Thinking about giving up bodybuilding. Can an ectomorph really get big?

[DaveWalton]

I'm 19, turning 20 this November. I made the decision in grade 10 at 15 years old to start working out because I was unhappy with being skinny. My whole family is tall. My dad is 6'5 and quite skinny and I'm a naturally the same way. It seems like I don't have the genetics for natural bodybuilding at all.

All in all I've managed to bulk myself up to 200...but 200 at 6'3 is not that impressive and in all honesty I still look fairly skinny. I'm beginning to think that there's no way I'll ever be a big guy unless I turn to steroids. Less than 15 minutes ago I called a local guy and placed an order for testosterone cypionate as a beginner cycle of gear. I called about 10 minutes later and called the order off. As much as I want to get big, I do not want to suppress my HPTA permanently at my age or risk side effects like balding or acne.

The thing is, after 5 years of bodybuilding I'm genuinely considering giving up. I'm so tired of busting my ass in the gym (on programs like German Volume Training, Gironda's 8x8, typical 5x5, etc.) and spending half of my day eating and preparing meals (and yes, my diet is quite healthy and I take in PLENTY of protein and complex carbs, fruits and veggies, etc. with loads of calories).

Is it reasonable to say that a skinny guy like me can actually build up to a decent sized frame without steroids? I honestly don't think I can do it. Anyone?

 

[ThomasRivera]

It takes time, even after 5 years, it takes time. Being 6'3 you have to realise that if you put on ten pounds it doesn't look as impressive as a 5'5 guy putting on 10 pounds. You don't have to shoot for steroids right away, you could look into stuff like epi or havoc. If I were you I would keep going till 220-230, decide then.

 

[Nitrox]

When you say you take in loads of calories does that mean you count them by measuring out your meals? If not then that is the first place to start. Being tall you will have a relatively high base metabolism and eating according to appetite is not a good way to ensure that you provide a sufficient energy surplus required for anabolism.

As far as looks go, yes an ecto can look muscular. I don't think they can achieve that wide-as-tall look that short stocky frames can achieve. However, I don't think that that is necessarily a bad thing either.

 

[yoked317]

I'm 19, turning 20 this November. I made the decision in grade 10 at 15 years old to start working out because I was unhappy with being skinny. My whole family is tall. My dad is 6'5 and quite skinny and I'm a naturally the same way. It seems like I don't have the genetics for natural bodybuilding at all.

All in all I've managed to bulk myself up to 200...but 200 at 6'3 is not that impressive and in all honesty I still look fairly skinny. I'm beginning to think that there's no way I'll ever be a big guy unless I turn to steroids. Less than 15 minutes ago I called a local guy and placed an order for testosterone cypionate as a beginner cycle of gear. I called about 10 minutes later and called the order off. As much as I want to get big, I do not want to suppress my HPTA permanently at my age or risk side effects like balding or acne.

The thing is, after 5 years of bodybuilding I'm genuinely considering giving up. I'm so tired of busting my ass in the gym (on programs like German Volume Training, Gironda's 8x8, typical 5x5, etc.) and spending half of my day eating and preparing meals (and yes, my diet is quite healthy and I take in PLENTY of protein and complex carbs, fruits and veggies, etc. with loads of calories).

Is it reasonable to say that a skinny guy like me can actually build up to a decent sized frame without steroids? I honestly don't think I can do it. Anyone?

some people do not seem to be blessed with great genetics, and the ones that really do push through i envy, I am going to tell you a little story about a good friend of mine, we will call him john. at about 18 years old john smoked a pack a day, drank like a fish, and was a typical skater, skinny as a rail, never touched a weight, or even thought about it. this continued for about 2 more years, at 20yo john got really sick, the alcohol was worse, the drugs were worse, he was 5'10" 130lbs. finally he realized he needed to get out of that lifestyle, he needed a more beneficial vice than drugs and cigarettes. so He joined a gym, he had no clue wtf he was doing but he hit it hard and despite the pain, he continued on with it, when he was tempted to turn to drinking or smoking, he went to the gym. well years went by, john continued to train, and perfect his routines, he asked all the big guys questions, and never once considered turning to "the darkside" slowly he gained more and more weight, until he was about 26, he was a good 200lbs and was ready to compete. he competed at 172lbs, and did really well, and he stayed at that weight until he was about 29, due to school, john didnt have the time he needed for contest prep, so he took about 2 years off, in that two years he stuck to his training and at age 31 competed in the emerald cup at a little under 200lbs, and he won. not only did he win the emerald cup but in his years prior, he became Mr anchorrage alaska, winning numerous titles there and also earned his way to becomming a natural pro in the wfna and other natural organizations. right now john is 228lbs in his off season and he still makes gains, he has been featured in magazines, and even made it all the way to the team universe competition a few years ago, this all from a guy who had no muscle or build what so ever at the age of 20, he just focused on his goals and followed thru. You are still very young, your muscles will not even mature until you hit 26-27, so you have many years before your body hits its full potential, and besides, I know the gains feel great, but bodybuilding is a lifestyle, not only that it is a science, you just need to find what works for you, work out by feel, not by some magazine article, I am a firm believer that you get back only what you put in. put another plate on the bar, add 1000 calories to your diet and push out some reps. it's not only a constant battle in the gym, you gotta put your mind into your muscle, and soon you will be able to work out just by feel, not by some trainers or some magazines common routine. hope this inspires a little bit.

