Abs not showing?!

[Beach_Body]

Im 15 years old and i was currently over weight at 185 then went down to 146! I dont have much fat on me anymore but i can only see the outline of my abs:/ i workout 6 times a week with cardio everyday and i also play rugby! I eat really healthy so idk whats wrong maybe its just loose skin so any help/suggestions! Maybe bulk up abs idk? Thanks in advance!

 

[Krampus]

Visible abs is all about bf% excluding a rare few who have massive abs (See Konstantin Konstantinovs).

 

[Krampus]

Lower your calories, cut out processed foods and lift heavy.

 

[ka0tik]

What Krampus said... You did a great job dropping the weight. You just need to keep goin. These last few bf%'s are the hardest. Just a guess but your at prolly 15% and you want to get to 10 or below.

Keep up the good work and stick to a clean diet.

 

[Krampus]

Or become Konstantin Konstantinovs at around 12% the worlds biggest six pack.

What Krampus said... You did a great job dropping the weight. You just need to keep goin. These last few bf%'s are the hardest. Just a guess but your at prolly 15% and you want to get to 10 or below.

Keep up the good work and stick to a clean diet.

 

[howwedo107]

You may need to add more mass to your abs and core...great job with losing weight but you need to grow some hearty muscle

 

[toddgranit]

You may need to add more mass to your abs and core...great job with losing weight but you need to grow some hearty muscle

I agree, fantastic job on the weight loss, now you should concentrate on lifting heavy, and putting on some lean mass, and your definition will really start to show.
Good luck
Peace

 

[Beach_Body]

Thanks ill continue to lift!

 

[Beach_Body]

What Krampus said... You did a great job dropping the weight. You just need to keep goin. These last few bf%'s are the hardest. Just a guess but your at prolly 15% and you want to get to 10 or below.

Keep up the good work and stick to a clean diet.

I dont think im 15% because i can barely pull any skin anywhere except for at my belly!

 

[Beach_Body]

Visible abs is all about bf% excluding a rare few who have massive abs (See Konstantin Konstantinovs).

Saw his abs i dont think they look too good but thats sick lol! But id rather not say that to him!

 

[Celorza]

You need to grow some abs to show some abs !

That being said, you dropped weight, not fat. Difference is, you lost a lot of poundage which could have been muscle mass and water too, to get ABS you have to have BUILT them first, and then burned the fat around them with proper dieting, exercising and sleep. Post up your diet if you want, I could give yah some advise for you to bulk up to a normal weight for your size and then you can cut out the fat to have some abs.

 

[MM11]

Lean bulk (add muscle with very little fat)

Or cut. Your small and cutting is easier with more muscle mass. Your about 15% bf. That is in no way a bad number. Way better than an average person!

Congrats on the weight loss. I play rugby as well. Hit me up with any questions.

 

[Beach_Body]

Alright ill prob lean bulk! About how many calories should i eat a day and im guessing most would be protein and carbs then vegetables and grains?

 

[Celorza]

Alright ill prob lean bulk! About how many calories should i eat a day and im guessing most would be protein and carbs then vegetables and grains?

Calculate TDEE and adjust to this ratios:

Essential Macronutrients:

.45 to .5 grams of fats per pound of body weight.

1 to 1.25 grams of protein per pounds of body weight (IMO no more than 1 is needed)

The rest of your kCalories come from Carb sources.

Let me explain...Your fats+protein will give you a number of kCalories , you subtract this to your TDEE and then divide it by 4. This will be your Maintenance level. For example at your stats:

Around a TDEE estimate of 2700 so:

150g protein
70-75g fat
360g~ of carbs

That is only to mantain. (Remember 1g of prot=4 kCals and 1 gram of carbs also=4 kCals , 1g of fat is 9 kCals)

Now if you wanna put on weight I would suggest increasing kCals every 2 weeks or so by about 250-500 kCals in the manner of carbohydrates mainly. So you would be looking at:

3200 kCals (for Workout days, on Rest days I would suggest lowering to just 2800~kCals , again from carbs)

150g prot
70g fat
500g~ carbs


Complex carbs, whole food sources , don't take supplements...you are too young.

