The protein myth

Page 7 of 7 First ... 567

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    I eat a lot of protein (1.5-2gr/lb) every 2-3 hrs and I'm jacked & strong.....science that!!!!

    /me being a doucher

    I'm half joking/ half serious
    Hell yeah! Sample size of one ftw!
    Bulk Performance Solutions
    --No Proprietary Blends, All Performance--

    ***NOW @ NP***


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    Just, curious, but how many of you with such strong opinions about what science is have any actual background in science?
    my first go around in college i studied physics. stopped just short of my degree as i did not go into that field. i didnt take the fluff classes to get all the credits i needed but did spend some time in a research lab.

    does that count as having a science background?
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    Confidence intervals are not faith, nor are statistics. Noone has zero uncertainty about anything - but that still does not make having faith in different things equally valid. I can 'have faith' the sun will rise because it has risen every day for the entirety of my life and the lives of every human who ever lived, but that does not validate believing in a 6000 year old earth.

    And you must ask yourself - if everybody has faith, then SOMEBODY's faith is wrong. What makes you so sure your faith isn't the wrong one? Is your faith sustained by nothing but itself? Faith cannot support faith, as that is just then a claim without evidence, and so can be logically dismissed without evidence. Nor is the Bible, nor any other holy text, anything more than a claim without evidence.

    If every last scrap of science was destroyed and forgotten, it could all be entirely reestablished with simple observation and experimentation - no God could be so discovered. No holy revelation could so be regained, without a miracle. If truth is self-evident, the idea of needing a higher-power to specifically reveal what is true and what is not through unverifiable scripture cannot itself be true.

    So my faith is really just trusting in evidence that I myself, and others like me, gather and test. And it is an ongoing process - errors are constantly found and rectified in an onward march. If such suggested or supported divine intervention, I would be open to the idea - because we are constantly searching for what is actual truth, regardless of whether it falls into what we want to be true.

    I did not want to stop believing in God, but there simply isn't the evidence to support it. Even though the truth's of religion are supposedly immutable, we've seen countless changes in every church over the millenia - because they're so-called infallible truth is fallible. And if it's fallible, then so is God. And if he's fallible, he's not God.

    So yes, scientist have faith, but it is faith that their recorded and observed and REPEATABLE phenomenon follow a certain set of natural laws. This is based on experiments that anyone could discern for themselves with logic and not books of ancient tradition passed down verbally or carved on sticks for generations.
    Mine isn't based on books alone. You don't have to defend anything man. No one is challenging your view point.

    In part, I base my faith the same way Paul did in the NT. A plethora of experiences that statistically are nearly impossible. Furthermore, there are 10's of millions of other people who also take up the same faith that also have many statisically unlikely happenings. I have the same motivations to believe what I do as you do with confidence intervals. Not to mention the big one, which was the permanent heart change that happened to me several years back and literally a new nature in my mind. You talk about God being fallible, yet you can't prove it. That's just the thing. You call it lack of evidence, I call it too much pride. The challenge is not finding evidence for God, the challenge is moving oneself off the throne of "god" and allow someone more fitting to take the seat. This has been an age-old issue - people desiring to be their own god, deciding their own system of truth and establishing their own set of morals -->complete chaos if the whole world simultaneously decided to do that.

    I don't challenge other beliefs. I just let people observe mine (along with many others), and decide for themselves. Just because they can't find reason or understanding in my faith doesn't make it wrong or inaccurate. It just means they made a choice to not believe. I've learned over the years that there is no arguing with people who have a fleshy approach to believe systems. I don't want to discuss about who's faith is null and void and who's is logical with someone who is incapable of believing in unseen things to begin with.

    I don't know how this got away like it has but protein at one point was the main topic of discussion. Let's get back to that.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post


    I did not want to stop believing in God, but there simply isn't the evidence to support it. Even though the truth's of religion are supposedly immutable, we've seen countless changes in every church over the millenia -
    Just want to say that I respect your opinion and don't really have a problem with it. I just can't help myself from stating my opinion as well.

