Thicker/V Taper back

  1. Board Sponsor
    R1balla's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  0 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    12,120
    Rep Power
    4366771
    Level
    90
    Lv. Percent
    29.87%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Thicker/V Taper back


    my buddy i train with wants a thicker back (more of a V). i told him to lift heavy with V bar pulldown, lat pulldown, rows and pullups. this isnt working for him. i know diet plays a key role. he eats good and alot of it. anything else i could tell him to accomplish his goals? he wants to do this naturally.
    Hardcore Supps for the Hardcore Trainer
    Use Discount Code AM20 To Save 20% At www.ironflexsupps.com



  2. New Member
    CodyK7's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  204 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    213
    Rep Power
    182
    Level
    13
    Lv. Percent
    33.76%

    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    my buddy i train with wants a thicker back (more of a V). i told him to lift heavy with V bar pulldown, lat pulldown, rows and pullups. this isnt working for him. i know diet plays a key role. he eats good and alot of it. anything else i could tell him to accomplish his goals? he wants to do this naturally.
    Something I started doing when doing wide grip pulldowns was going with less weight and really trying to get that bar down to my chest and squeeze those shoulder blades. If he can have him try behind the neck pulldowns. Some people say this is bad for your shoulders but I never go really deep and I've never had problems with mine.
  3. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,546
    Rep Power
    1213213
    Level
    93
    Lv. Percent
    58.36%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    How's his form? Most people have really, really ****ty form on back.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

    •   
       

  4. New Member
    Ironhyde's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    183
    Rep Power
    150
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    53.86%

    Is he more narrow or thick waisted? This will be a big determining factor in how much of a v-taper he attains. If he is thick waisted, then it will be hard to see a very dramatic v-taper unless he is really lean. Even then it will not be as drastic as someone with a small waist. This is something else that genetics play a key role in as well. Not everyone can grow a really wide back, while others grow a back that looks like a barn door. Rodja is also correct about form. I see people doing lat pulldowns with their torso horizontal with the floor. Contrary to popular belief in the ILS (inflated lat syndrome) club, this would be incorrect. If a person has to heave the weight down and can't "pull" it down, lighten the weight and work on pulling with your back, not your biceps or the momentum of your body you get by rocking back and forth like a goon.
  5. Board Sponsor
    R1balla's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  0 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    12,120
    Rep Power
    4366771
    Level
    90
    Lv. Percent
    29.87%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    How's his form? Most people have really, really ****ty form on back.
    he trains with me most of the time so he has great form. i dunno what to tell him other than to juice lol
    Hardcore Supps for the Hardcore Trainer
    Use Discount Code AM20 To Save 20% At www.ironflexsupps.com


  6. Board Sponsor
    R1balla's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  0 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    12,120
    Rep Power
    4366771
    Level
    90
    Lv. Percent
    29.87%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhyde View Post
    Is he more narrow or thick waisted? This will be a big determining factor in how much of a v-taper he attains. If he is thick waisted, then it will be hard to see a very dramatic v-taper unless he is really lean. Even then it will not be as drastic as someone with a small waist. This is something else that genetics play a key role in as well. Not everyone can grow a really wide back, while others grow a back that looks like a barn door. Rodja is also correct about form. I see people doing lat pulldowns with their torso horizontal with the floor. Contrary to popular belief in the ILS (inflated lat syndrome) club, this would be incorrect. If a person has to heave the weight down and can't "pull" it down, lighten the weight and work on pulling with your back, not your biceps or the momentum of your body you get by rocking back and forth like a goon.

    so are you saying perfect form is not swaying at all? im not saying your wrong, i just always see jay cutler, ronnie...etc sway a little bit at least.
    Hardcore Supps for the Hardcore Trainer
    Use Discount Code AM20 To Save 20% At www.ironflexsupps.com


