ATTENTION HARDGAINERS- you need to read this...
- 03-13-2009, 01:32 PM
ATTENTION HARDGAINERS- you need to read this...
i just saw a thread where a beginner was using some prohormone cream. 5'9" 150lbs. "hardgainer" of course. i dont hate this guy, i dont know him, i have nothing against him. several people replied to his initial post saying that he was using this prohormone cream with "way to go bro" and "awesome bro!" and other crap like that.
im sick of seeing this. i decide im not going to perpetuate the BS, and to tell the guy what he needs to hear- "hardgainer" is BS! i can speak from experience, because i spent all of highschool at 5'9" 150lbs, spinning my wheels for the most part in the weight room. difference being, i kept working at it, and knew there must be something i was doing wrong. i never once tried to make excuses and say "oh well, im just a hardgainer, ill never be big". F that! so, i told the guy what he needed to hear, and some j@ckA$$ gave me like negative (-) 8000 some rep points. then stated that i was right, but didnt like the way i said it.
so, let me see if i cant rack up some more negative rep points, and possibly just get banned right out of here- but keep in mind, what i am about to say to you is correct information, and if you work hard i promise that you can forever leave the term "hardgainer" out when describing yourself...and be warned, a lot of this may not be in any kind of order, im just going to let the thoughts flow, but it will all be relevant!
You have made the initial effort, to want to get bigger and stronger, good job!
now thats about all the praising youll hear from me right now.
if you are skinny, lanky, "skinny fat", etc- in other words, not very muscular and strong, you dont need a boatload of supplements! thats not what will do it for you! youre wasting your money! even if you get your hands on some good prohormones, or even decide to roid it up, if you arent eating to take yourself above 150lbs at 5'9" currently, then whatever muscle/weight you do manage to put on during your dabbling in magic supplements, you WONT be able to sustain it once youre off the supplement/roids!!!
i am not the hugest guy out there! nor am i the strongest! BUT, once i learned to eat, i took myself from 170lbs to 220lbs NATURALLY, with no drugs, and no supplements outside of whey protein powder! was that 50lbs of straight muscle, no it wasnt. was most of it muscle, yes, it certainly was. another miraculous thing happened during this time- i went from benching 225lbs for 4-5 reps, to benching 315lbs for 3-4 reps close grip! NOT the worlds strongest man, by any means! but, funny how i ate more food, pushed myself to get stronger, and got both bigger and stronger, isnt it?
another funny thing about this same time period- i dropped the cookie cutter muscle and fitness routines. no more 3-4 sets of 10-12 reps for 4-5 exercises per session. no sir! sometimes i would do 10 sets of 3, 5 sets of 5, 4 sets of 6, etc. if you arent pushing yourself to lift heavier weights, you arent going to get very strong, and you arent going to get very big. obviously when you use a heavier weight, youll be doing less reps, and if you feel you need more volume, simply do more sets!
most of the crap in M&F is written by the editors- not the bodybuilders. its the same old regurgitated crap time and time again!
you want to get big? then get strong, and eat! you want to get strong? spend some time reading what guys are doing at elitefts.com- it is not the same crap written in M&F, i promise you.
if you are 5'9" and 150lbs- you dont need a frickin' arm day! i think it was Dave Tate that said "you cant flex bone". if it wasnt Tate, it was some other big guy. and if you dont know who Dave Tate is, figure it out! it will help!
...you dont need an arm day- you need heavy compound movements 3-4 days a week, 45mins-hr in the gym, max! you dont need to be in there 2-3hrs, you need to go in, lift heavy, get the hel! out and go home and EAT and SLEEP!
deadlifts, squats, deadlift variations, bench press variation, military press, squat variations, deads, repeat. good idea is Mon- squat, Wed- bench, Fri- Dead...repeat! get your numbers up in the big 3, and EAT, and youll get your jack on!!!
chicken, steak, fish, eggs, milk, natural peanut butter, etc! eat these things in abundance, and whatever condiments or sides you feel like having with them!
get your jack on! then once youve put on a decent amount of size, and gained a good amount of strength, juice up if you want, get really jacked! thats when it works the best, when youve actually put in some hard time, gained size, strength, etc, and things have stalled out. they can get things rolling right along again, but you DONT need that sh!t when youre starting out...and if youve lifted for several years, and made little-no progress, you are just starting out!
thats all ive got for now, maybe people can add to this. keep the crybaby comments to yourselves- i say all of this to help! i wish someone had told me this as a freshman in highschool, i would have been BIG back then! oh well, i finally did some reading and figured the stuff out on my own a couple years ago...
and the reading: t-nation, elitefts, intensemuscle, ironaddicts
apparently i cant post links yet, so put your w's and dot-com's where they go for that reading!
