6"2 205 lbs, hey!

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    6"2 205 lbs, hey!


    I have been reading the forums for awhile and feel free to set me on fire for asking this, I just can't wrap my head around it. I'm 6'2", 205 pounds and I believe around 12% bf (was taken 2 months ago). Its hard for me to believe my daily caloric intake is 3000 calories give or take a few, an that if I wanted to bulk, it could be even higher. I just can't eat that much in one day! Any advice for this Clydesdale? I've been told to base calories off lean muscle instead of full body weight too..

    Again I apologize if this is a beaten to death topic, hard to search through stuff on a phone at work! Thanks!
    Last edited by subjec; 06-07-2012 at 03:56 PM. Reason: 6'2"

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    It is really person dependent. Right Now I am 6'4 and ~225. I am also around 12-13%. For me I have found that I pretty much maintain weight around ~2500 Cal a day (actually have 1/2lb loss every week and a half at those cals). I start to gain around 2700, but I usually eat around 3000 when trying to gain.

    The best thing you can do is calculate your BMR (I like the Harris-benedict formula) and eat at that level. Weigh yourself often and record the weights. Give it about 3 or 4 weeks and see if you gained/lost/stayed the same. Make sure you weigh at the same times and the same circumstances (eg first thing in the morning, naked, after pissing.)

    Once you figure out your trend adjust your calories by 200 and see what happens over 3 or 4 weeks.
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    That was just what I needed, I appreciate it. I have a pretty balanced diet at the moment and I'm just trying to add a little bit more muscle to my frame, so il give your advice a try. I work a 7 to 330 job, so consistency won't be a problem. Thanks again!
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    Quote Originally Posted by subjec View Post
    That was just what I needed, I appreciate it. I have a pretty balanced diet at the moment and I'm just trying to add a little bit more muscle to my frame, so il give your advice a try. I work a 7 to 330 job, so consistency won't be a problem. Thanks again!
    Not a problem. Make sure you are timing your nutrients to promote muscle growth instead of fat gain! There are various methods and ways to do this, but the real take-away is to ensure you have a majority of your day's calories post workout. Immediately after a workout you should also take in protein and a carb source as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by subjec View Post
    Its hard for me to believe my daily caloric intake is 3000 calories give or take a few, an that if I wanted to bulk, it could be even higher. I just can't eat that much in one day!
    You can with high caloric density foods, mainly fat and sugar. When you are gaining too much too fast, you'll be putting on fat instead of muscle. The only way to know for sure is to try and see what happens. Bulking is not much related to eating the foods that are typically described as the healthy ones.

    But if you stuff yourself too much at one sitting, you might very well find that your appetite is ruined for many hours afterwards. Adding whole milk and small deserts throughout the day might be the best pathway to weight gain for someone who is not naturally a big eater.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark C View Post
    You can with high caloric density foods, mainly fat and sugar.
    Ummm, no. Sugar is 4.5 calories per gram like protein.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rva View Post
    Ummm, no. Sugar is 4.5 calories per gram like protein.
    It is rather interesting when I read this kind of posts...Protein has a Caloric Weight of 4 kCals per gram, and it can be debated it actually is along the 3.7 range give or take .2 kCals for standard deviation factors in the studies presented...Might I ask where do you get 4.5 kCals= 1g of Sugar, and how is it you think that 4 kCals = 4.5 kCals ...just wondering, it sounds rather mathematical and accurate from you to say that
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    That's kind of a pretentiousness way to say "your numbers are wrong". But it's fair. I figured a deviation of about 10% isn't a big deal. Definitely when compared to the posters statement that it is calorically dense like fats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rva View Post
    That's kind of a pretentiousness way to say "your numbers are wrong". But it's fair. I figured a deviation of about 10% isn't a big deal. Definitely when compared to the posters statement that it is calorically dense like fats.
    I said "high caloric density foods". Comparing calories per gram is entirely irrelevant. Compare 100g of sugar (387 cal) to 100g of chicken breast (114 cal). That's density by weight. Compare a stomach full of cherry pie filling to a stomach full of bread. That's density going by volume.

    It's always easy to get more calories per day when you eat of lot of sugary foods... and fatty foods. It's easy to boost the calorie consumption of any meal by adding dessert, too. Nobody is going to gain weight by eating lots of nutritious broccoli. Not really by eating lots of chicken breast, either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rva View Post
    That's kind of a pretentiousness way to say "your numbers are wrong". But it's fair. I figured a deviation of about 10% isn't a big deal. Definitely when compared to the posters statement that it is calorically dense like fats.
    Merely a more classical way of telling you I see no data behind that and I have not run into those kinds of outcomes in data I have browsed myself . But then again I do appreciate the community participating and trying to help each other out, just be sure of keeping it close to the data !
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    When someone starts recommending to eat sugary foods for a bulk it makes me want to punch them in the face. If you can't eat much, force yourself to eat and your body will accommodate. You don't even have to eat THAT much more. Just up your calories by 100 maybe every 2 days and you can build up your appetite like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark C View Post
    I said "high caloric density foods". Comparing calories per gram is entirely irrelevant. Compare 100g of sugar (387 cal) to 100g of chicken breast (114 cal). That's density by weight. Compare a stomach full of cherry pie filling to a stomach full of bread. That's density going by volume.

