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The olive oil experiment

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    The olive oil experiment


    If it's all just energy in/energy out, I wonder if I can gain weight simply by ingesting 8oz of olive oil a day.

    This is nearly 2,000 calories on it's own, and will be combined with an additional 3,500 calories obtained from whole foods.

    Any thoughts?

    Dietary fat means NOTHING to me; you don't get fat from eating fat.

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    No idea, but I was tempted to try something similar with coconut oil.

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    "Unlike the longer chain fatty
    acids which are absorbed by the lymph system and must be acted on by the bile
    salts,
    short chain fatty
    acids are absorbed directly through the portal vein leading to the
    liver.
    As they do not need to be
    acted upon by the bile salts,
    these
    short and medium chain fatty acids supply quick energy.
    It is the longer chain fatty
    acids that are stored in the adipose tissue, particularly oleic
    and linoleic acid.
    Thus butter and
    coconut oil, which contain a significant portion of short and medium chain fatty
    acids, do not contribute to weight gain as much as olive oil and vegetable
    oil.
    The short and medium chain
    fatty acids also have anti-microbial and anti-fungal properties in the
    intestinal tract; they
    have anti-tumor
    properties and help strengthen the immune system,
    while an excess of
    polyunsaturated fatty acids stimulates tumor growth.
    Unsaturated omega-3 and
    omega-6 fatty acids are called essential fatty acids or EFA's because the
    body cannot manufacture them, at least not in the form in which they occur in
    foods. It is wise to limit intake of polyunsaturates to 4% of the caloric total,
    in approximate proportions 1% omega-3 linolenic acid and 2% omega-6 linoleic
    acid."

    Taken from
    http://www.tuberose.com/Fats_%26_Oils.html

    •   
       

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    interesting trial and error here...thats 5500 total cals, not knowing your stats im guessing there will be fat gained
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    After reading up a little on this myself recently, I'm going to switch out my olive oil for more butter and coconut oil. Still lots of natty pb and whole eggs though yum

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    coconut oil is legit!

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    another pretty awesome study but on cocoa butter, which i make my home made chocolate bars with (found in recipe section of this forum)

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/50/5/983.long

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    super interesting but in rabbits.

    fatty acid accumulation tends to "cap off" where as others dont,.
    http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.co...e-depends.html

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    Agreed - except for the last paragraph

    The authors do not report whether calorie intake varied between groups or how much actual adipose tissue the groups had. They only mention that during the 4-week experiment, all rabbits in the five experimental groups were healthy and gained weight.


    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    super interesting but in rabbits.

    fatty acid accumulation tends to "cap off" where as others dont,.
    http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.co...e-depends.html
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    i agree, however the excretion of certain saturated fats makes those fats more appealing for those on a bulk where it is cholesterol neutral.

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    Coconut oil lovers - try the Artisana brand of coconut butter (not their coconut oil) sold at whole foods. It is coconut oil blended with the coconut meat (7g carbs in 2 tbsp.) it tastes amazing straight out of the jar, like a desert......

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    With 5 of those carbs being fiber

    http://www.artisanafoods.com/products/coconut-butter

    Quote Originally Posted by 1newbie View Post
    Coconut oil lovers - try the Artisana brand of coconut butter (not their coconut oil) sold at whole foods. It is coconut oil blended with the coconut meat (7g carbs in 2 tbsp.) it tastes amazing straight out of the jar, like a desert......
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    heres what i have been enjoying regularly

    keto friendly chocolate bar? wait what...?

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    Nice
    Score into 8 pieces.
    You'll get about:
    16g fat
    3.75g carb
    2.25g fiber
    12g protein
    Per piece
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    damn...some good stuff on here!!!........ so no more olive oil....what about nuts?

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    Nuts are still great. I just think that coconut oil is better for adding fat than olive oil because of its higher proportion of mct which get used immediately as energy vs the lct in olive oil that take much longer to digest and are stored in adipose tissue before being used for energy.

    That's a really long sentence.
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    This thread's become slightly misleading IMO.

    While MCT's "can be" used as energy; they "will not" necessarily NOT BE STORED.

