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My bulking diet, Critique please

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    hahaha I have no idea why everyone thinks carbs make you fat.. I think people need to read more on their function and how they work and not base opinions on broscience..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    hahaha I have no idea why everyone thinks carbs make you fat.. I think people need to read more on their function and how they work and not base opinions on broscience..
    I think everyone thinks that because carbs do make you fat. Unless your active. Plus with the sucess of atkins, it's hard to deny the fact that carbs make you fat. Especially when people think "carbs", they think simple junk carbs like white potatoes, white bread, chips, soda, sugar,etc.

    Also, some people are more susceptable to gaining from carbs. I am. I couldn't get my lower abs to show no matter what I did. I started a carb cycling diet, and 3 weeks later, WHAM. I had lower abs. Now I have a full 6 pack showing.

    People are under the misconception that when you Bulk, it's an excuse to eat whatever you want, and gaining fat is OK. Why is it OK to gain fat? Aren't we in this to look good/be strong? I guess if your gearing towards a powerlifter/strongman, then a little fat won't hurt you. But why pack on any more than you have too? Even if you don't care if you gain some, still, why do it? You could be gaining just muscle.

    "oh, I'm gonna start my bulk, pizza's and all you can eat, here I come. Because guys online say I can't eat too much!!!!" "Oh my, I"m fat now..."

    Why not just eat right year around and be at your best all the time? Seems kinda silly to get fat, then thin out, then get fat, then thin out, etc. etc.

    Mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by adeadbodyman View Post
    I think everyone thinks that because carbs do make you fat. Unless your active. Plus with the sucess of atkins, it's hard to deny the fact that carbs make you fat. Especially when people think "carbs", they think simple junk carbs like white potatoes, white bread, chips, soda, sugar,etc.

    Also, some people are more susceptable to gaining from carbs. I am. I couldn't get my lower abs to show no matter what I did. I started a carb cycling diet, and 3 weeks later, WHAM. I had lower abs. Now I have a full 6 pack showing.

    People are under the misconception that when you Bulk, it's an excuse to eat whatever you want, and gaining fat is OK. Why is it OK to gain fat? Aren't we in this to look good/be strong? I guess if your gearing towards a powerlifter/strongman, then a little fat won't hurt you. But why pack on any more than you have too? Even if you don't care if you gain some, still, why do it? You could be gaining just muscle.

    "oh, I'm gonna start my bulk, pizza's and all you can eat, here I come. Because guys online say I can't eat too much!!!!" "Oh my, I"m fat now..."

    Why not just eat right year around and be at your best all the time? Seems kinda silly to get fat, then thin out, then get fat, then thin out, etc. etc.

    Mike
    Exactly my point about broscience. You do realise that any macronutrient has the capacity to 'turn' into fat? Weight loss is attributed to calories in being less than calories out. So the 'success' of atkins is based on this. Eating LESS than you burn will turn into weight loss. And note I said weight loss, not fat loss. Secondly, lose the term simple CHO, as this makes no sense. Yes, monosaccarides are 'simple' in that they are single molecule however glucose (with a GI of around 100 (enters the bloodstream quickley) and Fructose (with a GI rating of approx. 20(enters bloodstream slowly) are both 'simple CHO' in the sense they are single molecule but both BEHAVE and absorb at varying times.

    Then you make the point that "some people think that bulking means you can eat whatever you want". I dont see what this has to do with the discussion on CHO. If you want to make a broad statement about CHO then I can do the same with Fats. Eating to much trans fatty acids or saturated fat, however people KNOW these are bad for you, hence why they avoid them. By the same logic they can also tell which 'simple' CHO's to avoid so your argument makes no sense.

    And just FYI, the least likely pathway for CHO is fat, as the body needs to fuel for brain and muscle function.

    I could go on and explain how proteins can be turned into fat when you eat over your calorie maintainence, or turned into glucose in the body (potential waste of amino acids but i digress).
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    Jiigzz,

    Calories in calories out. Yes. What do you know of that has more calories and less nutrients of what you NEED? Carbohydrates.


    About my abs experience, I was not eating simple (I mean quick digesting, and don't pick my $hit apart because the terms I am using are the most known and understood, even though they may not be "scientific") carbs. I have never been a big junkfood guy. I just know that everything else stayed the same, and I changed to a carb cycle diet. 3 weeks later, they all showed good.
    Not like "oh the lighting has to be just right", I mean, they showed good all the time. If carbs don't attribute to fat or at the very minimum, slow down fat loss, then why did this happen to me?

    I know that too much in and not enough out of anything will make you gain. I think everyone knows that.

