IGF-2/NeoVar/Osteo-C/LipoPM stack

  1. glg
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    IGF-2/NeoVar/Osteo-C/LipoPM stack


    Started 4/2/07

    Sorry I didn’t start the thread right away (many excuses….etc...etc.)

    Starting Stats: all are cold measurements
    Weight - 200#
    R. Forearm – 13”
    R. Bi – 15 ½”
    Chest – 42½”
    Stomach - 40½”
    Waist – 37”
    Hips – 39"
    R. Thigh – 23 5/8"
    R. Calf – 17 1/4"

    AN has been kind enough to send the Neovar/IGF-2/Osteo-C stack. I bought 2 more bottles of Lipo-PM from Nutraplanet. I lost 10# and a couple of inches on my trial (see thread) so I want to see what the results will be when doing 2 doses per day and in combo with the stack.

    I am going to run the Lipo-PM at twice a day and do the stack - 4 weeks worth. If the stack is going well or at least I feel it starting to kick in I plan on ordering another 4 weeks worth and run the whole thing for 8 weeks.

    Basic info (you can get most of it on my Lipo-PM thread):
    I will be 59 in August have several health/injury related issues. Put on 20# last year (all fat) and am trying to get back into shape/loose BF etc. (NeoVar/IGF-2) Currently have a shoulder problem (Osteo-C) and will probably wind up having surgery some time in the next month or so.

    I am a semi-retired martial artist/fitness advisor. I am currently a desk jockey sitting in front of a computer all day.

    My workout schedule is a 3 day/week upper/lower 2 week split.
    Week1: Week 2:
    M- Upper M - Lower
    W – Lower W - Upper
    F – Upper F – Lower

    Although lately it seems to be only a M/Th schedule (again multiple excuses….LOL)

    Since I am behind I will break up the last couple of weeks so that this doesn’t turn into a super long initial post.

  2. glg
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    Goals – Reduce BF to around 15% while putting on a couple of pounds of lean mass. I am thinking I would like to get down to 195# and as I said 15% BF(currently I am about 18 – 20%)

    My current workout (I try to start out with 20 min on the treadmill or stationary bike for cardio & warm-up). I do not have a lifting partner so I tend to use machines a lot or go up in weights slowly so I can control them. I try for 3-4 sets/10 -12 reps when I get to 4 sets and a strong 10-12 reps I add weight or if I feel really good that day I’ll bump things.

    My diet is not super clean – just a normal diet with health in mind. My wife is slowly shifting us to the Glycemic Index diet.

    I am on a TRT program and take all the usual supplements: E, D, C, CoQ10, Multi-Vit, Multi-Min, Omega oils, St. Johns, Saw Palmetto, ZMA, Fenugreek, DHEA, BCAA, Post W/O drink, digestion aid, joint formula. I am stimulant sensitive so I do not do a Pre-W/O drink or other weight management formulas. I aim for 1 gal. of water a day.

    Upper body:
    Flat BB Bench Press
    Medium width Pull-ups (counterbalance machine)
    Rear Deltoid Laterals (machine)
    Upright Rows – EZ Curl bar
    Triceps (press down/dip machine)
    Biceps (seated machine)
    Abs Crunch/Hanging Knee Raise (Superset)

    Lower body:
    Leg Extensions (Nautilus machine)
    Prone Leg Curls
    Leg Press (Incline ?)
    Standing Calf Raise (machine)
    Low Back Hyperextensions
    Behind Back BB Wrist Curls
    Abs Crunch/Hanging Knee Raise (Superset)
  3. glg
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    Monday 4/2
    Lousy sleep last night up 4 or 5 times during the night. Hope this stack doesn’t make my sleep even worse than it already is. Work out was OK but nothing fantastic – just very tired.

    Bench – 115# - 3 x 10
    Pull-ups – 150# - 3 x 10 (this is a counter balance machine so the lower the weight used the better)
    Rear Delts – 40# - 1 x 12, 1 x 9 (shoulder acting up)
    Upright Rows – 65# - 3 x 12
    Triceps – 195# - 2 x 12, 1 x 9
    Bicep – 60# - 1 x 12, 1 x 10, 1 x 6
    Abs/Knee ups – 1 x 50/25
    •   
       

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    Tues. 4/3
    Off
    Another really bad night
  5. glg
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    Wed 4/4
    A really bad night and almost threw up after I ate breakfast. I wonder if I need to adjust the time between taking the IGF-2 and eating.