    Depends on a whole host of other variables as well. It's simply not that black and white.
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    Coconut oil is better than butter for frying,, it doesn't break down with heat,, longer chain fatty acids break down molecularly with heat and turn toxic...with that in mind, for cardiovascular health, it is healthier to eat cooked butter than cooked olive oil,, cooked coconut oil is even healthier,, but raw olive oil is best,, I put two tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil in my morning protein shake.. it helps me to keep a good hdl /Ldl ratio,,, we all know with AAS's, that's one of our biggest challenges ... why exacerbate the problem with unnecessary short chain fats,,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    This thread's becoem a bit misleading IMO.

    While MCT's "can be" used as energy; they "will not" necessarily NOT BE STORED.

    Depends on a whole host of other variables as well. It's simply not that black and white.
    I should have been more specific, you're right. MCT's have a greater immediate bioavailability as an energy source than LCT's and, so, have a lower likelyhood of being stored in the form of body fat when timed and dosed properly. This quality makes them, in my opinion, a better choice for fat supplimentation than olive oil, but by no means a replacement for dietary fats from whole foods (my favorite being whole eggs).

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    Yup yup and there's also the issue of what else you ate that meal, what your current energy needs are, current glycogen stores are, how your metabolism naturally reacts to fats (some preferentialy burn carbs), etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    I should have been more specific, you're right. MCT's have a greater immediate bioavailability as an energy source than LCT's and, so, have a lower likelyhood of being stored in the form of body fat when timed and dosed properly. This quality makes them, in my opinion, a better choice for fat supplimentation than olive oil, but by no means a replacement for dietary fats from whole foods (my favorite being whole eggs).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Yup yup and there's also the issue of what else you ate that meal, what your current energy needs are, current glycogen stores are, how your metabolism naturally reacts to fats (some preferentialy burn carbs), etc...
    You just have to keep one-upping me, huh? Lol jk all really good info. All falls into the "YMMV" category.

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    I have some stuff to say. But I need to do it while I'm on my computer later

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Yup yup and there's also the issue of what else you ate that meal, what your current energy needs are, current glycogen stores are, how your metabolism naturally reacts to fats (some preferentialy burn carbs), etc...
    Always have to one-up me, huh? Lol jk this is all good info! Falls into the "YMMV" category

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    hahahahah LMAO

    Just messin with ya bruh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    This thread's become slightly misleading IMO.

    While MCT's "can be" used as energy; they "will not" necessarily NOT BE STORED.

    Depends on a whole host of other variables as well. It's simply not that black and white.
    MCT are digested via portal circulation like carbohydrate, they are oxidized before LCT leading to first pass usage (MCT before LCT in the liver). They are used as a carb would be used. When taken pre workout that WILL be used and more then likely converted to ketones during that time. Since its short chain it allows the body to make use of it more easily. It can also aid in decreasing appetite and reducing weight. Start off by switching out 40g of LCT for 40g MCT and youll see a tremendous difference in how you function and how you feel. Low carb or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    Coconut oil is better than butter for frying,, it doesn't break down with heat,, longer chain fatty acids break down molecularly with heat and turn toxic...with that in mind, for cardiovascular health, it is healthier to eat cooked butter than cooked olive oil,, cooked coconut oil is even healthier,, but raw olive oil is best,, I put two tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil in my morning protein shake.. it helps me to keep a good hdl /Ldl ratio,,, we all know with AAS's, that's one of our biggest challenges ... why exacerbate the problem with unnecessary short chain fats,,
    Yes the smoke point on EVCO is much better and due to it being a saturated fat its a little more stable then the other oils (n-3/6/9). Those omega fats have double bonds which when cooked long enough will be hydrogenated (completely saturated) or partially hydrogenated (trans fat). This can be prevented by using some water every so often in the pan to help increase the smoke point.

    Due the MCTs being cholesterol neutral, and other fats like palmitic and stearic acid (both of which saturated), it is shown that they arent completely digested. They are excreted and thus studies in humans show they are cholesterol neutral. The lauric acid may even aid in cholesterol increase (from coconut oil).