 

[IroNwIlL2006]

You should have no problems putting on mass at your size bro. You just simply need to eat more. There's no excuse for not gaining weight-- the problem is putting on the right kind of weight. That's coming from an ecto and former 150 lber.

 

[suncloud]

YES!!!! please don't give up. it takes time. look into a compound workout to do three days a week. like MWF. something like...

squats
deads
bench
chins
military press
upright row

4 sets of 8 on monday, 4 sets of 10 on wednesday, 4 sets of 6 on friday, and on friday you add 5 lbs to your set. do this with a carb surplus (you'd probably need 5k if you're an ecto), and you'll gain 2 pounds per month for a year. when you first start this workout, go light, because this workout will beat you down. oh, and do them as supersets - two exercises back to back, 30 second break max. 35 minutes is the maximum time to do this workout, 30 minutes is ideal.

i did a similar workout to the above, and it took me from 5'9" and 126 to 170 in two years.

any workout that you can't go up by 5 lbs, switch out for a similar move.
squats to front squats
deads to sumo deads or suitcase deads
chins for pull ups

you get the idea. compound moves = most mass. for an ecto, thats your bread and butter.

if you haven't read : http://anabolicminds.com/forum/training-forum/99607-gaining-mass-nutshell.html , please do, as it does help adjust any dietary concerns you may have. DO NOT GIVE UP!!!

 

[PowerlifterMB]

Ohhhh yeah an ectomorph can get big. Flex Wheeler used to be an ectomorph.

 

[John Smeton]

ectomorph=undereater.. eat more and then eat soem more intill you almost cannot stand it. push yourself to that point. and in addition learn what foods to eat. and lift heavy, sleep good

 

[Rugger]

Dante Bautista went from 140 to 300

 

[Nitrox]

Dante Bautista went from 140 to 300

Clean?

 

[Rugger]

Clean?

I think he was clean until 200 maybe? That's still a hell of a gain, and the OP can gear up in 5 years.

 

[DaveWalton]

some people do not seem to be blessed with great genetics, and the ones that really do push through i envy, I am going to tell you a little story about a good friend of mine, we will call him john. at about 18 years old john smoked a pack a day, drank like a fish, and was a typical skater, skinny as a rail, never touched a weight, or even thought about it. this continued for about 2 more years, at 20yo john got really sick, the alcohol was worse, the drugs were worse, he was 5'10" 130lbs. finally he realized he needed to get out of that lifestyle, he needed a more beneficial vice than drugs and cigarettes. so He joined a gym, he had no clue wtf he was doing but he hit it hard and despite the pain, he continued on with it, when he was tempted to turn to drinking or smoking, he went to the gym. well years went by, john continued to train, and perfect his routines, he asked all the big guys questions, and never once considered turning to "the darkside" slowly he gained more and more weight, until he was about 26, he was a good 200lbs and was ready to compete. he competed at 172lbs, and did really well, and he stayed at that weight until he was about 29, due to school, john didnt have the time he needed for contest prep, so he took about 2 years off, in that two years he stuck to his training and at age 31 competed in the emerald cup at a little under 200lbs, and he won. not only did he win the emerald cup but in his years prior, he became Mr anchorrage alaska, winning numerous titles there and also earned his way to becomming a natural pro in the wfna and other natural organizations. right now john is 228lbs in his off season and he still makes gains, he has been featured in magazines, and even made it all the way to the team universe competition a few years ago, this all from a guy who had no muscle or build what so ever at the age of 20, he just focused on his goals and followed thru. You are still very young, your muscles will not even mature until you hit 26-27, so you have many years before your body hits its full potential, and besides, I know the gains feel great, but bodybuilding is a lifestyle, not only that it is a science, you just need to find what works for you, work out by feel, not by some magazine article, I am a firm believer that you get back only what you put in. put another plate on the bar, add 1000 calories to your diet and push out some reps. it's not only a constant battle in the gym, you gotta put your mind into your muscle, and soon you will be able to work out just by feel, not by some trainers or some magazines common routine. hope this inspires a little bit.

Great post thanks! I suppose I was a little depressed at the realization that I wouldn't be taking steroids. I'm going to try to start aiming for:

55g protein
80g carbs
15g fat

per meal for 6 meals a day. Also with PLENTY of veggies and fruit and of course lots of water.

Supps will include:

weight gainer
multi
flaxseed oil capsules
creatine monohydrate (looking into kre-alkalyn atm...I hear its quite effective when taken with a banana)

And thank you suncloud for your advice. I will be looking into a program. I'm not sure that 3 times a week is enough though...

 

[suncloud]

Great post thanks! I suppose I was a little depressed at the realization that I wouldn't be taking steroids. I'm going to try to start aiming for:

55g protein
80g carbs
15g fat

per meal for 6 meals a day. Also with PLENTY of veggies and fruit and of course lots of water.

