BCAA Supplementation Roundtable

[B5150]

BCAA Supplementation Roundtable
by Jamie Hale

Do we need BCAA supplementation? The debate rages on.

The following is an excerpt from Jamie Hale’s new book Knowledge and Nonsense: the science of nutrition and exercise.

J. Hale: Many contest preparation specialists promote the use of mega doses of BCAAs even when the person is in a positive calorie balance and eating a ton of protein. Have you seen any evidence or is there a logical reason to assume BCAAs from supplements are superior to BCAAs found in food?

D. Moore: No, this is completely wrong. If eating within maintenance levels with adequate protein, you will already be getting sufficient BCAA content. Let’s think about this. Most whole food proteins (including protein drinks) are made up of about 15 percent BCAA. Therefore, a 220-lb bodybuilder who eats 2 grams/pound/day is already receiving about 66 grams of BCAA per day. Even if cutting, most bodybuilders still eat sufficient protein. Therefore, he would still be consuming sufficient BCAA. I think somehow people started to believe that BCAAs are magical where lean mass retention is concerned.

I think most believe that during exercise our bodies are utilizing huge amounts of BCAAs for energy. While we do use some, the increase is far smaller than other macronutrients. In fact, the increased turnover in protein from exercise is only about two- to three-fold versus 20- to 30-fold for carbohydrate and fats. Now, of course, this protein should be replaced. However, I don’t believe it’s necessary to increase BCAA ingestion above what is already consumed in whole protein.

Of the three BCAAs, leucine appears to be the most important in stimulating protein synthesis in skeletal muscle. The consumption of leucine alone is nearly as effective in stimulating protein synthesis as supplying all three BCAAs. Of course, creating a synthetic environment would be very advantageous to a bodybuilder. If this could occur to any great extent during a cutting session, that would be even more advantageous. Unfortunately, there is little scientific evidence to support the idea that in a hypo-caloric state, increasing BCAA content above what is obtained from food is necessary or of any consequential advantage in increasing synthetic rates.

Recently, it was reported that co-ingestion of protein and leucine with carbohydrate stimulates muscle protein synthesis and optimizes whole-body protein balance when compared with the intake of carbohydrates alone after 45 minutes of resistance exercise. There may be some accumulating evidence now that supports the idea that orally-ingested BCAAs have an anti-catabolic effect during and after exercise. But again, there is nothing in the scientific literature that shows that these BCAAs must be supplied in a separate form from whole food.

There may be some relationship to BCAA and fatigue from low intensity, long duration exercise, but this isn’t something most bodybuilders have to be concerned with. Unless of course, their pre-contest preparation involves very long durations of exercise and they have a low fatigue threshold that they wish to increase.

J. Harris: I'm more of a fan of BCAAs in the off-season. BCAAs, specifically the BCAA, L-leucine, are very anabolic compounds. They are somewhat insulinogenic in their actions, and L-leucine is shown to essentially be the specific amino acid trigger for protein synthesis. Because of this, I feel they can provide benefits above and beyond the typical amino acid profile found in most foods. Unfortunately, when dieting, we are not looking for a state of anabolism. We are looking to halt catabolism. BCAAs can be utilized directly by the body for energy, which is a different mechanism than other amino acids.

I believe in their benefit so much (especially around weight training sessions) that I formulated my own product called “anatrop.” Antrop contains specific amounts of BCAAs and L-leucine, which I feel creates a higher level of anabolism when the body is most receptive to those nutrients.

B. Haycock: BCAAs are great as a pre-workout supplement, especially when taken with a good amount of carbs. Outside of that, they are not a very good use of one’s money. A regular protein drink or other high quality protein will work just fine for the rest of the day.

M. Berkhan: No, you get plenty off BCAAs from food protein sources, especially whey protein. There’s nothing showing any benefit of excessive dosing. Because BCAAs are very glucogenic, they will most likely end up in your bloodstream as glucose. Bodybuilders who eat piles of protein and consume BCAAs on the side are throwing money down the drain.