    To me the proof of a supreme being (creator) is evident from the things observed around us. All due to pure happen chance? In my opinion, no. I believe in evolution, not as a religion but just a process. There must be a reason for it all.
    The church has evolved over many years weather Christians want to believe it or not. That is how God planned it. What would be the purpose if God just appeared to you and said, "this is what i want you to do". And He explained the plan for you. That would be like a free lunch or giving a 16 year old a new lamborgini for his first car. You don't deserve a free lunch or a lamborgini. God doesn't want robots, He wants people to seek Him. If the proof was so easy to obtain than we would be a bunch of robots drinking the cool aid.


    Forget about the miracles and myth parts in the bible. Just focus on the message and purpose. If every one were to treat one another with love and respect this would be a better world. That's the kind of thing the bible teaches. Put others first. don't be selfish. Love your enemies. This is the hardest part for us to accept. What other religion teaches this? This is truth brah's.

    I spent a lot of time taking the bible apart piece by piece finding all the faults. And I have quite a bit of convincing proof that the stories in the bible don't add up. I finally gave up because in the end all that doesn't matter. What matters is that God does want a relationship with every one. Even me, and my faith is weak in comparison to a lot of other Christians.

    Bill

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    Just, curious, but how many of you with such strong opinions about what science is have any actual background in science?
    My background in science is academic and recreational (yes I said i science for recreational purposes ) I work in a patient care setting but am looking into getting into more of a research job
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
    •   
       


  6. I have no problem with someone challenging my viewpoint. My viewpoint can be challenged all you want - it's open to scrutiny, because I want to change based on available data. That's the difference, I want the errors in my beliefs to be found and eradicated. I do it for a living.

    Things is, I can mathematically demonstrate the necessity of evolution in a population from one generation to the next. I cannot do that with God. "Looking all around us" is not evidence.

    And Josh - don't go into research unless its at an upper level. workload to compensation ratio is real bad.

    Edit: Oh and Morph if more christians actually did what you say, I totally agree the world would be a better place. But at least the ones I've dealt with my entire life (in california, washington, nevada and texas) live less like Christ than many of the non-believers I know. Being a christian does not make you good and many christians have many beliefs that are not good.
    Bulk Performance Solutions
    --No Proprietary Blends, All Performance--

    ***NOW @ NP***

  7. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    I ll

    Yet, I don't have a strong opinion about what science is. I have a strong opinion about what science is not. It isn't absolute truth.
    Science doesnt claim to be absolute. Religion does. Scientist are quite content in the uncertainty and will readily admit they dont know everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post

    it isn't to be trusted with my soul. And it isn't gonna give me a sense of purpose or joy in life.
    Thats the reason for religions popularity. It fills the void in many peoples lives. Gives them a sense of purpose, meaning, belonging, etc. Religion has never filled that void in my life but science has

    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    It's our best explanation at that time under the constraints of very limited understanding. We just don't have the full picture and will likely never have it for any given topic in science.
    Correct

    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    With that, I'll end my part of the conversation in saying that if any of it were "fact" as in, I have zero uncertainty about it, then faith wouldn't and couldn't exist and therefore the principle behind the entire Bible and God would be invalid. Ultimately, I can't know it all. If I did, then I'd be God. But since I don't, faith must exist.
    Agree. Religion is ALL faith, blind faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    I can also easily argue that scientists also have tons of faith, just either in themselves, some other man, or otherwise some mysterious force of nature that is not fully understood or recognized. Even so, I bet there is a common denominator to all of those.
    No. Faith isnt required in science. I dont have faith in evolution, I simply accept the evidence thats being presented as the most plausible compared to other alternatives. This is not faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post

    And you must ask yourself - if everybody has faith, then SOMEBODY's faith is wrong. What makes you so sure your faith isn't the wrong one?
    YES!