Supps will include:

weight gainer
multi
flaxseed oil capsules
creatine monohydrate (looking into kre-alkalyn atm...I hear its quite effective when taken with a banana)

And thank you suncloud for your advice. I will be looking into a program. I'm not sure that 3 times a week is enough though...

thats the hardest part of this workout. i also don't like going to the gym that little. but it does work, and it works pretty well. you could also do a traditional workout 4 days per week, and throw that workout in on day 5. its not quite the same, but it will help you gain.

can you do me a favor, and post what your workout currently consists of, by day, order of exercise, and sets/reps? i would be more than happy to help an AM'er out, as far as offering suggestions as to why your workout may not be challenging you enough.

EDIT : also a recovery time estimate, like legs 3 days, etc would help greatly.

 

[DaveWalton]

thats the hardest part of this workout. i also don't like going to the gym that little. but it does work, and it works pretty well. you could also do a traditional workout 4 days per week, and throw that workout in on day 5. its not quite the same, but it will help you gain.

can you do me a favor, and post what your workout currently consists of, by day, order of exercise, and sets/reps? i would be more than happy to help an AM'er out, as far as offering suggestions as to why your workout may not be challenging you enough.

EDIT : also a recovery time estimate, like legs 3 days, etc would help greatly.

Right now I'm doing Vince Gironda's traditional 8x8 program:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/archive/index.php?t-646639.html

I'm thinking of switching to a less advanced routine however as I am beginning to feel like this program is overtraining. I must say I LOVE the drag curls though.

 

[suncloud]

so this is what you're doing :

DAY 1
Chest
Decline low cable crossover (touch hands at waistline) 8 X 8
Bench press to neck 8 X 8
Incline Dumbbell Press (palms facing each other) 8 X 8
Wide Grip V-Bar Dips 8 X 8

Biceps
Drag Curl 8 X 8
Preacher curl (top of bench at low pec line) 8 X 8
Incline Dumbbell Curl 8 X 8

Forearms
Zottman Curl 8 X 8
Barbell Wrist Curl 8 X 8

DAY 2
Shoulders
Dumbbell Side Lateral raise seated 8 X 8
Wide Grip upright row 8 X 8
Front to back barbell shoulder press 8 X 8
Dumbbell bent over rear deltoid lateral 8 X 8

Triceps
Kneeling rope extension 8 X 8
Lying Tricep Extension 8 X 8
2 Dumbbell Tricep Kickback 8 X 8

DAY 3
Back
Sternum Chin up 8 X 8
High bench two dumbbell rowing 8 X 8
Low cable row with 18" high pulley 8 X 8
Medium Grip Lat Pulldown to Chest 8 X 8

Abs
Double Crunch (pull in knees and elbows together at same time) 8 X 8
Weighted Crunch 8 X 8
Lying Bent Knee Leg Raises 8 X 8

DAY 4
Quads
Front Squat 8 X 8
Hack machine squat 8 X 8
Sissy Squat 8 X 8
Leg Extension 8 X 8

Hamstrings
Supine Leg Curl 8 X 8
Seated leg Curl machine 8 X 8

Calves Standing Calf raise 8 X 20
Seated Calf raise 8 X 20

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

i very rarely say this, but you could very well be overtraining. some of this workout i really like (exercise wise), others leave a little to be desired (tricep mass exercises don't exist, etc). also, i'm not terribly in favor of training back after a shoulder day. also, compound moves first - always for mass. if i were to rewrite this for you (keep in mind that workout is a fairly advanced one - executioner bench is not a beginners movement), i would consider the following :

DAY 1
Chest : 4x8-12 is mass, figure the reps out that work best for your body
Bench press
Wide Grip V-Bar Dips (keep your chest forward, legs back)
Incline Dumbbell Press (palms facing each other)
Decline low cable crossover (touch hands at waistline)

Biceps
Drag Curl
Preacher curl (top of bench at low pec line)
Pinwheel curls (or reverse grip preachers)

Forearms
Zottman Curl
Barbell Wrist Curl

DAY 2
Shoulders
Military Press
Wide Grip upright row
Dumbbell Side Lateral raise seated
Dumbbell bent over rear deltoid lateral

Triceps
Close Grip Bench
Weighted Dips (keep your body upright for these)
Reverse grip tricep pushdown

DAY 3
Quads
Regular Squat
Front Squat
Hack machine squat
Sissy Squat


Hamstrings
Supine Leg Curl
Straight Legged Deadlifts (your hams will give out before your back)

Calves Standing Calf raise
Seated Calf raise

Day 4
Back
Deadlifts
Sternum Chin up
Low cable row with 18" high pulley
Medium Grip Lat Pulldown to Chest

Abs
Double Crunch (pull in knees and elbows together at same time)
Weighted Crunch
Lying Bent Knee Leg Raises


that's my 2 cents. honestly, the lack of deadlifts is probably whats keeping you from growing (yes, its that important), as well as you might be on the brink of overtraining. hopefully that helps point you in the right direction.

guys, please critique what i've done, and possible other ideas here for our brotha.

