There's no reason to start hating on the bioscience products. Just because someone else was SOL on the product doesn't mean the same for you. Alot of people have run it with TRN and experienced great results. 12-15 lb results. Stack that with some Phera or SD and it should be a successful cycle. Now with each of my cycles I seem to always be able to squeeze out a good 5-10 lbs. Which is nice. also Revenge seemed to work well for me back in the day. I've never tried the white label sealed one's but the others were great.