Bulking to get BIG

[Philshred]

Hey guys,

Currently I am 6.8 at around 232 lbs and have been lifting for a couple of years but have only started seeing gains once Iv'e fixed my diet and was finished growing. In the last year I have gained over 30 lbs and I am extremely intense in both the weight room and the kitchen imo.

My only problem is that I still feel like I am very skinny and I dream of having an impressive physique.

My current diet consists of

Meal 1:
8 whole eggs
2 slices of cheese
An apple

Meal 2:
1 banana
Handful of raw almonds
2 scoops of whey

Meal 3:
Canned tuna
1/2 cup of rice
2 slices of cheese

Meal 4:
1.0-1.4lbs of lean chicken breast
1 cup of rice
2 cups of steamed broccoli
2 slices of cheese

Meal 5:
2 scoops of whey
Handful of almonds
1 banana

Meal 6:
A tub of yoghourt and or peanut butter sandwich
An apple

My training routine summed up consists of a day focusing on a heavy bench, a lower body and a bench assistance day. The program consists of all the major lifts and is aimed at increasing my 1rm's.

Hopefully you guys can tell me if I am somewhat on the right path and I will take any suggestions you have in helping gain size. I am not afraid of going on a calorie overload especially after having discovered geoleeman and how much size he was able to put on by doing so.

My goal is to look like a 6.8 bodybuilder and I hope you guys can guide me.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Celorza]

Break down your current diet in Macro Nutrient amounts, tell us how many kCals , prot/fat/carbs it is and then we can help you out.

Just a little estimate would put yah at 4600 kCals to say the least for maintenance, so add up some more for Surplus and ratio it up in prot/fat/carbs.

Essentials are:

1g of prot per LB of BW
.45-.5g of fat per LB of BW

Carbs are non essential so the rest of the kCals needed should be added in the matter of carbs, and a bit of trace protein/fat in them. Crunch the numbers and you are good to go!

 

[herderdude]

As far as training goes, for maximum size and the bodybuilder look, I'd say you'd do well to include more than just bench, bench assistance, and legs in your program. A lot of weight/size/shape will come from having an awesome back and delts, especially at your height.

 

[Philshred]

Thanks for the help guys, Ill start calculating my macro's and get back to you guys.

My heavy bench day consists of:
Bench press
Close grip bench press
Chest supported row
Barbell extension
Face pull
Barbell curl
Planks/freeweight abb exercises

My lower body day consists of:
Back squats
Deadlift
Leg press
Back extension
Planks/freeweight abb exercises

My bench assistance day consists of:
Standing military press
Pullups
Close grip incline
Barbell rows
Elbows out dumbell extension
Barbell curls
Dumbell shrugs
Hanging leg raises

 

[khronic]

MORE RED MEAT! try and get in 1-2 lbs of red meat. wake up to meat/nut breakfast. Beware of food intolerences *wheat(oats), eggs, peanut butter etc could all progress into cortisol releasing outcomes which will hinder muscle gains and increase body fat! RED MEAT FTW, loads of creatine in it.

 

[rochabp]

Bodyfat?

 

[Bsiggy1]

Def. agree with the above red meat BUT not JUST red meat! just as an example ill show you my rough meal plan

meal 1
about 5-6 Egg whites 1 egg yolk (i like the taste)
1 cup oatmeal

meal 2
8-12 oz. white chicken
cup of brown rice
steamed broccoli and carrots

meal 3
10-12 oz. red meat (steak or beef tenderolin)
mashed sweet potato
*sometimes veggies OR juiced veggies*

meal 4
Lean complex protein shake
(mass complex messes with my stomach during the day)

meal 5
White chicken breast
Cup of rice

meal 6/7
10-16 oz tilapia or halibut (white fish)
cup of rice
steamed veggies and some grilled corn for some good flavor

meal 8
Steak or beef tenderloin
steamed veggies
OR
cup of rice and juiced veggies

Ive gained quite a bit of bulk from just lifting and eating, my metabolism has gone WAY UP im always hungry haha and my work outs always feel great!
I am 6ft 234lbs 15%bf

my friend who is a member on here who I work out with can contest to the size I have put on since i've started
hope this helps!!!