 

[B5150]

A. Aragon: No, supplemental BCAA is not necessary unless you’re not consuming enough high quality protein. Bodybuilders get marketed to death about the benefits of free-form BCAA when there’s no OBJECTIVE evidence of their benefit over the pre-existing BCAA within the matrix of real food. People forget that BCAA is abundant in many foods in nature, especially animal proteins. I base all of my beliefs and recommendations on scientific evidence, not subjective placebo and marketing driven testimony. You can be sure that if someone believes (by whatever means it took to convince him) that extra BCAA will work, it will. However, it’s the belief that’s the active agent, not the BCAA.

You can create the same effect by convincing someone that a lucky rabbit’s foot in his right pocket will increase his lifting strength. If the person is truly convinced or even if the person has deeply vested hopes in the product or protocol, it indeed will work. The mind has powerful effects on the body. It always has and always will.

Until I see solid replicated scientific evidence of the benefits of stacking supplemental BCAA on top of a pre-existing high protein intake (as compared to simply increasing total protein), I’m not going to buy into the hype. I’ve even experimented with my athletic clientele and had them ditch supplemental BCAA in favor of an increased protein intake. Not only did I save them a lot of money, but their performance and body composition continues to improve. I know that it’s not a tightly controlled experiment, but it definitely puts me at ease that I’m not missing out on any “magic.”

L. Norton: BCAAs have been shown in scientific research to increase protein synthesis and reduce protein degradation. However, many people suggest that one can just increase their consumption of whey protein, which is rich in BCAAs. Unfortunately, this is not the case. The BCAAs in whey are peptide bound to other amino acids and must be liberated through digestion and absorbed into the bloodstream in order to exert their effects. Even though whey protein is relatively fast digesting, it still takes several hours for all of the amino acids to be liberated and absorbed into the bloodstream. However, BCAAs in supplement form are free-form BCAAs and require no digestion. Therefore, they are rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream, spiking blood amino acids to a much greater extent than peptide bound amino acids.

Even a few grams of BCAAs will spike plasma levels to a much greater extent than a 30 gram dose of whey protein. It will also impact protein synthesis to a greater degree (van Loon et al). The reason a supplement has such a powerful effect on the blood levels of BCAAs is that unlike other amino acids, BCAAs are not metabolized to a significant extent by the small intestine or the liver. Therefore, an oral supplement is almost like a BCAA injection because it reaches the bloodstream so rapidly.

Additional Comments

M. McDougal: The usefulness of BCAA supplementation in a hypercaloric state depends on a few factors. If one is eating significantly above maintenance calories with lots of protein, benefit may be limited. However, for the most part I’m not a big fan of eating well above maintenance unless one is trying to hit a weight goal under a time constraint.

Unless somebody has a very long way to go with either muscle gain or fat loss (super skinny or obese), I’d rather see people following more of a dialed in re-comping approach involving adding small amounts of muscle and dropping small amounts of fat concurrently.

Under these circumstances, I think one can find value in adding high doses of BCAA, especially during and after workouts. This way, one can keep their total calories lower to minimize fat gain while still keeping protein synthesis high by reaping the benefits the mTOR cascade we’ve all heard so much about in the past year. In my experience, one could reduce daily calories by about 300-500 and not sacrifice any lean body mass if BCAA intake is high enough around workouts.

Aside from potentiating a lower calorie re-comp, a high dose of BCAA during workouts (30-40g) tends to significantly reduce DOMS. In addition to the empirical evidence, this was also demonstrated in a study last year out of Japan with athletes finding reduced soreness after a squat workout. I don’t really care about being less sore, but what I do care about is being able to effectively train 3-4 extra days out of the month due to accelerated recovery.

 

[B5150]

My Thoughts: If you are consuming a sufficient quantity of protein there is no need for BCAA supplementation (from a physiological standpoint). It is hard to get this point across to athletes who have been supplementing with BCAAs for the past 5-6 years (or longer). Dietary Supplementation seems to offer a psychological benefit to some athletes (because that’s what they have always done and many don’t like change). If this is the case BCAAs may be beneficial.