  7. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,546
    Rep Power
    1213213
    Level
    93
    Lv. Percent
    58.36%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    he trains with me most of the time so he has great form. i dunno what to tell him other than to juice lol
    Hardly compelling evidence. What's his ratio of chest:back strength (BP:BB Rows)?
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  8. Board Sponsor
    R1balla's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  0 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    12,120
    Rep Power
    4366771
    Level
    90
    Lv. Percent
    29.87%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    i dont understand that question....he benches what i bench. about 265x3. barbell row bent over about 185x8 if that helps...he DB bentover rows like 80x10 or 12

    he is gonna email me pics of himself he took 2 or 3 months ago so u guys can ciritique him
    Hardcore Supps for the Hardcore Trainer
    Use Discount Code AM20 To Save 20% At www.ironflexsupps.com


  9. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,546
    Rep Power
    1213213
    Level
    93
    Lv. Percent
    58.36%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    He needs to strengthen his back. Ideally, they should be even.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  10. Elite Member
    suncloud's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  201 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Age
    37
    Posts
    6,352
    Rep Power
    3263
    Level
    52
    Lv. Percent
    30.96%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    your friend i assume has issues developing lats. welcome to the club. i've tried damned near every exercise to target them and mine won't grow easily. finally found that there's a type of hammer strength lat pulldown machine that hits them pretty good. nothing else has really targeted them for me - not chins, rack chins, pullups, pulldowns, etc.

    basically, you (he) has got to figure out what part of the back he wants to train. if that part isn't sore the next day, it was done wrong....
  11. Board Sponsor
    R1balla's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  0 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    12,120
    Rep Power
    4366771
    Level
    90
    Lv. Percent
    29.87%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    which HS machine are u talking about? i dont care if ppl say only free weights, HS machines rock!
    Hardcore Supps for the Hardcore Trainer
    Use Discount Code AM20 To Save 20% At www.ironflexsupps.com


  12. Elite Member
    suncloud's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  201 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Age
    37
    Posts
    6,352
    Rep Power
    3263
    Level
    52
    Lv. Percent
    30.96%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    which HS machine are u talking about? i dont care if ppl say only free weights, HS machines rock!
    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEYD9r4uy7s&feature=re lated"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]



    for my lat development, this guys form doesn't work. when you pull the weight down - pull the weight down as far as you can and pause at the bottom of the movement. your arms should be parallel to your ribs at this point. slowly release the weights back up. with me (and everyone is different here) the last foot of the movement is the most important part - i can feel my lats taking a hit. beyond that movement - when the weights are at the top, all the way to my arms parallel with my head my delts seem to be doing all the work.
  13. New Member
    Ironhyde's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    183
    Rep Power
    150
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    53.86%

    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    so are you saying perfect form is not swaying at all? im not saying your wrong, i just always see jay cutler, ronnie...etc sway a little bit at least.
    There will be some torso movement that takes place, but I'm primarily talking about the goobers you see that use the momentum from their torso to move the weight. But, IMO, there shouldn't be a ton of movement. If you're training to failure, you can fudge a little on the last few reps to squeeze them out, but if you're rocking back and forth from the first rep, lighten the weight.
  14. Professional Member
    hardknock's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,205
    Rep Power
    18668
    Level
    40
    Lv. Percent
    33.13%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhyde View Post
    There will be some torso movement that takes place, but I'm primarily talking about the goobers you see that use the momentum from their torso to move the weight. But, IMO, there shouldn't be a ton of movement. If you're training to failure, you can fudge a little on the last few reps to squeeze them out, but if you're rocking back and forth from the first rep, lighten the weight.
    I see guys go to the lat machine and look around, pull the pin down to the lower end and try to monkey swing 180-225 up and down like they are having a seizure or something....shiat is truly funny.

    One day I told this guy, I have no idea why, that if you put that on 120 and use slower controlled reps then it will do basically the same as using 200lbs while doing jumping jacks to get the weight down...he did it while i was there and said, "yeh man, i really feel it right here"...i walked to the back and did my final set for shoulders, put my jacket on and walked out. When I walked past the lat machine, he was right back at 200 and swinging it...