 

[DaveWalton]

so this is what you're doing :

DAY 1
Chest
Decline low cable crossover (touch hands at waistline) 8 X 8
Bench press to neck 8 X 8
Incline Dumbbell Press (palms facing each other) 8 X 8
Wide Grip V-Bar Dips 8 X 8

Biceps
Drag Curl 8 X 8
Preacher curl (top of bench at low pec line) 8 X 8
Incline Dumbbell Curl 8 X 8

Forearms
Zottman Curl 8 X 8
Barbell Wrist Curl 8 X 8

DAY 2
Shoulders
Dumbbell Side Lateral raise seated 8 X 8
Wide Grip upright row 8 X 8
Front to back barbell shoulder press 8 X 8
Dumbbell bent over rear deltoid lateral 8 X 8

Triceps
Kneeling rope extension 8 X 8
Lying Tricep Extension 8 X 8
2 Dumbbell Tricep Kickback 8 X 8

DAY 3
Back
Sternum Chin up 8 X 8
High bench two dumbbell rowing 8 X 8
Low cable row with 18" high pulley 8 X 8
Medium Grip Lat Pulldown to Chest 8 X 8

Abs
Double Crunch (pull in knees and elbows together at same time) 8 X 8
Weighted Crunch 8 X 8
Lying Bent Knee Leg Raises 8 X 8

DAY 4
Quads
Front Squat 8 X 8
Hack machine squat 8 X 8
Sissy Squat 8 X 8
Leg Extension 8 X 8

Hamstrings
Supine Leg Curl 8 X 8
Seated leg Curl machine 8 X 8

Calves Standing Calf raise 8 X 20
Seated Calf raise 8 X 20

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

i very rarely say this, but you could very well be overtraining. some of this workout i really like (exercise wise), others leave a little to be desired (tricep mass exercises don't exist, etc). also, i'm not terribly in favor of training back after a shoulder day. also, compound moves first - always for mass. if i were to rewrite this for you (keep in mind that workout is a fairly advanced one - executioner bench is not a beginners movement), i would consider the following :

DAY 1
Chest : 4x8-12 is mass, figure the reps out that work best for your body
Bench press
Wide Grip V-Bar Dips (keep your chest forward, legs back)
Incline Dumbbell Press (palms facing each other)
Decline low cable crossover (touch hands at waistline)

Biceps
Drag Curl
Preacher curl (top of bench at low pec line)
Pinwheel curls (or reverse grip preachers)

Forearms
Zottman Curl
Barbell Wrist Curl

DAY 2
Shoulders
Military Press
Wide Grip upright row
Dumbbell Side Lateral raise seated
Dumbbell bent over rear deltoid lateral

Triceps
Close Grip Bench
Weighted Dips (keep your body upright for these)
Reverse grip tricep pushdown

DAY 3
Quads
Regular Squat
Front Squat
Hack machine squat
Sissy Squat


Hamstrings
Supine Leg Curl
Straight Legged Deadlifts (your hams will give out before your back)

Calves Standing Calf raise
Seated Calf raise

Day 4
Back
Deadlifts
Sternum Chin up
Low cable row with 18" high pulley
Medium Grip Lat Pulldown to Chest

Abs
Double Crunch (pull in knees and elbows together at same time)
Weighted Crunch
Lying Bent Knee Leg Raises


that's my 2 cents. honestly, the lack of deadlifts is probably whats keeping you from growing (yes, its that important), as well as you might be on the brink of overtraining. hopefully that helps point you in the right direction.

guys, please critique what i've done, and possible other ideas here for our brotha.

Thanks very much for taking the time to write this out. I'm not surprised you have the good reputation you do around here. Honestly, I completely hear you when you say my lack of deadlifts are a factor. I think I will look into a good mass building program that isn't quite as advance as Gironda's that incorporates the big three.

 

[suncloud]

glad to help brotha. hopefully some of the other guys here can share their expertise as well.

 

[yoked317]

I gotta go with a more traditional workout than an 8x8, it is said that maximum growth occurs in no more than 4-5 sets, most often in the fourth set, as that should be your max work set. 8x8 is more to get definition and keep size, but not add much, I use similar workout when I am leaning out for a comp in order to striate the muscle and also keep as much mass as possible without losing, i really have no hope to gain any mass when I lean out. heavy compound lifts is really where the money is, I will usually try to hit my two rep max once every 8days or so in all compound exercises, also i throw my muscles for a loop almost every workout, say I do just regular flat bench as my heavy set on chest one chest workout, the next I will do incline with chains on the bar for resistance, or I will do decline negatives till i wanna puke, be creative and ensure that you are working the desired muscle group. my girlfriend sometimes gets irritated that I spend so much time thinking of different ways to shock my muscles, she'd rather see more effort put towards her, but it is an addiction, change some stuff up and i bet you will see some great results. and remember looking into the near future is sometimes disappointing, look 2-3 even four years down the road, it has taken me 3 to put on 20 pounds of muscle naturally. but it was well worth it now looking back. good luck

 

[somewhatgifted]

Anything worth having is worth fighting for.

You will grow physically, spiritually, and mentally your entire life, this is not a easily won battle.

Focus on the positives and keep building and moving closer to your goals, dont give up. Youve got the rest of your life to think about what you have that is already great and build from there, hey your tall and skinny but your alive, healthy and loved im sure. So go to the fridge grab some food and have a glass of cold water that you didnt have to walk to a stream to get and think it can always be worse.

Now get your hands dirty, make your life and body how you would like it.

 

[John Smeton]

Dante Bautista went from 140 to 300

Dante Trudel

 

[John Smeton]

I think he was clean until 200 maybe? That's still a hell of a gain, and the OP can gear up in 5 years.

he was clean in till 248 in late twenties.

