The "You need to eat more" never ending debate

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    The "You need to eat more" never ending debate


    Ok, so this is something I have noticed lately and it is EXTRMELLY annoying.

    Everyday there is a new question in the forums, with someone saying they are trying to bulk but are not making any gains... Or that they have taken in X amount of calories and still they are not making gains, that they have taken 10000 supplements and no gains... And everytime the response is the same: "Eat more". What's your nutrition like?

    And it seems as they are never happy with that answer, it's always "Oh no, I eat plenty... I consume about 5k calories a day!" Well... Great for you! Then I guess we have no issues here; if you are consuming enough calories, working out right, then you HAVE to be gaining some size, there is just no ifs ands or buts about it. Right?

    But no, they claim they eat plenty, they workout plenty, yet they don't make gains... Ok, I guess genetics suck, some people complain about eating 6k calories a day and not gaining and I will bi-tch about eating 3k and not losing due to a slow metabolism... I'm happy for you that you are able to consume 6k calories and not become a blob of fat like I would, but that doesn't change the fact, if you are eating all that much and still not gaining, it still means one thing: you are not eating enough so that YOUR BODY can grow...

    I don't understand, what do they expect for someone to say? "Bros, please help, I'm not growing, I'm doing everything right!" Well, cool, if you are doing everything right, then patience cause it will come. Are they expecting "Oh, I know EXACTLY what you need... take this supp, you will pack 30lbs overnight"

    Anyways, it's a Monday, I'm at work, I'm frustrated, and just wanted to have a quick vent session. Back to normal now!
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    Most of them just want some extra push to make the jump to steroids, or for someone else to say "yes, steroids will be the only way you gain anything"
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    Man... It sounds like you need to eat something, lol

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    i used to think that about the people on this forum also (when i first joined). it really ticked me off. i would ask about a supplement and people would say "well how is your diet" and i would respond like "im not asking about diet. im asking about a freakin supplement"...anyways, but they are right. i GUARANTEE if people arent making any gains and they "claim" to be eating enough, they probably arent. and if they are eating enough cals, they prob arent the right kinds of foods like tons of eggs and chicken and oatmeal.
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    I've found that most of them are just eating like 2k and relying on weight gainer shakes for the other 3k.
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    my favorite was still the one dude who said he was taking in 10,000 calories a day. When he broke down his diet, he was taking 2 "Weight Gainer 4000" shakes a day and counted them as 4000 calories each. his actual total was more like 2800.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    my favorite was still the one dude who said he was taking in 10,000 calories a day. When he broke down his diet, he was taking 2 "Weight Gainer 4000" shakes a day and counted them as 4000 calories each. his actual total was more like 2800.
    WOW!! That's funny

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    hahaha thats crazy. that right there proves it
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    i used to think that about the people on this forum also (when i first joined). it really ticked me off. i would ask about a supplement and people would say "well how is your diet" and i would respond like "im not asking about diet. im asking about a freakin supplement"...anyways, but they are right. i GUARANTEE if people arent making any gains and they "claim" to be eating enough, they probably arent. and if they are eating enough cals, they prob arent the right kinds of foods like tons of eggs and chicken and oatmeal.
    You sound cranky. My guess would be that you didn't eat enough today.
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    hahaha
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    Like EZ said, these guys probably just need that extra push to go to the darkside. They're probably using what we say here as justification to start using steroids without even getting they're diet and training tuned in. It's simple, really. Eat, train, sleep, sh!t, then repeat. If you take in a surplus of cals and train hard, you'll gain. If you take in a deficit of cals, you'll lose. Simple.
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    maybe its your training o_O
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    Here's one, 5'9 + 134lbs he "needed" to run a cycle of halo for 2 weeks at 75mg and 4 at 100mg to make it to 150....

    I need to bulk up as much as possible
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    "how many protein shakes should i take a day bro? I am already taking like 6 muscle milk shakes and a chicken breast each day... but its all clean."

    "Ur not eating enough.."


    "No way man, i eat a LOT, i had 3 hamburgers the other day!"

    "GTFO"
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    I eat clean and take in roughly 3500-4000 calories daily.. but 2k of this is mass gainer, 4 scoops in one shake = 1k calories, I am honestly just wondering why this would be bad? Can someone either explain here or pm me about it? I know I'm going to get flamed because I'm not a diet expert, I know basics and that's about it.
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    I remember a guy coming up to me in the gym once asking about it. He said he wasn't making gains. I asked him how his diet was. Turns out his PW meal was alcohol...