 

[Beach_Body]

Thanks alot bro! That really helped and ill start doing that! What about whey shakes because ive been using those alot?

 

[Celorza]

Thanks alot bro! That really helped and ill start doing that! What about whey shakes because ive been using those alot?

Not better than a steak or egg whites...or tuna...or actual food. If your parents condone it fine, I don't see the need, but I know its just whey so nothing wrong either.

 

[Beach_Body]

Alright its not much throught it only 25g per scoop but i also eat alot of chicken and eggs!

 

[Celorza]

Alright its not much throught it only 25g per scoop but i also eat alot of chicken and eggs!

Steak, ground beef/turkey, milk, cottage cheese, greek yogurt, turkey. Those are good friends too.

 

[Beach_Body]

Lol we meet everyday! ?

 

[Celorza]

Lol we meet everyday! ?

excellent!

 

[Beach_Body]

Yep so would this lean bulk be good to drop body fat or should i just cut? I was told that im around 15% but i have no accurate stats an i guess i want to be at around 10%

 

[Celorza]

Yep so would this lean bulk be good to drop body fat or should i just cut? I was told that im around 15% but i have no accurate stats an i guess i want to be at around 10%

Lean Bulks don't cut fat...they build muscle and ideally gain you NO fat. Trust me, at 10% with your weight and size you would look skinny rather than lean. Pack some muscle, your body will recomposition nicely along the way by being that young.

Google Starting Strength it is a training program for beginners. Or you can also google 5x5. I would recommend you start with SS anyways so you learn proper form and the basic compound movements.

 

[Beach_Body]

Alright so i should stay at 15%? An ive been doing p90x thats how i lost all the weight i had but i guess i should veer more towards heavy lifting?!

 

[Celorza]

Alright so i should stay at 15%? An ive been doing p90x thats how i lost all the weight i had but i guess i should veer more towards heavy lifting?!

Please do so...and no matter what...Stay away from CrossFit people...-This is just My personal opinion, I just think they only set you up for joint damage...and well many other bad consequences...

 

[Beach_Body]

Please do so...and no matter what...Stay away from CrossFit people...-This is just My personal opinion, I just think they only set you up for joint damage...and well many other bad consequences...

Alright ill stop that and start just plain lifting! Thanks again for all the help!

 

[Celorza]

Alright ill stop that and start just plain lifting! Thanks again for all the help!

And do cardio too.

 

[NYiron]

Alright so i should stay at 15%? An ive been doing p90x thats how i lost all the weight i had but i guess i should veer more towards heavy lifting?!

Find people you can trust and who have knowledge on the subject. Preferably this would be someone with an education in kinesiology, exercise physiology, etc. Then, ask them as many questions as they will possibly allow. Ask about everything but most importantly form, have yours critiqued and always be open to suggestions, with good reason. Soak it all up like a sponge, get some books on proven programs, read articles and studies. Take in as much knowledge as you possibly can. I will say this though and head this warning, there is a lot of bullsh*t out there. People will want you to do this and do that, thats why you need someone you can trust and if the information you are receiving isn't grounded in science it isn't worth a thing. And please do not listen to your buddies about "oh this supplement, oh this exercise" stick to the basics get your diet in check and work the old school time tested lifts they will never fail you.

 

[Beach_Body]

Yeah i do lot of cardio! Run/bike everyday and rugby practice for 2 1/2hrs every other day!

 

[Beach_Body]

Find people you can trust and who has knowledge on the subject. Preferably this would be someone with an education in kinesiology, exercise physiology, etc. Then, ask them as many questions as they will possibly allow. Ask about everything but most importantly form, have yours critiqued and always be open to suggestions, with good reason. Soak it all up like a sponge, get some books on proven programs, read articles and studies. Take in as much knowledge as you possibly can. I will say this though and head this warning, there is a lot of bullsh*t out there. People will want you to do this and do that, thats why you need someone you can trust and if the information you are receiving isn't grounded in science it is worth a thing. And please do not listen to your buddies about "oh this supplement, oh this exercise" stick to the basics get your diet in check and work the old school time tested lifts they will never fail you.

Seems legit thanks bro!

 

[NYiron]

Seems legit thanks bro!