About the Contributors

Marc McDougal is the President of Evolution Training Concepts, a company that takes cutting edge training and nutrition practices into the corporate environment. Marc studied exercise and sports science at Colorado State University, and has been working in the training/strength coaching field since 1997. He is an experienced fitness writer, with many published articles in the area of strength training, nutrition, rehab, and performance enhancement. Not only has Marc published articles in numerous fitness magazines and webzines, but he also gives seminars to high school and college athletes on performance enhancement; and has been interviewed on BodybuildingRadio.com, appeared in a television interview about his nutrition methods.

Jamie Hale is the author of Knowledge and Nonsense: the Science of Nutrition and Exercise.

Bryan Haycock, MS is widely recognized as the creator of hypertrophy specific training (HST). HST arose out of the latest in muscle cell research and has rapidly gained a worldwide following. Bryan is also a well-know writer/speaker in the bodybuilding industry and has gained an exceptionally strong reputation for his expertise in the nutrition and exercise physiology fields. He has a masters in exercise physiology, has served as an NPC judge, and has been certified through the NSCA (CSCS) and ACE.

Justin Harris is a top national bodybuilding champion and nationally qualified powerlifting champion with an elite classification at 275 lbs. He is the owner of Troponin Nutrition and Troponin supplements [edit:removed link] and is sponsored by Optimum Nutrition, American Bodybuilding, EliteFTS, and True Protein. He has a degree in exercise science and echocardiography and has been published at MuscularDevelopment.com. He’s also been featured in Ironman Magazine and is seen each month in Flex, Muscle and Fitness, and Muscular Development. Justin is the nutritional editor of Great Lakes Fitness Extreme [edit: removed link] and has been featured on the cover of Optimum Lifestyles, American Hardline, and Great Lakes Fitness Extreme magazines. [edit: removed link]

Dan Moore is the founder of MaxStimulation and Hypertrophy-Research. He is recognized worldwide as one of the leading authorities on hypertrophy research. Dan served as primary research associate for Jamie Hale’s book, Protein Essentials.

Martin Berkhan has pioneered the concept of intermittent fasting in combination with weightlifting in order to improve body composition. The diet has sparked controversy and is the antithesis of the traditional, high meal frequency diets usually employed by bodybuilders. Martin is a personal trainer and magazine writer living in Sweden. He has a bachelor’s degree in medical sciences and education with a major in public health sciences.

Alan Aragon has over thirteen years of success in the fitness field. He earned his Bachelors and Masters of Nutritional Science with top honors. Alan is a continuing education provider for the Commission on Dietetic Registration, the National Academy of Sports Medicine, the American Council on Exercise, and the National Strength and Conditioning Association. Visit his website at.

Layne Norton is a IFPA and NGA professional.

References

1. Koopman R, Wagenmakers AJ, Manders RJ, Zorenc AH, Senden JM, Gorselink M, Keizer HA, van Loon LJ (2005) Combined ingestion of protein and free leucine with carbohydrate increases post-exercise muscle protein synthesis in vivo in male subjects. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 288(4):E645–53.

2. Norton LE, Layman DK, Garlick PJ, Brana D, Anthony TG, Zhao L, Devkota S, and Walker DA (2007) Translational controls of skeletal muscle protein synthesis are delayed and prolonged associated with ingestion of a complete meal. Experimental Biology meeting abstracts [on CD-ROM], abstract #694.6.

3. Bohe J, Low JF, Wolfe RR, Rennie MJ (2001) Latency and duration of stimulation of human muscle protein synthesis during continuous infusion of amino acids. J Physiol 532(Pt 2):575–9.

EDIT: Links edited to comply with board rules. Reference the article source at M&M linked above.

 

[tattoopierced1]

very good read... When it comes to BCAAs, I trust Layne completely.

 

[Sir Savage]

Awesome.

 

[Topfueljunkie]

Awesome post

Awesome.

x2!

Good post B. I just recently ran across a whole slew of info on pre and post workout nutrition (primarily from Eric Serrano) and it gives me a whole different look at what I'm taking in pre and pwo. I have always used the typical PWO whey protein shake mixed with malto and/or dex but after having read the recommendations of Serrano and others I realize I am better off taking free form amino acids and a BCAA product and not consuming my typical whey/malto shake till 30-45 minutes later. From what I've read, many people using this protocol report much better recovery and growth. This is just another good article on the whole subject. Thanks for the info man!