 

[Philshred]

Thanks a lot for the suggestion guys. Ill start eating some red meat and putting it back into my diet. I haven't been eating it on a daily for about 1 month since family members told me it was very unhealthy and that it promotes cancer. What are your opinions on that? I haven't measured my body fat, but since my bulk it has definitely slowly increased and my bottom two abs are not visible anymore. So my guess is around 15 percent.

 

[Bsiggy1]

Yes def. start eating some red meat but also white meat chicken breast, theres always pork, turkey, ground beef! theres a lot of options out there so you dont have to get used to eating the same ol thing every day lol as far as promotes cancer.... I am no doctor but I have NEVER heard that from anybody haha so I dont think you have to worry about that, but if you are you should consult your doctor

 

[vassille]

Thanks a lot for the suggestion guys. Ill start eating some red meat and putting it back into my diet. I haven't been eating it on a daily for about 1 month since family members told me it was very unhealthy and that it promotes cancer. What are your opinions on that? I haven't measured my body fat, but since my bulk it has definitely slowly increased and my bottom two abs are not visible anymore. So my guess is around 15 percent.

If you see top abs you around 10% bf not 15 if I were to make an educated guess without pic.
Your diet is good. Eat everything full fat and eat those fruits by themselves and have the fat with the protein shakes. As someone mentioned be careful of food allergies from grains and such. As long as you body has no digestive problems you on the right track.
Just give yourself time to build muscle it doesnt happen overnight, the muscle needs to grow and mature. in a few years you prob hit 280lbs.
I didnt look big till I hit 250lbs but im a lot shorter than you....so 280-300lbs is prob a good weight to chase.
You on the right track
Like you 8 eggs bfast is exactely what you body needs, dont switch to eggwhites. I sometimes eat a dozen full eggs a day if im hungrylol

 

[Philshred]

Thanks for all the suggestions and comments guys. It's great to know that there are people out there that are willing to help! I will probably write down some feedback here every two weeks to let you guys know how my bulk is going and if I have any other questions which I'm sure I will

 

[jewgold]

goood luck

 

[akoli]

hey phil i thought id jump in and give you a bt of advice from my point of view, a few people are telling you to not fear fats and thats fine but from my personal opinion you barely have any complex carbs in your diet. oatmeal, quinoa, brown rice, potatoes(red,white and sweet),low glycemic fruits should be dominating your diet right now , at your height you should be hitting a large amount of these carbs if you want to grow, and not only that but your body prefers to use these carbs for energy not fats and protein. your lacking the carbs in your breakfast for sure, after going all night without eating you should slam back at least 70-110g of carbs for breakfast alone.
but hey what do i know... went from a measly 151lbs to 180 in my first year of working out and im a natural ectamorph with slight mesa qualities, i think lol. well anyways good luck to you and feel free to ask more questions if you like

 

[vassille]

hey phil i thought id jump in and give you a bt of advice from my point of view, a few people are telling you to not fear fats and thats fine but from my personal opinion you barely have any complex carbs in your diet. oatmeal, quinoa, brown rice, potatoes(red,white and sweet),low glycemic fruits should be dominating your diet right now , at your height you should be hitting a large amount of these carbs if you want to grow, and not only that but your body prefers to use these carbs for energy not fats and protein. your lacking the carbs in your breakfast for sure, after going all night without eating you should slam back at least 70-110g of carbs for breakfast alone.
but hey what do i know... went from a measly 151lbs to 180 in my first year of working out and im a natural ectamorph with slight mesa qualities, i think lol. well anyways good luck to you and feel free to ask more questions if you like

This is just constructive criticism and not meant to bust your chops or anything. What you have described is a typical rookie sort of mistake to load up on carbs. You dont need to over load on carbs to grow. Carbs will only give you energy but fat gives you energy and the basis of pumping out a boat load of hormons. You want hormons. However, if carbs are used in conjunction with plenty of fat and adequate protein actually we are more insulin sensitive, which is what you want.
Im glad you made all these gains and if you want to make more gains try to understand this approach. As far as weight gain, I went from 165 to 270 at one point before I decided my health is more important then being that heavy

 

[pyrobatt]

This is just constructive criticism and not meant to bust your chops or anything. What you have described is a typical rookie sort of mistake to load up on carbs. You dont need to over load on carbs to grow. Carbs will only give you energy but fat gives you energy and the basis of pumping out a boat load of hormons. You want hormons. However, if carbs are used in conjunction with plenty of fat and adequate protein actually we are more insulin sensitive, which is what you want.
Im glad you made all these gains and if you want to make more gains try to understand this approach. As far as weight gain, I went from 165 to 270 at one point before I decided my health is more important then being that heavy

Healthy fats, good Carb sources,protien. Not so complicated. My macros are 30fats 30 carbs and 40 protien (%of calories in each macro) you can dip fats down to 20% and carbs up or protien

Gotta find the right number for you.
If you function well with high carbs no reason not to do what works.