    It's always easy to get more calories per day when you eat of lot of sugary foods... and fatty foods. It's easy to boost the calorie consumption of any meal by adding dessert, too. Nobody is going to gain weight by eating lots of nutritious broccoli. Not really by eating lots of chicken breast, either.
    A. You are comparing apples to oranges. Sugar is a straight up carb, chcicken is a complex protien with water weight etc. Sugar is better compared to protien powder.

    B. Do you honestly think eating a 350cal cupcake every meal is the best way to gain weight (over say adding some olive oil or almonds)>
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    Quote Originally Posted by rva View Post
    A. You are comparing apples to oranges. Sugar is a straight up carb, chcicken is a complex protien with water weight etc. Sugar is better compared to protien powder.

    B. Do you honestly think eating a 350cal cupcake every meal is the best way to gain weight (over say adding some olive oil or almonds)>
    A. No, you're the one who was making an irrelevant comparison by bringing up the number of calories per gram of carbohydrate - which has nothing to do with the caloric density of food. pointing out that chicken has water etc is when you are realizing the right track. But now you're shifting your argument. Are you now suggesting that added protein powder is a good way to add calories?

    B. The OP had already said that he can't eat enough. So yes, it is easier to add calories via sugary foods and fatty foods. That's a very big reason why the general population is fat, because it's so easy to add calories with sugary foods. Nobody was saying it's the best way nutritionally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by broda View Post
    When someone starts recommending to eat sugary foods for a bulk it makes me want to punch them in the face. If you can't eat much, force yourself to eat and your body will accommodate. You don't even have to eat THAT much more. Just up your calories by 100 maybe every 2 days and you can build up your appetite like that.
    Hey, I see the group genius has spoken. So when the OP has said effectively that he can't force himself to eat enough to gain, your reply is that he should force himself. That's just brilliant. Your avatar suits you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark C View Post
    Hey, I see the group genius has spoken. So when the OP has said effectively that he can't force himself to eat enough to gain, your reply is that he should force himself. That's just brilliant. Your avatar suits you.
    That's why I said PROGRESSIVELY eat more. Eating sugary foods because his appetite isn't huge is probably the dumbest thing he can do. If you go up 100 calories every 2 or 3 days it will increase your appetite slowly because your body will adapt to eating more. Don't cut corners in lifting by placing in nutritionally horrendous foods to meet a calorie quota. It would be extremely more beneficial for future progress and your body to slowly increase your appetite. Stop with this sugary food BS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark C View Post
    B. The OP had already said that he can't eat enough. So yes, it is easier to add calories via sugary foods and fatty foods. That's a very big reason why the general population is fat, because it's so easy to add calories with sugary foods. Nobody was saying it's the best way nutritionally.
    This is just stupid. It's along the lines of "drink a soda with every meal to increase calories".
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    this is rediculous. Eating high fat high sugar foods is only going to decrease insulin sensitivity and add the wrong kind of weight. Unless fat is what you want.

    Add 2 tbsp of peanut butter out of the jar at the end of every meal. extremely small volume, tasty, and good for you and provides 190-200 cals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by broda View Post
    That's why I said PROGRESSIVELY eat more. Eating sugary foods because his appetite isn't huge is probably the dumbest thing he can do. If you go up 100 calories every 2 or 3 days it will increase your appetite slowly because your body will adapt to eating more. Don't cut corners in lifting by placing in nutritionally horrendous foods to meet a calorie quota. It would be extremely more beneficial for future progress and your body to slowly increase your appetite. Stop with this sugary food BS.
    So you think that when people can't force themselves to eat any more, then forcing themselves to eat more will magically increase their appetite? Do you really think that the OP posted here without ever having already tried to force himself to eat more?

    One problem that hard gainers have with gaining weight is is they're listening to advice about eating only supposedly healthy foods. Then they're stuck at a low weight for sure. Having sugar for a few months, ESPECIALLY PWO, isn't going to irreparably harm his health. After gaining, then you cut back to maintain.