 

[B5150]

Well I am still skeptical. There was contradictions in that article that both stand to reason.

Maybe you could elaborate for us what you used to do and what you do now. Provide reference to Dr. Serranos articles (I have read a few) if you have them.

I just don't know if the benefits are significant enough to merit the effort and expense...and then still use my whey as well.

 

[Steveoph]

Yea I read that roundtable a week ago I trust all those authors. I mainly use BCAA's if I haven't had a pre-WO meal for atleast an hour. I also really like the lemonade flavour of Xtend, but I think in the future I'll reorder a 1 kilo tub of leucine and not BCAA's.

I also am interested in those articles by Serrano if you could post a link.

 

[EasyEJL]

L. Norton:
Even a few grams of BCAAs will spike plasma levels to a much greater extent than a 30 gram dose of whey protein. It will also impact protein synthesis to a greater degree (van Loon et al). The reason a supplement has such a powerful effect on the blood levels of BCAAs is that unlike other amino acids, BCAAs are not metabolized to a significant extent by the small intestine or the liver. Therefore, an oral supplement is almost like a BCAA injection because it reaches the bloodstream so rapidly.

I find this piece really interesting, and it also makes sense. the 10g of BCAA in 30g of whey could take 2-3 hours between digestion and enzymatic action. So sure it will keep a higher level over time, but I could see where immediately pre + post workout 5g of bcaa each would be more valuable

 

[B5150]

The issue that seems to contradict this (authors stated it as well in the article) is that if I already have a high protein (BCAA rich) diet does this matter because I should already have suffcient 'stores' going into and or coming out of my workout.

In the event that supplementing with BCAA is the 'optimum' anabolic enviroment timing supported in 'studies' does this equate to significant tangible results, other than 'optimization', that merit the use.

 

[EasyEJL]

I'm not sure it does matter, that is debatable for sure. But with a kilo of BCAA costing $35, I think the 35 cent investment per workout isn't too bad. could be just a dollar a week for many people.

 

[B5150]

Dr. Serrano recommends .3g/kg/bw divided pre and post.

So that equates for me to roughly 85kilo x .3g = 25g. One kilo will provide 40 servings at $0.88 per day and $3.50 a week at 4 w/o a week. A kilo would last 10 weeks.

I agree, it is debatable, and rather inexpensive if done in moderation.

 

[nelix]

I think it would be expensive to do a long term study on BCAA, most studies are based on endurance... Which is not what I would imagine bcaa are good for, I pretty much see bcaa as cheap hydrolysed protein...

 

[EasyEJL]

Dr. Serrano recommends .3g/kg/bw divided pre and post.

So that equates for me to roughly 85kilo x .3g = 25g. One kilo will provide 40 servings at $0.88 per day and $3.50 a week at 4 w/o a week. A kilo would last 10 weeks.

I agree, it is debatable, and rather inexpensive if done in moderation.

I was just going with Norton's "a few grams of BCAA will spike you more than 30g of whey", and counting it as 5 pre and 5 post.

 

[silverSurfer]

I do not have any scientific proof that BCAAs work. However I can speak from personal experience that I recover a lot faster and feel better since I started taking BCAAs a couple of months ago.
Before then, I was using the conventional food + pre and post workout approach to dieting, now I drink BCAAs with my daily water intake throughout the day and I simply feel so much better.
Recently I ordered 1 kilo of L-Leucine and started adding it to my BCAA mix. Can't tell the difference yet but I'm sure I will.

 

[T-Bone]

I never used to take them and just tried Xtend recently. Now I think I'm hooked. They help me with endurance for my cardio, now that I have to wait till my new order comes and I am off the Xtend I feel a big difference in my cardio workout(feels like I'm dragin).

 

[Topfueljunkie]

Maybe you could elaborate for us what you used to do and what you do now. Provide reference to Dr. Serranos articles (I have read a few) if you have them.

