LOW CARB BULKING THREAD
- Thread starter bboyflash
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bboyflash
Member
All I did was stuck to the rules of a ckd, less that 30gs during the week then pretty much w.e. on Refeeds, 1st week I did 1 day refeed, the other weeks I refed during the weekend, i found more water and fat came along for the ride for 2 day Refeeds...also like to mention that I'm meso endo and ate a lot of cheese which caused a lot of water retension...
Celorza
Well-known member
Ok but what about fats? How many grams of Fats and Grams of Protein per LBs or BW? Or what are the ratios?
Celorza
Well-known member
That IS a lot of fats hehe, just one question to sum it all up...Do you know if its not unhealthy to eat that much fat daily? I mean Idk so I ask...any side effects on health? Like HBP? or Cholesterol Issues?
bboyflash
Member
I didn't get a blood panel, however I did make sure lil less than half of the fat consumed was saturated the rest was from other sources...I think it COULD be healthy if you have a lil bit of every thing....just my opinion, might have to ask someone who has been low carbing it for awhile...
vassille
Active member
Dont refeed for 2 days one is enough if you do it right.
Medical420
Member
Did it last year because I am Paleo, I was pessimistic. I gained 20lbs @8%BF in 14 weeks, got injured, took 3 months off. Starting back up now. I am doing a bunch of herbal cleansing that will run for another 2 weeks or so.
I run 65-70fat 25-30 protein. I eat a lot of veg and nuts, and a moderate amount of berries.
I tracked it before on paper. I am tracking now with my iPhone and iPad app MYFITNESSPRO (free plug) It's free and has a huge food data base. Awesome for tracking calories and more. Champ!
Low carb Great way to bulk and stay lean as hell IMO
M420
I run 65-70fat 25-30 protein. I eat a lot of veg and nuts, and a moderate amount of berries.
I tracked it before on paper. I am tracking now with my iPhone and iPad app MYFITNESSPRO (free plug) It's free and has a huge food data base. Awesome for tracking calories and more. Champ!
Low carb Great way to bulk and stay lean as hell IMO
M420
Medical420
Member
I was getting biweekly blood analysis during my last session. BP, HR, and Cholestersl where all normal. That being said, I Also use 1/2 to 1 cup no hydro no trans margerine in my cooking, and I was normal. I don't eat any grains, dairy(minus margerine) or sugars (non natural). This could be why I can eat high fat!?
vassille
Active member
yeap. Im not crazy about margerine I actually use butter
Taking the insulin spikes out makes all the diference. Once your body uses fat for fuel there is little need for grains and sugars.
Many problems come up when ppl eat high carb diet then they add fat on top. THe truth is high carb diet causes most of the problems not the fat.
Jiigzz
Legend
I suppose then Im a freak of nature? Eating 600-800g of carbs per day and im at 10-11%BF (Bod Pod last week showed 11%). That article above is nonsense, most athletes (Olympic, soccer, football etc) have very high carb inatkes yet have little fat storage. Why is that?
Firstly, ALL macro nutrients have the capacity to be stored as fat; even protein :O when eaten in excess. Yes, In excess. That article oversimplifies a VERY complex system in a way that suits the author and the point he is trying to make; that makes his viewpoint very biased.
Let me explain something; Insulin does indeed move excess blood glucose (often caused by high GI sugars entering bloodstream ) into muscle cells, that is its job. To provide the working muscles with more fuel while maintaining homeostatis conditions in the blood.
The problem that you guys have right now is the fact that your umbrella terming Carbohydrates as being evil; yet carbohydrates have very differing structures based on how many monosaccarides are bound together. So why avoid low GI foods that have a little insulin response? Why avoid those foods? When you hear the term 'fat', you know to avoid trans fatty acids, limit saturated fat etc., yet when it comes to carbohydrates you do not seperate the different structures, you just group them together; why not do the same for fats? Why do fats get the benefit or molecule segregation whereas carbohydrates do not?
Food for thought.
Firstly, ALL macro nutrients have the capacity to be stored as fat; even protein :O when eaten in excess. Yes, In excess. That article oversimplifies a VERY complex system in a way that suits the author and the point he is trying to make; that makes his viewpoint very biased.
Let me explain something; Insulin does indeed move excess blood glucose (often caused by high GI sugars entering bloodstream ) into muscle cells, that is its job. To provide the working muscles with more fuel while maintaining homeostatis conditions in the blood.