    Anyway with most people I find they are just guessing their calories. Or they have been doing the same workout for a year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiberish View Post
    I remember a guy coming up to me in the gym once asking about it. He said he wasn't making gains. I asked him how his diet was. Turns out his PW meal was alcohol...
    LOL Classic! You didn't hear? Beer with 50g of whey post workout is the best! LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtterrible View Post
    I eat clean and take in roughly 3500-4000 calories daily.. but 2k of this is mass gainer, 4 scoops in one shake = 1k calories, I am honestly just wondering why this would be bad? Can someone either explain here or pm me about it? I know I'm going to get flamed because I'm not a diet expert, I know basics and that's about it.
    its mostly that overall powdered/liquid calories don't seem as effective as solid food calories. if you had instead say 12oz of cottage cheese plus 2 pbj sandwiches for the same 1000 calories it would likely be way more effective. its digestion time, elimination time, a bunch of things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanakafarian View Post
    LOL Classic! You didn't hear? Beer with 50g of whey post workout is the best! LOL
    strangely enough, I met a couple pros who OCCASIONALLY have a beer as a PWO drink during contest prep. not regularly though It feels good plus causes a pretty instant pop in vascularity so helps give them a good idea where they are at.
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    Arnold drank beer pwo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakerderek0 View Post
    Arnold drank beer pwo.
    I thought that was just a general thing, don't we all?

    And to the fact, yes, the whole "I need steroids to grow", it is ridiculous... And here I am, trying to cut, staying below maintenance, and I still manage to pack on pounds... A lot of muscle, and then some chubness. I guess I should be the one to start drinking solely weight gainers

    How is it so hard to just down some nuts, avocadoes, or a bowl of spageti?
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    I'm one of those cases, but I still manage to gain at leas 1lb/week...
    My diet is like:

    Morning 8-10pm
    - Omelet or Scrambled Eggs (3-4 eggs + slice of cheese & ham or bacon) or sometimes I change to a Tuna Sandwich
    - Protein shake (2 raw eggs, 1 cup of lowfat yogurt, true mass, whole milk)
    - Salad (tomato, lettuce, celery, onion and others)
    - Fist of peanuts
    - 1 Banana
    - About 1 liter of water

    Lunch (12-3pm)
    - Full meal; could be whole grain pasta, chicken cutlets, steak, pasta salad, etc...
    - Salad again
    - Drink water
    - Maybe a Banana if I'm not full

    Snack (5-6pm)
    - Protein Bars
    - Peanuts
    - Protein shake

    Dinner (9-10pm)
    - Full meal (refer to Lunch options)
    - Salad
    - More water

    Before bed (11-12pm)
    - Protein Shake (cassein protein slow digesting)
    - Peanuts
    - Xtend supplement (only if im sore)

    I'm also taking Multivitamins from CVS (One a Day).

    I'm 155, 5'9 and probably the biggest HARD GAINER on Earth... I go through these days feeling like ****, can't even sleep at night, stomach pains and digestive problems (sometimes only) taking around 4-6k calories a day to gain 1lb a week... my metabolism is a MONSTER, if I skip 1-2 meals through the day I lose 1-2 lbs OVERNIGHT. That's how serious it is...

    But I'm not like all those people "I DONT GAIN ANYTHING!" I actually put a lot of effort cooking and making my own meals and making sure I have a calorie intake over 3000cals but I guess my maintenance is like 3500 no idea...

    I even add junk food to my diet, I get the McChicken + McDouble from McDonalds.. each one has about +15gs of protein and +400cals I get them sometimes for my "snack" meal.

    For those desperate hard gainers... EAT MORE! If I could eat more I would but at the end of the day my stomachs dying and I feel like throwing up all the time besides getting the worst sleep and sick nightmares.

    MY ADVICE, EAT TILL YOU WANNA THROW UP! and if your throw up comes up your throat, force it down
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    Quote Originally Posted by diegone View Post
    I'm one of those cases, but I still manage to gain at leas 1lb/week...
    My diet is like:

    Morning 8-10pm
    - Omelet or Scrambled Eggs (3-4 eggs + slice of cheese & ham or bacon) or sometimes I change to a Tuna Sandwich
    - Protein shake (2 raw eggs, 1 cup of lowfat yogurt, true mass, whole milk)
    - Salad (tomato, lettuce, celery, onion and others)
    - Fist of peanuts
    - 1 Banana
    - About 1 liter of water

    Lunch (12-3pm)
    - Full meal; could be whole grain pasta, chicken cutlets, steak, pasta salad, etc...
    - Salad again
    - Drink water
    - Maybe a Banana if I'm not full

    Snack (5-6pm)
    - Protein Bars
    - Peanuts
    - Protein shake

    Dinner (9-10pm)
    - Full meal (refer to Lunch options)
    - Salad
    - More water

    Before bed (11-12pm)
    - Protein Shake (cassein protein slow digesting)
    - Peanuts
    - Xtend supplement (only if im sore)

    I'm also taking Multivitamins from CVS (One a Day).

