Thicker/V Taper back

[R1balla]

my buddy i train with wants a thicker back (more of a V). i told him to lift heavy with V bar pulldown, lat pulldown, rows and pullups. this isnt working for him. i know diet plays a key role. he eats good and alot of it. anything else i could tell him to accomplish his goals? he wants to do this naturally.

 

[CodyK7]

my buddy i train with wants a thicker back (more of a V). i told him to lift heavy with V bar pulldown, lat pulldown, rows and pullups. this isnt working for him. i know diet plays a key role. he eats good and alot of it. anything else i could tell him to accomplish his goals? he wants to do this naturally.

Something I started doing when doing wide grip pulldowns was going with less weight and really trying to get that bar down to my chest and squeeze those shoulder blades. If he can have him try behind the neck pulldowns. Some people say this is bad for your shoulders but I never go really deep and I've never had problems with mine.

 

[Rodja]

How's his form? Most people have really, really ****ty form on back.

 

[Ironhyde]

Is he more narrow or thick waisted? This will be a big determining factor in how much of a v-taper he attains. If he is thick waisted, then it will be hard to see a very dramatic v-taper unless he is really lean. Even then it will not be as drastic as someone with a small waist. This is something else that genetics play a key role in as well. Not everyone can grow a really wide back, while others grow a back that looks like a barn door. Rodja is also correct about form. I see people doing lat pulldowns with their torso horizontal with the floor. Contrary to popular belief in the ILS (inflated lat syndrome) club, this would be incorrect. If a person has to heave the weight down and can't "pull" it down, lighten the weight and work on pulling with your back, not your biceps or the momentum of your body you get by rocking back and forth like a goon.

 

[R1balla]

How's his form? Most people have really, really ****ty form on back.

he trains with me most of the time so he has great form. i dunno what to tell him other than to juice lol

 

[R1balla]

Is he more narrow or thick waisted? This will be a big determining factor in how much of a v-taper he attains. If he is thick waisted, then it will be hard to see a very dramatic v-taper unless he is really lean. Even then it will not be as drastic as someone with a small waist. This is something else that genetics play a key role in as well. Not everyone can grow a really wide back, while others grow a back that looks like a barn door. Rodja is also correct about form. I see people doing lat pulldowns with their torso horizontal with the floor. Contrary to popular belief in the ILS (inflated lat syndrome) club, this would be incorrect. If a person has to heave the weight down and can't "pull" it down, lighten the weight and work on pulling with your back, not your biceps or the momentum of your body you get by rocking back and forth like a goon.

so are you saying perfect form is not swaying at all? im not saying your wrong, i just always see jay cutler, ronnie...etc sway a little bit at least.

 

[Rodja]

he trains with me most of the time so he has great form. i dunno what to tell him other than to juice lol

Hardly compelling evidence. What's his ratio of chest:back strength (BP:BB Rows)?

 

[R1balla]

i dont understand that question....he benches what i bench. about 265x3. barbell row bent over about 185x8 if that helps...he DB bentover rows like 80x10 or 12

he is gonna email me pics of himself he took 2 or 3 months ago so u guys can ciritique him

 

[Rodja]

He needs to strengthen his back. Ideally, they should be even.

 

[suncloud]

your friend i assume has issues developing lats. welcome to the club. i've tried damned near every exercise to target them and mine won't grow easily. finally found that there's a type of hammer strength lat pulldown machine that hits them pretty good. nothing else has really targeted them for me - not chins, rack chins, pullups, pulldowns, etc.

basically, you (he) has got to figure out what part of the back he wants to train. if that part isn't sore the next day, it was done wrong....

 

[R1balla]

which HS machine are u talking about? i dont care if ppl say only free weights, HS machines rock!

 

[suncloud]

which HS machine are u talking about? i dont care if ppl say only free weights, HS machines rock!

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEYD9r4uy7s&feature=related"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]



for my lat development, this guys form doesn't work. when you pull the weight down - pull the weight down as far as you can and pause at the bottom of the movement. your arms should be parallel to your ribs at this point. slowly release the weights back up. with me (and everyone is different here) the last foot of the movement is the most important part - i can feel my lats taking a hit. beyond that movement - when the weights are at the top, all the way to my arms parallel with my head my delts seem to be doing all the work.

 

[Ironhyde]

so are you saying perfect form is not swaying at all? im not saying your wrong, i just always see jay cutler, ronnie...etc sway a little bit at least.

There will be some torso movement that takes place, but I'm primarily talking about the goobers you see that use the momentum from their torso to move the weight. But, IMO, there shouldn't be a ton of movement. If you're training to failure, you can fudge a little on the last few reps to squeeze them out, but if you're rocking back and forth from the first rep, lighten the weight.

 

[hardknock]

There will be some torso movement that takes place, but I'm primarily talking about the goobers you see that use the momentum from their torso to move the weight. But, IMO, there shouldn't be a ton of movement. If you're training to failure, you can fudge a little on the last few reps to squeeze them out, but if you're rocking back and forth from the first rep, lighten the weight.

I see guys go to the lat machine and look around, pull the pin down to the lower end and try to monkey swing 180-225 up and down like they are having a seizure or something....shiat is truly funny.

One day I told this guy, I have no idea why, that if you put that on 120 and use slower controlled reps then it will do basically the same as using 200lbs while doing jumping jacks to get the weight down...he did it while i was there and said, "yeh man, i really feel it right here"...i walked to the back and did my final set for shoulders, put my jacket on and walked out. When I walked past the lat machine, he was right back at 200 and swinging it...

