Thinking about giving up bodybuilding. Can an ectomorph really get big?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by DaveWalton View Post
    Great post thanks! I suppose I was a little depressed at the realization that I wouldn't be taking steroids. I'm going to try to start aiming for:

    55g protein
    80g carbs
    15g fat

    per meal for 6 meals a day. Also with PLENTY of veggies and fruit and of course lots of water.

    Supps will include:

    weight gainer
    multi
    flaxseed oil capsules
    creatine monohydrate (looking into kre-alkalyn atm...I hear its quite effective when taken with a banana)

    And thank you suncloud for your advice. I will be looking into a program. I'm not sure that 3 times a week is enough though...

    That is still 4050 calories a day. For a guy that is ecto, that probably is not enough to make significant gains. Being an ectomorph myself, I know where you are coming from. A couple years ago I was 5'10 and 135lb. It took awhile but I got up to 155-160 eating 4000-4500 calories/day.
    I recently just did a havoc cycle and now I'm up to 177. My hands, wrists (6") and frame are all always going to be small but the added muscle defintely helps.
    Obviously I'm not trying to get you to take a steroid. But I figure if I had to eat around 4500 to gain significantly at 5'10 and 135, then maybe you should look into throwing in a lot more food.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    smeaton, ectomorph doesnt equal undereater. its a scientific fact that we have bodytypes. Undereater in this sport maybe but even if an ecto over eats they are still ecto.

    its not easy esp being an ecto. if you want to give up then you dont have the patience anyway and you dont deserve to have muscle given to you. Everyone has their battles you have to figure out with time and smart experimentation what works for you. Ecto is not neccassarily a bad thing.

    Definately dont use any steroids either. Up your calories and change your training routine.....add some smart choices as far as supplements go and get good rest. Stay dedicated and be rewarded with hard work in the end. Dont give up

    too get big ectomorph means undereater. Im an ecto and I weigh 240 lbs. In high school before I ever touched a weight I was 150. at 6ft2 that is skinny. senior year i took an elctive weight lifting class and only did chest basically and gained. I was still a twig. 165 maybe. I ate about 1000 calories per day and skateboard for three hoursd per day most days.

    Since Ive gone up to 4k I gained. eat your ass off and then eat some more. the reason your not gaining is your not eating enough. Dante Trudel is a former ecto graduated hs at 6ft and 140lbs..Im also a former ecto now I look damn big when i walk in anywhere. (esp with my dress shoes that I'm about 6ft4 with)

    simple as that..eat more. esp prortein get in 2 lbs of protein per bodyweight when training heavy and intense youll see the difference.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    ectomorph=undereater..
    Completely agree! I've seen results from "hard gainers" who have used the bodybugg arm band device to measure how much calories they burn in a day. These guys were burning 4,000-7,000 calories doing nothing more then weight training in a day. Eat more then you burn and you will gain weight. It's simple. The hard part is stuffing down that many calories. Some man's curse is another man's blessing I guess. I wouldn't give up.. JUST EAT!!! It will take time but slowly each year you will put on more weight..Nothing in life comes easy.. You gotta work hard for good results!
    ôLord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68
  4. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Consider a few things that you younger guys are forgetting - not intended to minimize some of your successes - some guys just grow late.

    When I hear a guy tell me he was 16 or 17 and 140lbs and by the time he was 20 he "put on" 60lb from "his hard work, diet and discipline" I always kind of giggle. I've seen kids put on 60lbs over a year or two after they graduated HS doing absolutely nothing.

    A best friend whom we called "the skinny guinie" was a skinny little kid of 5'7" and 145lbs soaking wet at 18 yo. By the time he hit 21 he was 6'0" and 220.

    Now lifting will keep you fit but you are not done growing you'll just keep growing with or without lifting. Like I said I'm not minimizing, but I wouldn't be so fast to take credit either

    DaveWalton - consider NOT lifting like a bodybuilder for a year. Instead train as a power lifter or Olympic lifter - and eat.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    Consider a few things that you younger guys are forgetting - not intended to minimize some of your successes - some guys just grow late.