    I'm 155, 5'9 and probably the biggest HARD GAINER on Earth... I go through these days feeling like ****, can't even sleep at night, stomach pains and digestive problems (sometimes only) taking around 4-6k calories a day to gain 1lb a week... my metabolism is a MONSTER, if I skip 1-2 meals through the day I lose 1-2 lbs OVERNIGHT. That's how serious it is...

    But I'm not like all those people "I DONT GAIN ANYTHING!" I actually put a lot of effort cooking and making my own meals and making sure I have a calorie intake over 3000cals but I guess my maintenance is like 3500 no idea...

    I even add junk food to my diet, I get the McChicken + McDouble from McDonalds.. each one has about +15gs of protein and +400cals I get them sometimes for my "snack" meal.

    For those desperate hard gainers... EAT MORE! If I could eat more I would but at the end of the day my stomachs dying and I feel like throwing up all the time besides getting the worst sleep and sick nightmares.

    MY ADVICE, EAT TILL YOU WANNA THROW UP! and if your throw up comes up your throat, force it down
    Yes, I know how you feel when you say eat till you throw up. When I'm bulking on cycle, I have to force feed myself to the point that I'll eat 1/4 gallon of ice cream a day just to force those extra cals. It gets to the point where I don't enjoy food anymore

    Your post should be quoted everytime we get one of those, "I can't gain weight?" threads!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanakafarian View Post
    Yes, I know how you feel when you say eat till you throw up. When I'm bulking on cycle, I have to force feed myself to the point that I'll eat 1/4 gallon of ice cream a day just to force those extra cals. It gets to the point where I don't enjoy food anymore

    Your post should be quoted everytime we get one of those, "I can't gain weight?" threads!
    Thank you! Specially because all the people that open those posts are usually teenagers around 16-18 that all they eat is the food their mommy cooked probably 3 meals and that's it. When people tells them EAT MORE! They add 1 sandwich to their diet and they think they should be gaining weight...

    Everyone has a diff calorie intake, you need to know yours, I know mine for a fact needs like 3000-3500 for maintenance, but those calories are SO MUCH for such a small frame that I am, I eat salads all the time to stretch out my stomach.

    NO PAIN, NO GAIN. Everything has a cost, and the key to success is MOTIVATION, if you have that, then nothing will stop you from achieving your goals. I never thought getting big would be this bad? Neither I thought it was gonna be easy, but no matter what I'll keep eating till I reach my goal.
    By the way I'm only 8% BF at 155lbs 5'9, I'm eating mostly anything at this point even if I higher my BF to 10-12% it's still fine, I can probably cut 3-4% of BF in less than 2 weeks with cardio and proper diet.

    Those of you who claim to be hardgainers there's a problem with your routine, either you're not getting enough calories or your training program is weak (should be heaviest weight supported for 8-12 reps).

    Any questions I'll be glad to help! My younger brother is also a hardgainer with a frame like me but skinnier (he's 17), he's been following my diet for the past months, he went from 143 to 154 in only 2-3 months. The only supp's he took was True Mass (best weight gainer IMO) and creatine for 1 month, the rest was food + training, he doesn't do Squats or Deadlifts or any mass gainer exercises, I think he's pretty good for a basic workout training program, if you add Squats / Deadlifts etc expect gains to be a lot higher!

    Good luck!
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    To be fair counting calories is not the easiest thing to do and we shouldn't expect it from a beginner. Experienced folk tend to take knowledge for granted and forget how much the average person knows.

    A guy in the gym came up to me and said he wasn't putting on mass but getting a little bit fatter around the waist. When I asked him what his protein intake was like he said something like "my protein intake is really high, I eat at least half a loaf of bread per day". When I asked him about his other sources of protein he said that was it and he relies on it because he heard it was a good source. He had good intentions and had researched things but had been misinformed by someone and had stuck with it.