    Are you anti fruit also? Let me guess, did you watch all of Lustig's videos? Are you a Taubes fan? These things go in trends. It's anybody's guess what the next forbidden foods will be in a year or two.

    rva had mentioned some of the easy candidates so far as the fatty foods go: nuts and oils. I'd add butter to that list. Those alone probably wouldn't be enough. Sugar is an easy addition, as desserts or to put into shakes. If a person is a sugar pig and is piling up mounds of body fat, then that's different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by subjec View Post
    That was just what I needed, I appreciate it. I have a pretty balanced diet at the moment and I'm just trying to add a little bit more muscle to my frame, so il give your advice a try. I work a 7 to 330 job, so consistency won't be a problem. Thanks again!
    Your work schedule is ideal for a good split workout. You should do well with this. Good luck to you
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    Quote Originally Posted by rva View Post
    This is just stupid. It's along the lines of "drink a soda with every meal to increase calories".
    Soda and cream and whey would be even better. Though I myself haven't had a soda for years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    this is rediculous. Eating high fat high sugar foods is only going to decrease insulin sensitivity and add the wrong kind of weight. Unless fat is what you want.

    Add 2 tbsp of peanut butter out of the jar at the end of every meal. extremely small volume, tasty, and good for you and provides 190-200 cals.
    You think that peanut butter doesn't have any added sugar in it? Go look at a label.
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    Are you serious? Even Smuckers All Natural PB has zero sugar
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    My PB has 3g of sugar per serving. OH NOEZZZZZZZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark C View Post
    You think that peanut butter doesn't have any added sugar in it? Go look at a label.
    You think the 3g of molasses in 2tbsp of Jiff natural pb is as bad as the 100g of refined sugar and flour in a cupcake?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    You think the 3g of molasses in 2tbsp of Jiff natural pb is as bad as the 100g of refined sugar and flour in a cupcake?
    Well you just switched from saying peanut butter to special low-sugar peanut butter. But no matter.

    Now, maybe somebody can answer the following: if sugar automatically makes a person fat, then why weren't the Kitavans fat? They ate lots of fruit. Yet their pictures show them as being very lean and fairly muscular. Why didn't sugar magically make them fat? I'd say that it's because they aren't overeating. They don't consume too many calories. What's your answer?

    I've also seen pictures from decades ago of Inuit women looking pretty fat. How could they have gotten fat with no sugar and very little carbs?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark C View Post
    Well you just switched from saying peanut butter to special low-sugar peanut butter. But no matter.

    Now, maybe somebody can answer the following: if sugar automatically makes a person fat, then why weren't the Kitavans fat? They ate lots of fruit. Yet their pictures show them as being very lean and fairly muscular. Why didn't sugar magically make them fat? I'd say that it's because they aren't overeating. They don't consume too many calories. What's your answer??

    Fruit sugars release much more slowly into your system because of all of the fiber in the fruit (some fruits are better than others of course). Some of this fiber is made out of pectin which has been shown to inhibit fat storage in some studies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark C View Post
    I've also seen pictures from decades ago of Inuit women looking pretty fat. How could they have gotten fat with no sugar and very little carbs?
    Loads of whale and seal blubber will make you fat, no doubt about it.
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    I have regular Jiff PB and it has 3g of sugar per serving. Also, now you're comparing fruits to processed, ****ty food. Please stop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    Fruit sugars release much more slowly into your system because of all of the fiber in the fruit (some fruits are better than others of course). Some of this fiber is made out of pectin which has been shown to inhibit fat storage in some studies.

    Loads of whale and seal blubber will make you fat, no doubt about it.
    So are you agreeing that it is ultimately the amount of calories that makes people fat? Or no?

    And yes, fruits vary a lot according to their GI; e.g., grapes are much higher than plums. (Meanwhile, whole wheat bread is about the same GI as white bread.) But even considering that a high GI means that excess calories will likely be stored as fat more quickly, how does that result in fat gain if you later take those same calories out of adipose tissue to use as fuel?

    IOW, what I'm saying is that sugar doesn't magically make people fat, which is what Lustig is now claiming. The trendy thing used to be Taubes saying that carbs make people fat regardless of calories. That faded away as people realized it's not true. The rice eating Japanese weren't fat for many generations. So now there's an anti-sugar craze. I'd say that it's easy to get extra calories with sugar (and with fat). That's bad for fat people, but advantageous for those who deliberately want to gain weight. If a person carefully controls their calories (and the OP seemed very aware of his calorie intake), then sugar is not a big problem. If a person is getting fat from eating sugar, then they're eating too much; but that is not careful control.
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    To try to instill some rationality to the thread, I'll point out that the OP's question did NOT say, "I have no trouble consuming lots of food. What are the best and healthiest things to eat?"

    No, instead he said that he can hardly force himself to eat to maintenance level, much less the amounts needed to gain.

    So I responded that foods with high caloric density allow a person to more easily consume more calories. Those foods are high in fat and/or sugar and usually both. Then the knee-jerk anti-sugar responses took hold.