No problem. Good luck, I envy you just starting out. Welcome to the iron lifestyle once its got you it never lets go. Enjoy the ride kid your in for quite an experience. Never lose sight of your goals no matter what happens, keep moving forward.

 

[Beach_Body]

No problem. Good luck, I envy you just starting out. Welcome to the iron lifestyle once its got you it never lets go. Enjoy the ride kid your in for quite an experience. Never lose sight of your goals no matter what happens, keep moving forward.

Thanks man and its true! Its something that you dont want to leave lol

 

[benmayro]

You got to build yourself up bud, you are young like me and we can gain muscle way quicker than. most people. Cel gave you some great advice with your diet so make sure not to brush off his advice because you will regret it. You should start a simple but effective workout progran 5x5 or 5/3/1 and make sure to research, learn and research some more. DO NOT GET CAUGHT UP DOING BEACH MUSCLES!! shredded abs on a skinny guy is like nice tits on a fat girl. Compound lifts are god, learn proper technique and dont go to heavy untill form is great! Supplements are useless and dumb without a good base, routine and diet. If you sleep big, eat big and lift big; your will be amaze at the results

 

[Jiigzz]

You got to build yourself up bud, you are young like me and we can gain muscle way quicker than. most people. Cel gave you some great advice with your diet so make sure not to brush off his advice because you will regret it. You should start a simple but effective workout progran 5x5 or 5/3/1 and make sure to research, learn and research some more. DO NOT GET CAUGHT UP DOING BEACH MUSCLES!! shredded abs on a skinny guy is like nice tits on a fat girl. Compound lifts are god, learn proper technique and dont go to heavy untill form is great! Supplements are useless and dumb without a good base, routine and diet. If you sleep big, eat big and lift big; your will be amaze at the results

I second this. Because I also see that underneath NYiron posted about who you should trust; and Cel is one of those people. That being said, BMR is only an estimate (and tbh calculator estimates are not accurate BMR calculations, because not all tissue is metabolically active; and especially if were are only estimating BF%). Its more of an RMR estimate , and also BMR doesnt include any exercise you do or the thermic effect of food, so be sure to add in the calories when you are exercising. BMR isnt your calorie maintainence, only what your body uses at rest to sustain life (metabolic things, heart rate, breathing, kidney function etc. etc.) so when you workout hard over this BMR, perhaps >1000kcals of extra work and you only eat at BMR levels, then you WILL drop weight without GAINING.

Estimate how much work your doing on top of BMR then add in +500kcals on top of this to bulk.

 

[MM11]

Heavy compound lifts. Oly lifts.

Don't avoid cross fit, don't get to sucked into it. Your not a body builder and a lot of crossfit will transfer to improved athletic performance.

I wouldn't worry about your bf. The fact that you lost that much off p90x means when you start really training you'll lean out and grow. Being young has it's perks.

Eat a lot of protein, I strongly recommend counting calories for a while. This requires weighing food... I can easily eye out 8oz of chicken, not guess. Because I used a food scale for years.

Rugby is a lot of running. Avoid dead lifts close to games or contact practices. Cleans will be your beat friend. Do them heavy. Your a back I'm guessing?

 

[Celorza]

I second this. Because I also see that underneath NYiron posted about who you should trust; and Cel is one of those people. That being said, BMR is only an estimate (and tbh calculator estimates are not accurate BMR calculations, because not all tissue is metabolically active; and especially if were are only estimating BF%). Its more of an RMR estimate , and also BMR doesnt include any exercise you do or the thermic effect of food, so be sure to add in the calories when you are exercising. BMR isnt your calorie maintainence, only what your body uses at rest to sustain life (metabolic things, heart rate, breathing, kidney function etc. etc.) so when you workout hard over this BMR, perhaps >1000kcals of extra work and you only eat at BMR levels, then you WILL drop weight without GAINING.

Estimate how much work your doing on top of BMR then add in +500kcals on top of this to bulk.

I don't get your post, I proposed him to work over his TDEE not BMR , which is still only an estimate of the energy needed to maintain, hence I added the info of creating a surplus with the ratios for the essential macro nutrients. Also mentioned he has to keep increasing kCalories and from where actually (carbs and to adjust prot and fat effectively for the new weights). Again since it is all an estimate he has to try it out and keep track to find his TDEE (maintenance level) accurately and this adjust the amount of carbs needed to create a surplus. Again, prot and fats are essentially weight dependent and cabs are dependent upon kCalories needed for a surplus or maintenance.