 

[vassille]

Healthy fats, good Carb sources,protien. Not so complicated. My macros are 30fats 30 carbs and 40 protien (%of calories in each macro) you can dip fats down to 20% and carbs up or protien

Gotta find the right number for you.
If you function well with high carbs no reason not to do what works.

I never got good results on a low fat diet and when I increased my protein substantially I started to get sick. Short term what you are saying may be ok but you try high protein low fat for any length of time and if you dont get sick I;d be suprised.

 

[pyrobatt]

I never got good results on a low fat diet and when I increased my protein substantially I started to get sick. Short term what you are saying may be ok but you try high protein low fat for any length of time and if you dont get sick I;d be suprised.

30 % of my caloric intake is not low by any standards. I've been on this diet for a while.

 

[vassille]

30 % of my caloric intake is not low by any standards. I've been on this diet for a while.

how many g of protein you eating?

 

[pyrobatt]

how many g of protein you eating?

40 %of my caloric intake would be 300g but its closer to 220 -260 g on any given day

 

[vassille]

40 %of my caloric intake would be 300g but its closer to 220 -260 g on any given day

When I started having problems at was eating 350+g a day.
Im starting to think that size does not always dictates how much protein one could eat. THe usuall 1.5g per lb of weight is fine up to a certain point then the wheels come off. Now i eat about the same amount of protein as you do without issues and I mantain my mass just fine.

 

[Philshred]

Thanks for the replies guys and it's interesting to see your different points of view based on your experiences. I'm not sure if anyone is interested but here is my weekly weight since Iv'e started training seriously after a 3 week break. Note that before the break I was around 228lbs. I have been taking my weight every friday in the morning since.

Week 1- 224.6lbs
Week 2- 224.4lbs
Week 3- 229.6lbs
Week 4- 235lbs
Week 5- 236lbs
Week 6- 240lbs

During this time I have nothing else to do except workout, eat and sleep. So I'm trying my best to gain mass. However, I have definitely noticed that I have been gaining fat around my lower abdomen and that Im starting to get love handles.

Should I immediately change my diet, or carry on the same? I have noticed all my lifts have been going up and I feel great in the gym.
I would also like to mention that I'm currently not doing any cardio.

Any feedback would be great. I don't have anyone to go to for help.

Thank you

 

[vassille]

Thanks for the replies guys and it's interesting to see your different points of view based on your experiences. I'm not sure if anyone is interested but here is my weekly weight since Iv'e started training seriously after a 3 week break. Note that before the break I was around 228lbs. I have been taking my weight every friday in the morning since.

Week 1- 224.6lbs
Week 2- 224.4lbs
Week 3- 229.6lbs
Week 4- 235lbs
Week 5- 236lbs
Week 6- 240lbs

During this time I have nothing else to do except workout, eat and sleep. So I'm trying my best to gain mass. However, I have definitely noticed that I have been gaining fat around my lower abdomen and that Im starting to get love handles.

Should I immediately change my diet, or carry on the same? I have noticed all my lifts have been going up and I feel great in the gym.
I would also like to mention that I'm currently not doing any cardio.

Any feedback would be great. I don't have anyone to go to for help.

Thank you

You over eating a bit but it's ok since you train hard and want to gain. Add cardio in the form of HIIT. No more than 15-20 min few times a week.
Keep food intake the same. Later let us know how this goes and I'll suggest other changes.
You doing good!