The problem that you guys have right now is the fact that your umbrella terming Carbohydrates as being evil; yet carbohydrates have very differing structures based on how many monosaccarides are bound together. So why avoid low GI foods that have a little insulin response? Why avoid those foods? When you hear the term 'fat', you know to avoid trans fatty acids, limit saturated fat etc., yet when it comes to carbohydrates you do not seperate the different structures, you just group them together; why not do the same for fats? Why do fats get the benefit or molecule segregation whereas carbohydrates do not?
Food for thought.
Mainevant
Member
I put this article to see the point of view of different people.
For me carbs aint important. And I agree that carbs make us fat..Not fats.
Humans need protein and fats to survive.
They don't need carbs. It's just a prefer source of energy for our organism.
Saturated fats ain't that bad for us like most people say. Used in moderation are also beneficial.
The least thing- everyone is different.. Someone can respond very good on high levels of carbs and someone just can't.
For me carbs aint important. And I agree that carbs make us fat..Not fats.
Humans need protein and fats to survive.
They don't need carbs. It's just a prefer source of energy for our organism.
Saturated fats ain't that bad for us like most people say. Used in moderation are also beneficial.
The least thing- everyone is different.. Someone can respond very good on high levels of carbs and someone just can't.
Medical420
Member
Jiigzz said:
I umbrella wheat and refined/artificial sugar. I am not sure which carbs you are defending, but it makes a difference in a carb debate. Check out the book "Wheat Belly". This book WILL change your opinion, minor or major it'll change. I have my own theory on grains. I blame parasites and fungus internally, caused by the push of antibiotics in the late 80's to now for the majority of my health problems.
History has told us we lived on what we could hunt or gather. Not process. Grain is a processed food. Other carbs like rice you can pick and boil , and has a extremely low gluten protein content. Japanese of okanawa live 115y avg on meats, fish, poultry, lg rices, veg(tons), fruits and nuts. They are recognized as the healthiest people on the planet.
As I posted in another thread, we all know People that have lived long healthy lives with grains and sugars. That said if you can handle them, eatem. If you can't, don't. If you don't want to, don't!
vassille
Active member
I see you point and here is the problem:
1. When you eat carbs they all end up as sugar at the end of the day. If you eat a bowl of rice or 5 table spoons of sugar end result is still glucose. THe difference is how quick it breaks down.
2. With fat it breaks down into ketones and fatty acids. Fatty acids to fuel the muscle and ketones to fuel the brain. THere isnt that im aware of quick acting fats or slow acting fats, all break down basically at the same rate. As far as trans fats, they are man made and out bodies dont know what to do with them because they are not natural. Samething goes for table sugar.
If you talk to anyone who follow a fat/protein diet the concensus is unanymous: moods are constant, hunger is almost non-existant, there are no ups and downs like with carbs. Reason?..fat breaks slow and consistant providing the body with constant energy.
Here is the catch, if you look at carbs, most carbs in nature come with fiber attached to it. Coincidence?..no. It slows down absorption. So if you eat a bowl of cherries, or other fruits they all have fiber to slow down digestion and make you full so you dont eat 600-800g of carbs a day. It will bloat you like crazy. With the advent of man made grains, most of those grains are low in fiber and high in sugar content. As a result our bodies have to work harder and outside their comfort to deal with that.
The diets of the past ancestors contained animal fat, animal protein, fish, nuts, fruits, vegetables and the occaional root plants vegetables. None of these have a high sugar content except for the fruits which had a built in fiber down regulator so you dont eat a lot of it. So, you can see why eating a high carb diet will not be ideal for anybody because as a result of adaptation we really not build for it. Carbs were an additional food to our ancestors diets not the main diet.
In todays world, carbs are the main diet and the rest is an addition which out bodies are not meant to handle, period!
now the reason im stressing this is very simple, I have experienced high carbs diet first hand. I used to eat high carbs for years to build my body (so I thought I was doing the right thing)..wrong. I started to develop type 2 diabetes. What happened my cells started to not respond to my over production of insulin due to the fact that I was eating too many carbs much like you do. In addition my digestive track was a mess too as a result. That was a wake up call and moment of truth which I realized that going on like this would destroy my health.