    That was the last time I tried to mention anything to anyone.
    ---The internet is the father of the electronic lynch-mob---
  15. Advanced Member
    Ricky5145's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  245 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Age
    26
    Posts
    733
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    21
    Lv. Percent
    21.7%

    try telling your friend to use a reverse grip on his pulldowns and rows. i always used overhand grip and built i decent back with it but it wasnt until i switched to reverse grip that my back blew up in width.

    i also read an article on half deads, liked what i read and put them in my routine, im sure glad i did because after switching from overhand grip to reverse and adding these in my back/chest went from 47 inches to 51 in only a short few months.

    not the end all be all, but it could help
  16. New Member
    Alderslodge's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  187 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    6
    Rep Power
    62
    Level
    2
    Lv. Percent
    40.83%

    I love doing wide grip pull ups. I've done them since I started training 3 years ago and I believe that they are the reason that my back is a lot better than most of my other body parts. I do them EVERYDAY, not tons, but at least 20 to 30.
    Make sure that every reps is from DEAD hang, and try using a thumbless grip to work more back and less of the biceps.
  17. Board Sponsor
    R1balla's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  0 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    12,120
    Rep Power
    4366771
    Level
    90
    Lv. Percent
    29.87%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    thanks guys! we did back today and i showed him this thread and actually we both tried it and we will see how sore we are tomorrow. we didnt try reverse grips yet. question for chest on reverse grip, would u rather do flys or reverse grip bench BB if u had 2 choose
    Hardcore Supps for the Hardcore Trainer
    Use Discount Code AM20 To Save 20% At www.ironflexsupps.com


  18. Advanced Member
    Ricky5145's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  245 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Age
    26
    Posts
    733
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    21
    Lv. Percent
    21.7%

    I'd def rather do fly's, i like the idea of reverse grip bench, but i would never personally add it to my routine. I just like the time tested essentials, bench and flys etc...
  19. Advanced Member
    Jake Fires's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Age
    27
    Posts
    546
    Rep Power
    339
    Level
    19
    Lv. Percent
    20.18%

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky5145 View Post
    try telling your friend to use a reverse grip on his pulldowns and rows. i always used overhand grip and built i decent back with it but it wasnt until i switched to reverse grip that my back blew up in width.

    i also read an article on half deads, liked what i read and put them in my routine, im sure glad i did because after switching from overhand grip to reverse and adding these in my back/chest went from 47 inches to 51 in only a short few months.

    not the end all be all, but it could help
    lol ricky's all about the reverse grip are ya.

    ive been doing the reverse grip shoulder shrugs and seeing results.
    im gonna try the reverse grip pull downs as well.
  20. Advanced Member
    Ricky5145's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  245 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Age
    26
    Posts
    733
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    21
    Lv. Percent
    21.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Fires View Post
    lol ricky's all about the reverse grip are ya.

    ive been doing the reverse grip shoulder shrugs and seeing results.
    im gonna try the reverse grip pull downs as well.

    haha, yeah man i guess i am all about reverse grip. ive just noticed such a sick difference since switching i feel i would be doing a bad thing keeping it secret for myself.
  21. crazyfool405's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  198 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    7,430
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    55
    Lv. Percent
    20.55%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    i personally feel the most from DEAD HANG rack chins.

    or Super wide grip pull ups (never going all the way down bc it strains my shoulders)

    ill superset one exercise with straigh arm pull downs, break up with abs, then repeat then ill do another width exersice, then ill do 1 thickness.

