and on the mats...
I posted this in the Nutrition forum because I know some of you are involved in fighting/grappling and I'd like to hear some suggestions on how to structure your diet to avoid muscle loss.
Im thinking he should be getting in a higher amount of clean/ complex carbs than normal, striving to get space his meals out evenly throughout the day and ensuring that he has proper pre and post workout nutrition for both his weight training and grappling practice.
- 08-09-2005, 03:04 PM
20g BCAAs and 30 grams dexrose. One of these concoctions before grappling, and one after...Thats all I do before a 3 hour jiu jitsu workout and it seems to do the trick...dim
08-09-2005, 03:34 PM
08-09-2005, 03:37 PM
Sounds like you've got the idea. Protein should be increased as well and if you can get him to eat/drink some sort of amino acid DURING his practices and events, thatd be optimal. Either way you look at it, its a fairly catabolic activity. Best of luck.Originally Posted by BigVrunga
08-09-2005, 03:43 PM
Thanks for the input - Im trying to help him design a diet that will help him meet his goals. Poor kid's really getting depressed about it...
I'm sure there's a good reason why you dont see a lot of natural wrestlers that arent 200+ and jacked to all hell
08-09-2005, 04:06 PM
08-09-2005, 04:21 PM
08-09-2005, 04:28 PM
08-09-2005, 04:35 PM
You know, I was thinking about an anti-cortisol supplement to help him out. He actually has a bottle of 7-OXO homebrew transdermal that I made to use during our 1test/4AD cycle last year but we never used it.
Perhaps the 7-OXO dermal and some CissusRX, in combination with a more structured diet, would do the trick.
Thanks for the suggestion!
08-09-2005, 11:06 PM
I would agree with the other guys, PS would work wonders. I would also add vit. C, and or vit. E before and after each workout, and along with aminos some type of carb, or carb/protein mix during workout will help a lot. HMB would be a good idea as well.
Last edited by ryansm; 08-10-2005 at 12:40 PM.
08-10-2005, 12:43 AM
Some flax will help as some added good calories as well as the anti-inflammation properties should help some while grappling. I would just up the calories. I mean I am going through this now with constant football training. Eat that bedtime meal too, stay as anabolic as possible for as long as possible ya know. I am not trying to say hey this will work I am just throwing ideas out there that other people can add to. Pretty common knowledge stuff of course.
08-12-2005, 01:16 AM
I have a bit of experience dealing with this.. at one time i was training MMA 3 times a day (with extra cardio)
I used lean Xtreme, cissus RX, ephedrine during the workouts, ALWAYS drank pre and post grappling shakes with oats and protein powder, with flax in the post workout one.
Ever since doing that i was able to stop scavenging my muscle.. lost alot of fat. Before i had set up any kind of anticatabolic regime, i lost a bunch of muscle doing grappling and the such
08-18-2005, 06:11 PM
You are going to have a hard time gaining **** until your body adapts to the increased workload, which takes at least three months. You can force gains to come by eating like a horse, but that will entail some fat gain as well. My advice would be to start slow with the MMA, and take a week or two off every couple of months, building intensity as you can handle it. The truth is that pro boxers and wrestlers take some "off" time for 3-6 months from extreme conditioning work and just practice with a very high volume of low intensity tenchnique work and strength training, and once you've reached a certain level of conditioning this is what you are going to need to do too.
I also advise you to sip on a gatorade/BCAA solution while training, this will help keep you well fueled during exercise, so you don't chew the crap out of your muscle. Steroids will also help
08-19-2005, 02:26 AM
Yeah, what beelze said..
I tried to train nonstop.. I had to give up lifting after a couple months, cause i felt too sore all the time to bother. Then after training for basically 8 months straight i thought it was time to take some time off.. and man all my lifts (except for dead/squat) were in the toilet. I honestly had to start benching with 40lbs on the bar, it looked ridiculous cause i looked far stronger than i was.
After a couple months of lifting now though, my bench is 10lbs more than my max was (m1t helped..) But regardless.
It is necesarry to balance conditioning training/MMA with strength training/technique
You can really only do one of those combinations well, if you try and do both you will just get overtrained (been there)
The only concievable way i could think of weight training and full time grappling would be to use HST, which is alot nicer on your CNS than traditional balls out training.
08-19-2005, 10:53 PM
Thanks for the great advice guys, Ill pass this along to my bro. He's already seen some improvements since he made it a point to track his caloric intake.
08-30-2005, 06:55 PM
Cycling intensity is definitely a must w/ the mma and bb. It's almost impossible to grow in strength and size and at the same time develope the incredible conditioning needed for mma. Attempting to is a recipe for overtraining.
During the weeks where he wants to ramp up his bodily strength, he should focus his attention on his technique on the mat - no all out rolls. When he desires to develope his conditioning, he should just do maintenance work in the gym.
This also shouldn't be done haphazardly. He should make a plan for what he wants to accomplish in his cycles. This will keep him healthy and sane.
09-28-2005, 05:38 PM
Ive wrestled all my life... now in D1 ncaa and every season my lifts go down no matter what toward the end. Recovery drinks are key as well as just eating enough calories. It is very tough though!
10-20-2005, 01:32 AM
I use to fight pankration in highschool and college, also did a few grappling tourney's could never break 190...ever. now im 3 months off of it and 210 so it definately affected my gains. The cardio aspect was very high intnesity in most cases. i couldn't bulk and train hard it was tough, but cutting was a cinch.
10-20-2005, 01:36 AM
Kristopher who are you training with? i was with Eric Paulsen & Jay martinez at sharktank and sometimes would train over at Lions Den with Ken and Vernon. congrats on your victory btw, that's a nice pic. hope you didn't get the black bags under your eyes, that's what happened to me when i got when my nose got busted, i looked like a racoon lol.
11-12-2016, 02:48 PM
Doing sports and activities that burn a lot of callories tend to be the downfall. What he needs to be doing is calculating how much he is taking in and then how much he is burning calorie wise. Meal prepping and sticking to a eating schuduel
Is key. Simple as making 3 solid meals a day and putting them in a back pack and taking them with you is the easiest and most consistent way to go especially when your not home to eat. That way you'll have a meal with you at all times so your aren't missing out or just not eating completely.
12-07-2016, 11:55 PM
01-18-2017, 06:34 PM
A cortisol control supplement is a must in such cases, lets keep in mind hydration and electrolytes too to keep everything functioning properly.
Regarding the weights given the standard mma training with push ups, pull-ups and sparring involved it will be hard to keep the same intensity for the simple fact that muscles will have less chances to completely recover.
Based on my experience I fully agree with those who suggest to take a week off every 3 weeks of training, in my case I decided to take 3 days to recover every 10 days of training, I found myself fast to recover but also fast to approach overtraining.
Libido, mood and sleep quality were my benchmarks.
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