Since I switched my diet I have zero problems with my blood sugar. I make better gains and mentain all the muscle i have very easy in single digits body fat with very little cardio BTW.
So there you have it. I have shown you a real life explample of carbs gone wrong. I guess you can take your chances with a high carb diet and look diabetes in the face at some point or do some soul searching and see if this is what you want to keep doing. Choice is yours but the odds are against you if you keep eating that many carbs for years to come
B5150
Legend
Because they are endurance sport athletes who train for many many more hours a day than the 45 to 90 mins most do in the gym. They need the glycogen fuel and use it, where as, generally, bodybuilders don't
Medical420
Member
I see you point and here is the problem:
1. When you eat carbs they all end up as sugar at the end of the day. If you eat a bowl of rice or 5 table spoons of sugar end result is still glucose. THe difference is how quick it breaks down.
2. With fat it breaks down into ketones and fatty acids. Fatty acids to fuel the muscle and ketones to fuel the brain. THere isnt that im aware of quick acting fats or slow acting fats, all break down basically at the same rate. As far as trans fats, they are man made and out bodies dont know what to do with them because they are not natural. Samething goes for table sugar.
If you talk to anyone who follow a fat/protein diet the concensus is unanymous: moods are constant, hunger is almost non-existant, there are no ups and downs like with carbs. Reason?..fat breaks slow and consistant providing the body with constant energy.
Here is the catch, if you look at carbs, most carbs in nature come with fiber attached to it. Coincidence?..no. It slows down absorption. So if you eat a bowl of cherries, or other fruits they all have fiber to slow down digestion and make you full so you dont eat 600-800g of carbs a day. It will bloat you like crazy. With the advent of man made grains, most of those grains are low in fiber and high in sugar content. As a result our bodies have to work harder and outside their comfort to deal with that.
The diets of the past ancestors contained animal fat, animal protein, fish, nuts, fruits, vegetables and the occaional root plants vegetables. None of these have a high sugar content except for the fruits which had a built in fiber down regulator so you dont eat a lot of it. So, you can see why eating a high carb diet will not be ideal for anybody because as a result of adaptation we really not build for it. Carbs were an additional food to our ancestors diets not the main diet.
In todays world, carbs are the main diet and the rest is an addition which out bodies are not meant to handle, period!
now the reason im stressing this is very simple, I have experienced high carbs diet first hand. I used to eat high carbs for years to build my body (so I though I was doing the right thing)..wrong. I started to develop type 2 diabetes. What happened my cells started to not respond to my over production of insulin due to the fact that I was eating too many carbs much like you do. In addition my digestive track was a mess too as a result. That was a wake up call and moment of truth which I realized that going on like this would destroy my health.
Since I switched my diet I have zero problems with my blood sugar. I make better gains and mentain all the muscle i have very easy in single digits body fat with very little cardio BTW.
So there you have it. I have shown you a real life explample of carbs gone wrong. I guess you can take your chances with a high carb diet and look diabetes in the face at some point or do some soul searching and see if this is what you want to keep doing. Choice is yours but the odds are against you if you keep eating that many carbs for years to come
This is good. I will argue that rice and sugar are similar. Wheat grains and sugars are the same however. My argurment comes from my intestinal track. I could not ever eat sugar or wheat grain without reaction. I can eat rice all day long with no reaction. Now my reactions come from insulin converting carbohydrates including all wheat grain. Buckwheat and rice was no problem. Fruit sugar had Zero effect, as you stated, high fiber and also fructose.
vassille
Active member
I have had similar experiences with grains as well. What I found alarming is how much inflamation some of these foods were causing creating digestive problems.
A good example, I was eating a good 3500-4000cal a day at one point on a high carb diet.
Since then I dont think I went past 3000cal a day.
That clearly shows how much food I was not digesting and was going throgh me without ever being absorbed!
BTW thanks for the rep!
Medical420
Member
Think of it more as, what was eating the grains after you ate them that causes the digestional problems and the reason foods are not being fully abosrbed, and for me the organ damage as well. If your intestinal track is out of balance, your PH levels change, causing a change in your Hydrocloric acid, resulting in degrees of heartburn, reflux, ulcers etc.