    There has been thousands of religions and varations of beliefs, all of which claim they are absolute and have the truth. At best only 1 can be write but considering they all claim the same it is most likely that none is right. What makes one from catholic faith any more right than one from baptist faith? Or from islamic faith, from norse mythology, etc. Why is the God of Abraham true and Zeus is make believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    Is your faith sustained by nothing but itself? Faith cannot support faith, as that is just then a claim without evidence, and so can be logically dismissed without evidence. Nor is the Bible, nor any other holy text, anything more than a claim without evidence.
    Hitchens razor

    Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    it is an ongoing process - errors are constantly found and rectified in an onward march.
    Yes, science is the most exciting when they get things wrong.
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  8. Why's everyone ignoring my science!!!!


    I need attention!!!
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  9. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    In part, I base my faith the same way Paul did in the NT. A plethora of experiences that statistically are nearly impossible. Furthermore, there are 10's of millions of other people who also take up the same faith that also have many statisically unlikely happenings. I have the same motivations to believe what I do as you do with confidence intervals.
    So your religion is true because it is popular and filled with unexplainable stories? I think its safe to say this is true of all religions and faiths. There are a great number of muslims on this planet and im sure they have just as many unexplainable situations that happen to them. What makes one true and the other false? What about the varations that exist within Christendom? Im sure just as many Catholics that have unexplainable happenings to them as say protestants

    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    You talk about God being fallible, yet you can't prove it. That's just the thing. You call it lack of evidence, I call it too much pride.
    You can not prove a negative nor is it his responsibility. I cant disprove that the easter bunny isnt the love child of Santa clause and rudolph. Does this make it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by itzmorph View Post

    What would be the purpose if God just appeared to you and said, "this is what i want you to do". And He explained the plan for you. That would be like a free lunch or giving a 16 year old a new lamborgini for his first car. You don't deserve a free lunch or a lamborgini. God doesn't want robots, He wants people to seek Him. If the proof was so easy to obtain than we would be a bunch of robots drinking the cool aid.
    Um... isnt that how we got the bible? A guy is all alone in a cave, dessert, mountain top, etc and god then appears to him and breaks down everything and the guy goes forth a spreads the word?

    Quote Originally Posted by itzmorph View Post
    Forget about the miracles and myth parts in the bible. Just focus on the message and purpose. If every one were to treat one another with love and respect this would be a better world. That's the kind of thing the bible teaches. Put others first. don't be selfish. Love your enemies. This is the hardest part for us to accept. What other religion teaches this? This is truth brah's.
    Problem is, this is not the only message of the bible nor is it the result of religiosity
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post

    I have no problem with someone challenging my viewpoint. My viewpoint can be challenged all you want - it's open to scrutiny, because I want to change based on available data. That's the difference, I want the errors in my beliefs to be found and eradicated. I do it for a living.
    And its what makes science so amazing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    And Josh - don't go into research unless its at an upper level. workload to compensation ratio is real bad.
    Matches what I have been told before, lol. I want to work in a research setting to see if it something I enjoy or not. My university has an obesity research center I am trying to get into.
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Why's everyone ignoring my science!!!!


    I need attention!!!
    MOAR PROTEIN!!!!
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  12. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    So your religion is true because it is popular and filled with unexplainable stories? I think its safe to say this is true of all religions and faiths. There are a great number of muslims on this planet and im sure they have just as many unexplainable situations that happen to them. What makes one true and the other false? What about the varations that exist within Christendom? Im sure just as many Catholics that have unexplainable happenings to them as say protestants



    You can not prove a negative nor is it his responsibility. I cant disprove that the easter bunny isnt the love child of Santa clause and rudolph. Does this make it true?



    Um... isnt that how we got the bible? A guy is all alone in a cave, dessert, mountain top, etc and god then appears to him and breaks down everything and the guy goes forth a spreads the word?



    Problem is, this is not the message of the bible nor is it the result of religiosity.
    Judo, I respected you up until that last post in BOLD^^^

    You are simply dead wrong in that statement. The point of the Bible is very clear, even the Old Testament is completely in line with the New Testament teachings, as Jesus and Paul both use the OT extensively to get points across in the NT. I respect your understanding of science as always. But who are you to talk about a God whom you do not know? I bet you haven't even read the New Testament gospel in its entirety, which is apparent after that last statement you made. Your lack of understanding of this just came to light, and quite honestly after seeing that response, I feel like your perspective is clearly built out of hatred towards Christ, the Bible, and in general anything that challenges men to a higher standard than their own.