    Stearic acid is a fat that when the body doesnt have enough of other fats can be converted to n-9 fats. Strange right? well the reason i believe this is, is due to saturation of fatty acid types in the adipose tissue causing the body to create a fat (from stearic acid) that it needs to aid functionality. But im not 100% sure

    Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    I should have been more specific, you're right. MCT's have a greater immediate bioavailability as an energy source than LCT's and, so, have a lower likelyhood of being stored in the form of body fat when timed and dosed properly. This quality makes them, in my opinion, a better choice for fat supplimentation than olive oil, but by no means a replacement for dietary fats from whole foods (my favorite being whole eggs).
    If your going to add in extra fats over you caloric maintence i would recommend doing so with Coconut oil rather then a LCT. Ive have GREAT success with all my clients doing this. espeically on FAT REFEEDS during a ketogenic diet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Yup yup and there's also the issue of what else you ate that meal, what your current energy needs are, current glycogen stores are, how your metabolism naturally reacts to fats (some preferentialy burn carbs), etc...
    This is tru as well

    Carbs contribute little to de novo lipogenesis in humans. A point ive been trying to make for past few months ive been posting about it. Carbs are lipogenic in presence of fats, and over consumption of calories, along with in multiple meals per day (more then 3).


    Fat is more easily stored as fat. So if your going over in you caloric intake, dont have the majority of it in fats (unless MCT) , UNLESS carbs are lower to lower malonyl CoA content. When M-CoA is high its sets a adipogenic message across the board. M-CoA is high in presence of high liver glycogen. Couple that with increased carbs causing a rise in Akt, and other adipogenic hormones/ anabolic hormones, you can cause weight gain even more (when there is multiple meals a day involving carbs, and overage in calories).


    just some food for thought.

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    Killer post SS, thanks

    Only disputable point: ""Carbs are lipogenic in presence of fats (agreed), and over consumption of calories (agreed), along with in multiple meals per day (more then 3)."

    Perhaps that was a simple guideline, but not sure the meal quantity (3) is relevant.
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    meal timing is definetly relavent. optimal nutritional timing is the best way to control things.

    Takes about 3 hours for insulin levels to come back to normal, 4 hours for leptin to return back to normal.

    If insulin is consistently raised, it may set the stage for a resistance in leptin signaling, and increases cholesterol production. The increase in Akt aids in adipocyte maturation and differentiation.

    When considering a carbohydrates in diet especially during an off season or bulking diet you really need to be careful with consecutive carbohydrate containing meals. This is obviously to prevent the the resistance to leptin and insulin. This usually isnt a problem in leaner individuals, but is seen much more consistently in those 15% and higher. They bulk properly with the calories, however they see more fat gain then muscle gain, or a poor ration of muscle to fat gain.

    Its a problem that is seen far to often. From what i have seen there are better ways to go about all these problems. and this is one of them.

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    Coconut for Frying: Agreed, they are vastly superior.

    Coconut for HDL levels/Cardiovasular Health: With respect to your comment about healthy HDL levels and using Olive Oil in your protein shakes for optimal lipid levels, I would argue Fish Oils as having a superior effect (with Olive POil still beign sa healthy adjunct). That said, monounsaturated fats are excellent sources of fats for a variety of other issues that Fish Oils are not. One more reason to get ALL your fat sources in excpet for trans-fatty acids. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0504142925.htm

    Coconut For HDL:
    Though coconut oil is 90% saturated fat (compared to around 50% in beef, butter, and lard), a larger percentage is what’s called lauric acid, which boosts HDL more than palmitic acid, the saturated fat found predominantly in meat and dairy products. So as saturated fats go, coconut oil is preferable

    Coconut for Energy Levels: There is little argument that MCT oils are an excellent source of energy w/o the elevation in insulin from carbs so theoretically, a heightened level of fat-burning might be achieved.

    However, I do recall a study or anecdotal reports whereby athletes were using MCT oils pre-training and within days, the body rendered it useless as an energy source! It's as if the body attentuated it that quickly. I am still trying to locate the actual study. Don't quote me as I am going off of memory which stinks these days. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    Coconut oil is better than butter for frying,, it doesn't break down with heat,, longer chain fatty acids break down molecularly with heat and turn toxic...with that in mind, for cardiovascular health, it is healthier to eat cooked butter than cooked olive oil,, cooked coconut oil is even healthier,, but raw olive oil is best,, I put two tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil in my morning protein shake.. it helps me to keep a good hdl /Ldl ratio,,, we all know with AAS's, that's one of our biggest challenges ... why exacerbate the problem with unnecessary short chain fats,,
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    Did you read the part about feccal fat? LOL
    Apparently the digestability of Cocoa Butter fats is a slight issue.