Can I ask, where you saying I am the kinda people NY advised him against or for? Just wondering because I didn't pay much attention to his post.

 

[Jiigzz]

I don't get your post, I proposed him to work over his TDEE not BMR , which is still only an estimate of the energy needed to maintain, hence I added the info of creating a surplus with the ratios for the essential macro nutrients. Also mentioned he has to keep increasing kCalories and from where actually (carbs and to adjust prot and fat effectively for the new weights). Again since it is all an estimate he has to try it out and keep track to find his TDEE (maintenance level) accurately and this adjust the amount of carbs needed to create a surplus. Again, prot and fats are essentially weight dependent and cabs are dependent upon kCalories needed for a surplus or maintenance.

Can I ask, where you saying I am the kinda people NY advised him against or for? Just wondering because I didn't pay much attention to his post.

Haha, no. I meant your one of the people whose advice he should trust. From what NYiron said, it just seemed like it could be misinterpreted and discrediting your advice, which i'm sure wasn't the intention, just the way I read it.

And, I wasn't proposing that you advised him wrong; I was explaining to him what BMR was and that this shouldnt be confused with TDEE, because ive read a few times in the past here people getting confused between the two and relying on calculators that estimate BMR and thinking this their calorie maintainece.

Wasn't taking a dig at you in any form; any person on this forum knows you give sound advice.

 

[Celorza]

Haha, no. I meant your one of the people whose advice he should trust. From what NYiron said, it just seemed like it could be misinterpreted and discrediting your advice, which i'm sure wasn't the intention, just the way I read it.

And, I wasn't proposing that you advised him wrong; I was explaining to him what BMR was and that this shouldnt be confused with TDEE, because ive read a few times in the past here people getting confused between the two and relying on calculators that estimate BMR and thinking this their calorie maintainece.

Wasn't taking a dig at you in any form; any person on this forum knows you give sound advice.

Thanks for the kind words haha...Sorry I just really didn't get it at first. I did think NY was trying to discredit me, but reading him write in another thread: "If you don't eat dirty on a bulk you wont put on size" puts me at ease of having made a mistake here hehe.
All I intend is to help out, although we all know this are just essential guidelines and standards, OP has to find out what works BEST for him, and has to have the usual trial and error to find his Maintenance level and to start molding his diet around it. We all do , but a bit of help and pointers of where to start always help I guess!!

That said, what Beny said is also true and I told him so too...He is too young to need or take supplements, and even at higher ages, for body composition its 99% diet+training+rest and only 1% supplementation IMO.

 

[Jiigzz]

Thanks for the kind words haha...Sorry I just really didn't get it at first. I did think NY was trying to discredit me, but reading him write in another thread: "If you don't eat dirty on a bulk you wont put on size" puts me at ease of having made a mistake here hehe.
All I intend is to help out, although we all know this are just essential guidelines and standards, OP has to find out what works BEST for him, and has to have the usual trial and error to find his Maintenance level and to start molding his diet around it. We all do , but a bit of help and pointers of where to start always help I guess!!

That said, what Beny said is also true and I told him so too...He is too young to need or take supplements, and even at higher ages, for body composition its 99% diet+training+rest and only 1% supplementation IMO.

Yeah it seemed that way too me; but tbh your rep power speaks for itself haha. The way I worded my post was a bit poor, I was just explaining the difference between TDEE and BMR, as i'm sure he will come across both terms and may assume they mean the same thing. So if he came across BMR he would know what to do and how to interpret it.

Hopefully that clears it up haha. And yeah I def agree, a supplement is just that, a supplement. And should only be used (imo) when macros cannot be hit through eating foods or if you are restricting a food type (i.e. a vegetarian who may need protein or iron etc because they dont eat meat).

 

[Beach_Body]

Heavy compound lifts. Oly lifts.

Don't avoid cross fit, don't get to sucked into it. Your not a body builder and a lot of crossfit will transfer to improved athletic performance.