    When I hear a guy tell me he was 16 or 17 and 140lbs and by the time he was 20 he "put on" 60lb from "his hard work, diet and discipline" I always kind of giggle. I've seen kids put on 60lbs over a year or two after they graduated HS doing absolutely nothing.

    A best friend whom we called "the skinny guinie" was a skinny little kid of 5'7" and 145lbs soaking wet at 18 yo. By the time he hit 21 he was 6'0" and 220.

    Now lifting will keep you fit but you are not done growing you'll just keep growing with or without lifting. Like I said I'm not minimizing, but I wouldn't be so fast to take credit either

    DaveWalton - consider NOT lifting like a bodybuilder for a year. Instead train as a power lifter or Olympic lifter - and eat.
    to clarify about myself here B, i was 135 in HS (1994). 117 when i turned 18 and joined the army (95). maxed my weight at 145. got out of the army at 135 (99). sunk to 126 when i was 29 (05), and that was the last straw for me.


    ohh... a powerlifter idea. now that's a really good idea!
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    ectomorph=undereater.. eat more and then eat soem more intill you almost cannot stand it. push yourself to that point. and in addition learn what foods to eat. and lift heavy, sleep good
    Being an ectomorph is about more than undereating. It has to do with the bone size and skeletal structure.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by PowerlifterMB View Post
    Being an ectomorph is about more than undereating. It has to do with the bone size and skeletal structure.

    That's exactly right. I could eat 15,000 cals a day and my forearms and calves wouldn't ever be "big". Genetics plays a part, you can't attribute it all to undereating.

  8. well that's kind of a given but the Pro bodybuilders we all see in magazines like flex and muscle mag distorts the image of what we should look like. Those guys have great genetics but do everything possible to maximize their genetic potential including a lot of potentially harmful substances. Let's not let this distort our passion for body building thinking we can never be "big" or what we think is big. There's many local bodybuilding competitions at different weight classes and levels and so on so that anyone who is passionate about the sport can enter. Will everyone win? No.. but atleast you can be involved in what you love.
    ôLord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

  9. Quote Originally Posted by yoked317 View Post
    I gotta go with a more traditional workout than an 8x8, it is said that maximum growth occurs in no more than 4-5 sets, most often in the fourth set, as that should be your max work set. 8x8 is more to get definition and keep size, but not add much, I use similar workout when I am leaning out for a comp in order to striate the muscle and also keep as much mass as possible without losing, i really have no hope to gain any mass when I lean out. heavy compound lifts is really where the money is, I will usually try to hit my two rep max once every 8days or so in all compound exercises, also i throw my muscles for a loop almost every workout, say I do just regular flat bench as my heavy set on chest one chest workout, the next I will do incline with chains on the bar for resistance, or I will do decline negatives till i wanna puke, be creative and ensure that you are working the desired muscle group. my girlfriend sometimes gets irritated that I spend so much time thinking of different ways to shock my muscles, she'd rather see more effort put towards her, but it is an addiction, change some stuff up and i bet you will see some great results. and remember looking into the near future is sometimes disappointing, look 2-3 even four years down the road, it has taken me 3 to put on 20 pounds of muscle naturally. but it was well worth it now looking back. good luck
    Great post once again. I have decided to start with James Chan's "Hypertrophy Training for the Ectomorph". Here's the program:

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ecto...d_training.htm

    It actually utilizes Gironda's 10, 8, 6, 15 pyramid scheme.

    I've also begun to realize that I am not in fact taking in as many calories or enough carbs/protein as I should be. I'm also working on drinking at least a gallon of water a day now. It's tough but I think once of the best ways to accomplish my dietaary needs will be to prepare most of my meals at night before bed so i have them ready to go the next morning.