    We are now at the point of discussing glycemic index. Btw, table sugar (sucrose) has a medium-ish GI of around 57 or so. That's not all that much higher than many fruits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark C View Post
    Now, maybe somebody can answer the following: if sugar automatically makes a person fat, then why weren't the Kitavans fat? They ate lots of fruit. Yet their pictures show them as being very lean and fairly muscular. Why didn't sugar magically make them fat? I'd say that it's because they aren't overeating. They don't consume too many calories. What's your answer?
    You have a problem that I imagine the Kitvans don't have. You continually confuse apples and oranges.

    Of course calories matter most in gaining or losing weight. You eat a ton of carbs in a calorie deficient diet you are going to lose weight. You may find that you lose more muscle than you like but you will lose weight.

    On the other hand if you eat a calorie surplus the yes, you will gain. I think it is important to note that most of here to not simply want to gain weight but want to gain LBM. If you think the best way to do that is drink a large soda or cupcake with icing after every meal I think you will find that you are in the minority.
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    hey! sorry for the long delay in reply, i've been keeping up with the thread though. i figured i'd give you guys a run down of my daily diet and let you work off of that. i eat a lot of fruit and vegetables everyday, i enjoy the taste more then the health benefits and the energy i gain from the fruit in the morning is great. My 7 to 330 job is manual labor, i work for the DPW of my town, so im outside in all conditions on the handle of a shovel or a jackhammer, on my feet. I figured that changes my calorie allowance for the day as opposed to sitting at a desk all day. I go to the gym 5-6 days a week and 4 of those days are currently on the "HIML" program from jefit, if anyones ever heard of it. (ive altered a few of the exercises to suit me) now for a vague outline of the daily meal plan.

    wake up at 637am, half a glass almond milk and chobani yogurt (plain) as i drive myself to work.

    9am is breaktime at work and i have whole-wheat english muffin(no butter or anything) with egg white on it. 1 1/2 cup of blackberries, raspberries, blueberries. (ratio of each changes each day, i just fill up 1 1/2 cups total) and half an orange. Oh and a mouthful of walnuts

    12 is lunch and i have a sandwhich which is either chicken or turkey with cheese on whole wheat toasted bread. 1 cup walnuts/almonds
    and a protein shake (synth6)

    230 pm i grab another protein shake or else il be hungry because i go to gym at 4pm.

    6pm i have either turkey burger, tuna, chicken, or blackbean burger for dinner and a vegetable salad before hand, no dressing.

    with that, i might be hittin my caloric needs, but i havent counted my calories recently, i use to count every day and i found myself pulling my hair out and started to just do what my body told me to do.


    i really appreciated reading everything you guys have said, and i cant up my calories with sugar, id hate it and my body would flip ****. my stomach doesnt do well with sugar. I know fruit has sugar, but i believe that's different then processed sugar. maybe subconsciously i don't want to bulk, hahah it's frustrating as hell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by subjec View Post
    hey! sorry for the long delay in reply, i've been keeping up with the thread though. i figured i'd give you guys a run down of my daily diet and let you work off of that. i eat a lot of fruit and vegetables everyday, i enjoy the taste more then the health benefits and the energy i gain from the fruit in the morning is great. My 7 to 330 job is manual labor, i work for the DPW of my town, so im outside in all conditions on the handle of a shovel or a jackhammer, on my feet. I figured that changes my calorie allowance for the day as opposed to sitting at a desk all day. I go to the gym 5-6 days a week and 4 of those days are currently on the "HIML" program from jefit, if anyones ever heard of it. (ive altered a few of the exercises to suit me) now for a vague outline of the daily meal plan.

    wake up at 637am, half a glass almond milk and chobani yogurt (plain) as i drive myself to work.

    9am is breaktime at work and i have whole-wheat english muffin(no butter or anything) with egg white on it. 1 1/2 cup of blackberries, raspberries, blueberries. (ratio of each changes each day, i just fill up 1 1/2 cups total) and half an orange. Oh and a mouthful of walnuts

    12 is lunch and i have a sandwhich which is either chicken or turkey with cheese on whole wheat toasted bread. 1 cup walnuts/almonds
    and a protein shake (synth6)

    230 pm i grab another protein shake or else il be hungry because i go to gym at 4pm.

    6pm i have either turkey burger, tuna, chicken, or blackbean burger for dinner and a vegetable salad before hand, no dressing.

    with that, i might be hittin my caloric needs, but i havent counted my calories recently, i use to count every day and i found myself pulling my hair out and started to just do what my body told me to do.


    i really appreciated reading everything you guys have said, and i cant up my calories with sugar, id hate it and my body would flip ****. my stomach doesnt do well with sugar. I know fruit has sugar, but i believe that's different then processed sugar. maybe subconsciously i don't want to bulk, hahah it's frustrating as hell.
    Yeah I would just suggest adding a scoop of natural PB to your shakes. Easy calories there.
  

  
 

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