I'm Overthinking This

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  1. Your two's arguing made me laugh :P Rodja, you haven't suggested any other movements to even out the routine, just talked about how there are
    11 lifts that stress the internal rotators and only 4 for the external rotators.
    Gimme some hints if it's that big of a deal to argue over

    Edit1:
    As for lifts that cause pain, reverse bb curl. I will probably switch to DB's or scrap it for plate pinches*which I think I'll do*

    Edit2:
    Oh, 3x12 on all lifts
    I don't go lift, I don't go workout, I don't go train....I go get sexy....sexy as fwuark!!!!!!!!!


  2. Quote Originally Posted by xigotmailx View Post
    Your two's arguing made me laugh :P Rodja, you haven't suggested any other movements to even out the routine, just talked about how there are Gimme some hints if it's that big of a deal to argue over

    Edit1:
    As for lifts that cause pain, reverse bb curl. I will probably switch to DB's or scrap it for plate pinches*which I think I'll do*

    Edit2:
    Oh, 3x12 on all lifts
    Sometimes BB reverse curls cause issue for me too. I broke the same bone in my left wrist twice as a kid and I'm pretty sure the pain is an extension of that. *


    Dumbells or a knurled bar gripped at the right angle cause no issue though.




    * FTR, I don't have a double blind, peer reviewed study conducted in a controlled setting to prove this. I only have one left wrist. Pain very well could be caused by something else. Dumbells and knurled bars work either way though, for me.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by xigotmailx View Post
    Your two's arguing made me laugh :P Rodja, you haven't suggested any other movements to even out the routine, just talked about how there are Gimme some hints if it's that big of a deal to argue over

    Edit1:
    As for lifts that cause pain, reverse bb curl. I will probably switch to DB's or scrap it for plate pinches*which I think I'll do*

    Edit2:
    Oh, 3x12 on all lifts
    Lifts you have listed that stress internal rotators:
    All chest movements
    DB/BB shoulder presses
    Pullups/downs

    Lifts for external:
    Rows
    Rear fly

    Forearm curls are a waste of time compared to grip training, which will stimulate both the flexors and extensors in a static motion. Utilizing something along the lines of Fat Gripz during training will take away the need for any forearm training and will also ease any elbow pain you may incur.

    Sticking to one specific rep range is a recipe for stagnation after the initial accumulation. One of the biggest reasons for a quick plateau with BB'ing routines is a lack of any periodization and overload. The simple adage of "eat more and lift heavier" does not qualify as a periodization scheme.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  4. Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    I'm talking about aesthetic balance he seems to be after. You can talk about planar balance if you want.

    Let's be totally cautious though and have him eliminate squats, deads and bent over rows. He's headed to herniated disks for sure!
    I don't understand why rather than acknowledge the suggestion of someone who is better informed, your immediate reaction is to disregard it and make it seem that it is without basis. You did the same on another post when someone, using current research, challenged the six meals a day paradigm. There are a few people on this board who are both intelligent and well read on physiology, nutrition and exercise science and Rodja is one of them.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    I don't understand why rather than acknowledge the suggestion of someone who is better informed, your immediate reaction is to disregard it and make it seem that it is without basis. You did the same on another post when someone, using current research, challenged the six meals a day paradigm. There are a few people on this board who are both intelligent and well read on physiology, nutrition and exercise science and Rodja is one of them.
    Regarding this thread, I'm not challenging Rodja and his planar balance advice that may or may not be given. I was discussing an aesthetic balance, which he challenged with planar balance. It's really not even an argument as they are two totally separate issues. It's a shame it was forced to become an argument. As stated, I'm sure Rodja can make interesting points regarding planar balance. Still a different topic though.

    Regarding diet, the whole argument spun off of applying one methodology to another. Anyone not stuck on ramrodding an argument will tell you this is stupid. Multiple diets work through various metabolic pathways and to say one is wrong, though it has been successfully implemented for decades is also stupid. Do people understand how IF works? Yes. Have I acknowledged it works from the beginning? Yes. Is this even the point of contention at all? No.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Lifts you have listed that stress internal rotators:
    All chest movements
    DB/BB shoulder presses
    Pullups/downs

    Lifts for external:
    Rows
    Rear fly

    Forearm curls are a waste of time compared to grip training, which will stimulate both the flexors and extensors in a static motion. Utilizing something along the lines of Fat Gripz during training will take away the need for any forearm training and will also ease any elbow pain you may incur.

