- 01-25-2013, 04:11 AM
- 01-25-2013, 04:26 AM
- 01-25-2013, 02:40 PM
01-25-2013, 02:45 PM
01-25-2013, 05:55 PM
Any opinions of DHEA here?
I've been refamiliarizing myself with its metabolism. Seems like we could get a decent amount of 5AD with 4AD here, some 7-keto, and of course the inherent effects of DHEA itself.
But would it be beneficial in the grand scheme assuming some kind of negative feedback. I dunno. Just sandboxing it for now.
01-26-2013, 12:59 PM
dang, I don't like hearing that about 7, 8 benzoflavone . I was about to pick up several bottles of Dermacrine when they were back in stock. I was looking forward to stacking it with with Havoc in the near future, but now I'm thinking twice. Are there any good topical Dhea products that don't have that in it that you would recommend? Hhhmmm, maybe you could make something ? Sorry to get off topic!
01-28-2013, 01:13 AM
01-28-2013, 01:17 AM
01-28-2013, 03:07 PM
01-28-2013, 03:16 PM
01-29-2013, 05:04 PM
Environ Health Perspect. 1990 Aug;88:117-21.
Role of metabolic activation in the carcinogenicity of estrogens: studies in an animal liver tumor model.
Metzler M, Blaich G, Tritscher AM.
Institute of Pharmacology and Toxicology, University of Würzburg, Federal Republic of Germany.
Male Syrian golden hamsters chronically exposed to certain synthetic estrogens such as diethylstilbestrol (DES) or 17 alpha-ethinylestradiol (EE2) and fed a diet containing 7,8-benzoflavone (BF) develop a high incidence of liver tumors. No such tumors are found in animals treated with estrogen or BF alone. To clarify the role of metabolic activation of the estrogen and BF in the mechanism of hepatocarcinogenesis in this animal model, the effects of pretreatment with DES and EE2 alone and in combination with BF on the metabolism of DES, EE2, and BF in hepatic microsomes, isolated hepatocytes, and hamster bile were studied. Hamsters were pretreated for up to 32 weeks. The results clearly show that DES metabolism was not significantly modified under any pretreatment regimen. EE2 metabolism exhibited a slight increase in 2-hydroxylation after pretreatment with BF and with BF plus EE2. The most pronounced effect was observed in BF metabolism after pretreatment with BF, with BF plus DES, and with BF plus EE2: the metabolic rate was increased and several new metabolites that were not found in untreated or estrogen-pretreated animals were formed. These metabolites were tentatively identified as BF-dihydrodiol and dihydroxy-BFs. The formation of these new BF metabolites was accompanied by a change in the activities of certain cytochrome P-450 isoenzymes in hamster liver microsomes. The results of this study imply that metabolic activation of 7,8 benzoflavone rather than of the estrogens plays an important role in the mechanism of carcinogenesis in this animal liver tumor model.
PMID:2272305 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
01-29-2013, 05:06 PM
Effect of pretreatment of male Syrian golden hamsters with 7,8-benzoflavone and with diethylstilbestrol on P-450 isoenzyme activities and on microsomal diethylstilbestrol metabolism.
Blaich G, Metzler M.
Institute of Pharmacology and Toxicology, University of Würzburg, F.R.G.
Combined treatment of male Syrian golden hamsters with the synthetic estrogen diethylstilbestrol (DES) and 7,8-benzoflavone (7,8-BF) gives rise to a high incidence of hepatocellular carcinomas. To determine whether alterations in DES metabolism may account for the observed hepatocarcinogenicity, we have studied the effect of pretreatment with 7,8-BF alone, DES alone and 7,8-BF plus DES on the levels of hepatic P-450 and cytochrome b5, on the activities of various P-450 isoenzymes and on microsomal DES metabolism. Hepatic P-450 content was significantly increased after pretreatment with 7,8-BF and decreased after DES, while combined pretreatment led to levels similar to those in untreated control animals. Hepatic cytochrome b5 was also elevated in 7,8-BF-treated hamsters; DES pretreatment had no effect, and combined pretreatment led to a slight increase. Four different substrates were used to probe P-450 isoenzyme activity. Aryl hydrocarbon hydroxylase (AHH), 7-ethoxycoumarin-O-deethylase (ECOD), 7-ethoxyresorufin-O-deethylase (EROD) and 7-pentoxyresorufin-O-dealkylase (PROD) were all elevated after 7,8-BF-pretreatment, while DES led to a decrease in these activities with the exception of AHH, where a transient increase which was observed after 8 and 20 weeks of pretreatment was back to control levels after 32 weeks. Combined pretreatment with 7,8-BF and DES led to an intermediate response (slight increase) with AHH, EROD and PROD, but not with ECOD, where a full induction comparable with that observed after 7,8-BF alone was elicited. In spite of the modulation of enzyme levels and activities observed after the various pretreatments, the metabolism of DES in microsomes from pretreated animals was virtually identical with that from controls. Therefore it is concluded that modulation of hepatic DES metabolism is not the reason for the observed hepatotumorigenicity; instead, it is speculated that 7,8-BF is the carcinogenic agent in this tumor model, and DES may act as a promotor.