- 03-13-2009, 01:52 PM
Just going to post what I wrote in the thread in question as I cant be botherd to get into this here again.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Hardgainers are real. I am one. I have studied a lot about being a hardgainer. I have seen videos of studies where a group of people were eating 10,000 calories a day for a month without excercising. 3 out of the 15 did not gain any more than 1-2lbs. How, their metabolism adjusted itself to the new intake of food. This was proven by the doctors in the study.
I myself am at the same weight as this guy. I started training at 119lb 5'10". I have to eat around 3500-4000 cals to maintain where I am and more to gain anything. And when I say gain I mean If I can get 3-4lbs a year I have done well. I hate seeing this statement " .......blah blah blah until you are gaining 1-2lb a week" The only thing that could make me gain 1-2lb a week is an anabolic. Food will never do this to me.
You need to stop looking at your own experiences and trying to teach by them as what is good for you is not good for everyone
What does get on my nerves is when people dig at the smaller guys but as soon as some guy who started at 180lbs and has put on 10lb over the last year, and jumps on the anabolics its not a problem even though the guy looks like he has never set foot in a gym before in his life.
Just wanted to add this. You have added about 29% to your starting weight. I have nearly achied the same at around 26%. Hyperplasma is very hard to achieve, hypertropy a little easier. Therefore can you not see that the guys who start out with very little may never get very big. As with everything in nature there are exceptions and well done to them.
In Stuart McRoberts book "Brawn" he talks about using wrist size to determin what your possible maximum size achiveable could be. Very interesting and it makes sense when you think about it. I will probably never be 180lb with a wrist size of 6 inches.
My point, stop knocking the hardgainers when you think its just about not eating right. I find it insulting.
- 03-13-2009, 02:02 PM
99% of the time, it is about eating right. I was 145 lbs when I graduated HS and struggled to hit 165 over the next few years. I always bitched I was a hardgainer, but I now realize that I was just uneducated about training and, most importantly, eating for hypertrophy. I worked my way up from eating 3000 kcals to 6000 kcals and gradually moved up to 210 before working my way back down to the 185-190 range. I completely agree with the OP and, also, 1 study cannot refute or prove anything. 1-2 lbs per week is not feasible without any AAS, but 1-2 lbs per month is possible with appropriate eating, training, rest, etc.
It's a matter of dedication and realizing that gaining a significant amount of LBM takes time.M.Ed. Ex Phys
03-13-2009, 02:03 PM
you know what "broseph", i dont need you following every thread i make. im not knocking "hardgainers"- im offering up the same information that i found that finally made my weight start going up. did you miss where i said that i too was 150lbs, all through highschool, even though i lifted the whole time? the difference? NOW I EAT!!!
oh and that wrist size crap- limit yourself if you want, but dont go preaching to people and spreading that BS. i came upon that wrist size stuff about 2 years ago on t-nation, and according to my wrist size i shouldnt have an upper arm measurement above 16.67". screw that, youve got to be kidding me! 17.5" right now, and i can definitely get bigger. although i just used a prohormone stack, i used it as a jumpstart to regain weight id lost- at 205lbs now, im still 15lbs off my heaviest, and at my heaviest i definitely still had room to get much more muscular.
you are fooling yourself, and you may even fool some other people, but in the end youll all just be fools, while those of us that dont buy into that hardgainer BS and wrist size crap still get bigger and stronger
03-13-2009, 02:05 PM
i am going to be starting a cycle using deca, test, and anavar sometime in April. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should use these anabolics in my cycle??
03-13-2009, 02:07 PM
03-13-2009, 02:12 PM
03-13-2009, 02:19 PM
i'd challenge a hardgainer that says "i eat all the time" to try my diet. or russianstars, or rodjas.
03-13-2009, 02:21 PM
1-2lbs muscle gain per month is good for anyone!
03-13-2009, 02:22 PM
haha...and ive got some j@ckAss giving me -8000 some rep points for saying what all these people agree with! awesome. keep spreading the word, these "hardgainers" need our help!