I wouldn't worry about your bf. The fact that you lost that much off p90x means when you start really training you'll lean out and grow. Being young has it's perks.

Eat a lot of protein, I strongly recommend counting calories for a while. This requires weighing food... I can easily eye out 8oz of chicken, not guess. Because I used a food scale for years.

Rugby is a lot of running. Avoid dead lifts close to games or contact practices. Cleans will be your beat friend. Do them heavy. Your a back I'm guessing?

Ok thats good to hear! Yeah definitaly a back lol

 

[Beach_Body]

Thanks cel and everyone else, got more than i thought! And yeah im an outside center

 

[Wils92]

Im 15 years old and i was currently over weight at 185 then went down to 146! I dont have much fat on me anymore but i can only see the outline of my abs:/ i workout 6 times a week with cardio everyday and i also play rugby! I eat really healthy so idk whats wrong maybe its just loose skin so any help/suggestions! Maybe bulk up abs idk? Thanks in advance!

Hey man your not far off your abs being visible, i would say that if you were to lose a further 2-3% bodyfat then your abs would be clearly visible, no matter what people say abs are strictly a body fat thing, if you have bodyfat around the 4-11% range then you will have clear visable abs, obviously the definition would be changing.

Now, obviously you keep in shape and are active within the week so that raises one question in my mind and that is your DIET.

After doing some calculations after taking in some of your stats eg height, weight age activity level i have come up with the following:

To lose weight when your highly active you will need to be consuming:

Carbohydrates: 297grams = 1186 calories
Protein: 161 grams of protein = 644 calories
Fat: 61 grams of SATURATED WHOLE FATS = 638 calories.

As you are active and i would imagine want to keep what little size you have for rugby, then you will want to be consuming more protein on a weight loss diet to make up for the lack of carbs, for example if you were on a bulking diet you would need 1lbs of protein per pound of body weight and more carbs.


PROTEIN: At Bristol Rugby we have been given a list of foods that would be easy to prepare and that are also rich in proteins, so if you got your mother to cook up some meals in advance that are rich in the following.


WHOLE Eggs - Please the yolk is very importaint, use the whole of the egg as even though the yolk contains colesterol and fat it is also very nutritous and contains protein as well as egg whites.

BEANS - Any of mother natures beans will be very good and high in proteins, so i would add to meals that consist of brown rice and chicken ( much tastier)

CHICKEN - Self explanitory

RED MEAT - High in BCAA amino acids and protein

TUNA/Fish - again aminos and fish oils.

and then obviously you have your SUPPLEMENTS like protein shake.


For your carbohydrates please take the slow releasing wholegrain brown rice or pasta as this will not store into fat as easily and is slow releasing.

Training- For your training to lose fat and strip weight i would recommend 20 minutes maximum on a tredmill doing HIIT


This means setting the tredmill at a jogging pace for 30 seconds, and then sprint as fast as you can for 30 seconds, rince and repeat for 20 minutes and i promise you that you will see those abs in no time at all


Hope that helps.
Wils.

 

[Medical420]

Steak, ground beef/turkey, milk, cottage cheese, greek yogurt, turkey. Those are good friends too.

I suggest lowfat dairy products IMO. As for what you have achieved, that is amazing and congrats. Keep at lifting and diet. Abs are build in kitchen as much as in the gym. Minimize your grain and sugar intake as this still has an effect on your body type and your stomach/waist area.

 

[Beach_Body]

Hey man your not far off your abs being visible, i would say that if you were to lose a further 2-3% bodyfat then your abs would be clearly visible, no matter what people say abs are strictly a body fat thing, if you have bodyfat around the 4-11% range then you will have clear visable abs, obviously the definition would be changing.

Now, obviously you keep in shape and are active within the week so that raises one question in my mind and that is your DIET.

After doing some calculations after taking in some of your stats eg height, weight age activity level i have come up with the following:

To lose weight when your highly active you will need to be consuming:

Carbohydrates: 297grams = 1186 calories
Protein: 161 grams of protein = 644 calories
Fat: 61 grams of SATURATED WHOLE FATS = 638 calories.