    Got off of work and was totally wiped out so skipped the gym.
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    Thus. 4/5
    Cardio – 20 min
    Leg Ext – 90# - 3 x 12
    Leg Curls – 90# - 3 x 12
    Leg Press – 290# - 3 x 12
    Calf – 180# - 3 x 12
    Hyperext. – 5# - 3 x 12
    Wrist Curls – 65# - 3 x 12
    Abs – skipped ( very queasy stomach)

    Still having bad sleep (and I don’t sleep well as it is). Didn’t wait as long between IGF-2 & food (about 30 min vs. the 45 recommended). Not sure why I had problems at end of workout. Am very tired in afternoon. I know a big piece is sleep related but I may need to add more carbs with my second dose of NeoVar (may be low blood sugars).
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    I hope things start clearing up for you man!!!

    When are your doseing times?!!
  8. glg
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    Fri/Sat/Sun. 4/6 – 4/8

    Off

    Bad sleep. No nausea

    Always use the weekends to catch up on my sleep. Need to get my taxes started (Turbo tax) what fun….LOL.

    Can’t say that I feel anything different during this first week other than even worse sleep than usual. This may or may not be related to the stack as I also have a lot of other things going on (work, health TAXES).
  9. glg
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    Mon. 4/9

    Shoulder is really acting up but I’m still going to the gym (stubborn). Sleep was a little better.

    Cardio – 18 min
    Bench – 115# - 3 x 12
    Pull-ups – 150# - 2 x 12, 1 x 9
    Rear Delts – 40# - 3 x 12 (I’ll pay for this one)
    Upright Rows – 65# - 2 x 12, 1 x 10 (I’ll pay for this one too)
    Triceps – 195# - 3 x 12
    Bicep – 60# - 1 x 12, 1 x 10, 1 x 8
    Abs/Knee ups – 2 x 40/20
  10. glg
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffhunk29 View Post
    I hope things start clearing up for you man!!!

    When are your doseing times?!!
    I take the IGF-2 when I wake up around 6:30 am. Then I take the NeoVar & Osteo-C with breakfast. I take my second Neovar with lunch on off days and per the instructions on workout days. I take my first dose of Lipo late morning a little before lunch and second at bed along with the second IGFdose. I take my second Osteo-C with dinner.
  11. glg
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    Wed 4/11

    Midway thru breakfast threw up everything. I have to say it was very colorful, red/blue/orange/yellow, all the pills/capsules I had taken a few minute earlier. Got cleaned up and mixed up a protein shake to take with me to work.

    Still having major crashes in the afternoon (2 pm on). I really need to adjust my meals or start taking the second half of my stack with my evening meal.

    Cardio – 20 min
    Leg Ext – 100# - 4 x 12
    Leg Curls – 90# - 4 x 12
    Leg Press – 180# x 12, 270# x 12, 360# x 12, 450# x 8
    Calf – 180# - 4 x 12
    Hyperext. – 5# - 4 x 12
    Wrist Curls – 95# - 1 x 12, 1 x 10, 1 x 7
    Abs/Knee ups – 40/20, 20/10

    Decided to push it. Legs have always been better for me (lot’s of leg work in my martial arts). Want to stoke up the metabolism and get some upper body synergy going.

    Still playing with the taxes
  12. glg
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    Fri/Sat/Sun 4/13 – 4/15

    Off

    Shoulder really acting up and still very tired. Although the sleep is marginally improving.

    Finished the taxes!!!!
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    Mon 4/16

    More rested after the weekend and finishing the taxes. Back up to full doses on the stack. Still not doing the full 45 min on the IGF-2 before breakfast (at about 30 min now).

    Again very wiped out in afternoon. Tried to make sure I had enough carbs etc and did in between meal snack of vegetable sticks and a can of tune in the afternoon. Something to keep working on.

    Forced myself to go to the gym and to try to push it some more. Won’t get in 3 workouts again this week. I will be sitting guest at a black belt testing Friday so will do Mon & Thurs.

    I’m beginning to think I should just change to 2 days vs. the 3 I had planned since it seems to be working out that way.

    But overall it was a good work out. The place was super crowded and I couldn’t use either of the cardio machines I do. Just jammed both before my W/O and after which is unusual.