 

[Philshred]

Alright thank you,

Ill do my research on HIIT and will keep you guys posted

 

[silenteuphor]

I have been reading everyone's comments and they are all great advice. I guess one thing you also need to ask yourself is, yes, you want to be big but how do I want to look? What I mean is, these huge caloric diets pack the meat on your body but not in the form of pure muscle. That's why you're losing your abs and getting the love handles as you put it. Did you enjoy having the abs? Then you need to balance this a little and lay off some of the calories. Vassille made a great point that some people try to keep the heavy caloric intake by tweaking the macro ratio but you can end up getting sick or slowing any gains. I will use myself as an example, I am 6ft and 215lbs. My muscle build is round. Meaning, I have some bulk, but I am definitely not cut and sharp and have muscle on muscle sort of look. Many reasons for this, one is BF% of course and another is simply muscle development (I have years to go of hard work before I look like some of these guys on here who have lifted for over 10+ yrs). I for one (at my age and point in my life) am trying to take the muscles I have and cut them more.
My point is to ask yourself what you want to look like now -- incredible Hulk beastmode, then you're going to put on some fat with a high calorie diet, but if you still want to keep your abs, see some more definition but still build bulk, you will need to tweak the calorie amount (I still like the 30/30/40 ratio).
Just my 2cents. 3yrs of nutrition study before going into IT (ha ha, needed to make some real money and I had the ability in tech).

Alright thank you,

Ill do my research on HIIT and will keep you guys posted

 

[Philshred]

I have been reading everyone's comments and they are all great advice. I guess one thing you also need to ask yourself is, yes, you want to be big but how do I want to look? What I mean is, these huge caloric diets pack the meat on your body but not in the form of pure muscle. That's why you're losing your abs and getting the love handles as you put it. Did you enjoy having the abs? Then you need to balance this a little and lay off some of the calories. Vassille made a great point that some people try to keep the heavy caloric intake by tweaking the macro ratio but you can end up getting sick or slowing any gains. I will use myself as an example, I am 6ft and 215lbs. My muscle build is round. Meaning, I have some bulk, but I am definitely not cut and sharp and have muscle on muscle sort of look. Many reasons for this, one is BF% of course and another is simply muscle development (I have years to go of hard work before I look like some of these guys on here who have lifted for over 10+ yrs). I for one (at my age and point in my life) am trying to take the muscles I have and cut them more.
My point is to ask yourself what you want to look like now -- incredible Hulk beastmode, then you're going to put on some fat with a high calorie diet, but if you still want to keep your abs, see some more definition but still build bulk, you will need to tweak the calorie amount (I still like the 30/30/40 ratio).
Just my 2cents. 3yrs of nutrition study before going into IT (ha ha, needed to make some real money and I had the ability in tech).

Thanks for your 2cents. My goal is to gain a lot of muscle mass so I thought that I would start bulking up until spring. Obviously I know that I will need many more years to achieve my desired physique. From what Iv'e been reading the best way to gain size is to bulk and to cut afterwards. Obviously I do not enjoy the love handles however it is only temporary and Iv'e always been interested in being fat and having to cut down since I have always been low bf and would like to have first hand knowledge on the process. I guess I could say I was influenced by a babyslayer aka geoleeman type of bulk then cut. If you guys think I'm heading in the wrong path please let me know.

Thank you

 

[John Smeton]

for your height at 6ft8 inches your not that big in relation to muscle

I think a 6ft2 guy is equal to 220lbs and a 6ft5 guy 250 lbs from pretty good muscle mass per inch. It was an old chart steve Reeves made up

I can tell you from experiences getting up to over 15 % bodyfat is not the way to go, it takes so much longer to get it off. Stay lean and take your time adding muscle, it takes time and learning

 

[Philshred]

for your height at 6ft8 inches your not that big in relation to muscle

I think a 6ft2 guy is equal to 220lbs and a 6ft5 guy 250 lbs from pretty good muscle mass per inch. It was an old chart steve Reeves made up

I can tell you from experiences getting up to over 15 % bodyfat is not the way to go, it takes so much longer to get it off. Stay lean and take your time adding muscle, it takes time and learning

Yes I am aware that I am not big. That is actually what I am striving and working towards.

I will start implementing HIIT as stated earlier and if I see that I keep adding fat I will definitely re adjust my diet.

 

[Docmattic]

If your starting to get love handles, cut your calories back slightly and see if you still gain. Also, try eat the majority of your carbs before and after training. Its not about eating the most carbs, its about using them best.

 

[Philshred]

If your starting to get love handles, cut your calories back slightly and see if you still gain. Also, try eat the majority of your carbs before and after training. Its not about eating the most carbs, its about using them best.