As you are active and i would imagine want to keep what little size you have for rugby, then you will want to be consuming more protein on a weight loss diet to make up for the lack of carbs, for example if you were on a bulking diet you would need 1lbs of protein per pound of body weight and more carbs.

PROTEIN: At Bristol Rugby we have been given a list of foods that would be easy to prepare and that are also rich in proteins, so if you got your mother to cook up some meals in advance that are rich in the following.

WHOLE Eggs - Please the yolk is very importaint, use the whole of the egg as even though the yolk contains colesterol and fat it is also very nutritous and contains protein as well as egg whites.

BEANS - Any of mother natures beans will be very good and high in proteins, so i would add to meals that consist of brown rice and chicken ( much tastier)

CHICKEN - Self explanitory

RED MEAT - High in BCAA amino acids and protein

TUNA/Fish - again aminos and fish oils.

and then obviously you have your SUPPLEMENTS like protein shake.

For your carbohydrates please take the slow releasing wholegrain brown rice or pasta as this will not store into fat as easily and is slow releasing.

Training- For your training to lose fat and strip weight i would recommend 20 minutes maximum on a tredmill doing HIIT

This means setting the tredmill at a jogging pace for 30 seconds, and then sprint as fast as you can for 30 seconds, rince and repeat for 20 minutes and i promise you that you will see those abs in no time at all

Hope that helps.
Wils.

Thanks and my diet is pretty good my friend sometimes calls me a girl because of how much i care about what i eat but idc lol i dont eat refined grains its all whole wheat if i feel the need and HIIT seems pretty fun since i like sprinting so ill try that out i used to do that durring soccer conditioning! Ive gained some weight now at 151 but its muscle because i still have the same amount of fat and look more defined!

 

[Beach_Body]

I suggest lowfat dairy products IMO. As for what you have achieved, that is amazing and congrats. Keep at lifting and diet. Abs are build in kitchen as much as in the gym. Minimize your grain and sugar intake as this still has an effect on your body type and your stomach/waist area.

Yeah ive been really careful with my intake and i think its more of a lifestyle now been going on serious since february this year! One question i eat a lot of fruits and i mean a lot at night when i want to snack like grapes, pears, peaches etc an i know they contain sugar should i maybe cut down on those and just eat steamed vegetables? Thanks

 

[Medical420]

Yeah ive been really careful with my intake and i think its more of a lifestyle now been going on serious since february this year! One question i eat a lot of fruits and i mean a lot at night when i want to snack like grapes, pears, peaches etc an i know they contain sugar should i maybe cut down on those and just eat steamed vegetables? Thanks

Yes and no. I myself only eat strawberries, bananasm rasp and blueberrirs as a nightime snack.

No first, Different sugar and fibrous. Yes, depending on how late at night. Food in your digestive system while sleeping takes energy away from healing muscle, organs and tissues. Fruits digest fairly quickly, so no less than 2 hours before bed should be the absolute minimimum.

IMO

Cheers bro, and keep it up!

 

[Beach_Body]

Thanks and i will! Its usually a couple/few hours before i sleep

 

[NYiron]

Yes and no. I myself only eat strawberries, bananasm rasp and blueberrirs as a nightime snack.

No first, Different sugar and fibrous. Yes, depending on how late at night. Food in your digestive system while sleeping takes energy away from healing muscle, organs and tissues. Fruits digest fairly quickly, so no less than 2 hours before bed should be the absolute minimimum.

IMO

Cheers bro, and keep it up!

Do you have supporting evidence of this as a detriment? kcal yielded through digestion will surely negate any lost in the digestion process.

 

[Medical420]

I am not stating loss, I am stating unhealthy. As for supporting info.
I get and got my info through my naturopathic doctors.
digestion slows while sleeping. Light foods 2 hours before bed is fine. Having a full meal 2hr pre bed Isnt recommended.
if you are digesting, How are you at complete rest?
You are however Reducing the full benefits of the healing/repair process. Which is at its most effective while at complete rest.

Explained to me by my naturopathic Dr.'s

iPhone AM.com app

 

[NYiron]

I am not stating loss, I am stating unhealthy. As for supporting info.
I get and got my info through my naturopathic doctors.
digestion slows while sleeping. Light foods 2 hours before bed is fine. Having a full meal 2hr pre bed Isnt recommended.
if you are digesting, How are you at complete rest?
You are however Reducing the full benefits of the healing/repair process. Which is at its most effective while at complete rest.