    "Then you make the point that "some people think that bulking means you can eat whatever you want". I dont see what this has to do with the discussion on CHO." Well, the title of the OP is about bulking, and "most" people that bulk eat everything in sight. So that's why I said that. I'm just trying to get the point across that there is no reason to get fat while your bulking. And excess carbs will make you fat, more and quicker than excess protien. FACT.

    "And just FYI, the least likely pathway for CHO is fat, as the body needs to fuel for brain and muscle function." Yea, I don't believe that, this kind of thinking to me is "broscience", and has never been clinically PROVEN to be true. Another personal experience I did. About 4 years ago, I did atkins for 6 months. Here's how it went:

    First 2 MONTHS were induction. That means less than 20 carbs a day. I was around 8.
    Second 2 Months were about 20 carbs.
    Last 2 months were about 40 carbs.

    This is daily. I felt fine the whole time, other than the typical headache/lethargy during the first couple days. I did it just to see what all the hype was about, I ended up losing about 15 pounds (i would guess that some was water, and maybe 10 lbs of fat), but I was still working out during the whole thing. I also know of other people who have done low carb diets for over a year continuous. Thier muscles and brains work fine. Explain?

    Also, atkins works. Plain and simple. And I am not convinced that you will lose muscle, as long as you stay active and utilize your allowable carbs to the best, (greens and veggies instead of bread and potatoes).
    Show me a all carbohydrate diet that works as well as atkins?
    AND, have you ever looked at the amount of calories in an Atkins diet? Ground Beef, steak, pork, etc.? It ain't low, I can tell you that. Yet people loose wieght all the time on it. For some, it is muscle and fat. Not all.
    How many athletic guys do you know eat the same amount of carbs as they do protien? I don't know any. At least that do it as a normal regular diet. What's a bodybuilders diet like before a show?

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/peak...strategies.htm

    I'm not here to argue dude, and I def. don't know everything about food. I just tell my experiences, and things that has worked for me and other people I know.
    mike
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    Hey TyrO,

    I think that the basics of your diet are a good start since none of "us" really know what your diet looks like prior to this or how well your body is going to respond to this cycle, which by the way looks like a perfect first cycle for great strength and mass gains. Supported by a reasonable diet, I don't see you being disappointed.

    Just employing good principles and judging by your weight and bf, I personally like the higher protein than carb ratio. I would however tweek your sequence of meals.

    Switch the tuna for the shake in meal 1 (yes 2 cans of tuna for meal 2). Your body will make better use of that shake first thing in the a.m.

    Also switch meal 5 with meal 6. Better to have those carbs preworkout than later in day when you are close to bedtime. PB will do you better then as well.

    Start with that and adjust as needed, remember it is your first cycle and probably not your last. Next time you will have a better idea of what worked well and what didn't.

    Feel free to pm me as you make progress....or if you needmore help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adeadbodyman View Post
    Jiigzz,

    Calories in calories out. Yes. What do you know of that has more calories and less nutrients of what you NEED? Carbohydrates.


    About my abs experience, I was not eating simple (I mean quick digesting, and don't pick my $hit apart because the terms I am using are the most known and understood, even though they may not be "scientific") carbs. I have never been a big junkfood guy. I just know that everything else stayed the same, and I changed to a carb cycle diet. 3 weeks later, they all showed good.
    Not like "oh the lighting has to be just right", I mean, they showed good all the time. If carbs don't attribute to fat or at the very minimum, slow down fat loss, then why did this happen to me?

    I know that too much in and not enough out of anything will make you gain. I think everyone knows that.

    "Then you make the point that "some people think that bulking means you can eat whatever you want". I dont see what this has to do with the discussion on CHO." Well, the title of the OP is about bulking, and "most" people that bulk eat everything in sight. So that's why I said that. I'm just trying to get the point across that there is no reason to get fat while your bulking. And excess carbs will make you fat, more and quicker than excess protien. FACT.

    "And just FYI, the least likely pathway for CHO is fat, as the body needs to fuel for brain and muscle function." Yea, I don't believe that, this kind of thinking to me is "broscience", and has never been clinically PROVEN to be true. Another personal experience I did. About 4 years ago, I did atkins for 6 months. Here's how it went:

    First 2 MONTHS were induction. That means less than 20 carbs a day. I was around 8.
    Second 2 Months were about 20 carbs.
    Last 2 months were about 40 carbs.

    This is daily. I felt fine the whole time, other than the typical headache/lethargy during the first couple days. I did it just to see what all the hype was about, I ended up losing about 15 pounds (i would guess that some was water, and maybe 10 lbs of fat), but I was still working out during the whole thing. I also know of other people who have done low carb diets for over a year continuous. Thier muscles and brains work fine. Explain?