Ill definitely start implementing taking my carbs before and after my training. Thank you!

 

[silenteuphor]

I agree with this. I was a skinny skinny dude in highschool (6ft and 150lbs). As I got older, I filled in, my metabolism slowed and I started putting on the weight. I was quite excited as I was so used to being skinny and super low body fat. But as the weight came on, next thing I knew I was 240lbs and I started to panic. I knew taking off the weight is so much harder, especially with getting older! Took a good while to knock off 30lbs of junk, then I started the weight lifting to build some muscle. I know everyone is different - I personally like a good balance between size and hard muscle, as opposed to a muscular looking chubby guy ha ha. But like I said, everyone is different and I appreciate all lifters' efforts no matter what.

for your height at 6ft8 inches your not that big in relation to muscle

I think a 6ft2 guy is equal to 220lbs and a 6ft5 guy 250 lbs from pretty good muscle mass per inch. It was an old chart steve Reeves made up

I can tell you from experiences getting up to over 15 % bodyfat is not the way to go, it takes so much longer to get it off. Stay lean and take your time adding muscle, it takes time and learning

 

[silenteuphor]

Dude, let me tell you, once you get get rolling and building size, a freaking 6'8" muscular dude will be awesome! Keep it up and post some pics along the way!

Yes I am aware that I am not big. That is actually what I am striving and working towards.

I will start implementing HIIT as stated earlier and if I see that I keep adding fat I will definitely re adjust my diet.

 

[silenteuphor]

As I told John, I remember being in that same mindset -- I was super skinny in highschool and would lift like a champ but never put on much mass, just a lot of tone. When I started putting on weight as I got a little older, I got sort of excited. It was such a change. Problem was I let it get the best of me and I got up to 240lbs at 6ft. I could see the double chin and all!! I panicked for a bit as I know it takes a lot of work to get it off!!

Thanks for your 2cents. My goal is to gain a lot of muscle mass so I thought that I would start bulking up until spring. Obviously I know that I will need many more years to achieve my desired physique. From what Iv'e been reading the best way to gain size is to bulk and to cut afterwards. Obviously I do not enjoy the love handles however it is only temporary and Iv'e always been interested in being fat and having to cut down since I have always been low bf and would like to have first hand knowledge on the process. I guess I could say I was influenced by a babyslayer aka geoleeman type of bulk then cut. If you guys think I'm heading in the wrong path please let me know.

Thank you

 

[Philshred]

Dude, let me tell you, once you get get rolling and building size, a freaking 6'8" muscular dude will be awesome! Keep it up and post some pics along the way!

Thank you very much for the words of encouragement! I already started adding in some HIIT today and am being more careful with the types of food I am eating. I will keep you guys updated on my progress and I am already proud of what I have accomplished and am excited to be on this body shaping journey.

To show you guys my progress here was me last December around 205lbs fairly cut

On this one I was around 228lbs and it was taken June the 18th

I am currently 240lbs and hopefully I'll be able to post more of some bodybuilding picture in the near future but hopefully you guys can still see some progress in the above pictures.
Thank you

 

[akoli]

This is just constructive criticism and not meant to bust your chops or anything. What you have described is a typical rookie sort of mistake to load up on carbs. You dont need to over load on carbs to grow. Carbs will only give you energy but fat gives you energy and the basis of pumping out a boat load of hormons. You want hormons. However, if carbs are used in conjunction with plenty of fat and adequate protein actually we are more insulin sensitive, which is what you want.
Im glad you made all these gains and if you want to make more gains try to understand this approach. As far as weight gain, I went from 165 to 270 at one point before I decided my health is more important then being that heavy

dont worry im hard to offend. ive gone as high as 207 myself and believe me i knw how to make gains if i want to and it all depends on my consistency, i dont believe he has to overload on carbs just believe his diet is lacking some carbs and especially for breakfast, everyone is different and i dont see how adding complex carbs to your diet when bulking can be a rookie mistake but thanks for the input. appreciate the comments, cuz im always willing to learn, just speaking from my experience and from how ive helped a few friends put on quality mass. Take it how you like, after all its....