 

[pistonpump]

smeaton, ectomorph doesnt equal undereater. its a scientific fact that we have bodytypes. Undereater in this sport maybe but even if an ecto over eats they are still ecto.

its not easy esp being an ecto. if you want to give up then you dont have the patience anyway and you dont deserve to have muscle given to you. Everyone has their battles you have to figure out with time and smart experimentation what works for you. Ecto is not neccassarily a bad thing.

Definately dont use any steroids either. Up your calories and change your training routine.....add some smart choices as far as supplements go and get good rest. Stay dedicated and be rewarded with hard work in the end. Dont give up

 

[dbow196]

I have the same story as you man.

I’m 6’5” and started lifting around 15 and did not see the same results as all the munchkins would get. At 18-19, I was just as frustrated. Everyone grows in different ways, but when I was in my early 20s (21-23) I started filling out and put on a lot of lean weight. You might be going through the same thing. Even though you have been working out for five years, you’re still young enough that your body might not have fully grown. I gained over 20 pounds after 21, just from ‘growing up.’

 

[Nitrox]

smeaton, ectomorph doesnt equal undereater. its a scientific fact that we have bodytypes. Undereater in this sport maybe but even if an ecto over eats they are still ecto.

I agree with this up to a point. That is that an ecto's limitation will be in lean body mass. If the OP cannot get past 200lbs on the scale then as long his endocrine system is up to the task, he is simply not eating enough. Excess calories WILL be used either to build muscle or to add to fat stores.

It is a different issue altogether if the OP's problem is that he cannot add any more muscle regardless of a weight increase on the scale.

 

[MikeyBuddha]

When you say you take in loads of calories does that mean you count them by measuring out your meals? If not then that is the first place to start.

This.

Throw your diet and all that in here and we can help a lot more than you might think...

 

[dfohio]

Great post thanks! I suppose I was a little depressed at the realization that I wouldn't be taking steroids. I'm going to try to start aiming for:

55g protein
80g carbs
15g fat

per meal for 6 meals a day. Also with PLENTY of veggies and fruit and of course lots of water.

Supps will include:

weight gainer
multi
flaxseed oil capsules
creatine monohydrate (looking into kre-alkalyn atm...I hear its quite effective when taken with a banana)

And thank you suncloud for your advice. I will be looking into a program. I'm not sure that 3 times a week is enough though...

That is still 4050 calories a day. For a guy that is ecto, that probably is not enough to make significant gains. Being an ectomorph myself, I know where you are coming from. A couple years ago I was 5'10 and 135lb. It took awhile but I got up to 155-160 eating 4000-4500 calories/day.
I recently just did a havoc cycle and now I'm up to 177. My hands, wrists (6") and frame are all always going to be small but the added muscle defintely helps.
Obviously I'm not trying to get you to take a steroid. But I figure if I had to eat around 4500 to gain significantly at 5'10 and 135, then maybe you should look into throwing in a lot more food.

 

[John Smeton]

smeaton, ectomorph doesnt equal undereater. its a scientific fact that we have bodytypes. Undereater in this sport maybe but even if an ecto over eats they are still ecto.

its not easy esp being an ecto. if you want to give up then you dont have the patience anyway and you dont deserve to have muscle given to you. Everyone has their battles you have to figure out with time and smart experimentation what works for you. Ecto is not neccassarily a bad thing.

Definately dont use any steroids either. Up your calories and change your training routine.....add some smart choices as far as supplements go and get good rest. Stay dedicated and be rewarded with hard work in the end. Dont give up

too get big ectomorph means undereater. Im an ecto and I weigh 240 lbs. In high school before I ever touched a weight I was 150. at 6ft2 that is skinny. senior year i took an elctive weight lifting class and only did chest basically and gained. I was still a twig. 165 maybe. I ate about 1000 calories per day and skateboard for three hoursd per day most days.

Since Ive gone up to 4k I gained. eat your ass off and then eat some more. the reason your not gaining is your not eating enough. Dante Trudel is a former ecto graduated hs at 6ft and 140lbs..Im also a former ecto now I look damn big when i walk in anywhere. (esp with my dress shoes that I'm about 6ft4 with)

simple as that..eat more. esp prortein get in 2 lbs of protein per bodyweight when training heavy and intense youll see the difference.

 

[Flaw]

ectomorph=undereater..

Completely agree! I've seen results from "hard gainers" who have used the bodybugg arm band device to measure how much calories they burn in a day. These guys were burning 4,000-7,000 calories doing nothing more then weight training in a day. Eat more then you burn and you will gain weight. It's simple. The hard part is stuffing down that many calories. Some man's curse is another man's blessing I guess. I wouldn't give up.. JUST EAT!!! It will take time but slowly each year you will put on more weight..Nothing in life comes easy.. You gotta work hard for good results!

 

[B5150]

Consider a few things that you younger guys are forgetting - not intended to minimize some of your successes - some guys just grow late.

When I hear a guy tell me he was 16 or 17 and 140lbs and by the time he was 20 he "put on" 60lb from "his hard work, diet and discipline" I always kind of giggle. I've seen kids put on 60lbs over a year or two after they graduated HS doing absolutely nothing.

A best friend whom we called "the skinny guinie" was a skinny little kid of 5'7" and 145lbs soaking wet at 18 yo. By the time he hit 21 he was 6'0" and 220.

