can i gain AND cut? - AnabolicMinds.com

can i gain AND cut?

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    BIGtuna73's Avatar
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    can i gain AND cut?


    alrite guys..i'm new to this site and looking for some additional info on some supps..and any other advice you'd be willing to offer..first off, i'm 6' and 368lbs..been lifting for about 6 years..(on and off regretably)..always had a problem losing weight..i'd hit it hard for a couple months, and then completly drop off..i'm hoping to make this summer different tho..always taken "natural" supps (protein, cissus, fish oil, flaxseed, garlic, numerous fat burners, creatine, and numerous pre w/o, and just recently, novedex)..i bust ass in the gym, but fail to do so with my nutrition most of the time, so i understand that needs to be spot on before expecting results from supplements..with that being said tho, i'd like to give p/h's a try, and see what kind of results i can get from them..i've always been 'scared' to try them in the past, because of my weight and side effects, and because i have pre-existing gyno (pretty severe)..with that being said, i've been considering cyclo bolan, but read on this site that you shouldn't be screwing with that **** if you're a newb with ph's..so now, i'm considering epistane..supplement stack would look like this..

    -uni liver tabs (universal)
    -slim xtreme
    -protein (isopure, and a gnc protein blend)
    pre workout
    -con cret creatine
    -citrulline malate
    -AEE
    -beta alanine
    -alcar
    -taurine
    -NA-tyrosine

    -and then maybe sometype of p/h as well...

    my goal is to get down to around 230 asap,get as strong as possible, and to have successful surgery to eliminate the gyno..also, i am a poor college student, so i am looking for the most affordable and most effective stack...and, does anybody kno how a p/h and the pct would affect pre-existing gyno?...thanks for the help!

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    JDK5386's Avatar
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    Hey Tuna,

    I started at about the same weight you are at (352 was my peak) and am currently (297) about halfway to my goal (240). I'd offer this advice based on my own experience and reading what you've got.

    1. Your weight is at a crisis level (as mine was and to a lesser extent is). I would suggest that you cut hard to 300, then consider a more balanced approach after that.

    2. ECA and Clen are the most commonly recommended supplements for weight loss, but I would recommend holding off on those until you hit a plateau. I've started an ECA cycle because I've been stuck at 297 for 14 days despite large caloric deficits and a lot of exercise. Clen is more difficult to obtain and, from what I understand, more expensive. An ECA stack can be picked up for ~20-30 per month at a drugstore in most states.

    3. Get yourself a fitday.com account and log your foods. It takes 10-12 minutes per day, and is really eye opening about what foods will spike your caloric intake for little in the way of satisfaction or nutrition. It will also help you keep track of what size caloric deficit you need to run to achieve your goals.

    4. Weight loss is probably 70-90% diet and 30-10% exercise, but you can't neglect it. Most recommend either long, low-intensity cardio or HIIT cardio. I prefer HIIT because I don't really have the time/patience for an hour long, low-intensity workout and I think the results are better. Compound-movement weightlifting is also important, although my recovery has been terrible with deep squats and deadlifts.

    5. The only way that I'm aware that one can lose weight and build muscle simultaneously is on a carb-cycling diet. Few have the time or discipline to implement this diet, and from what I understand most people lose 1-2 pounds per week on this; my guess is you want more weight loss than that.

    6. Consider having your thyroid and testosterone levels checked. Even if both are off it wouldn't be the whole story, but it could help.

    7. Consider starting with a ketosis diet like Atkins. My guess is that your blood sugar levels are all over the place, and this can have disastrous effects on appetite. Going on something like Atkins (impossibly boring as it may be) for about a month will probably shed a half a pound per day or so, will force you to discipline yourself in terms of what you eat, and will sort out blood sugar issues. All of this will make your future weight loss - which will ultimately have to be centered around moderate calorie restriction - easier.

    8. Green tea is often recommended as a weight loss supplement. It has no known negative side effects and probably has a lot of positive ones.

    Hope this helps
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    tribaltek's Avatar
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    1) PLEASE get to a Dr. for a full physical, 2-D Echo, and full blood panels. You're a large guy, and you need to make sure everything is in working order.

    2) You need to focus on losing as much weight as possible. A Prohormone/Prosteroid is NOT going to help achieve that. It's also not healthy for someone of your size, as you probably already have high blood pressure and sugar issues. PH's can raise BP to very high levels, and some seem to mess with sugar levels as well.

    3) Worry about your gyno when you're down in the low 200's (something I'm still far from myself). You'll be surprised at the difference in how your chest looks at that point.

    4) I agree that you should go low carb for a few months. It's amazing when dropping carbs can do for someone with a lot to lose.

    5) I suggest you start a full body routine based on compound movements to get as much muscle moving as possible (to increase energy expenditure and metabolism). Try HST 3x per week. It works very well.

    6) Do no less than 4 days of cardio per week until you're in the 200's. Your body will thank you for it.

    7) Keep us posted on your progress. Best of luck!
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    ccapone1153's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGtuna73 View Post
    i bust ass in the gym, but fail to do so with my nutrition most of the time,
    THere is your problem. anyone can lift, Nutrition is 80% of the picture. Get that together, dont worry about the supps, forget the juice, and an hr of cardio a day until u get ur weight into a healthy range. I wouldnt even touch a dumbbell if i was you.
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    jpatt's Avatar
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    Im in totall agreement with all the other guys. Get your diet in check first. Focus on portion control. Its ok to snack, in fact its a good idea as long as its something healthy. Your body wont need much. Protein shakes are a good in-between meal, but some people dont like to take the time. You could do a handful of almonds or other type of nut. I also like to snack on dill pickles every now and then. They taste great (in my opinion) they do a decent job of filling you up, and they only have 5 calories per spear.

    In terms of workouts, do like everybody else says: focus on total body exercises (dead lifts, squats, cleans, etc...). Also, try doing a lot of standing exercises like standing overhead presses rather than just military presses. Do a lot of alternating exercises. For example, lay down like you're going to do dumbell presses. Only use one dumbell though. Do 10 with the right then switch the weight to the other hand and do 10 with the left. The idea is that youre working more stability/core muscles in addition to typical bench press muscles. You'll be surprised how difficult it is. Eventually you can start incorporating swiss/physioballs. I guarantee you'll be pouring sweat.

    The common advice is that you should only resort to fat burners and ph's if your diet and exercise are already great, and this is definitely true. With a proper diet and exercise program, someone at your weight should notice some serious improvements. When you are ready to look into phs and fat burners, research. And when you think you know enough, research some more! haha. Best of luck man!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpatt View Post
    In terms of workouts, do like everybody else says: focus on total body exercises (dead lifts, squats, cleans, etc...).
    I am definately no expert, but don't you think those exercises are very taxing on the CNS and could place alot of unneeded pressure on his heart??
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccapone1153 View Post
    I am definately no expert, but don't you think those exercises are very taxing on the CNS and could place alot of unneeded pressure on his heart??
    Sorry, I should have been more specific. Those types of exercises should be done at moderate weights otherwise, you're right, they can put a lot of stress on the heart. This is usually more of a problem for people who lead relatively sedentary lives and then decide to jump on a weight loss program. I made the assumption that because he said he has been lifting on and off for 6 years that he has at least a general knowledge of lifting and what his limitations are.
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