Frustrated lean bulkers: why do YOU gain fat?

[DieTrying]

I just thought that I'd start a thread about WHY BBers gain fat when they're bulking/muscling up. I've just started trying to add weight after dieting for a long time and I'm having a hard time staying lean.

If one of these choices doesn't apply to you, please feel free to discuss..Sorry but PLers and year-round bulkers, I think we understand why you hold some extra fat.

 

[Grassroots082]

DT, my worst area is nutrient timing and portion control. I eat clean foods but can still gain fat on the midsection doing so, while not gaining muscle. I'll figure it out one day (perhaps w/ Bobo's help).

 

[glenihan]

i don't mind putting on fat in the offseason and i do it because i eat A TON of clean foods as well as indulging myself occasionally ... i don't mind putting on some fat because its simply a by-product of being in SUCH a hyper caloric state (i shoot for 5000 cals a day - 450 grams of protein, 500 grams of carbs, and god knows how much fat) it allows me to put on a lot more muscle and my body doesn't really store fat TOO readily ... so getting up to 14% in the offseason is fine with me, my abs usually still peek through and by being heavier i can toss around weights .. plus i usually shed fat fairly easily .. i can go from 14% to 8% in under 2 months (especially with bobo's help ) so i'm not concerned about some fat ... its fun and helpful to the end product

 

[CROWLER]

i don't mind putting on fat in the offseason and i do it because i eat A TON of clean foods as well as indulging myself occasionally ... i don't mind putting on some fat because its simply a by-product of being in SUCH a hyper caloric state (i shoot for 5000 cals a day - 450 grams of protein, 500 grams of carbs, and god knows how much fat) it allows me to put on a lot more muscle and my body doesn't really store fat TOO readily ... so getting up to 14% in the offseason is fine with me, my abs usually still peek through and by being heavier i can toss around weights .. plus i usually shed fat fairly easily .. i can go from 14% to 8% in under 2 months (especially with bobo's help ) so i'm not concerned about some fat ... its fun and helpful to the end product

I agree.

I think the term lean bulk is JUST ABOUT a contridiction in terms. Yes I realize there is a guy who posted that he gained 22 lbs and lost fat and another guy who gained like 30 lbs and lost fat. BUT these are attention getters because they are the EXCEPTION.

I think the term lean bulk was popularized by younger (highschool and college age) guys who wanted to gain a few pounds of muscle but didn't want to get fat and look bad for the chicks. I understand it completely.

BUT realize that for 99% of the people who want to get BIG read over 250lbs at 6' you are NOT going to do it with lean bulkers.

SO the reason people get fat while on a lean bulker is if you eat just enough calories to gain a couple pounds of muscle a week you are also eating enough calories to gain some fat too.


CROWLER

 

[RobInKuwait]

I agree.

I think the term lean bulk is JUST ABOUT a contridiction in terms. Yes I realize there is a guy who posted that he gained 22 lbs and lost fat and another guy who gained like 30 lbs and lost fat. BUT these are attention getters because they are the EXCEPTION.

I think the term lean bulk was popularized by younger (highschool and college age) guys who wanted to gain a few pounds of muscle but didn't want to get fat and look bad for the chicks. I understand it completely.

BUT realize that for 99% of the people who want to get BIG read over 250lbs at 6' you are NOT going to do it with lean bulkers.

SO the reason people get fat while on a lean bulker is if you eat just enough calories to gain a couple pounds of muscle a week you are also eating enough calories to gain some fat too.


CROWLER

I agree. I've never been successful at putting on weight without a major caloric excess. I think it just makes more sense to all out bulk (cleanly), then cut.

 

[UNDERTAKER]

i find it very annoying when kids wanna "get huge" but wanna "keep that 6" and don't wanna "gain any fat." If your not willing to gain fat, your not willing you get huge...period. All these lanky pussies at my gym always ask me about my diet and then are like "no way could I do that dude, I'll get fat"

 

[glenihan]

well when i was 18 i found i could eat and eat and eat and gain muscle upon muscle and not put on an ounce of fat

that is no longer the case lol ... but like i said before fat is fun

 

[exnihilo]

but like i said before fat is fun

My point exactly :drunk:

 

[50joe]

I am the type who CAN'T make like any gains without gaining some fat too. I don't really care! It gives me something to do after bulking then, because why would I bulk/cut? If i didn't gain any fat I wouldnt have anything to cut! And we all love cutting don't we!? :rasp: I think a lot are horribly scared to lose that 6pack, or get some love handles, but for someone like me, its all part of the fun, glenihan said it best, fat is fun :lol:

Its like over at bb.com, i see these pics of people who have some nice size to them, but have the extra fat attributed to the bulk season, and all the replies are usually "Good, but You're FAT" sheesh!