Now lifting will keep you fit but you are not done growing you'll just keep growing with or without lifting. Like I said I'm not minimizing, but I wouldn't be so fast to take credit either

DaveWalton - consider NOT lifting like a bodybuilder for a year. Instead train as a power lifter or Olympic lifter - and eat.

 

[suncloud]

Consider a few things that you younger guys are forgetting - not intended to minimize some of your successes - some guys just grow late.

When I hear a guy tell me he was 16 or 17 and 140lbs and by the time he was 20 he "put on" 60lb from "his hard work, diet and discipline" I always kind of giggle. I've seen kids put on 60lbs over a year or two after they graduated HS doing absolutely nothing.

A best friend whom we called "the skinny guinie" was a skinny little kid of 5'7" and 145lbs soaking wet at 18 yo. By the time he hit 21 he was 6'0" and 220.

Now lifting will keep you fit but you are not done growing you'll just keep growing with or without lifting. Like I said I'm not minimizing, but I wouldn't be so fast to take credit either

DaveWalton - consider NOT lifting like a bodybuilder for a year. Instead train as a power lifter or Olympic lifter - and eat.

to clarify about myself here B, i was 135 in HS (1994). 117 when i turned 18 and joined the army (95). maxed my weight at 145. got out of the army at 135 (99). sunk to 126 when i was 29 (05), and that was the last straw for me.


ohh... a powerlifter idea. now that's a really good idea!

 

[PowerlifterMB]

ectomorph=undereater.. eat more and then eat soem more intill you almost cannot stand it. push yourself to that point. and in addition learn what foods to eat. and lift heavy, sleep good

Being an ectomorph is about more than undereating. It has to do with the bone size and skeletal structure.

 

[nparisi]

Being an ectomorph is about more than undereating. It has to do with the bone size and skeletal structure.

:goodpost:
That's exactly right. I could eat 15,000 cals a day and my forearms and calves wouldn't ever be "big". Genetics plays a part, you can't attribute it all to undereating.

 

[Flaw]

well that's kind of a given but the Pro bodybuilders we all see in magazines like flex and muscle mag distorts the image of what we should look like. Those guys have great genetics but do everything possible to maximize their genetic potential including a lot of potentially harmful substances. Let's not let this distort our passion for body building thinking we can never be "big" or what we think is big. There's many local bodybuilding competitions at different weight classes and levels and so on so that anyone who is passionate about the sport can enter. Will everyone win? No.. but atleast you can be involved in what you love.

 

[DaveWalton]

I gotta go with a more traditional workout than an 8x8, it is said that maximum growth occurs in no more than 4-5 sets, most often in the fourth set, as that should be your max work set. 8x8 is more to get definition and keep size, but not add much, I use similar workout when I am leaning out for a comp in order to striate the muscle and also keep as much mass as possible without losing, i really have no hope to gain any mass when I lean out. heavy compound lifts is really where the money is, I will usually try to hit my two rep max once every 8days or so in all compound exercises, also i throw my muscles for a loop almost every workout, say I do just regular flat bench as my heavy set on chest one chest workout, the next I will do incline with chains on the bar for resistance, or I will do decline negatives till i wanna puke, be creative and ensure that you are working the desired muscle group. my girlfriend sometimes gets irritated that I spend so much time thinking of different ways to shock my muscles, she'd rather see more effort put towards her, but it is an addiction, change some stuff up and i bet you will see some great results. and remember looking into the near future is sometimes disappointing, look 2-3 even four years down the road, it has taken me 3 to put on 20 pounds of muscle naturally. but it was well worth it now looking back. good luck

Great post once again. I have decided to start with James Chan's "Hypertrophy Training for the Ectomorph". Here's the program:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ectomorph_pyramid_training.htm

It actually utilizes Gironda's 10, 8, 6, 15 pyramid scheme.

I've also begun to realize that I am not in fact taking in as many calories or enough carbs/protein as I should be. I'm also working on drinking at least a gallon of water a day now. It's tough but I think once of the best ways to accomplish my dietaary needs will be to prepare most of my meals at night before bed so i have them ready to go the next morning.

 

[DaveWalton]

Overall, I agree with most of what you guys are saying. I still need to take the time to fill out, but eating more (of the right foods of course) will help me to gain...and changing my program to focus on compound lifts will also help. Eating is tough but its what it will take me to get big.

I've also decided to throw in some cardio 2 times a week. It will be HIIT for 15-20 minutes on the treadmill to burn fat.

 

[poopypants]

Answer: YES

Proof in the puddin. first pics taken @140lbs same height in 2003. Second pics taken @ 190lbs same height in 2007

It just takes ALOT of cals to get it going then eventually youll break through. At 21 and 165 lbs I finally resorted to anabolics (Im talkin legal orals, this was a fine choice for me, I hit puberty early and had been the same height since 14, I was done growing long ago) though to push me above and beyond, now its easier to gain natty AND with anabolics I can make great strides. I wouldnt hit them up though till you are of age and have expended many other possibilities.

You can see in my avi Im even more lean now and another 10lbs heavier then in the pics above.

Keep at it man, you can do it.

For now creatine and cals and sleep are your best friends. Check the workout section also for some good routines, maybe the HST program would work well for you.

 

[suncloud]

nice transformation poops!