  10. Overall, I agree with most of what you guys are saying. I still need to take the time to fill out, but eating more (of the right foods of course) will help me to gain...and changing my program to focus on compound lifts will also help. Eating is tough but its what it will take me to get big.

    I've also decided to throw in some cardio 2 times a week. It will be HIIT for 15-20 minutes on the treadmill to burn fat.
  11. Answer: YES


    Proof in the puddin. first pics taken @140lbs same height in 2003. Second pics taken @ 190lbs same height in 2007





    It just takes ALOT of cals to get it going then eventually youll break through. At 21 and 165 lbs I finally resorted to anabolics (Im talkin legal orals, this was a fine choice for me, I hit puberty early and had been the same height since 14, I was done growing long ago) though to push me above and beyond, now its easier to gain natty AND with anabolics I can make great strides. I wouldnt hit them up though till you are of age and have expended many other possibilities.

    You can see in my avi Im even more lean now and another 10lbs heavier then in the pics above.

    Keep at it man, you can do it.

    For now creatine and cals and sleep are your best friends. Check the workout section also for some good routines, maybe the HST program would work well for you.

  12. nice transformation poops!

  13. thanks suncloud! its been a fun trip and if I didnt have to start almost all the way over like 3 times(dropped to 145 once and 165 twice) Id be alot further... BUT at least Im at my pinnacle now and gaining

  14. Keep eating Bro, High density foods are where it's at. Pasta and meat was the thing that finally did it for me.

    Along with multis and fruit and salads, for vitamins etc. But the high density foods did the trick.

    I've been there bro, as many of us have. Im old now, lol, but I was a 5'11" 140lb freshman in highschool. By the time I left college, I was 260 @ 6'2". I was a bit piggy compared to now, but still under 20% (hydrostatic). No AAS then BTW, as we were tested.

    With little knowledge, I did this: I ate 2 boneless skinless chicken breasts for breakfast, with a plate of pasta and same for dinner. I mean a plate, bro. Overflowing with pasta. It changed my metabolism and set up the whole day and in the evening, set up the recovery for sleep. It sucked, and made me lethargic in the morning. But it worked. 4 meals in between with protein/carb shakes also.

    I simply had to be big and recover, or no performance on the field or gym, and no scholarship. No choice. Eat, Eat, Eat.

    There is a threshold for growth for you, is it 6000cals? 5500? Your body will know. Dont worry about getting fat. Once the abs disappear or get clouded, just back it off a bit.

    Like lifting, you gotta give your body more than it can handle.

    Good luck.

  15. yea dont give up man, im the same way, i started working out my senior year, weighed less than a 100 pounds at 5'5, joined this site, got advice from friends, now im at 132, which ive been at for freakiing who knows how long, which is extremly annoying cuz i want to get to 150 haha, but i kno its cuz i need to eat more , and im trying, u alot taller than me, so i suggest eating in ur sleep as well haha but dont give up... ask questions on here and get advice, and use it, lot of people kno their **** on here...

  16. how much fat intake are u getting in?

    u know i might look into doing a CKD diet, ie a low carb diet that still allows you to use glycogen,by having carb load days.

    Diets like CKD and the anabolic diet boost testosterone levels, carbs decrease it. So by mainly just eating fats and protein your natural levels of testosterone will be elevated.

  17. "In the Penn State study, the subjects eating moderate fat exhibited higher testosterone levels than the subjects eating low fat - this finding merely confirmed previous studies demonstrating that dietary fat is positively linked with testosterone levels."

  18. "More impressively, the Penn State researchers showed that the effect of dietary fat on testosterone levels depended on the kind of fat consumed. Specifically, they found that monounsaturated and saturated fat raise testosterone levels, but polyunsaturated fat does not (Faigin, pp. 329-330, emphasis in original)."

    Moreover, it is not just any fat, but saturated fatty acids (SFA) and monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFA) that raise T levels. Polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) do not.