    Nothing like oily diarhea

    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    another pretty awesome study but on cocoa butter, which i make my home made chocolate bars with (found in recipe section of this forum)

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/50/5/983.long
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked
    Did you read the part about feccal fat? LOL
    Apparently the digestability of Cocoa Butter fats is a slight issue.

    Nothing like oily diarhea
    Remember Olestra and "fat free" potato chips that actually had this undigestable fat in them. Warning on the bag said "may cause oily discharge"

    F-ING sick. Lol.

    I'm not sure how keto-ers do it, I'm at <200 carbs and 130g fat today and I'm not sure I could do it too often. I've been getting some bad carb bloat so I'm trying to get a couple low carb days in to even it out a little. Also thought that being on some test boosters, higher fat would give me more raw materials to make those molecules with. No sense boosting the body's desire to make test without giving it plenty of fat to make it with, right?
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    Yup yup

    Im a low carber too. No better way to get lean (for me)
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    That fecal fat is negligable. Your more likely to get diarrhea from evco then cacao butter. I've noticed harder stools with that keto bar

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    Good to know. I need to get some cacao butter before I can make this darn recipe! lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked
    Coconut for Frying: Agreed, they are vastly superior.

    Coconut for HDL levels/Cardiovasular Health: With respect to your comment about healthy HDL levels and using Olive Oil in your protein shakes for optimal lipid levels, I would argue Fish Oils as having a superior effect (with Olive POil still beign sa healthy adjunct). That said, monounsaturated fats are excellent sources of fats for a variety of other issues that Fish Oils are not. One more reason to get ALL your fat sources in excpet for trans-fatty acids. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0504142925.htm

    Coconut For HDL: Though coconut oil is 90% saturated fat (compared to around 50% in beef, butter, and lard), a larger percentage is what's called lauric acid, which boosts HDL more than palmitic acid, the saturated fat found predominantly in meat and dairy products. So as saturated fats go, coconut oil is preferable

    Coconut for Energy Levels: There is little argument that MCT oils are an excellent source of energy w/o the elevation in insulin from carbs so theoretically, a heightened level of fat-burning might be achieved.

    However, I do recall a study or anecdotal reports whereby athletes were using MCT oils pre-training and within days, the body rendered it useless as an energy source! It's as if the body attentuated it that quickly. I am still trying to locate the actual study. Don't quote me as I am going off of memory which stinks these days. LOL
    I also put cod liver and grapeseed oils in my shake,,, about two tablespoons of each,, 6 tablespoons of oil total

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    Bro - I need to thank you. This stuff is one of the YUMMIEST things I have had in ages! It blows regular EVCO out of the water!

    Like you said, spoon it right out of the jar and it's like dessert! It's like comparing a filet mignon to a burger.

    No clue how what they do to this stuff b/c it's only ingredient is coconut but man this stuff tastes amazing!

    I also just bought this too! (from web site) - cant wait to try. http://www.artisanafoods.com/products/cacao-bliss


    Quote Originally Posted by 1newbie View Post
    Coconut oil lovers - try the Artisana brand of coconut butter (not their coconut oil) sold at whole foods. It is coconut oil blended with the coconut meat (7g carbs in 2 tbsp.) it tastes amazing straight out of the jar, like a desert......
    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
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    ive never seen cocoa butter where do u find it?

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    can you find coconut butter in stores too or jsut online?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    can you find coconut butter in stores too or jsut online?
    looks liek only online has it.. That artisan link i believe has it.

    This chocolate bar is BANANAs. Seriously. When im done with this batch im going to try strawberry protein powder instead of vanilla to see how it tastes.

    you can also add shaved coconut, or almonds in there for a little different texture, lots to do with it. Ill probably end up adding som flax seed for some crunch.

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    Amazon.com or Whole Foods

    Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    can you find coconut butter in stores too or jsut online?
    I still need to buy cacao and cocoa butter

    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    looks liek only online has it.. That artisan link i believe has it.

    This chocolate bar is BANANAs. Seriously. When im done with this batch im going to try strawberry protein powder instead of vanilla to see how it tastes.

    you can also add shaved coconut, or almonds in there for a little different texture, lots to do with it. Ill probably end up adding som flax seed for some crunch.
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
    Proverbs 1:7

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    http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals..../merchant.mvc?

    Cacao Butter, and other things...

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