 

[exnihilo]

Its like over at bb.com, i see these pics of people who have some nice size to them, but have the extra fat attributed to the bulk season, and all the replies are usually "Good, but You're FAT" sheesh!

Just going by my experience... People only say that to me on the internet - even people I antagonize all the time IRL don't say that... Must be something about being twice their size :twisted:

 

[glenihan]

exnihilo when's your next meet?

 

[CROWLER]

well when i was 18 i found i could eat and eat and eat and gain muscle upon muscle and not put on an ounce of fat

that is no longer the case lol ... but like i said before fat is fun

Glenihan how goes the prep for the show in the summer? Hope all is well.



CROWLER

 

[Chunky]

You can eat in large amount and still manage to keep your bf level in check with cardio. Off season doesnt mean no more cardio.

 

[glenihan]

thanks for asking crowler

its going really well hovering around 191-192lbs bf probably around 7-8% ... i'm getting vascular as hell, finally started showing on my quads as well although its hard to see with all the hair lol ... striations are coming through very nicely specifically in my delts and chest .. i am beginning to realize i don't need 16 weeks to diet down .. 12 probably would have been optimal, but you live and learn and better to be over prepared .. 5 weeks out i'm going to do a trial run of my contest week culminating with a "shitload" (i think you're familiar with this term) and see how everything looks .. i will post pics when i'm about 8 weeks out .. i'm 10 weeks out right now

 

[CROWLER]

VERY COOL>

Great to hear it.

If I remember correctly the show is in June which if so you are definitely ahead of time at 7-8% at this time. Hey who knows maybe you could 'grow into' a show like I think a couple of the pros do.

Sounds good with the practice shitload.

Keep us posted


CROWLER

 

[glenihan]

well i'm still lifting hard as **** and i'm on enough gear where if i changed my diet i could DEFINITELY gain weight (not that its that much gear just 500mg of test) but i'm scared to change my diet jsut because its going so well

i would think to "grow into" the show like Kevin Levrone did oh so well i would need to increase my cals to a point where it may negate some of the leanness i've gotten .. SOME pros can do it, but they most certainly have better genetics than i do .. overall i'm just a big pussy and don't wanna **** up lol

 

[CROWLER]

I am sure you have already thought about these things but maybe when you do your trial **** load you could also do a trial tan up, posing suit you know just try all the things so you get used to it.

You are braver than almost all and good luck.


CROWLER

 

[exnihilo]

exnihilo when's your next meet?

I've got one coming up next weekend actually.

-EDIT-

You're going to compete eh? :lol: When are we gonna get to see some pics of you in your underwear? *swoons*

:rofl:

Good luck with that man, from the looks of your avatar you will do fine in a show as long as you get all those stupid contest prep tricks you always hear the trainers to the pros talking about - **** like large amounts of glycerin to bring out vascularity (lol probably more like winstrol) and those funky hebal wraps that are supposed to tighten up your skin temporarily. I remember some Mr. O commentator saying that Ronnie looked "noticably drier and fuller" in the afternoon than in the pre-judging one year and thought to myself, WTF?!

 

[glenihan]

ex - keep us updated on that meet man

there are pics of me in the pics forum from 12 weeks out already ... i'll have more pics at around the 8 week mark

 

[Watcher]

I have had success with keeping fat gains to small amounts while bulking and I have had times where I let my guard down and balloon up more than I'd like to.

It all boils down to self discipline and patience is all.

If you let yourself eat garbage, you may end up looking like garbage.

 

[Phoenix rising]

I just thought that I'd start a thread about WHY BBers gain fat when they're bulking/muscling up. I've just started trying to add weight after dieting for a long time and I'm having a hard time staying lean.

If one of these choices doesn't apply to you, please feel free to discuss..Sorry but PLers and year-round bulkers, I think we understand why you hold some extra fat.

You stated in the above quote that you are having a hard time staying lean after a long period of dieting.