    I was out of line earlier for what I said to the other gentleman, even though he went out of his way to attack what is most dear to me, my God. Yet you are deliberately doing the very same thing with no other incentive I'm sure than to reassure your own position. That's fine man. But you aren't going to change me simply because my life is not my own and I couldn't change my faith if I wanted to.

    Believe what you want, but keep it and preach it to yourself. You guys are always challenging Christians to stop "putting their beliefs on others", how about you do the same as well.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Judo, I respected you up until that last post in BOLD^^^

    You are simply dead wrong in that statement. The point of the Bible is very clear, even the Old Testament is completely in line with the New Testament teachings, as Jesus and Paul both use the OT extensively to get points across in the NT. I respect your understanding of science as always. But who are you to talk about a God whom you do not know? I bet you haven't even read the New Testament gospel in its entirety, which is apparent after that last statement you made. Your lack of understanding of this just came to light, and quite honestly after seeing that response, I feel like your perspective is clearly built out of hatred towards Christ, the Bible, and in general anything that challenges men to a higher standard than their own.

    I was out of line earlier for what I said to the other gentleman, even though he went out of his way to attack what is most dear to me, my God. Yet you are deliberately doing the very same thing with no other incentive I'm sure than to reassure your own position. That's fine man. But you aren't going to change me simply because my life is not my own and I couldn't change my faith if I wanted to.

    Believe what you want, but keep it and preach it to yourself. You guys are always challenging Christians to stop "putting their beliefs on others", how about you do the same as well.
    And to be clear, that "man in a cave" was Moses, who wrote the Torah, which is the first 5 books of the Bible.

    Once again, as a reminder, 40 authors, 66 books, written over a period of 1500 years, 3 different continents, 3 different languages, same message throughout.

    If we just took the infinite external factors that could have stopped the Bible from being written and copied, and made those factors finite, we would still come to mind-blowing odds of it happening, consider the near infinite things that could have occurred in that 1500 years and 40 authors...do the math. Stop talking in a "matter of fact" tone please.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    And to be clear, that "man in a cave" was Moses, who wrote the Torah, which is the first 5 books of the Bible.
    I was referencing Muhammad

    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post

    Once again, as a reminder, 40 authors, 66 books, written over a period of 1500 years, 3 different continents, 3 different languages, same message throughout.
    If I may add some more statistics to this, this was all edited in the 17th century based off of translations that were written in the 16th century off of scrolls from the 4th century of which exist over 8,000 varatiins with no two being alike but all of which claim to be copies of scrolls that were written in the first century and hundreds of years after the last apostle died.

    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    If we just took the infinite external factors that could have stopped the Bible from being written and copied, and made those factors finite, we would still come to mind-blowing odds of it happening, consider the near infinite things that could have occurred in that 1500 years and 40 authors...do the math. Stop talking in a "matter of fact" tone please.
    Exactly

    That is the reason why I am extremely skeptical over its validity and why religion is truly only faith based. One needs a hell of a lotta faith to reject empiracal evidence and instead relay solely on an ancient book that odds are its wrong.
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  15. I clicked the linked to read facts about protein myth and I see bunch of stuff about religion.

    What is this, muscular development?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post









    That is the reason why I am extremely skeptical over its validity and why religion is truly only faith based. One needs a hell of a lotta faith to reject empiracal evidence and instead relay solely on an ancient book that odds are its wrong.
    I have to deal with being a skeptic every Sunday morning bible class. ie, the flood story, virgin birth story, etc....

    My preacher says that if you don't believe in the virgin birth you have no faith. Well, i don't believe the Holy Spirit caused Mary to become pregnant. Also don't believe the flood was universal, had to be local. But I still have faith.
    I don't believe a lot of the far fetched stories in the bible. The new testament reads that we are all to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. That's what I am doing.
    It is really difficult to explain so some one who has already made up their mind about religion about the truth. A person really needs to be born again and with the renewing of their mind the message becomes more clear. It all begins with humbling ones self. Humility wins here.
    The problem with Satan is that he didn't want to humble himself and wants to put himself in the place of God. (Story used for illustration only) But makes sense none the less. We do the same through pride.
    Use the stories in the bible for illustration purposes, no need to take them so literal.
    The life lessons illustrated in the bile are undeniably very valuable for showing man the correct way to live. How can some thing so right be so wrong?