A 100% healthy human being free from third party organisms can eat, digest, use and expell grains perfectly fine. There are studies to prove it. I believe if you come from the 80's and beyond you have some sort of problem in your intestine. Unless you and your family where free from antibiotics and some pain medication through conception and birth. The facts are out the 1 in 5 has an autoimmune (last years study). I believe 1 in 3 has either a bacterial, fungal, parasitic or microbial inside them. We all know antibiotics kill Good Flora(intestinal bacteria). I myself was on countless antibiotics as a kid ('82 baby).
Here is what I Know
If you have bacteria loss in your intestines, other things that are natural in our digestive system can over populate. Moose over populating because of lack of wolves for example. (Canadian eh). So our natural fungus (we all have candida, just minor it assist in other digestive properties) grows out of control. Causing various conditions (can't post links, wtf)
AND or you can have one of the many parasites out there, or even the dreaded Worms. (can't post links...wtf)
And, if you have hit a cycle, You may have an intestinal problem. Juice feeds and strengthens them just as much us. Anger comes from them, and their toxins (liver is know as the "seat of anger") juice, toxins and the liver = RoidRage. (unconfirmed my guestimation). I have buddy's that get rage and others that become more Zen. I have my theory!
All of these can change a person inside and out. Certain foods feed them, causing toxic excrement, then our livers and kidneys try to filter them and get over run causing problems (again, my case )
A simple solution if you have absorption problems is check out www renewlife dotcom. 100% herbal, no BS. Check out, ParaGone, ParaZyme, CandiGone, CandiZyme, SmartCleanse, liver cleanse (best product for liver I **** you not. I HAD a critical liver, throw up in the earlymorning due to lack of food)). Ultimate 50billion culture Flora! Too many to list.
Lastly I only share this because I think everyone out there needs to know. Most Practitioners do not recognize. If you have an open minded doctor(the are out there), ask. If they say try "prescription", just leave and go to your local NUTShop and give this **** a go. These cleanses work best on LOW CARB diets too.
Feel free to ask Anything regarding the above. I am no Doctor. This is all reading, self study and trial and error to get over this shiz
Jiigzz
Legend
I see you point and here is the problem:
1. When you eat carbs they all end up as sugar at the end of the day. If you eat a bowl of rice or 5 table spoons of sugar end result is still glucose. THe difference is how quick it breaks down.
2. With fat it breaks down into ketones and fatty acids. Fatty acids to fuel the muscle and ketones to fuel the brain. THere isnt that im aware of quick acting fats or slow acting fats, all break down basically at the same rate. As far as trans fats, they are man made and out bodies dont know what to do with them because they are not natural. Samething goes for table sugar.
If you talk to anyone who follow a fat/protein diet the concensus is unanymous: moods are constant, hunger is almost non-existant, there are no ups and downs like with carbs. Reason?..fat breaks slow and consistant providing the body with constant energy.
Here is the catch, if you look at carbs, most carbs in nature come with fiber attached to it. Coincidence?..no. It slows down absorption. So if you eat a bowl of cherries, or other fruits they all have fiber to slow down digestion and make you full so you dont eat 600-800g of carbs a day. It will bloat you like crazy. With the advent of man made grains, most of those grains are low in fiber and high in sugar content. As a result our bodies have to work harder and outside their comfort to deal with that.
The diets of the past ancestors contained animal fat, animal protein, fish, nuts, fruits, vegetables and the occaional root plants vegetables. None of these have a high sugar content except for the fruits which had a built in fiber down regulator so you dont eat a lot of it. So, you can see why eating a high carb diet will not be ideal for anybody because as a result of adaptation we really not build for it. Carbs were an additional food to our ancestors diets not the main diet.
In todays world, carbs are the main diet and the rest is an addition which out bodies are not meant to handle, period!
now the reason im stressing this is very simple, I have experienced high carbs diet first hand. I used to eat high carbs for years to build my body (so I thought I was doing the right thing)..wrong. I started to develop type 2 diabetes. What happened my cells started to not respond to my over production of insulin due to the fact that I was eating too many carbs much like you do. In addition my digestive track was a mess too as a result. That was a wake up call and moment of truth which I realized that going on like this would destroy my health.
Since I switched my diet I have zero problems with my blood sugar. I make better gains and mentain all the muscle i have very easy in single digits body fat with very little cardio BTW.
So there you have it. I have shown you a real life explample of carbs gone wrong. I guess you can take your chances with a high carb diet and look diabetes in the face at some point or do some soul searching and see if this is what you want to keep doing. Choice is yours but the odds are against you if you keep eating that many carbs for years to come
I like this, and very well worded.