My take on this that after your extended period of dieting that you lowered your basal metabolic rate. I think it was Dan Duchaine years ago that wrote about testing your body temp daily upon first thing awakening. He stated that your thyroid woud get sluggish as your normal body temperature starts to drop. Makes sense to me and that saying ............

When your returned back to lean bulking you had an altered basal metabolic rate and over shot your estimate for excess calories you needed to bulk with while putting on minimal body fat gain.

Any thoughts ?????

 

[Ironchef]

"Clean Bulk"

First off guys just a little background info on me, Ive been on the boards
for about a year, great forum. Also I have a degree in food science and I am a certified personal
trainer through NASM (considered the best in the industry) and I train clients at Golds gym. As far as bulking goes very simple, as you alll know you must maintain a calorie surplus. I read one of the posts that someone takes in 450 grams of protein and 400 grams of carbs or something to that effect. Theoretically, you can not assimilate that much protein. Most of it will be wasted. Typically you want 60% of your calories to come from carbohydrate mostly complex, 20% protein and 20% healty fats to sustain lean body mass gain. A lot of the time the reason extra fat is gained during a bulk is way to many calories in the improper ratios. It is imparitive that calories are kept track of meal to meal. Also To figure how many calories you are really burning. I am currently bulking but still lean, 190 lbs at 9.7% bf. I burn around 2,800 calories a day lifting 5 days per week, making my caloric intake around 3,400 calories with the proper ratios. I wear a device that measures my caloric expenditure so I know precisely how many calories I need to maintain lean body mass gain. Also If you do take in 60% carbohydrate you will find you have a lot more energy during your workouts. Taking in to much protein is a waste of time and money. I still make quality gains on around 1 gram per pound of lean body mass. Wich is around 20% of my diet.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

First off guys just a little background info on me, Ive been on the boards
for about a year, great forum. Also I have a degree in food science and I am a certified personal
trainer through NASM (considered the best in the industry) and I train clients at Golds gym. As far as bulking goes very simple, as you alll know you must maintain a calorie surplus. I read one of the posts that someone takes in 450 grams of protein and 400 grams of carbs or something to that effect. Theoretically, you can not assimilate that much protein. Most of it will be wasted. Typically you want 60% of your calories to come from carbohydrate mostly complex, 20% protein and 20% healty fats to sustain lean body mass gain. A lot of the time the reason extra fat is gained during a bulk is way to many calories in the improper ratios.

Taking in to much protein is a waste of time and money. I still make quality gains on around 1 gram per pound of lean body mass. Wich is around 20% of my diet.

Well, to put it simply, you are wrong. I don't know where you are getting your information but there is nothing special about protein that only lets to utilize and absorb a certain amount before increased gluconeogenesis occurs. That is based mostly on energy requirements and not the chemical strucutre of a macronutrient.

If you have a degree in "food science" (not familiuar with that one) then you should be aware of several studies using leucine infusion that show very high absortion rates when protein intake is high.

 

[foo.c]

One of my friends got a degree in Food Science. It must be an ag school thing ...

 

[shatfield]

all of the above, i just subconciously think I can eat what I want when I'm putting on muscle.

 

[Vincent124]

You can put on more muscle with more fat, and less muscle with less fat.

 

[BULK_CITY]

b/c im not as strict... what i mean by that is i eat tons of clean foods but since im not ultra strict i dont count every portion/measure it so i tend to eat too much sometimes... I'd rather be on the bigger side of things than eat too little... but sometimes its way too much

 

[alguard]

For good gains eat wholesome foods(especially protein) at least and play w/ fat to carb ratios in high amounts. Oh and follow a plan you can stick to for a while. Always keeping a log of what you ate every day and if you train w/ intensity you eventually find what works for you, Because everyone responds different to a specific diet. Simply for the fact that bodytype also plays a crucial role. Trial and Error

 

[gimli197]

i wrestle in college so it is hard for me to keep muscle during the season. I bulk during the summer and get huge. my strength also goes through the roof. I put on fat real easy but i feel when im a little chunky i put on a lot more muscle and strength

 

[1ad man]

i agree with chunky yes your gonna put on fat while bulking no doubt but cardio during bulking is important to keep fat under control because more calories means more left over not all calories are used up for weighttraining and you have to burn those extra calories with what running on the treadmill.

i get sick in tired when people say no running when bulking that is stupid no one has a perfect diet not even ronnie coleman even professional bodybuilders have cheat days and i remember jay cutler once said in one of his videos that fats are essiential to putting on weight. and you would be nuts eating 10000 calories a day without no fat. eat good fats flex seed oil. screw the six pack you get that while cutting. peace

 

[hardknock]

Well, to put it simply, you are wrong. I don't know where you are getting your information but there is nothing special about protein that only lets to utilize and absorb a certain amount before increased gluconeogenesis occurs. That is based mostly on energy requirements and not the chemical strucutre of a macronutrient.