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Colbert View Post
    I clicked the linked to read facts about protein myth and I see bunch of stuff about religion.

    What is this, muscular development?
    Dude....I tried
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  18. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Judo, I respected you up until that last post in BOLD^^^

    You are simply dead wrong in that statement. The point of the Bible is very clear, even the Old Testament is completely in line with the New Testament teachings, as Jesus and Paul both use the OT extensively to get points across in the NT. I respect your understanding of science as always. But who are you to talk about a God whom you do not know? I bet you haven't even read the New Testament gospel in its entirety, which is apparent after that last statement you made. Your lack of understanding of this just came to light, and quite honestly after seeing that response, I feel like your perspective is clearly built out of hatred towards Christ, the Bible, and in general anything that challenges men to a higher standard than their own.

    I was out of line earlier for what I said to the other gentleman, even though he went out of his way to attack what is most dear to me, my God. Yet you are deliberately doing the very same thing with no other incentive I'm sure than to reassure your own position. That's fine man. But you aren't going to change me simply because my life is not my own and I couldn't change my faith if I wanted to.

    Believe what you want, but keep it and preach it to yourself. You guys are always challenging Christians to stop "putting their beliefs on others", how about you do the same as well.
    I attacked nothing. I genuinely wanted to have an open conversation about a subject very near to me. I was very religious for a very long time, but I wasn't being honest with myself- there were just too many holes and illogical gaps in christian existence. I apologize if simply showing inadequacies in christianity is attacking it - last time I checked when someone diagnoses a problem with good intentions its not an attack, its information. Information that changed my life and helped me understand what genuine truth is. The things I wrote are very legitimate questions you should be asking yourself. If you can't answer them honestly and without fallacy, there's a problem.

    And the point of the Bible, like any book, is subjective to the scrutiny of the reader. And I've read the bible from cover to cover many times. It was just part of growing up.

    Don't say God calls us to higher living. I left the church of the global hypocrisy it exhibits. The ideal Christian may be better than the average man, but I have yet to meet such an individual outside the pages of the new testament.

    The part I've bolded makes me sad. I don't want to reassure my position - honestly, I want God to be real. I want there to be a heaven. But it just doesn't add up. And the outlook that you're not your own is such an unhealthy one - that you have to do what something else wants you to do with no regard in the matter? Then you just apply confirmation bias to the situation, ascribing every positive thing and none of the negatives to God's intervention, to keep the deception going, to convince yourself that your doubts are the lies, not the scriptures. It's the most oppressed I've ever felt.
    Bulk Performance Solutions
    --No Proprietary Blends, All Performance--

    ***NOW @ NP***

  19. SSsooo......about those great protein sources.....
    Current Log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/277069-new-year-new.html#post5232295

  20. listen buddy, i used to be a vegetarian for like 10 years. it's no good for gains or bodybuilding unless you are very, very disciplined with your diet. even then, it is still difficult to get enough protein imo.

  21. Are we still ignoring various studies indicating the benefit of high protein intake being optimal for hypertrophy for the "good enough" jargon prevalent these days?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by johnnybeegood View Post
    listen buddy, i used to be a vegetarian for like 10 years. it's no good for gains or bodybuilding unless you are very, very disciplined with your diet. even then, it is still difficult to get enough protein imo.
    Haha awesome.
  23. you can call me "ozzie" for short.
  24. The protein myth


    Edit: got caught up in reading this post. Apologies for posting on a old thread.

  25. I remember this thread


    Good times
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  26. Holy crap I was 2nd in here...Anyway, my statement still stands.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-15-2007, 08:52 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-29-2005, 07:42 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-29-2005, 07:41 PM
  4. Seems the Old Myth is Actually True
    By YellowJacket in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 04-18-2005, 11:25 PM
Log in
Log in