"just one mans' opinion"

 

[vassille]

dont worry im hard to offend. ive gone as high as 207 myself and believe me i knw how to make gains if i want to and it all depends on my consistency, i dont believe he has to overload on carbs just believe his diet is lacking some carbs and especially for breakfast, everyone is different and i dont see how adding complex carbs to your diet when bulking can be a rookie mistake but thanks for the input. appreciate the comments, cuz im always willing to learn, just speaking from my experience and from how ive helped a few friends put on quality mass. Take it how you like, after all its....

"just one mans' opinion"

I dont think eating more carbs will be of any benefit to him as he already is puting on some fat. You dont build muscle by increasing carbs...that's the rookie mistake I was talking about. Carbs are an energy source nothing more nothing less. You eat more carbs then the body needs to burn daily you will put on fat not muscle. Is very simple.
Now let me ask you a question, why are you insisting of him eating carbs in the morning? What's the purpose?
Just curious

 

[Celorza]

I dont think eating more carbs will be of any benefit to him as he already is puting on some fat. You dont build muscle by increasing carbs...that's the rookie mistake I was talking about. Carbs are an energy source nothing more nothing less. You eat more carbs then the body needs to burn daily you will put on fat not muscle. Is very simple.
Now let me ask you a question, why are you insisting of him eating carbs in the morning? What's the purpose?
Just curious

Sort of right, sort of wrong here Vassille, I do like some things you said here though. Now lets see...Carbs , yes they are non-essential and they are merely a source of energy, but also of Glycogen which (i know its for energy but also...) takes care of muscle fullness and providing more weight and thus more leverage to pull/push heavier weight. Carbs are not a rookie mistake to add, in fact they are what you ahve to add.

Essential macronutrient levels are:
1g of protein per lb of bw.
.5g of fat per lb of bw.

Body needs these at those levels, you can have them higher, but never lower. Now as far as carbs turning to fat, he merely needs to adjust the amount of carbs he is ingesting according to his daily TDEE (total day energy expenditure) but in fact, going above the above-mentioned levels does NOTHING unless you were on AAS/PH/DS which he is not. What I do like is the way you point out is why the hell does he tell him he needs carbs in the AM? It's been proven it is far better to consume them POST WORKOUT and later in the day...preferably at night, it could be healthier in the long run and it does have leaning effects on the body.

 

[vassille]

Sort of right, sort of wrong here Vassille, I do like some things you said here though. Now lets see...Carbs , yes they are non-essential and they are merely a source of energy, but also of Glycogen which (i know its for energy but also...) takes care of muscle fullness and providing more weight and thus more leverage to pull/push heavier weight. Carbs are not a rookie mistake to add, in fact they are what you ahve to add.

Essential macronutrient levels are:
1g of protein per lb of bw.
.5g of fat per lb of bw.

Body needs these at those levels, you can have them higher, but never lower. Now as far as carbs turning to fat, he merely needs to adjust the amount of carbs he is ingesting according to his daily TDEE (total day energy expenditure) but in fact, going above the above-mentioned levels does NOTHING unless you were on AAS/PH/DS which he is not. What I do like is the way you point out is why the hell does he tell him he needs carbs in the AM? It's been proven it is far better to consume them POST WORKOUT and later in the day...preferably at night, it could be healthier in the long run and it does have leaning effects on the body.

I think they are a rookie mistake and believe me I've done it too. One needs far less carbs if your body runs on fat for energy. THe cells are more sensitive to carbs and fewer carbs will give you the same if not batter insulin response for the purpose of gaining weight if you so choose.
The one thing about fulness is that I have full muscle fulness at merely 50g of carbs a day. Basically I have a mild pump throughout the day. So this sort of puts your theory on the defense somewhat. Now, I know from experience that ppl do get nice pumps after working out on carbs, but they taper off. Mine does not. When I eat more fat I get bigger pumps and when I eat my cheat meal the pumps sometimes hurt they so intense.

The big issue at work here is the fatty acids IMO work better then glycogen. Glycogen if abused through high carb intake has a tendency to desentisize the cell receptor becuase of the repeat insulin spikes. That's how type 2 diabetes come to life. So, then the body increases insulin production which does more harm to your cells and body.
On the other hand fatty acids have no such barrier. Cells use them without any issues. So what you all been told not to eat fat is a pile of crap because humans have been around for 2 million years and grains have only been around for 10 thousand years...you do the math.
This is free advice if you interested in making gains in the gym, and im doing this simply as a giving back to the community much the same as some others have steered me in the right direction too. Without them I would still be wondering around being 200lbs which btw is nothing to be laughed at, but I wanted to take it further than that.
By no means you have to listen, but at least do your homework and think outside the box because I didnt put on 80lbs of muscle without a deep understanding of how the body works. I might not know everything but I know what works in the gym and kitchen and I owe a great deal of gratitude to some old timers who set me straight about many things gym related just wished I run into them earlier in my life.