    Cardio – none
    Leg Ext – 80# x 12, 90# x 12, 100# x 12, 110# x 12
    Leg Curls – 70# x 12, 80# x 12, 90# x 12, 100# x 12
    Leg Press – 180# x 12, 270# x 12, 360# x 12, 450# x 12
    Calf – 150# x 12, 165# x 12, 180# x 12, 195# x 12
    Hyperext. – none
    Wrist Curls – 65 x 12, 75 x 12, 85 x 12, 95# x 8
    Abs/Knee ups – none

    All the Ab stations were in use, the knee up in use and the low back stations. Busy day or at least when I needed the station. So I packed it in and went home instead of waiting 10 min for someone to finish.
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    Tues 4/17

    OFF
    Another bad night.

    ______________________________ ______________________________ ________________________

    Wed. 4/18
    Another bad night.

    Yoga class with my wife. Nice break. Good stretching although I have to take it easy on the range of motion on the shoulder and some of the posture with a lot of knee bending I simply can’t do anymore.


    And that catches me up.

    I will be regular from now on. I kept a journal so I at least had all the notes I needed.

    Had an MRI on the shoulder last Sat and my doc is on vacation so won't find anything out for a couple of weeks (he went to Spain & France with his family).

    In the mean time I am going to push it as much as I can 'cause I know I will have some down time if he decides it need work.
  15. glg
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    Thurs 4/19

    Not even going to mention sleep unless it vastly improves.

    Pushed the workout even tho i wasn't 100% as far as energy.

    Cardio – 22 min
    Bench – 95x12, 105x12,115x12,125x8
    Pull-ups – 150 - 4x10
    Rear Delts – 40 - 4 x 10
    Upright Rows – 65 - 4 x 10
    Triceps – 210 - 4 x 10
    Bicep – 65 - 3x10, 1x8
    Abs/Knee ups - 40/20, 40/10

    fair workout
    little side ache towards the end and kept yawning all the time.

    Taking Fri off - senior guest judge at a blackbelt testing
    Sat & Sun off - son's 21st birthday (I feel old....LOL)
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    Quote Originally Posted by glg View Post
    Thurs 4/19

    Not even going to mention sleep unless it vastly improves.

    Pushed the workout even tho i wasn't 100% as far as energy.

    Cardio – 22 min
    Bench – 95x12, 105x12,115x12,125x8
    Pull-ups – 150 - 4x10
    Rear Delts – 40 - 4 x 10
    Upright Rows – 65 - 4 x 10
    Triceps – 210 - 4 x 10
    Bicep – 65 - 3x10, 1x8
    Abs/Knee ups - 40/20, 40/10

    fair workout
    little side ache towards the end and kept yawning all the time.

    Taking Fri off - senior guest judge at a blackbelt testing
    Sat & Sun off - son's 21st birthday (I feel old....LOL)
    Gary-
    Hope you feel better!!!
  17. glg
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    I think I have the nausea under control - I can't wait the full 45 min recommended on the IGF-2. I will slowly start to move the time (I'm currently doing about 25min).

    As I said I do not sleep well (Insomnia, RLS and other factors) so anytime something happens to mess that up even more I have to watch it.

    I know that sometimes my body really reacts to anything new I consume (supplements). I also get a reverse reaction from many meds and supplements. Things that really pep some people up will cause me to creash or I won't feel anything until i try to go to sleep.

    I've been that way for a long, long time. So I will paly a little with the timing and if that doesn't work then I will play with the dosages. Right now I am using the recommended doses for 200#.

    And this is only the end of the second week so I do think it's to early for me to make any major changes or conclusions.
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    Monday 4/23

    No stomach issues.
    Sleep was a little better.
    Afternoon crash was better.

    Had more energy going into the gym and increased weights almost across the board. Felt stronger but didn't have the endurance to go 4 sets on most lifts.

    Cardio – 25 min
    Bench – 125 x 8/8/8/6
    Pull-ups – 140 - 3x10
    Rear Delts – 50 x 10/10/8
    Upright Rows – 75 x 10/10, 80 x 8
    Triceps – 225 - 4 x 10
    Bicep – 70 x 10/10/8
    Abs/Knee ups - 40/20, 40/10, 20/10

    I think things are starting to kick in this week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glg View Post
    Monday 4/23

    No stomach issues.
    Sleep was a little better.
    Afternoon crash was better.