And sorry to hear about the type two diabetes. I think you may well be the first person to convince me that perhaps I should try consuming less carbs and see if it has an overall negitive or postive effect on both body composition and training capacity; thnaks for that
That is true, and typically I fall under this category to a degree; which is why I have such a strong opinion on the topic area. Ill give the low carb thing a run for the next 3 months and note down how I respond to it. Should be an interesting research and log opportunity for me.
Celorza
Well-known member
I like this, and very well worded.
And sorry to hear about the type two diabetes. I think you may well be the first person to convince me that perhaps I should try consuming less carbs and see if it has an overall negitive or postive effect on both body composition and training capacity; thnaks for that
That is true, and typically I fall under this category to a degree; which is why I have such a strong opinion on the topic area. Ill give the low carb thing a run for the next 3 months and note down how I respond to it. Should be an interesting research and log opportunity for me.
If bulking, don't be surprised you end up eating over 250g of fat. I am really thinking about trying this, paired up with LeanGains and once a week refeeds, or twice a week small carb ups, seems like a good way to try it out.
Jiigzz
Legend
Yeah I know; got to compensate for the calories somehow. I'll prob just do it the recomp way and carb up on aerobic training days and low carb on weight days and see how that works. Because I tend to run for 10-15km i'll need the glycogen on those days to keep me going haha.
vassille
Active member
I've been looking into some digestive enzyme, did you take any?
I def agree that you have to keep your body in a balance in order to feel 100%. The more I've researched I realized that the digestive system is extremely important and the cause of many of my issues.
Same here been doing trial and error for sometimes. THe more I research the more ppl I run into with similar problems it seems.
vassille
Active member
I like this, and very well worded.
And sorry to hear about the type two diabetes. I think you may well be the first person to convince me that perhaps I should try consuming less carbs and see if it has an overall negitive or postive effect on both body composition and training capacity; thnaks for that
That is true, and typically I fall under this category to a degree; which is why I have such a strong opinion on the topic area. Ill give the low carb thing a run for the next 3 months and note down how I respond to it. Should be an interesting research and log opportunity for me.
Thanks I appreciate it!
You welcome and def give it a try. Im glad im making you think Im dead serious about the reprecussions of over using insulin. Find your own balance with this diet, based on your energy requirements. It's not even a diet but more of a lifestyle. It took me sometime to fully get my body to run on fat as fuel maybe 2 months or so if I remember right. Once the body wasnt rusty anymore I could use fatty acids and ketones rather easily now. The point is to have fat and protein as main fuel source and carbs the addition. You might have to eat more fruit to store more glucose if you run that much. Build it up slowly so your body will get used to it. Now I can actually run by just eating fat. It's very interesting how my body adjusted.
Let me know how this works for you, especially with the recomp.
vassille
Active member
Yes there are days I do eat 250g of fat or even more. I dont think I ever went passed 300 though. My refeeds or what I call it just a splurge is one big ass meal where I eat anything I please.
I normally eat 1lb burger with all the trimmings, fries, and a sugar cone ice cream. I prob put down about 2000cal in one meal
THen I pass out for few hours.
I do think carbs up are good once or twice a week for one meal each. Start with once a week and work from there.
Jiigzz
Legend
Yeah, its sort of one of those things that has kind of been hammered into my way of thinking since I started university and often I cringe at the idea of low carb diets, but after your response im willing to give it a try for 3-6months and if it works for me, ill continue it.
Ill keep you updated on how it goes over the next few months
Medical420
Member
vassille said:
I take renewlife 50 billion culture flora before bed 2hr empty. Apple cider vinegar (I take pills now, unrefined) before every meal will help the good cultures survive and grow in time. Also does a ton more good, including absorption.
It's amazing how many people are doing what we are doing with fantastic results!
iPhone AM.com app
vassille
Active member
Cool thanks for the info!
vassille
Active member
I have been in your shoes, it takes a while to get your head around eating fat. it's not even that, just eat normal full fat foods first. You will be suprised at the results and it;s not what the common mentality dictates that fat makes you fat!
Since you have been eating so many carbs transition slowly from carbs to fat so your body gets use to it.
Funny story, now when i go to the store I actually look for fatier organic beef, organic chicken, heavy cream and dont even look at lean chicken breast anymore..lol