PMID:3199832 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
01-29-2013, 05:47 PM
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BLACK LION RESEARCH
Supplements for bodybuilders
01-29-2013, 08:37 PM
It's understandable to be worried, but how much do you know about the amount of BF they were fed, how this correlates to the amount in whatever thing you're discussing and the ability to translate things that happen in Syrian golden hamsters to humans.
Hey it may be super bad for you, but those studies don't really say that
01-29-2013, 08:42 PM
01-30-2013, 05:27 AM
01-30-2013, 07:32 AM
01-30-2013, 09:22 AM
Just finished my 1st bottle, or thought I was finished...
No more would pump out but when I opened the cap, a lot was still at the bottom and sides. So for the past 3 days, I've been just pouring some out without the pump.
01-30-2013, 09:50 AM
01-30-2013, 02:20 PM
I've used Erase in the past and liked my results. But I will say that Formeron has now replaced that.
01-30-2013, 02:47 PM
EvoMuse Products Rep
PM me with any questions!
01-30-2013, 03:38 PM
01-30-2013, 03:40 PM
EvoMuse Products Rep
PM me with any questions!
01-30-2013, 05:18 PM
Just got my bottle today. Like others have said, it does smell pretty nice. However, there's a bunch of undissolved crystals (what I'm guessing is the 4-OHA) in the gel which seem to just hang around on the skin surface. Is this normal? Has the 4-OHA fallen out of solution?
01-30-2013, 05:23 PM
01-30-2013, 07:00 PM
Only a small% gets through the skin.
Androgel has an expected top end absorption rate of 10%. which is actually pretty good.
Formeron is about the same.
the crystals will brush off or try some alcohol based hand sanitizer on the application site about 15 min after application.
01-31-2013, 06:42 PM
02-03-2013, 05:52 PM
02-03-2013, 08:33 PM
02-05-2013, 11:26 AM
No kidding I just ordered some sand paper to apply my formeron with I think it will absorb better that way
02-05-2013, 11:33 AM
Been on formeron for the last four to five days. SD gave me some pain in my left nipple. Been on two pumps for those four to five days and the pains gone. I will say ive been pumping the bottle smooth, slow and soft and theres no way the bottles lasting 30 days.
Side note* i like the smell of formeron.
02-08-2013, 12:46 AM
02-08-2013, 08:26 AM
02-15-2013, 12:04 PM
I´m applying Formeron, finally !
Applying 1 full pump after the shower, post workout. Than repeating 10 hours later, pre-bed. Is that fine ?
I´m using solo on a cut
02-16-2013, 07:19 PM
Just about finished my bottle up, been using 2 pumps a day for 3 weeks, 1 pump for the last week, not really pumping anymore but probably 5-6ml left in the bottle, think my pump was putting out 2+ml per pump though. Oddly at 2 pumps it didn't hurt my joints but for the last few days at 1 pump a day my joints have been hurting when lifting. Go figure, either it was more highly concentrated at the bottom or I had very high estro levels starting out.
Anyways, as for the results, I am back up to the heaviest I was on cycle though fatter, strength is also up, benching more than ever, possibly not chinning quite as much but I blame programming for that.
Not sure if I can thank formeron or my bulk but this is awesome, I only hope my test levels stay elevated above normal for a while, or at least don't drop below pre cycle levels.
02-17-2013, 03:32 AM
02-19-2013, 05:07 PM
02-19-2013, 11:00 PM
02-25-2013, 09:47 AM
Hi, i'm 25 at 97kg and have gone through 4 bottles of Formeron. Its a great product and i haven't noticed any negative sides running at 4 pumps a day. I'm keen to keep using Formeron just need reassuring its not suppressive to run at 4 pumps for a prolonged period of time? Any help? It really is a good product. I tend to be a low responder to supplements so when a good one comes about i try to make it a staple.
Thanks in advance.
02-25-2013, 05:05 PM
Hey guys. Quick question, maybe Brundel can help me out. I was running some Test E at around 600mgs per week for about 12 weeks. Trying to bulk maybe 10 -15 pounds. My starting weight was 274 ( i'm just under 6ft 5 and I am in the wrestling business so looks are extremely important). After 12 weeks I ballooned up to 314. I never had to use an Anti or anything. So I heard from one of the guys in FLA that running hgh frag 177-191 after test will help cut. So I tried it. nope- 2 weeks later i was at 334. I'm retaining so much water its not even funny. the Last week I started a STRICT diet of high protein- low to moderate carbs - low to moderate fats with cardio in the morning and at night. He recommended your product for this very purpose so I placed an order for 2 from inside the gym on my cell. Will this product work for helping me kick that extra water and the estrogen levels? Atleast help me from walking around like a giant water balloon? lol