Explained to me by my naturopathic Dr.'s

iPhone AM.com app

Scientific research has identified measurable, causative factors and specific methods of preventing and/or treating hundreds of health problems. Naturopaths have done little more than create glib generalities. The above theories are simplistic and/or clash with science-based knowledge of body physiology and pathology. For example:

• "Balance," "vitality," and "harmony with the body" are vitalistic concepts. Like "optimal health" or "supporting" of the body, these concepts are vague and cannot be objectively measured or scientifically tested.
• Naturopaths pretend that precise medical treatment is less important than "maintaining body balance."
• Whether infectious disease occurs depends on the degree of exposure to an infectious organism, the virulence of the organism, and the body's ability to resist. A person does not need to be "toxic" or "imbalanced" in order to catch a cold.
• Some diseases are an inevitable result of genetic make-up. Others have little to do with hereditary factors.
• The general concept of treating disease by "strengthening the immune system" is unsubstantiated and clashes with the fact that in some conditions, such as allergies or autoimmune diseases, the immune system is overreactive.
• Naturopathy's claim that "natural methods" can treat cancer by strengthening the immune system is unsubstantiated, and the notion that cancer represents a failure of the immune system is simplistic [6]. In the late 1950s, it was hypothesized that the immune system guards against cancer cells in ways similar to its protection against infectious organisms. However, subsequent research has demonstrated that relationships between cancers and the immune system are highly complex and that successful tumors develop "tolerance" mechanisms that enable them to invade the body without activating immune responses that would destroy them. The rapidly developing science of cancer immunotherapy is aimed at detecting and defeating these mechanisms. One way might be to mobilize T- cells to attack and destroy cancers, but this will not be simple to do [7]. Merely increasing the number of such cells won't work. Thus the odds that any dietary measure, herb, or other "alternative" approach will solve the problem of cancer by increasing immune surveillance should be regarded as zero.

Naturopaths assert that their "natural" methods, when properly used, rarely have adverse effects because they do not interfere with the individual's inherent healing abilities. This claim is nonsense. Any medication (drug or herb) potent enough to produce a therapeutic effect is potent enough to cause adverse effects. Drugs should not be used (and would not merit FDA approval) unless the probable benefit is significantly greater than the probable risk. Moreover, medically used drugs rarely "interfere with the healing processes." The claim that scientific medical care "merely eliminates or suppresses symptoms" is both absurd and pernicious.
Most of the things naturopaths do have not been scientifically substantiated; and some—such as homeopathy—clearly are worthless. In many cases, naturopaths combine sensible dietary advice (based on medically proven strategies) with senseless recommendations for products.

Barrett, S. (2012, January 2012). A close look at naturopathy. Retrieved from http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Naturopathy/naturopathy.html

Do you have any science backing such claims?

 

[Medical420]

Lol. Your right bro. Being in a wheel chair during winter months. On methotrexate, prednasone, Celebrex, naproxine, pantaloc, Paroxatine and a biological Humeria prescribed and eligable for Enbrel. I have walnut size boils, some since early 20s, skin probelms, back problems! Severe arthritis (case studied). I let medical doctors do their thing with worsening results. I went natural. Diet and herbs and I have less swelling, less anxiety anger and depression. More energy, clearer head. The future looks brighter with allergies (food and environmental) Lessing. I use a **** load of MJ for pain, and am able to function in daily life with it.

So your little Neh say to natural doctors, a growing in popularity with more positive results than negative. Means little to the people that have seen both sides with only HERBS actually helping.

I have almost 2" of my medical records on hand in home. We compare then with now monthly. And every month, things have improved. Form 90% body inflammed to 30% since Jun 12.

No offense bro, But open your mind. You can find good or bad of any thing you "search" on the net.

Your cute cut and paste shows me you have basic computer skills. Not something to argue medical and natural. Fortunately. I have recorded my progress. My wife has lived through health sickness and now health again. I have approx 500 people in my life that has seenme in a suicidal state 2 years ago. To being almost "normal" again, mentally and physically.

Take care