If you have a degree in "food science" (not familiuar with that one) then you should be aware of several studies using leucine infusion that show very high absortion rates when protein intake is high.

He may, (however, this is old ) but, he may have been talking about studies showing not much of an added benefit of taking in more, than say, estimated-1.5g per/lb...

I was able to boost my weight from 185 to 202-05 using 55% carbs, 30% proteins, 15% fats. Turn around and cut it to 190ish. Now im doing the same thing, but using 45% proteins, but my weight is increasing slightly less than before....was shooting for 215ish, but im going to have to increase my carb intake again, like the before

 

[Jay Mc]

Well, to put it simply, you are wrong. I don't know where you are getting your information but there is nothing special about protein that only lets to utilize and absorb a certain amount before increased gluconeogenesis occurs. That is based mostly on energy requirements and not the chemical strucutre of a macronutrient.

If you have a degree in "food science" (not familiuar with that one) then you should be aware of several studies using leucine infusion that show very high absortion rates when protein intake is high.

Guess it depends on who you read and what you believe. Consider a couple things: 1) the efficiency of protein metabolism increases with training 2) protein only accounts for about 20% of energy metabolism

all told 20% of calories in a hypercaloric diet should be more than adequate for even the super active.

One man's opinion...

 

[tylerwal]

I'm ok with gaining more fat while bulking as long as it's kept under control.

 

[Sooty]

Sometimes i just lose control, and my mind tells me that Taco Bell is healthy and clean.. but its not (maybe the salads are, but i get the huge burritos)

Thats why I gain fat... im close to the heaviest person im my family at 163. haha

 

[jmh80]

My answer is that I decide to have a cheat day. Then, that cheat day slowly starts creeping in to the diet to where every day is a cheat day (that's usually a week or so later).

It's d*mn hard to stop eating sh*tty once you get started.



Word to that Sooty. Word.

 

[exnihilo]

My weakness is food that is just sitting out at parties and what not. I've usually had one or two drinks at that point so my judgment is slightly imparied at that time. Sometimes I will also pick up a piece of candy at a checkout line when I'm hungry and I don't feel like waiting for my next meal. Neither of these is frequent so I try not to beat myself up over it too much.

I am actually eating pretty well these days, with the possible exception of more fiber/fresh veggies (yeah, I know) I don't really see what I could do to my diet to improve it. The sad thing is that keeping an internal meal schedule by deciding ahead of time when I am going to have my next meal, and putting all my meals into 16oz cottage cheese containers has made a bigger difference than anything.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

He may, (however, this is old ) but, he may have been talking about studies showing not much of an added benefit of taking in more, than say, estimated-1.5g per/lb...

I was able to boost my weight from 185 to 202-05 using 55% carbs, 30% proteins, 15% fats. Turn around and cut it to 190ish. Now im doing the same thing, but using 45% proteins, but my weight is increasing slightly less than before....was shooting for 215ish, but im going to have to increase my carb intake again, like the before

That is because of the thermic effects of protein, not because its "wasted".

And those studies were done on sedintary people.

Wow, old thread.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Guess it depends on who you read and what you believe. Consider a couple things: 1) the efficiency of protein metabolism increases with training 2) protein only accounts for about 20% of energy metabolism

all told 20% of calories in a hypercaloric diet should be more than adequate for even the super active.

One man's opinion...

1.) But is proportionate to energy expenditure (ie, increased gluconeogenesis)

2.) But has a higher thermic effect than any other macronutrient. Now according to most literature that won't cause much but they are also basing that on the FDA recommendations of protein intake, not the 2-4x amounts seen with bodybuilders.

 

[Ripped1]

I have no problem with putting the weight on in the off season. I get to about 5000 caloris a day and weigh in at 210. I am shooting for 220-225 after this upcoming show. But I usually am at about 16% bf

 

[myfathersboy]

'cause bacon tastes good...Pork chops taste good.....

(Sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I wouldn't know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy mother****ers)

 

[jomi822]

the funny thing is...before i started weight training i could eat all day and night and not gain a pound of fat.

my sophomore year (high school) i ran track and played lacrosse and decided after lax ended i was going to gain "a few pounds". i went from 180 to 220ish in a little less than 5 months (no aas use), and almost none of it was fat. i think i owe that to being 16 and drinking a gallon of milk(1%) a day. my weight training regimine was retarded, in retrospect. i got called into the drug couselors office a few days after school started and he threatened to juice test me out the ass, never happend though.

since the huge lean mass gain i have found it much easier to pack on fat. it almost makes me wish i had never thought about getting hyooooooge. now ive worked my way nicely into the fat winters and the freaknasty muscle summers. in my opinion it doesnt compare to being in "ok" shape year round and eating whatever you want.

there is no time like the present, so i would say now my biggest problem with fat gain is the fact that when i just load myself up with protein, fat, carbs, whatever, my muscle mass and strength load up as well. cutting out the cals means cutting out my strength. unacceptable. :nono:

 

[TUCKER]

i used to eat what ever i wanted without gaining fat..then i tried tho gnc weight gainers when i was younger and that created the stomach fat problem...its been a pain in the ass since

 

[theshocker21]

FAT Intake. You have to remember that your body has no problem storing a Saturated Fat because it is already in Storage form. When bulking its hard to eat excess calories when the "fatty" flavor isn't there. Well, that is my problem.

 

[Sooty]

I think I probably get a lot of my fat from milk. I drink pretty much 1 gallon or so a day, sometimes 2. My parents hate. This is the 2 percent stuff and has some fat in it.

Other than that, i really dont eat or drink anything that has a lot of fat in it.

Oh and i dont do cardio very often, maybe 2 two four hours a week total.

 

[darkpoet3113]

i'm a horribly endo, but when bulking i really dont give a feck about gaining fat. ****.. as long as you're eating all natural wholesome foods MOST of the time feck it! i what i do is if i'm gaining excess fat during bulking... i try to cut my carbs down a bit.. just don't eat so much ****! lol
cheers,
darkpoet3113

 

[BOHICA]

Because bulking isn't fun if you don't get to eat good foods. That eating clean **** is for the birds :lol:

 

[alguard]

Guys Guys c'mon, Only follow one advice , what your body tells you. The truth is only many years of hard work, determination and dedication will unfold the secrets of your true potential. You can never know to much and you'll never stop learning. Experince-You win some you lose some-
Back on the subject, I am an ecto-meso morph so mostly high fats 50%saturared mostly from milk, and eggs..50%EFA's blends in different ratios Is key.
I like staying lean and eating as much as I can because of my fast metabolism(REAL &WHOLESOME ORGANIC FOOD NOT SYNTHETIC MAN MADE S**T) when I want to bulk, focusing on a weak point training should be a high priority.
EXAMPLE: At 18 my arms were lagging-I preformed seated dumbell curls and concentration curls superset w/ triceps extensions and pulldowns for 1-2hrs a day 5 days out of the week for approximately 3-4mnths. I went from 15 to nearly 18inch arms. Even if I was sore i still pulled it off e.d.
No other exercises were preformed. Just what was typed.
I always had this theory that overloading small muscle groups(since they heal faster than larger muscle groups) would work
because the body stores nutrients for your next workout to heal but, It wouldnt work if, for example: I performed squats and then biceps, get it. I preserved my precious nutrients solely for my arms.

 

[FitnFirm]

Well lucky me I havent gained any fat while doing a lean bulk

 

[Hbs6]

Dont skip out on cardio...

 

[CHAPS]

I gain fat when bulking from my calorie intake which is needed to put on more muscle, and when bulking i don't crave crap it's only when i'm restricted on a diet that i crave burgers n stuff. But if i feel like it i'll have it. Also if your eating enough calories for bulking you SHOULD be putting on SOME fat, the amount will vary from person to person but you should be seeing some fat gain as well as muscle gain. Anytime people try to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time you will REALLY comprimise on both, so you'll probably gain 4lbs of muscle and drop 2lbs of fat, something along those lines. Unless your using certain drugs like igf-1, gh, pgf-2, MGF, etc.