That was the last time I tried to mention anything to anyone.

 

[Ricky5145]

try telling your friend to use a reverse grip on his pulldowns and rows. i always used overhand grip and built i decent back with it but it wasnt until i switched to reverse grip that my back blew up in width.

i also read an article on half deads, liked what i read and put them in my routine, im sure glad i did because after switching from overhand grip to reverse and adding these in my back/chest went from 47 inches to 51 in only a short few months.

not the end all be all, but it could help

 

[Alderslodge]

I love doing wide grip pull ups. I've done them since I started training 3 years ago and I believe that they are the reason that my back is a lot better than most of my other body parts. I do them EVERYDAY, not tons, but at least 20 to 30.
Make sure that every reps is from DEAD hang, and try using a thumbless grip to work more back and less of the biceps.

 

[R1balla]

thanks guys! we did back today and i showed him this thread and actually we both tried it and we will see how sore we are tomorrow. we didnt try reverse grips yet. question for chest on reverse grip, would u rather do flys or reverse grip bench BB if u had 2 choose

 

[Ricky5145]

I'd def rather do fly's, i like the idea of reverse grip bench, but i would never personally add it to my routine. I just like the time tested essentials, bench and flys etc...

 

[Jake Fires]

try telling your friend to use a reverse grip on his pulldowns and rows. i always used overhand grip and built i decent back with it but it wasnt until i switched to reverse grip that my back blew up in width.

i also read an article on half deads, liked what i read and put them in my routine, im sure glad i did because after switching from overhand grip to reverse and adding these in my back/chest went from 47 inches to 51 in only a short few months.

not the end all be all, but it could help

lol ricky's all about the reverse grip are ya.

ive been doing the reverse grip shoulder shrugs and seeing results.
im gonna try the reverse grip pull downs as well.

 

[Ricky5145]

lol ricky's all about the reverse grip are ya.

ive been doing the reverse grip shoulder shrugs and seeing results.
im gonna try the reverse grip pull downs as well.

haha, yeah man i guess i am all about reverse grip. ive just noticed such a sick difference since switching i feel i would be doing a bad thing keeping it secret for myself.

 

[crazyfool405]

i personally feel the most from DEAD HANG rack chins.

or Super wide grip pull ups (never going all the way down bc it strains my shoulders)

ill superset one exercise with straigh arm pull downs, break up with abs, then repeat then ill do another width exersice, then ill do 1 thickness.

That has helped emmensly

 

[R1balla]

ya rick is all about reverse grip. im guessing u do reverse grip on LHJO? hahahaha jk jk

 

[Ironhyde]

I see guys go to the lat machine and look around, pull the pin down to the lower end and try to monkey swing 180-225 up and down like they are having a seizure or something....shiat is truly funny.

One day I told this guy, I have no idea why, that if you put that on 120 and use slower controlled reps then it will do basically the same as using 200lbs while doing jumping jacks to get the weight down...he did it while i was there and said, "yeh man, i really feel it right here"...i walked to the back and did my final set for shoulders, put my jacket on and walked out. When I walked past the lat machine, he was right back at 200 and swinging it...

That was the last time I tried to mention anything to anyone.

Bwahahahaha!! Exactly!

Ego is the biggest enemy against making gains in your training.

 

[Ironhyde]

try telling your friend to use a reverse grip on his pulldowns and rows. i always used overhand grip and built i decent back with it but it wasnt until i switched to reverse grip that my back blew up in width.

i also read an article on half deads, liked what i read and put them in my routine, im sure glad i did because after switching from overhand grip to reverse and adding these in my back/chest went from 47 inches to 51 in only a short few months.

not the end all be all, but it could help

Ricky is right. Half deads, or rack pulls, are an excellent exercise as well. I honestly feel like all the deadlifts and rack pulls I've done have contributed to the width of my back more than any pulldown movement, but that's just me.

 

[wedlund6]

dead lift heavy. full deads,half deads and throw some "t" bar in there. get off the cables

 

[Type O Hero]

I started noticing my back developing faster once I started paying more attention to strict technique. Now my general philosophy for back training is to use the most weight possible without sacrificing the best form. So in other words, say you're doing BB rows; whatever your form is using only the bar should be your form when you're using weight. A lot of people jack the weight up and then have to use a total body effort just to pull the weight. If you're trying to impress your boyfriends in the gym, it may work, but probably not. If you're trying to develop a quality back, it definitely won't get you very far. Of course on your really heavy sets a little bit of cheating is inevitable, but you should still keep it to a minimum.

Also, my upper back appears wider and fuller ever since I've started doing my pull-ups very, very strictly. I pull myself all the way up, then lower myself all the way down to a full stretch. The set ends once my form starts slipping. After any pulldown exercise, I'll usually grab hold of something and stretch out each side for like 10 seconds or so.

After my back workout is ended, I like hanging from a pull-up bar for as long as I can just to get a great stretch. You could take it once step further and hang using a weight belt. This stretching feels great after a workout.

The amount of taper you have greatly depends on your development, how lean you are, and your genetics. But a wide back and thicker shoulders definitely help achieve that look. And don't do any obliques exercises where you use weight, such as weighted side bends. The only thing you need for obliques is to add twisting movements to some of your abs exercises, really squeezing your obliques during the twist. Also, standing side twists with a light bar across your back really helps. My obliques are MUCH tighter now than they are in my avatar picture which was taken about 2 years ago.