    Lets give them a little patience and help the brotherhood. We all lack knowledge on certain subjects when compared with someone else. We would like patience with it I am sure.
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    I dunno, with the nutrition labeling requirements and the internet, it really isn't rocket science.
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    I agree with you, sometimes i get annoyed when friends tell me they are eating mountains per day but they cant gain any weight. They list their meals and i laugh and say then eat more. One thing ive noticed is that with people who arent as serious about the gym "beginners" have such sporadic diets that what they are telling you they ate today or yesterday doesn't matter worth a **** because the day before they had a bowl of cereal in the AM, and a box of cheese its before bed, or they didn't get a chance to eat breakfast or lunch etc. I think they want me to say something like, dude you are just abnormal, you defy all logic and your body should be studied by ****ing NASA.
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    yea, and probably half of the cals from the shakes are going in the toilet too lol
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    Lets look at this objectively.

    How many people here think they have an ideal diet for them? They are sitting at <10% body fat naturally and have never ever hit a fat loss or muscle building plateau because they are on so on point?

    Lets say a beginner goes to great lengths to research and spends one day reading articles by Eric Serrano, Jeffrey Bland, Paul Chek, John Berardi, Charles Poliquin and Dave Tate they still wouldn't know what is correct because so many different views are being put across.

    Until the smartest minds in the field get together and write a book called "The Nutrition Gospel" and they all agree it is exactly correct and no other research developments in the field will ever come out it is safe to say opinions will vary. If you asked everyone in this thread via pm their calorie, protein and carb equations for a 200lb man how many different answers would you get?

    We don't know it all and have the right to ask questions. They don't know it all and can say the same.

    I answer questions that some people consider basic because if I want to know how much S-Methylmethionine is in one raw white cabbage, the mycotoxin content of your average jar of peanut butter or the short term vitamin A recommendation for someone suffering from an ulcerative condition I am going to ask someone who knows more than me. I would appreciate it if they shared their knowledge and didn't say "the data is out there, look for yourself".

    This forum is free for people to ask questions, there is no filter questionnaire where you have to have certain qualifications or knowledge base to be here.

    I had a question answered for free by Charles Poliquin this week. He charges $600 for a 30 minute phone call last time I checked.

    Are we really being so arrogant that we are too important to help out others when one of the experts in the field is more than happy to answer a question from little old me?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    Lets look at this objectively.

    How many people here think they have an ideal diet for them? They are sitting at <10% body fat naturally and have never ever hit a fat loss or muscle building plateau because they are on so on point?
    I'm not even close. Although i haven't hit plateuas, my progress is slow. Its probably all the alcohol.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    Lets say a beginner goes to great lengths to research and spends one day reading articles by Eric Serrano, Jeffrey Bland, Paul Chek, John Berardi, Charles Poliquin and Dave Tate they still wouldn't know what is correct because so many different views are being put across.

    Until the smartest minds in the field get together and write a book called "The Nutrition Gospel" and they all agree it is exactly correct and no other research developments in the field will ever come out it is safe to say opinions will vary. If you asked everyone in this thread via pm their calorie, protein and carb equations for a 200lb man how many different answers would you get?
    Well, I had a long conversation one time with Hugo Rivera about this, and the real answer is that we are all different, and so the only thing you can do is rigorously follow a predefinied structure (whatever it is). Log the details meticulously, follow the rules of the diet (or workout) meticulously and then at the end of teh 4 or 8 weeks review progress. Your insulin sensitivity is different than mine, your leptin levels are different than mine, your ability to deal with strong hunger pangs is different than mine, your ability to eat when not hungry at all is different than mine. So only by the experimentation do you find what really works well for your own individual body chemistry.

    Soooooo when the "hardgainers" repeatedly come on looking for the easy answer (steroids) it does get tiring to tell them "eat more" and get into that same argument over and over again.

    For me its reaching the point like when I try to help regular people lose fat.

    me - "you need to eat more vegetables, less breads + pasta"
    them - "but I don't like eating vegetables"
    me - "then either learn to like eating vegetables, or learn to like being fat"
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    I'll paraphrase Wendler here: the worst part of the internet is that it makes too much information available. Most people have forgotten the 2 most important elements to training: lifting heavy ass weight and critical thinking. If you're getting hurt or not making progress, then you need to sit down and analyze what needs to be changed.
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    Wow, reading posts like these make me wanna kill my metabolism...

    I usually SPLIT 4 eggs between Breakfast and Lunch (omelette made with Ham, Salami, Bacon and Cheese) and I still have a hard time losing weight keeping below my maintenance level.