 

[poopypants]

thanks suncloud! its been a fun trip and if I didnt have to start almost all the way over like 3 times(dropped to 145 once and 165 twice) Id be alot further... BUT at least Im at my pinnacle now and gaining

 

[DaveWalton]

My log:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/109156-my-ectomorph-transformation.html

 

[Brenn]

Keep eating Bro, High density foods are where it's at. Pasta and meat was the thing that finally did it for me.

Along with multis and fruit and salads, for vitamins etc. But the high density foods did the trick.

I've been there bro, as many of us have. Im old now, lol, but I was a 5'11" 140lb freshman in highschool. By the time I left college, I was 260 @ 6'2". I was a bit piggy compared to now, but still under 20% (hydrostatic). No AAS then BTW, as we were tested.

With little knowledge, I did this: I ate 2 boneless skinless chicken breasts for breakfast, with a plate of pasta and same for dinner. I mean a plate, bro. Overflowing with pasta. It changed my metabolism and set up the whole day and in the evening, set up the recovery for sleep. It sucked, and made me lethargic in the morning. But it worked. 4 meals in between with protein/carb shakes also.

I simply had to be big and recover, or no performance on the field or gym, and no scholarship. No choice. Eat, Eat, Eat.

There is a threshold for growth for you, is it 6000cals? 5500? Your body will know. Dont worry about getting fat. Once the abs disappear or get clouded, just back it off a bit.

Like lifting, you gotta give your body more than it can handle.

Good luck.

 

[Doubravkody]

yea dont give up man, im the same way, i started working out my senior year, weighed less than a 100 pounds at 5'5, joined this site, got advice from friends, now im at 132, which ive been at for freakiing who knows how long, which is extremly annoying cuz i want to get to 150 haha, but i kno its cuz i need to eat more , and im trying, u alot taller than me, so i suggest eating in ur sleep as well haha but dont give up... ask questions on here and get advice, and use it, lot of people kno their **** on here...

 

[ari4216]

how much fat intake are u getting in?

u know i might look into doing a CKD diet, ie a low carb diet that still allows you to use glycogen,by having carb load days.

Diets like CKD and the anabolic diet boost testosterone levels, carbs decrease it. So by mainly just eating fats and protein your natural levels of testosterone will be elevated.

 

[ari4216]

"In the Penn State study, the subjects eating moderate fat exhibited higher testosterone levels than the subjects eating low fat - this finding merely confirmed previous studies demonstrating that dietary fat is positively linked with testosterone levels."

 

[ari4216]

"More impressively, the Penn State researchers showed that the effect of dietary fat on testosterone levels depended on the kind of fat consumed. Specifically, they found that monounsaturated and saturated fat raise testosterone levels, but polyunsaturated fat does not (Faigin, pp. 329-330, emphasis in original)."

Moreover, it is not just any fat, but saturated fatty acids (SFA) and monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFA) that raise T levels. Polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) do not.

As such, "… restricting total fat intake *and replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat (exactly what the experts are telling you to do) would appear to be the perfect prescription for lowering your testosterone levels!

However, it is not necessary to consume a lot of saturated fat. A response to a letter on asking about how to raise T levels reported about a study that showed, "Men with the highest testosterone levels ate nuts! Yes, monounsaturated fat seems to increase testosterone levels, so include nuts, olive oil, canola oil, and peanut butter!"

Moreover, foods high in healthy Omega 3s fatty acids would also be good sources of T-raising fat. The best sources of omega 3s are fatty fish like mackerel, herrings, sardines, tuna, sturgeon, and salmon. But they are also found in plant foods like walnuts, pumpkin seeds, flax seeds, flax seed oil, and canola oil (Collins).

most nutritionists would say that whole eggs and red meat are bad for you, but there great for building muscle.

But majority of fats can be taken from healthy sources, but there are properties or red meat and wholes eggs that i think are needed,both of these contain high levels of arichindonic acid, and a bunch of other high soluble b vitamins.

Maybe you are doing this alreayd,i dont know.

 

[nofx4110]

I am in the same boat as you Dave. I ****ing hate it when people call me skinny. I started working out when I was 20 at 120 lbs after my gf dumped me for the way I treated my body :whinerI did drugs in college and hiked all the time). Fortunately I didn't get hooked. I had a blast doing it though, and I have no regrets. :drunk:

It has been almost 3 years now and the most I weighed was 185 earlier this year until this summer when I sat around with my gf eating ice cream and having sex (I lost 15 lbs on the sex and ice cream diet!). I researched steroids for a long time and decided its not worth it.

When i was experimenting I did some pills or lines here and there but I had a rule to keep clean for at least a week after partying (beer and pot excluded). Steroids are a drug you use everyday for a month. They makes you lose your hair, and shrinks your junk. Even though my gf complains about my penis being to big, (a whooping 2" when erect) I like it the way it is.

Just be patient Dave. Listen to everyones advice (especially suncloud). eat 1g of protein for 1 lb of weight and don't overtrain. It may come slower for us, but don't forget, it is coming.