    Also, atkins works. Plain and simple. And I am not convinced that you will lose muscle, as long as you stay active and utilize your allowable carbs to the best, (greens and veggies instead of bread and potatoes).
    Show me a all carbohydrate diet that works as well as atkins?
    AND, have you ever looked at the amount of calories in an Atkins diet? Ground Beef, steak, pork, etc.? It ain't low, I can tell you that. Yet people loose wieght all the time on it. For some, it is muscle and fat. Not all.
    How many athletic guys do you know eat the same amount of carbs as they do protien? I don't know any. At least that do it as a normal regular diet. What's a bodybuilders diet like before a show?

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/peak...strategies.htm

    I'm not here to argue dude, and I def. don't know everything about food. I just tell my experiences, and things that has worked for me and other people I know.
    mike
    Fruit and Vegetables are all forms of carbohydrate, so they are more nutrient dense than anything else. Your argument makes no sense. Secondly, you state that you dont believe that the least likely pathway for CHO fat storage. I'm telling you it does. And i know this because I study this. Nutrition is what I do, it is what I study.

    You also state that you dont know any athletic people who consume more CHO than protein or fat, I could name Hundreds of thousands. Football Players, Rugby Players, Soccer Players, Spriinters, Distance Runners, Cyclists, the list goes on.

    And I can explain how your brain works fine, specific amino acids have the capacity to be turned into Glucose (research Branch Chain Amino Acids) and fats also have this capacity (again, do some research).

    Nothing you have stated is fact or backed with science.

    Another fact for you, CHO is removed from a bodybuilders diet becuse CHO carries water with it, they remove it so there body doesn't appear bloated for competition.

    Hayden, M.Ed Phys

    My carb diet is an example of a perfect diet, the athletes I work with all have high CHO diets and they have lower BF% than many. Explain how this is so?

    Heres some research for you to consider:
    http://www.sfsn.ethz.ch/PDF/06_Jeukendrup.pdf
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10200063
    http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/1641...lCh0ERmQOuR3.0
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9534081
    http://books.google.co.nz/books?hl=e...baller&f=false

    And for sports with high CHO intakes:
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...99900704001169
    https://www.thieme-connect.com/ejour...s-2007-1024951
    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00004/art00003
    Last edited by Jiigzz; 06-13-2012 at 12:08 AM. Reason: Added Research
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    ^^ as well as my above argument, you clearly have some thought that excess protein will not store as fat, let me explain how it does. Protein that is not needed in the body (for repair, molecule transport etc.) can be converted to fat via deamination. This is where the amino group is removed (in which is then turned into ammonia and then into Urea and excreted via urine) (this happens because your body has no need for anymore aminos), What your are left with is a carbon group and hydrogen. The carbon group can then either be used as fuel (via becoming glucose, hence why your brain works fine), or STORED as fat. (of course this is simplification of the process but you get my drift).

    Your body has a finite capacity for using Protein. And it can be converted into Fat.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deamination

    Poor source but meh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz

    Fruit and Vegetables are all forms of carbohydrate, so they are more nutrient dense than anything else. Your argument makes no sense. Secondly, you state that you dont believe that the least likely pathway for CHO fat storage. I'm telling you it does. And i know this because I study this. Nutrition is what I do, it is what I study.

    You also state that you dont know any athletic people who consume more CHO than protein or fat, I could name Hundreds of thousands. Football Players, Rugby Players, Soccer Players, Spriinters, Distance Runners, Cyclists, the list goes on.

    And I can explain how your brain works fine, specific amino acids have the capacity to be turned into Glucose (research Branch Chain Amino Acids) and fats also have this capacity (again, do some research).

    Nothing you have stated is fact or backed with science.

    Another fact for you, CHO is removed from a bodybuilders diet becuse CHO carries water with it, they remove it so there body doesn't appear bloated for competition.

    Hayden, M.Ed Phys

    My carb diet is an example of a perfect diet, the athletes I work with all have high CHO diets and they have lower BF% than many. Explain how this is so?

    Heres some research for you to consider:
    http://www.sfsn.ethz.ch/PDF/06_Jeukendrup.pdf
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10200063
    http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/1641...lCh0ERmQOuR3.0
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9534081
    http://books.google.co.nz/books?hl=e...baller&f=false

    And for sports with high CHO intakes:
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...99900704001169
    https://www.thieme-connect.com/ejour...s-2007-1024951
    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00004/art00003
    Cho is only removed from a Bodybuilders diet for glycogen manipulation, high levels are added back in the day or days before competition for added fullness size and definition..
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    I will check out the research, thank you for the info. I am gonna PM you.
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