The articles section (particularly the nutrition section of the articles section) of the infinity fitness website has alot of info on Dr. Serrano's recommendations (as well as Scott Mendelson's recommendations) on the use of free form amino acids and BCAA's pre and pwo (on an empty stomach). They also both suggest using this combo first thing in the morning before eating and right before bed, again on an empty stomach as well as between meals.
The idea (according to Serrano's own research and experience and testing in thousands of clients - as he claims) was that these free form aminos, since they are already broken down bypass digestion (they're already broken down therefore no digestion needed before entering the bloodstream) and also don't get catabolized by the liver which could otherwise convert these EAAs to other aminos. Having food in the stomach upon consumption of these free form aminos (EAAs and BCAAs) slows down the speed at which these aminos enter the bloodstream. Blood is also taken away from the muscles in the process of digestion so using these specialized free form aminos allows blood to stay in the muscles where it's most useful transporting nutrients instead of being used for digestion. Taken preworkout, these aminos minimize protein breakdown and serve as an energy souce (even above carbs in anaerobic exercise! - somewhere in the above mentioned articles I believe this was mentioned). Taken PWO, they are the fastest way of getting EAAs and BCAAs into the bloodstream without having to wait for whole proteins (and carbs if you use them in your pwo shake) to digest before entering circulation in the blood.
I've read several articles from Serrano on BB.com as well as T-nation.com (SHHH! Don't tell anyone I visit those sites! ;-P ) Now when you go to the infinity fitness website and read those articles, I'll admit that, yes, those articles are laden with pics and references to their own products so they definitely have something to gain by writing those articles and making the claims they do but in the end it'll come down to personal experience and I have to add that the anecdotal experience on boards that I've seen is OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE. I'd imagine that most people agree that Dr. Serrano is no hack either so I tend to believe him when he says something. There were several studies cited in his articles as well as a few others I read which back up what he says.....Just wish I could remember were I found 'em!
I JUST started using his protocols on EAA and BCAA supplementation so it's too early to tell any difference yet. Specifically I'm using Purple Wraath and ICE adjusting the dose of each to match label recommendations of the SST products advertised on infinity fitness. I may yet try their (infinity) own BCAA and EAA products and compare the two against the ICE and P. Wraath.
As far as what I used to do I used to just have a pre wo shake of 50g malto and 25g of ON's whey (or I would use their Aftermax product which I liked too). The pwo shake would be the same.
I can say that after having a taken a solid two month break from the weights after my first workout consisting of arms, chest, and back, that I was SOOOORE the following day and 48hrs following the workout it was even worse, I could barely put on my shirt in the morning it was so painful to move my arms and chest. Really though, it's a good feeling! That first workout I used the pre and post whey/malto shake protocol. HOWEVER, 4 days later when the pain was totally gone I picked up some ICE and P. Wraath and, using Serrano's recommendations on EAA and BCAA dosing (pre and PWO), I conducted my first leg workout in over two months. Yes I was sore for several days after but it wasn't ANYWHERE NEAR AS BAD as I was expecting and have had in the past after only taking a two week break from the weights (using the pre and pwo shake). You guess is as good as mine whether or not the ICE and P. Wraath (with Doc Serrano's rec's) contributed to the faster recovery and relatively quicker dissipation of the pain but all I can do is report my good results.
In the future I will report back more thoroughly with my results on the EAAs and BCAAs. This is a very interesting topic for me and one I've been spending a great deal of time researching lately and appreciate any and all links, info, or studies anyone can provide. Let's keep this great thread going!

 

[B5150]

Topfueljunkie, Thanks for the very detailed reply.

Based on what I have gleened from his BCAA recommendation, he is suggesting .3g/kg/bw split pre and post. For myself that would equate to 25g total or 12.5g pre and 12.5g post.

When you are using this protocol pre and post are you using no carbohydrates?

I understand that he goes on to suggest that you should still consume a post workout meal that could be fast(er) digesting protein and carbs.

How soon after are your post workout BCAA are you consuming your post workout shake (carbs and whey) or meal? Or are you?

 

[B5150]

I think it would be expensive to do a long term study on BCAA, most studies are based on endurance... Which is not what I would imagine bcaa are good for, I pretty much see bcaa as cheap hydrolysed protein...