    That has helped emmensly
  22. Board Sponsor
    R1balla's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  0 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    12,120
    Rep Power
    4366771
    Level
    90
    Lv. Percent
    29.87%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    ya rick is all about reverse grip. im guessing u do reverse grip on LHJO? hahahaha jk jk
    Hardcore Supps for the Hardcore Trainer
    Use Discount Code AM20 To Save 20% At www.ironflexsupps.com


  23. New Member
    Ironhyde's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    183
    Rep Power
    150
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    53.86%

    Quote Originally Posted by hardknock View Post
    I see guys go to the lat machine and look around, pull the pin down to the lower end and try to monkey swing 180-225 up and down like they are having a seizure or something....shiat is truly funny.

    One day I told this guy, I have no idea why, that if you put that on 120 and use slower controlled reps then it will do basically the same as using 200lbs while doing jumping jacks to get the weight down...he did it while i was there and said, "yeh man, i really feel it right here"...i walked to the back and did my final set for shoulders, put my jacket on and walked out. When I walked past the lat machine, he was right back at 200 and swinging it...

    That was the last time I tried to mention anything to anyone.
    Bwahahahaha!! Exactly!

    Ego is the biggest enemy against making gains in your training.
  24. New Member
    Ironhyde's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    183
    Rep Power
    150
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    53.86%

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky5145 View Post
    try telling your friend to use a reverse grip on his pulldowns and rows. i always used overhand grip and built i decent back with it but it wasnt until i switched to reverse grip that my back blew up in width.

    i also read an article on half deads, liked what i read and put them in my routine, im sure glad i did because after switching from overhand grip to reverse and adding these in my back/chest went from 47 inches to 51 in only a short few months.

    not the end all be all, but it could help
    Ricky is right. Half deads, or rack pulls, are an excellent exercise as well. I honestly feel like all the deadlifts and rack pulls I've done have contributed to the width of my back more than any pulldown movement, but that's just me.
  25. Advanced Member
    wedlund6's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  264 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Age
    43
    Posts
    583
    Rep Power
    354
    Level
    19
    Lv. Percent
    49.78%

    dead lift heavy. full deads,half deads and throw some "t" bar in there. get off the cables
  26. Advanced Member
    Type O Hero's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  182 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    928
    Rep Power
    90581
    Level
    26
    Lv. Percent
    79.48%

    I started noticing my back developing faster once I started paying more attention to strict technique. Now my general philosophy for back training is to use the most weight possible without sacrificing the best form. So in other words, say you're doing BB rows; whatever your form is using only the bar should be your form when you're using weight. A lot of people jack the weight up and then have to use a total body effort just to pull the weight. If you're trying to impress your boyfriends in the gym, it may work, but probably not. If you're trying to develop a quality back, it definitely won't get you very far. Of course on your really heavy sets a little bit of cheating is inevitable, but you should still keep it to a minimum.

    Also, my upper back appears wider and fuller ever since I've started doing my pull-ups very, very strictly. I pull myself all the way up, then lower myself all the way down to a full stretch. The set ends once my form starts slipping. After any pulldown exercise, I'll usually grab hold of something and stretch out each side for like 10 seconds or so.

    After my back workout is ended, I like hanging from a pull-up bar for as long as I can just to get a great stretch. You could take it once step further and hang using a weight belt. This stretching feels great after a workout.

    The amount of taper you have greatly depends on your development, how lean you are, and your genetics. But a wide back and thicker shoulders definitely help achieve that look. And don't do any obliques exercises where you use weight, such as weighted side bends. The only thing you need for obliques is to add twisting movements to some of your abs exercises, really squeezing your obliques during the twist. Also, standing side twists with a light bar across your back really helps. My obliques are MUCH tighter now than they are in my avatar picture which was taken about 2 years ago.
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Pct or taper off?
    By Chest in forum Post Cycle Therapy
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-11-2010, 01:40 PM
  2. Wide Thicker core
    By Gogreek in forum Training Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-23-2010, 01:00 AM
  3. P.c.t.- A.i.'s, Taper Or Both-?
    By JETHRO in forum Post Cycle Therapy
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-17-2008, 04:02 AM
  4. Is it necessary to taper down toward the end?
    By vinnys025 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-25-2004, 04:57 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in