    As such, "… restricting total fat intake *and replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat (exactly what the experts are telling you to do) would appear to be the perfect prescription for lowering your testosterone levels!

    However, it is not necessary to consume a lot of saturated fat. A response to a letter on asking about how to raise T levels reported about a study that showed, "Men with the highest testosterone levels ate nuts! Yes, monounsaturated fat seems to increase testosterone levels, so include nuts, olive oil, canola oil, and peanut butter!"

    Moreover, foods high in healthy Omega 3s fatty acids would also be good sources of T-raising fat. The best sources of omega 3s are fatty fish like mackerel, herrings, sardines, tuna, sturgeon, and salmon. But they are also found in plant foods like walnuts, pumpkin seeds, flax seeds, flax seed oil, and canola oil (Collins).

    most nutritionists would say that whole eggs and red meat are bad for you, but there great for building muscle.

    But majority of fats can be taken from healthy sources, but there are properties or red meat and wholes eggs that i think are needed,both of these contain high levels of arichindonic acid, and a bunch of other high soluble b vitamins.

    Maybe you are doing this alreayd,i dont know.

  19. I am in the same boat as you Dave. I ****ing hate it when people call me skinny. I started working out when I was 20 at 120 lbs after my gf dumped me for the way I treated my body (I did drugs in college and hiked all the time). Fortunately I didn't get hooked. I had a blast doing it though, and I have no regrets.

    It has been almost 3 years now and the most I weighed was 185 earlier this year until this summer when I sat around with my gf eating ice cream and having sex (I lost 15 lbs on the sex and ice cream diet!). I researched steroids for a long time and decided its not worth it.

    When i was experimenting I did some pills or lines here and there but I had a rule to keep clean for at least a week after partying (beer and pot excluded). Steroids are a drug you use everyday for a month. They makes you lose your hair, and shrinks your junk. Even though my gf complains about my penis being to big, (a whooping 2" when erect) I like it the way it is.

    Just be patient Dave. Listen to everyones advice (especially suncloud). eat 1g of protein for 1 lb of weight and don't overtrain. It may come slower for us, but don't forget, it is coming.

    The most important thing is attitude. Giving up is not an option. Stay positive

  20. Quote Originally Posted by nofx4110 View Post
    I am in the same boat as you Dave. I ****ing hate it when people call me skinny. I started working out when I was 20 at 120 lbs after my gf dumped me for the way I treated my body (I did drugs in college and hiked all the time). Fortunately I didn't get hooked. I had a blast doing it though, and I have no regrets.

    It has been almost 3 years now and the most I weighed was 185 earlier this year until this summer when I sat around with my gf eating ice cream and having sex (I lost 15 lbs on the sex and ice cream diet!). I researched steroids for a long time and decided its not worth it.

    When i was experimenting I did some pills or lines here and there but I had a rule to keep clean for at least a week after partying (beer and pot excluded). Steroids are a drug you use everyday for a month. They makes you lose your hair, and shrinks your junk. Even though my gf complains about my penis being to big, (a whooping 2" when erect) I like it the way it is.

    Just be patient Dave. Listen to everyones advice (especially suncloud). eat 1g of protein for 1 lb of weight and don't overtrain. It may come slower for us, but don't forget, it is coming.

    The most important thing is attitude. Giving up is not an option. Stay positive
    I think your trying to motivate the OP but.. damn.

    Alot of "i did drugs, alot of drugs, and drank and smoked pot and ate ice cream, i have a 2" penis" could have prolly been omitted for it contributed nothing BUT explaining WHY you are having trouble. You dont have bad genetics just really bad judgement.


    Its funny you went from ice cream on the couch to steroids, like that was the obvious progression.