    Sticking to one specific rep range is a recipe for stagnation after the initial accumulation. One of the biggest reasons for a quick plateau with BB'ing routines is a lack of any periodization and overload. The simple adage of "eat more and lift heavier" does not qualify as a periodization scheme.
    Thanks for pointing those things out, but could you suggest some lifts to change up to even out the imbalance you've pointed out. Maybe by eliminating the DB shoulder press for another lift that hits the external rotators, that would even things up?

    I am going with plate pinches for grip/forearm training

    As for periodization, I will start to add sets as my body begins to become more accumulated with the workout as it is now. Every now and then I will switch up the principals of Volume, Intensity, Frequency. This type of split for me has shown the best gains so far. I have a couple upper/lower routines as well as full body
    I don't go lift, I don't go workout, I don't go train....I go get sexy....sexy as fwuark!!!!!!!!!

  7. I'd rotate between BB and DB shoulder presses instead of both and replaced with facepulls or seated DB cleans. Take out the 1 arm pulldowns on back day and then one of the crossover and one fly as well on chest. I'm not sure why you dips listed for shoulders and traps.

    That right there takes out 4 internal rotation movements and adds an additional external rotator movement.

    On a different note, don't superset skullcrushers and close grip. Do them separately with close grip first.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  8. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I'd rotate between BB and DB shoulder presses instead of both and replaced with facepulls or seated DB cleans. Take out the 1 arm pulldowns on back day and then one of the crossover and one fly as well on chest. I'm not sure why you dips listed for shoulders and traps.

    That right there takes out 4 internal rotation movements and adds an additional external rotator movement.

    On a different note, don't superset skullcrushers and close grip. Do them separately with close grip first.

    Shoulders & Traps
    Military Press
    BB Shrug
    DB Rear Lateral
    DB Shrug
    *Seated DB Clean or Face Pulls
    *Face Pulls or Rear BB Shrug?



    Back
    Rack Deadlift
    Bent Over Row
    *T-Bar Row
    Pullups
    Lat Pulldown
    Seated Cable Row


    Chest
    Flat DB Bench
    Incline BB Bench
    High Pulley Crossover
    Incline DB Flies
    *Dips
    *???


    Legs
    Squat
    Stiff Leg Deadlift
    Leg Press
    Hack Squat
    Leg Curl
    Leg Extension


    Arms
    Close Grip Bench
    BB Curl
    Skull Crusher
    DB Curl
    Overhead Triceps Extension
    Plate Pinch
    Rope Triceps Pressdown

    Does that look better? I would like 1 more chest exercise and some input on the shoulders/traps day again. With the seated db clean and facepull, would it be alright to add both? All edits/questions made are in red.
    I don't go lift, I don't go workout, I don't go train....I go get sexy....sexy as fwuark!!!!!!!!!

  9. If you're doing DB shrugs, there's not much point to doing rear BB shrug. Alternate between facepulls and seated DB cleans or, after you get the form down, occasionally superset them. On back, alternate between T-bar, DB, and Meadows rows for variation. 5 lifts for chest is more than enough and put dips before the isolation work.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  10. Thanks a bunch for the help! I can't wait to see the results from this. I may or may not start my cycle on Monday, if not Monday, then it'll be next monday
    I don't go lift, I don't go workout, I don't go train....I go get sexy....sexy as fwuark!!!!!!!!!

  11. Quote Originally Posted by xigotmailx View Post
    Thanks a bunch for the help! I can't wait to see the results from this. I may or may not start my cycle on Monday, if not Monday, then it'll be next monday
    No problem. If you have any more questions, PM me.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  12. Quote Originally Posted by xigotmailx View Post
    Does that look better? I would like 1 more chest exercise and some input on the shoulders/traps day again. With the seated db clean and facepull, would it be alright to add both? All edits/questions made are in red.
    From an aesthetic perspective, your modified routine is geared heavily to build thickness on back day, which is fine, but if you get in to it and feel you need more width you will have to add more pulldowns. Internal rotation and all. You can **** around with wide grip rows but it isn't the same. Pullovers are great too.

    Your shoulders, from an aesthetic perspective, will really benefit from lateral and front raises. They respond well to high volume and isolation work.

    Facepulls are awesome. Kudos for adding them.

  13. From an aesthetic view, adding front raises will only serve to create an imbalance between front delts and rear delts. For reasons aforementioned.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    From an aesthetic view, adding front raises will only serve to create an imbalance between front delts and rear delts. For reasons aforementioned.
    Exactly. Youll see guys in the gym doing sets of overhead press, then 4 sets lateral raises, then 4 sets front raises. After all that they'll finally do some bent over rear delt flys with 5 pounders.