You might be on to something here.

Hydrolyzed can be bought at ~$10/lb.

1kilo (2.2lb) BCAA at $35 is equal to ~$16/lb.

 

[B5150]

Seems the "Bump Thread" in the Thread Tools is presently not functioning. So I'll manually bump this for some more discussion.

 

[B5150]

Come on now. No one?

We have IntraBolic pre workout that uses both Hydrolyzed and EAA.

We have Golden Finish post workout that uses both Hydrolyzed and BCAA/EAA.

Both are way too pricey for my taste. But I believe their concept stands to reason and discussion.

Anyway.

 

[EasyEJL]

well, part of the question with those is the small volume of BCAAs vs total cost. So although $10/lb sounds cheaper than $16/lb, in that pound of BCAAs you get 1lb of BCAAs. in a pound of hydrolyzed proteins you get about 4oz of BCAA if I recall the ratios right.

 

[B5150]

That's a good point.

So this may be a pro to use BCAA/EAA over Hydrolyzed.

What of the use of both? Sort of meeting the cost factor half whey (pun intended). Seems the 'expert' supplement manufacturers I mentioned seems to see some logic in it.

 

[nelix]

You might be on to something here.

Hydrolyzed can be bought at ~$10/lb.

1kilo (2.2lb) BCAA at $35 is equal to ~$16/lb.

I think BCAA yield a greater insulin response (in the presence of sugars, more so obviously), and being isolated should mean they are absorbed faster. There are studies on performance for hydro vs normal whey that are positive in the PWO area, so IF bcaa are the next step, then they should be good. And from what people report about recovery and doms, they are good.

BCAA also don't add extra cals, and hydro whey tastes terrible unless you add even more cals to it.

Not only that, but it is cheaper to buy xtend + bulk items (creatine... beta alanine etc) than to buy many other workout drinks, and taking them by them selves tastes pretty bad, xtend has enough flavour for 70g waxy maze, 10g leucine, 10g bulk xfactor, 5g ba, 5g creatine and probably whatever else you care to throw in there.

Xtend tastes good and is sugar free, bonus points for the aminos.

 

[B5150]

Very good points on the Xtend flavor aspects for additions.

 

[Topfueljunkie]

Topfueljunkie, Thanks for the very detailed reply.

Based on what I have gleened from his BCAA recommendation, he is suggesting .3g/kg/bw split pre and post. For myself that would equate to 25g total or 12.5g pre and 12.5g post.

When you are using this protocol pre and post are you using no carbohydrates?

I understand that he goes on to suggest that you should still consume a post workout meal that could be fast(er) digesting protein and carbs.

How soon after are your post workout BCAA are you consuming your post workout shake (carbs and whey) or meal? Or are you?

Sorry for the late reply, gets kinda hectic during the week with school and work. But to answer your questions, yes, when using Doc Serrano's reccommendations, I am using NO carbs, just the BCAAs and Free Form Aminos both pre (sipping a BCAA and FFA drink starting 45 prior to my workout) and then immediately PWO. I did find, however, that for someone looking to gain mass he advocates using 10-15g of glucose to the pwo mix. I assume he only says to use that relatively little amount so as not to cause a large increase in bloodflow to the stomach to aid in the digestion process, otherwise you might as well use a typical whey shake. I'm currently experimenting with the no carb approach pre and post for two weeks and then I will go two weeks adding in 10-15 grams of glucose in the pwo mix.
As far as how soon after my pwo BCAA and FFAA mix am I taking a whey shake......IMMEDIATELY following the workout I drink my BCAA/FFA drink (no carbs currently) and wait 45 minutes before having a whey protein shake with 40-50 grams carbs mixed in. That's Doc Serrano's recs. Then, 2 hours PWO (1 hour and 15 minutes after the shake) I consume a solid food meal which is also my largest meal of the day. Hope that helps!

 

[Topfueljunkie]

Come on now. No one?

We have IntraBolic pre workout that uses both Hydrolyzed and EAA.

We have Golden Finish post workout that uses both Hydrolyzed and BCAA/EAA.