 

[Celorza]

I think they are a rookie mistake and believe me I've done it too. One needs far less carbs if your body runs on fat for energy. THe cells are more sensitive to carbs and fewer carbs will give you the same if not batter insulin response for the purpose of gaining weight if you so choose.
The one thing about fulness is that I have full muscle fulness at merely 50g of carbs a day. Basically I have a mild pump throughout the day. So this sort of puts your theory on the defense somewhat. Now, I know from experience that ppl do get nice pumps after working out on carbs, but they taper off. Mine does not. When I eat more fat I get bigger pumps and when I eat my cheat meal the pumps sometimes hurt they so intense.

The big issue at work here is the fatty acids IMO work better then glycogen. Glycogen if abused through high carb intake has a tendency to desentisize the cell receptor becuase of the repeat insulin spikes. That's how type 2 diabetes come to life. So, then the body increases insulin production which does more harm to your cells and body.
On the other hand fatty acids have no such barrier. Cells use them without any issues. So what you all been told not to eat fat is a pile of crap because humans have been around for 2 million years and grains have only been around for 10 thousand years...you do the math.
This is free advice if you interested in making gains in the gym, and im doing this simply as a giving back to the community much the same as some others have steered me in the right direction too. Without them I would still be wondering around being 200lbs which btw is nothing to be laughed at, but I wanted to take it further than that.
By no means you have to listen, but at least do your homework and think outside the box because I didnt put on 80lbs of muscle without a deep understanding of how the body works. I might not know everything but I know what works in the gym and kitchen and I owe a great deal of gratitude to some old timers who set me straight about many things gym related just wished I run into them earlier in my life.

Lol you miss my point and I was borderline to negging you for the condescending tone haha. Lets see now, when did I say you cannot have HIGH FATS, I said that they should stay at a minimum level OR HIGHER. Meaning that protein and fat values have a limit in how much you should AT LEAST consume, yet there's no limit in consuming more.

I did mention that it is not necessarily a mistake to ingest more carbohydrates and I still am not wrong about it, it simply depends on the style of bulking you have. If you are the kind of person that enjoys insulin spikes and handles carbs well (meaning no GI issue or discomfort) by all means you can do the same amount of kCals you need to gain weight with the essential values of protein and fat and just adding carbs. In the end its a kCalorie game and you need a surplus to gain weight.

Now I do agree (and this is why I hated your condescending tone) that a high fat diet is maginificent, since I do go by this standard. But basically if you check again my post, I am not mistaken anyhow, since I did say that the essential values I mentioned are no more than MINIMUMS that should not be lowered, yet they can always be higher...so if your main kCaloric intake is from fats, you simply fill the rest of the gap with a tiny bit of carbs, and preferably fibrous carbs to help digestion. Again watch the condescending tone and check the content of a post before responding to it. You cannot say it is flat out a rookie mistake, for many people here are bigger than you, and leaner and they do Carb Back loading diets, or Intermittent Fasting High Carb diets...it all depends on your insulin sensitivity.

So now that you noticed I actually agree with a high fat diet, and wasn't wrong, and merely told yah you cannot say its just a rookie mistake, I propose we start over. Besides the point, I was merely supporting your point in the end, of no carbs in the AM , which IMO is flat out DETRIMENTAL. But that was a point being argued against akoli , not against me !

 

[vassille]

Lol you miss my point and I was borderline to negging you for the condescending tone haha. Lets see now, when did I say you cannot have HIGH FATS, I said that they should stay at a minimum level OR HIGHER. Meaning that protein and fat values have a limit in how much you should AT LEAST consume, yet there's no limit in consuming more.

I did mention that it is not necessarily a mistake to ingest more carbohydrates and I still am not wrong about it, it simply depends on the style of bulking you have. If you are the kind of person that enjoys insulin spikes and handles carbs well (meaning no GI issue or discomfort) by all means you can do the same amount of kCals you need to gain weight with the essential values of protein and fat and just adding carbs. In the end its a kCalorie game and you need a surplus to gain weight.