03-13-2009, 02:28 PM
03-13-2009, 02:31 PM
you are approached by someone who says, i'm having trouble gaining weight, and your product is helping me achieve my goals.
what is the correct response here? i'm sure everyone on that thread knows his diet has to be addressed, but as a rep, and having a happy customer, you can't start bashing him for having good results from your product - thats a great way to loose a customer and demotivate someone into screwing up their cycle.
just my opinion though - take it or leave it
you were on the right track, and i'm not going to deny that. i think you just got a bit blunt and got between a rep and a happy customer.
03-13-2009, 05:03 PM
X2 bro i agree, And what you said about diet was spot on, if you eat and i mean eat 500 plus calories every 2 hours 7+ times in a day, you will gain, when i was 15, i started waking up and eating a meal at 3 in the morning to gain, and it worked, i was 6,1 and 154lbs, within a year of eating properly i was 6,2 and 173lbs yes slow progress, thats what hard gainers make if they are natural, but if you eat like a horse you become one.
Gause institute member
Need2slin designer.Product designer/ **** admin.
03-16-2009, 03:03 PM
03-16-2009, 04:26 PM
03-16-2009, 05:29 PM
03-16-2009, 05:38 PM
03-16-2009, 05:44 PM
6k in calories is something i've tried and had to stretch the hell out of my stomach to achieve. But you'll gain, no way not to if your nutrients are all there at the right levels. Maybe you wont be looking like Ruhl in a year but take the gains and be happy
03-16-2009, 06:27 PM
My body can bend,twist, I am fast, and durable. Putting on pounds of muscle is hard, even when I have done my best training, and had a diet that shoulda yielded much more in gains. I kinda just get solid, widen out a lil, but take shape, not bulk. Always been that way.
I plan on using "The One". I weigh about 150ish right now, and I am 5'10. I am simply following an "I know so stfu" attitude while running it for those who wanna complain. I want to do it right, proper, clean, with good input from friends and more knowledgeable peeps. And come out with some great gains, and with good health. That way maybe some of the other people with my build who decide to go hormonal, I can help as well.
Also I believe the gains from a hormonal product on someone lighter will be more permanent and easy to maintain, since they arent at genetic max. And i believe there is no difference in the risks involved health wise from someone who isnt 5'10 and 200lbs compared to 5'10 and 150 lbs, as long as they both eat proper, and do proper training. At least I dont believe. So....why worry about it then?
Is there really any excuse for ANYONE to use anabolics? the answer is no, its simply personal choice.
03-16-2009, 06:33 PM
One pound of weight is the equivalent of ~3,500 cals. Energy in would be ~300,000 calories over the course of a month, which equates to just over 85 lbs for the month. The *ONLY* way the people who purportedly gained zero weight were therefore eating at maintenance at that level. Not likely, unless they were running lots 'o marathons that month or on the Michael Phelps training program. (Swimming, not bong usage.) But what you are saying the study says is that their metabolism "adjusted" to the increased energy balance. BS! Please post a reference or abstract to the study, 'cause you can't believe everything you read and a lot of scientific studies are supremely flawed.
Don't let bad science or anacdotal evidence (per McRoberts) provide you with useless excuses and derail your chances for greatness.
03-16-2009, 06:49 PM
I am an ectomorph so I have to keep my cals high to put on weight. I stopped lifting for a year because of a bad back. At 6"3" I was at 190lbs. I started lifting again in December, calories right on 5000 non workout days 5400 workout days. I am back to 218lbs right now, no extra supplements or anything crazy. I am still at 12% BF. Eat big!
03-16-2009, 07:31 PM
03-17-2009, 03:31 PM
Wrist size, hmm. Mine is 6 inches and I've been 200 plus before. You mean 180 of muscle right? I wasn't all muscle at all.
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03-17-2009, 06:03 PM
I've trained alot of HG's. Their main problem was calorie intake(how much and what kind) and that they actually never knew what true brute balls to the wall intensity was. BTW Arnie had small wrists..It makes your forearms look huge lol! Mine are 7 3/4 whatever that equates too? I always thought mine were small...
03-18-2009, 03:19 PM
I used to think I was a hardgainer! 4k calories a day seems to have solved the problem! XD
03-18-2009, 05:09 PM
im still gaining about a pound every week sometimes 2 lbs. a week. I almost hit a plateau there but the dth helped me smash right through it. i gained 4 lbs in 1.5 weeks a few days back.
i was a hard gainer in highschool too but it was just due to not eating or training right. i am 21 years old now, all natural and i put on 34 lbs in 3 months after taking a year off from weight training. now im smarter and bigger than i'd ever been, thanks anabolic minds!