    I think your average gym go-er have under developed posterior delts.
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
    [email protected]
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    From an aesthetic view, adding front raises will only serve to create an imbalance between front delts and rear delts. For reasons aforementioned.
    Not with rear laterals and facepulls in the mix along with his rows, as previously mentioned.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    Not with rear laterals and facepulls in the mix along with his rows, as previously mentioned.
    I still doubt that those can match the amount of a trashing the average gym person places on their anterior delts after a bench session.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post
    Exactly. Youll see guys in the gym doing sets of overhead press, then 4 sets lateral raises, then 4 sets front raises. After all that they'll finally do some bent over rear delt flys with 5 pounders.

    I think your average gym go-er have under developed posterior delts.
    Generally speaking, yes. We don't really know if the OP has any imbalances. The routine itself doesn't necessarily favor front delts. His shoulder day already incorporates two rear delt exercises, his back day will hit them as well with rows and pulldowns/ups. If anything he can add band pull aparts or reverse flys for more volume though I don't think he will need it.

    He certainly shouldn't let a weak link dictate his program. Train it up IF it even develops.

    If the OP already has an imbalance then sure, don't feed it. But my response is to his routine, not what I assume his shoulders look like based on bromos at my gym.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    I still doubt that those can match the amount of a trashing the average gym person places on their anterior delts after a bench session.
    I'm not musing randomly about average gym goers. I'm talking about the specific outline in this thread.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    Generally speaking, yes. We don't really know if the OP has any imbalances. The routine itself doesn't necessarily favor front delts. His shoulder day already incorporates two rear delt exercises, his back day will hit them as well with rows and pulldowns/ups. If anything he can add band pull aparts or reverse flys for more volume though I don't think he will need it.

    He certainly shouldn't let a weak link dictate his program. Train it up IF it even develops.

    If the OP already has an imbalance then sure, don't feed it. But my response is to his routine, not what I assume his shoulders look like based on bromos at my gym.
    I was just making a general assessment in agreement to Jigz's post, not meant towards you or the OP specifically. I jumped into this convo late..
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
    [email protected]
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post
    I was just making a general assessment in agreement to Jigz's post, not meant towards you or the OP specifically. I jumped into this convo late..
    I know. I'm not jumping on you, I was just using your post to elaborate. Tone is hard to convey online

  21. loud noises!
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
    [email protected]
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.

  22. And Brick killed a guy!

  23. For shoulders, I did not do the front raises, I have put in side lateral raises in until I find another lift.

    For back, I added the T-bar rows and doing wide grip seated rows.

    For chest, I added DB Pullover *back, chest, SERRATUS* lol, obviously added for a reason

    Legs and arms seem to be good as is.

    I also pulled a 2-a-day, hitting shoulders am and back pm. Mostly due to being bored and hyper with only one thing on my mind. So, i'm unsure as what I will do tomorrow.

    Diet wise, i'm up 5 pounds...today lol. But, I feel at 180, that 3,000 calories will end up just being maintenance. I'm feeling that a good bulk from this cycle will set me up very well for a May cut/recomp with a 60mgTrenavar/10mgDMZ combo that I got a while back called, Pro Trenazine. Now, with diet in mind what do you all think would be a could caloric goal for me. The macros currently are quite in check, and maybe adding in a 800-1k calorie protein shake into the mix would have me making ALL KINDS OF GAINZZZ.

    What do you all think?
    I don't go lift, I don't go workout, I don't go train....I go get sexy....sexy as fwuark!!!!!!!!!

  24. Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    I'm not musing randomly about average gym goers. I'm talking about the specific outline in this thread.
    In any case, the anterior deltoids are placed under enormous stress during chest day and barely any stress is placed on rear delts during standard barbell rows. Have a read of this; http://www.unchainedfitness.com/blog...cle-activation

    It outlines the amount of stress the anterior deltoid gets over that of the rear deltoid due to the number of exerices that specifically include the anterior deltoid whether as a prime mover or synergist. Not to mention many people perform much more variations of the bench press and with high volume but conversely tend to have much lower volume for rear delt specific exercises (i.e. rear delt flys and band pull aprts/ face pulls etc.)

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    In any case, the anterior deltoids are placed under enormous stress during chest day and barely any stress is placed on rear delts during standard barbell rows. Have a read of this; http://www.unchainedfitness.com/blog...cle-activation

    It outlines the amount of stress the anterior deltoid gets over that of the rear deltoid due to the number of exerices that specifically include the anterior deltoid whether as a prime mover or synergist. Not to mention many people perform much more variations of the bench press and with high volume but conversely tend to have much lower volume for rear delt specific exercises (i.e. rear delt flys and band pull aprts/ face pulls etc.)
    We can agree to disagree where this specific routine in this thread is concerned.

    I am not arguing the general gym populace.
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