Both are way too pricey for my taste. But I believe their concept stands to reason and discussion.

Anyway.

Just in case there is any confusion, the product Golden Finish, isn't comparable to the use of straight BCAAs and FFAA. It'll take much longer to enter systemic circulation than the use of free form aminos will, much longer! Not at all bashing the product as it looks like a great product but I wanted to make sure no one thought that you could compare the two. I personally like the use of free form aminos since they are reported to enter circulation in as little as ten minutes after ingestion...........waaaay faster than any protein shake can claim. Again, this is because in the "free form", no digestion is needed; and let's not forget that the liver doesn't get a chance to catabolize these free forms like typical whey can be. Also, when using FFAA, blood stays in the muscles, transporting vital nutrients instead of being diverted away to form digestive enzymes.
As far as Intrabolic goes, I am still doing research to see what the time to systemic circulation is on di- and tri-peptide proteins. Not sure if they are small enough to bypass the digestion process. I am finding some conflicting info on this topic, so I need to look deeper. Also, I am unsure of whether or not the additional ingredients in Intrabolic could cause a digestive response or create competion for absorbtion. Bottom line, if you're worried about creating a competition for absorbtion (as some combinations of aminos show) it's better to leave 'em out. Not bashing Intrabolic either as it looks to be a very solid product.

 

[EasyEJL]

i'm using nutrabolic's anabolic window currently, which is a mix of whey hydrolysate + protein isolate. I was pondering spiking each drink with some bcaas.

 

[pmiller383]

Lot of good info here guys, maybe you guys can give some advice on what I am thinking about doing. I want to make a drink for during my workouts that would consist of
30g Maltodextrin
20g Dextrose
15g BCAA
3g Beta-alanine
3g Citruline Malate
1g Alcar
1g Taurine
1scoop Posedine
1 Pslin dumped in

about 20-30 minutes before that:
3g tricreatine malate
3g AAKG
1-2 tyrosine
3g Glycerol Mono Sterate

I know it sounds like a lot, but i am thinking it would be pretty effective. I am not sure about the beta alanine and the alcar and citruline, but i already have used the other stuff and liked it. Sorry if this is kind of off topic, but i am curious to see if this would be an effective BCAA drink during lifting.

 

[rpen22]

Why the Maltodextrin along with the Dextrose?

 

[pmiller383]

When the two are mixed I have read that they help hydrate cells better than just malto alone. Also I am mixing in bulk BCAA some the extra sweetness from the dextrose will hopefully take away some of the bitterness.

 

[B5150]

My upcoming experiments with these will consist of Xtend (11.5g), 5g leucine, 5g Beta-Alanine, 2.5g mono, 10-20g WMS used in conjuction with a P-Slin (AP/YG) pre and post workout.

The amount of P-Slin (or AP/YG) and WMS will be experimental with a long term goal of improved insulin response.

 

[pmiller383]

5g of Beta Alanine should give you a nice tingle, I like how you are using the 5g of just leucine, I was thinking about doing the same just to make it a little easier on my wallet. With only 20g WMS I think a Pslin may be to much though, make sure you bring a little extra carb drink to the gym with you just in case you start getting hypoglycemic symptoms.

I wonder if anyone on the board has had success with mega dosing BCAA at around 40-50g a day. I have read a few articles on T-nation where this is recommended but I have always took them with a grain of salt because I know biotest has there own BCAA tabs they were introducing at around the time the articles were published.

 

[B5150]

I will certainly be tinkering with the P-Slin, AP and YG doses. My goal is to use low to slightly moderate amounts of carbs and adjusting my P-slin/AP/YG doses to be efficient and effective with the amount of carbs I take rather than the other way around (eating more carbs) if possible.

I will probably be starting my experimentation out with half caps of P-Slin. Half cap 30 mins before my pre w/o shake and the other half cap immedaitely upon completion of last set prior to my post w/o shake of the same.

I will be experimenting pre and post w/o this way with P-Slin, AP and Yellow Gold. I will also making plans to work something with AP and or Yellow Gold for an other low carb meal for my post w/o meal.

 

[VolcomX311]

Good read