Now I do agree (and this is why I hated your condescending tone) that a high fat diet is maginificent, since I do go by this standard. But basically if you check again my post, I am not mistaken anyhow, since I did say that the essential values I mentioned are no more than MINIMUMS that should not be lowered, yet they can always be higher...so if your main kCaloric intake is from fats, you simply fill the rest of the gap with a tiny bit of carbs, and preferably fibrous carbs to help digestion. Again watch the condescending tone and check the content of a post before responding to it. You cannot say it is flat out a rookie mistake, for many people here are bigger than you, and leaner and they do Carb Back loading diets, or Intermittent Fasting High Carb diets...it all depends on your insulin sensitivity.

So now that you noticed I actually agree with a high fat diet, and wasn't wrong, and merely told yah you cannot say its just a rookie mistake, I propose we start over. Besides the point, I was merely supporting your point in the end, of no carbs in the AM , which IMO is flat out DETRIMENTAL. But that was a point being argued against akoli , not against me !

LOL, I didnt mean to sound condecending towards you my friend and I made more of a general statement in the post not geared towards you but to others in general. I think I may have had misread your post a bit and some of my point wasnt geared towards you but I wrote it in the same context which lead you to believe it was geared towars you. It's all good sometimes we misunderstand each other but I def wasnt busting your chops in this case. If I was I would tell you right now. Im the type of person that will call a spade a spade.
You seem an intelligent guy who did do your homework and has knowledge in the matter which is great so we can have conv about nutrition based on facts and personal experience. When we all learn new things everybody benefits. I think the point of all of us being here is to come up with some knowledge we can all use in our personal or even professional life.

My point in general is the fact that over time carbs eaten in a fair amount over a long life of a person will damage some of the sensitivity to the cells. It is something that may not happen in a year or two but after many years it will start to affect someone's health. After 20 years of BBing I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly about carbs. My statement althoug dry and to the point reflects sort of 20 years of carb intake and it's reprecussions from my experience. When I was talking about the rookie mistake Im actually trying to make the point for ppl not to over use carbs. I eat some carbs and im sure you do too but over eating them is what's the problem and/or eating them at wrong times. Hopefully I made my point a bit more clear now.

 

[Celorza]

LOL, I didnt mean to sound condecending towards you my friend and I made more of a general statement in the post not geared towards you but to others in general. I think I may have had misread your post a bit and some of my point wasnt geared towards you but I wrote it in the same context which lead you to believe it was geared towars you. It's all good sometimes we misunderstand each other but I def wasnt busting your chops in this case. If I was I would tell you right now. Im the type of person that will call a spade a spade.
You seem an intelligent guy who did do your homework and has knowledge in the matter which is great so we can have conv about nutrition based on facts and personal experience. When we all learn new things everybody benefits. I think the point of all of us being here is to come up with some knowledge we can all use in our personal or even professional life.

My point in general is the fact that over time carbs eaten in a fair amount over a long life of a person will damage some of the sensitivity to the cells. It is something that may not happen in a year or two but after many years it will start to affect someone's health. After 20 years of BBing I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly about carbs. My statement althoug dry and to the point reflects sort of 20 years of carb intake and it's reprecussions from my experience. When I was talking about the rookie mistake Im actually trying to make the point for ppl not to over use carbs. I eat some carbs and im sure you do too but over eating them is what's the problem and/or eating them at wrong times. Hopefully I made my point a bit more clear now.

Completely agree and support that right there, excess will NOT be good and it will NOT lead to extra muscle mass gains. Good to see at least some of my research does reflect with real anecdotal experience with someone with that many years in the sport.

Good to know it was merely a misunderstanding , and great way to put all this! Thanks a lot.

 

[vassille]

Completely agree and support that right there, excess will NOT be good and it will NOT lead to extra muscle mass gains. Good to see at least some of my research does reflect with real anecdotal experience with someone with that many years in the sport.

Good to know it was merely a misunderstanding , and great way to put all this! Thanks a lot.

NP Def.
That statement is hiting the nail right on!

 

[Philshred]

Lots of great info on here, thanks guys! For some reason I am not getting any notifications from posts in my thread, does anyone know whatsup? Also it would be really appreciated if you guys had any books to recommend?
Thx again