    Mind you, I weigh 235lbs. And reading someone who is below the 170 mark that is eating like crazy and having problems bulking is insane. Bodies ARE really different from one to the next, holy balls.

    At 3500 cals a day I would probably just maintain, perhaps even gain a few lbs. And that isn't quite my maintenance level!

    It is insane, just insane.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bla55 View Post
    Wow, reading posts like these make me wanna kill my metabolism...

    I usually SPLIT 4 eggs between Breakfast and Lunch (omelette made with Ham, Salami, Bacon and Cheese) and I still have a hard time losing weight keeping below my maintenance level.
    LOL I eat 6 eggs, 1lbs of bacon (yup, an entire 16oz package), and 2 whole wheat toast for breakfast on my first day-off! Sorry, didn't mean to rub it in.
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    It is truly insane.

    The funny thing is, yeah, I have plenty of meals and counting them all up I get to about 3000 cals a day. But that should not be nearly enough for someone my size. Yet, it is how it goes.

    When I'm on a bulk I go for 4k calories and I gain a lot of weight, all around. Right now I'm on a 300 cal deficit and running Androhard and I've put on 4lbs since I've started (mind you, 40 min cardio about 3x a week!) Talk about crazy sh!t
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    Quote Originally Posted by bla55 View Post
    It is truly insane.

    The funny thing is, yeah, I have plenty of meals and counting them all up I get to about 3000 cals a day. But that should not be nearly enough for someone my size. Yet, it is how it goes.

    When I'm on a bulk I go for 4k calories and I gain a lot of weight, all around. Right now I'm on a 300 cal deficit and running Androhard and I've put on 4lbs since I've started (mind you, 40 min cardio about 3x a week!) Talk about crazy sh!t
    Like you said though, at least your grocery bill isn't too bad. Bacon is expensive these days!!
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    There are three "canned" statements that make me want to puke.

    1. No gains eat more. Of course I can gain if I eat more. The purpose of the supp is to improve calorie and protien utilization without increasing calories.

    2. You can't loose weight. Our product only works on a calorie defecit diet. Of course it does. All weight loss products work on a calorie reduction diet.

    3. No gains, "not all products work for everyone". If I give 10 people Deca (in the proper amounts) all ten will make gains. Some more than others, but all will gain. If a product works, it works for nearly everyone. There may be a few, due to lack of training intensity or poor diet that may make very little progress but all will see positive results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    There are three "canned" statements that make me want to puke.

    1. No gains eat more. Of course I can gain if I eat more. The purpose of the supp is to improve calorie and protien utilization without increasing calories.
    but when someone is 6' tall, weighs 155 and says "no matter what I eat I can't gain a single pound" the problem is their eating. And making gains without adding calories is a joke besides, as you'll lose those gains afterwards since your maintenance calories will have gone up with the extra mass, but your intake won't have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanakafarian View Post
    LOL I eat 6 eggs, 1lbs of bacon (yup, an entire 16oz package), and 2 whole wheat toast for breakfast on my first day-off! Sorry, didn't mean to rub it in.
    1 lb of bacon... holy **** dude. pretty sure id go comatose right in my chair, fork in hand on the way to my mouth
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    There are three "canned" statements that make me want to puke.

    1. No gains eat more. Of course I can gain if I eat more. The purpose of the supp is to improve calorie and protien utilization without increasing calories.

    2. You can't loose weight. Our product only works on a calorie defecit diet. Of course it does. All weight loss products work on a calorie reduction diet.

    3. No gains, "not all products work for everyone". If I give 10 people Deca (in the proper amounts) all ten will make gains. Some more than others, but all will gain. If a product works, it works for nearly everyone. There may be a few, due to lack of training intensity or poor diet that may make very little progress but all will see positive results.
    Well, those "canned" responses are the truth... Most people don't want the truth though.

    Most people want to receive an easy answer like "How do I bulk?" - "Well, take this steroid with no side effects and no need for PCT and it is a guaranteed 25lb after one month". Life would be great if it was like that, now wouldn't it? But in reality, supps won't do any miracles for you. They will help but there is no supp on the market that will make you grow unless you eat and train correctly.

    No supp will help you lose weight unless your caloric intake is well... No one is going to give the quick answer everyone wants "Well, take 1000mg of clen a day and you'll be golden!". No fat loss supp will make you lose your weight unless you clean up your nutrition and get your a$$ to the gym and on a treadmill...
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