The most important thing is attitude. Giving up is not an option. Stay positive :thumbsup:

 

[somewhatgifted]

I am in the same boat as you Dave. I ****ing hate it when people call me skinny. I started working out when I was 20 at 120 lbs after my gf dumped me for the way I treated my body :whinerI did drugs in college and hiked all the time). Fortunately I didn't get hooked. I had a blast doing it though, and I have no regrets. :drunk:

It has been almost 3 years now and the most I weighed was 185 earlier this year until this summer when I sat around with my gf eating ice cream and having sex (I lost 15 lbs on the sex and ice cream diet!). I researched steroids for a long time and decided its not worth it.

When i was experimenting I did some pills or lines here and there but I had a rule to keep clean for at least a week after partying (beer and pot excluded). Steroids are a drug you use everyday for a month. They makes you lose your hair, and shrinks your junk. Even though my gf complains about my penis being to big, (a whooping 2" when erect) I like it the way it is.

Just be patient Dave. Listen to everyones advice (especially suncloud). eat 1g of protein for 1 lb of weight and don't overtrain. It may come slower for us, but don't forget, it is coming.

The most important thing is attitude. Giving up is not an option. Stay positive :thumbsup:

I think your trying to motivate the OP but.. damn.

Alot of "i did drugs, alot of drugs, and drank and smoked pot and ate ice cream, i have a 2" penis" could have prolly been omitted for it contributed nothing BUT explaining WHY you are having trouble. You dont have bad genetics just really bad judgement.


Its funny you went from ice cream on the couch to steroids, like that was the obvious progression.

 

[Davis555]

I'm in the same boat. When I first started lifting I was 150 at an age of 18 I barely ate good foods and ate a very low calorie count. A few local powerlifters told me that alot of sleep and alot of food are some of the most important and forgotten anabolic factors. I later followed a hard powerlifting regimen and after 1 year managed to put on some major mass. So like the advice you have been give try some "bread and butter exersices" also evaluate your sleep and try to get more rest in, you grow when you rest!

 

[poopypants]

I am in the same boat as you Dave. I ****ing hate it when people call me skinny. I started working out when I was 20 at 120 lbs after my gf dumped me for the way I treated my body :whinerI did drugs in college and hiked all the time). Fortunately I didn't get hooked. I had a blast doing it though, and I have no regrets. :drunk:

It has been almost 3 years now and the most I weighed was 185 earlier this year until this summer when I sat around with my gf eating ice cream and having sex (I lost 15 lbs on the sex and ice cream diet!). I researched steroids for a long time and decided its not worth it.

When i was experimenting I did some pills or lines here and there but I had a rule to keep clean for at least a week after partying (beer and pot excluded). Steroids are a drug you use everyday for a month. They makes you lose your hair, and shrinks your junk. Even though my gf complains about my penis being to big, (a whooping 2" when erect) I like it the way it is.

Just be patient Dave. Listen to everyones advice (especially suncloud). eat 1g of protein for 1 lb of weight and don't overtrain. It may come slower for us, but don't forget, it is coming.

The most important thing is attitude. Giving up is not an option. Stay positive :thumbsup:

you know steroids DONT shrink your unit right??? just your testes... last time I checked I dont use my testes for anything but making a load to blow... in fact many compounds increase your libido and cause larger and harder erections (with a select few that can actually turn you off from sex and trouble with erections like tren and deca).

Anyways I hate to hear this as its obvious youve been reading steroid propaganda and not steroid research, real research, and real world results.

I respect your personal choices (even though they still seem Fed considering you drug use and diet) but at least refrain from misinforming others about what responsible steroid use can cause or not.

Good day.

 

[nofx4110]

I think your trying to motivate the OP but.. damn.

Alot of "i did drugs, alot of drugs, and drank and smoked pot and ate ice cream, i have a 2" penis" could have prolly been omitted for it contributed nothing BUT explaining WHY you are having trouble. You dont have bad genetics just really bad judgement.


Its funny you went from ice cream on the couch to steroids, like that was the obvious progression.

you know steroids DONT shrink your unit right??? just your testes... last time I checked I dont use my testes for anything but making a load to blow... in fact many compounds increase your libido and cause larger and harder erections (with a select few that can actually turn you off from sex and trouble with erections like tren and deca).

Anyways I hate to hear this as its obvious youve been reading steroid propaganda and not steroid research, real research, and real world results.

I respect your personal choices (even though they still seem Fed considering you drug use and diet) but at least refrain from misinforming others about what responsible steroid use can cause or not.

Good day

If you read closely you will see I said I was in the same boat, meaning I am also an ectomorph (small skeletal structure), and tall. I quit doing drugs a long long time ago. I can also count the number of times i did them on one hand.

I considered steroids before my ice cream diet, and I know it only temporarily shrinks your nuts. Just like my 2" penis, the stuff I wrote about steroids is a joke. Lighten up. I am sorry if I offended anyone.

I would also like to point out that I never claimed to be an expert on steroids, and anyone who read what I wrote as there only research into the subject is an idiot. If you want to know about steroids, go to the steroid section of the forums, and conduct research, don't read jokes.

 

[poopypants]

hey I wasnt reamin you or nothin man, I couldnt tell it was a joke as it was all stated fairly factually (minus the size of your unit, I figured that had to be a joke and was fairly funny) and just wanted to make sure to set the record straight for the OP and the rest of the readers that happen upon this thread.

Context of posts are really hard to decipher when typed as you do... I love smilies for this reason, they arent called emoticons for nothin, they help put your tone in perspective greatly.

see Im happy. lol