03-18-2009, 05:54 PM
Last year i was around 125lbs, Now i'm 150(guessing thats a great gain) using nothing but food and protein shakes.
Eating right goes a long way, its the most important. Sure supplements help but eating is whats ganna help gain pure muscle.
Yes i agree that there are hard gainers out there, i'm definitly one.
Making this simple and short.
Hard gainers just gatta work harder.
03-18-2009, 06:24 PM
first you learn how to get into the gym and use the stuff in there, then you learn how to eat, then you really revamp your routine and start really training, then and only then do you grow!
03-19-2009, 10:52 AM
- 5'10" 205 lbs.
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03-24-2009, 11:36 PM
Tinyrob! Awesome post. I have used the excuse of "hard gainer" for my legs for quite some time. My legs are sh1t and i know they are. The past few months I have been killing my legs in the gym and now cant wait to work them out. Even though they have not grown as much as I would like, the feeling of hard work feels much better than considering my self a "hard gainer"! This post definitely gave me some encouragement to just get in their and get it done
03-25-2009, 05:15 AM
1) Great post, it's very similar to my experience i.e. eat heavy + lift heavy = get heavy.
2) I think there is a point slightly neglected: I think it's really important for people unhappy with their physique/progress to honestly work out where training sits on their list of priorities. This is of great importance and will hugely effect progress. If training isn't high in priorities then progress will not be high.
3) In my experience consistency is key. We can all do a perfect diet and training for a month or so see gains and watch it slip away after. Small changes that stay are usually better than big changes that are temporary. For me it's best to slowly increase my diet, this way it stays.
4) Play to your strengths if you're ectomorph/hardgainer and don't have time/effort to bulk then work with what you got....get ripped. A six pack makes anyone look 100 x better.
That's enough rambling for my first post lol.
03-25-2009, 01:44 PM
some good things going on here, keep it going...
03-26-2009, 11:58 AM
lol damnit ive been training hard for awhile now, got big to 189 with supplements, stopped taking supplements and im at the same weight i was at when i started training...155lbs. i WISH i could gain 1-2lbs of muscle a month, i train hard but just cant seem to move up in weight especially with bench press. i eat alot too, and im 20 so i dont see why im not gaining some muscle mass but just gotta go in there and try and try again to get 1 more rep on bench press with the same weight as last week only to practically die on the same rep i died at the week b4 (pressing 155lbs for 5-7 reps) someday ill get to 8 lol
03-26-2009, 12:33 PM
i wonder if those who purport to be hardgainers have tried different diets that play significantly with the macronutrient ratios, like the Anabolic diet or carb cycling. Also, if any one of them went to Charles Polinquin with their hardgainer story, he'd get them on 30-45gram of fish oil a day, it has worked wonders in terms of muscle mass for athletes that REALLY know how to train and eat...
03-26-2009, 01:02 PM
03-26-2009, 07:31 PM
And Poliquin jumped off a cliff with that whole fish oil think. Plasma DHA levels saturate at ~1.2 grams per day in the presence of fish oil. It is physiologically useless to overload fish oil.
03-27-2009, 01:14 AM
it really sounds like you have no idea what your talking about just sounds like a bunch of opinionated bs honestly.
03-28-2009, 05:25 AM
164-203 in 4 months, natural and minimal supps. Maintained this now for 18 months. Compound moves, calorie excess but a clean bulk. BF is 16% now and i am guessing my BF was 14-15%. When i do my cut up i am aiming for 180 which is 5% so that is a net muscle gain of at least 20 pounds. I am not against hard gainers at all. I have trained on and off for 16 years and never got these gains, my secret is consitentcy in the gym, lift 3/4 days a week, aim to get stronger on all the compound moves and work out what your calorie excess needs to be to gain 1 pound a week or more. You dont need any fancy pants routine, you can start with a 5x5 program by Bill Starr its simple but hard to execute if you push the poundages.
03-28-2009, 06:49 AM
I used to think I was a hard gainer (5'11 - 150lbs). Then I found out what I was doing wrong. After a year of 5x5 training and eating until I wanna puke, I was up 40lbs.
And the best thing is, burning fat is a peice of cake. All I have to do is start eating like a normal person and the fat just melts away.
Being a 'hard gainer' is awesome. I feel sorry for those poor endomorphs, starving away and spending all their time on treadmills.
03-28-2009, 08:21 AM
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