  21. I'm in the same boat. When I first started lifting I was 150 at an age of 18 I barely ate good foods and ate a very low calorie count. A few local powerlifters told me that alot of sleep and alot of food are some of the most important and forgotten anabolic factors. I later followed a hard powerlifting regimen and after 1 year managed to put on some major mass. So like the advice you have been give try some "bread and butter exersices" also evaluate your sleep and try to get more rest in, you grow when you rest!

  22. Quote Originally Posted by nofx4110 View Post
    I am in the same boat as you Dave. I ****ing hate it when people call me skinny. I started working out when I was 20 at 120 lbs after my gf dumped me for the way I treated my body (I did drugs in college and hiked all the time). Fortunately I didn't get hooked. I had a blast doing it though, and I have no regrets.

    It has been almost 3 years now and the most I weighed was 185 earlier this year until this summer when I sat around with my gf eating ice cream and having sex (I lost 15 lbs on the sex and ice cream diet!). I researched steroids for a long time and decided its not worth it.

    When i was experimenting I did some pills or lines here and there but I had a rule to keep clean for at least a week after partying (beer and pot excluded). Steroids are a drug you use everyday for a month. They makes you lose your hair, and shrinks your junk. Even though my gf complains about my penis being to big, (a whooping 2" when erect) I like it the way it is.

    Just be patient Dave. Listen to everyones advice (especially suncloud). eat 1g of protein for 1 lb of weight and don't overtrain. It may come slower for us, but don't forget, it is coming.

    The most important thing is attitude. Giving up is not an option. Stay positive
    you know steroids DONT shrink your unit right??? just your testes... last time I checked I dont use my testes for anything but making a load to blow... in fact many compounds increase your libido and cause larger and harder erections (with a select few that can actually turn you off from sex and trouble with erections like tren and deca).

    Anyways I hate to hear this as its obvious youve been reading steroid propaganda and not steroid research, real research, and real world results.

    I respect your personal choices (even though they still seem Fed considering you drug use and diet) but at least refrain from misinforming others about what responsible steroid use can cause or not.

    Good day.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by somewhatgifted View Post
    I think your trying to motivate the OP but.. damn.

    Alot of "i did drugs, alot of drugs, and drank and smoked pot and ate ice cream, i have a 2" penis" could have prolly been omitted for it contributed nothing BUT explaining WHY you are having trouble. You dont have bad genetics just really bad judgement.


    Its funny you went from ice cream on the couch to steroids, like that was the obvious progression.
    Quote Originally Posted by poopypants View Post
    you know steroids DONT shrink your unit right??? just your testes... last time I checked I dont use my testes for anything but making a load to blow... in fact many compounds increase your libido and cause larger and harder erections (with a select few that can actually turn you off from sex and trouble with erections like tren and deca).

    Anyways I hate to hear this as its obvious youve been reading steroid propaganda and not steroid research, real research, and real world results.

    I respect your personal choices (even though they still seem Fed considering you drug use and diet) but at least refrain from misinforming others about what responsible steroid use can cause or not.

    Good day
    If you read closely you will see I said I was in the same boat, meaning I am also an ectomorph (small skeletal structure), and tall. I quit doing drugs a long long time ago. I can also count the number of times i did them on one hand.

    I considered steroids before my ice cream diet, and I know it only temporarily shrinks your nuts. Just like my 2" penis, the stuff I wrote about steroids is a joke. Lighten up. I am sorry if I offended anyone.

    I would also like to point out that I never claimed to be an expert on steroids, and anyone who read what I wrote as there only research into the subject is an idiot. If you want to know about steroids, go to the steroid section of the forums, and conduct research, don't read jokes.

  24. hey I wasnt reamin you or nothin man, I couldnt tell it was a joke as it was all stated fairly factually (minus the size of your unit, I figured that had to be a joke and was fairly funny) and just wanted to make sure to set the record straight for the OP and the rest of the readers that happen upon this thread.

    Context of posts are really hard to decipher when typed as you do... I love smilies for this reason, they arent called emoticons for nothin, they help put your tone in perspective greatly.

    see Im happy. lol
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