    Had more energy going into the gym and increased weights almost across the board. Felt stronger but didn't have the endurance to go 4 sets on most lifts.

    Cardio – 25 min
    Bench – 125 x 8/8/8/6
    Pull-ups – 140 - 3x10
    Rear Delts – 50 x 10/10/8
    Upright Rows – 75 x 10/10, 80 x 8
    Triceps – 225 - 4 x 10
    Bicep – 70 x 10/10/8
    Abs/Knee ups - 40/20, 40/10, 20/10

    I think things are starting to kick in this week.
    Awesome- glad to see you are feeling better!!
  20. glg
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    Tues 4/24 - OFF
    Wed 4/25 - OFF

    Thurs 4/26
    Cardio – none
    Leg Ext – 110# 4 x 12
    Leg Curls – 120# 3 x 12, 1 x 8
    Leg Press – 240# x 12, 360# x 12, 410# x 12, 470# x 8
    Calf – 195# 4 x 12
    Hyperext. – 10# 3 x 10
    Wrist Curls – 95# 12/12/6
    Abs Crunch/Knee ups – 40/20, 40/10

    Overall a better workout. More strength & more endurance.

    My wife has commented twice in the last couple of weeks that I seem slimmer!!!!

    Haven't taken any measurements lately other than the bathroom scale. Weight is moving between 198 - 200#.

    I think the stack is kicking in but the weight reduction isn't moving. I like to think it's because i'm putting on some lean muscle. Will take some measurements & calipers this weekend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glg View Post
    Tues 4/24 - OFF
    Wed 4/25 - OFF

    Thurs 4/26
    Cardio – none
    Leg Ext – 110# 4 x 12
    Leg Curls – 120# 3 x 12, 1 x 8
    Leg Press – 240# x 12, 360# x 12, 410# x 12, 470# x 8
    Calf – 195# 4 x 12
    Hyperext. – 10# 3 x 10
    Wrist Curls – 95# 12/12/6
    Abs Crunch/Knee ups – 40/20, 40/10

    Overall a better workout. More strength & more endurance.

    My wife has commented twice in the last couple of weeks that I seem slimmer!!!!

    Haven't taken any measurements lately other than the bathroom scale. Weight is moving between 198 - 200#.

    I think the stack is kicking in but the weight reduction isn't moving. I like to think it's because i'm putting on some lean muscle. Will take some measurements & calipers this weekend.
    Excellent!!!
  22. glg
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    Slept in big time on Sat (napped til noon) & did house stuff all day.

    Slept in a little on Sunday and went for a bicycle ride with the wife for a couple of hours (got my cardio for the weekend)

    This was the first time out for the season, very good endurance (for us AARP types) and no sorenes at all today.

    Bathroom scale this AM was sitting at 198#. So I feel confident that the Lipo-PM is still working very well.

    Will be doing upper body tonight and will report those numbers later.

    I think the Osteo-C is definitely helping with my joint/arthritus issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glg View Post
    Slept in big time on Sat (napped til noon) & did house stuff all day.

    Slept in a little on Sunday and went for a bicycle ride with the wife for a couple of hours (got my cardio for the weekend)

    This was the first time out for the season, very good endurance (for us AARP types) and no sorenes at all today.

    Bathroom scale this AM was sitting at 198#. So I feel confident that the Lipo-PM is still working very well.

    Will be doing upper body tonight and will report those numbers later.

    I think the Osteo-C is definitely helping with my joint/arthritus issues.
    Great!! The reduction in pain/discomfort will be gradual- and over the course of the next few weeks- Osteo-C should help quite a bit in alleviating your joint issues!!
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals
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    Ok. Lat nights workout went fairly well. Went up in some weight and reps. Didn't feel particularly aggressive walking into the gym but wanted to push it as little anyway.

    Cardio – 20 min
    Bench – 125 x 10/10/10/5
    Pull-ups – 140 - 4x10
    Rear Delts – 50 3 x 10
    Upright Rows – 75 4 x 10
    Triceps – 240 - 10/10/8
    Bicep – 70 3 x 10
    Abs/Knee ups - 40, 30 - no Kneeups

    Was suprised at how strong I felt on some lifts and that i had the endurance to go 4 sets on some.

    Shoulder is a lilltle achey today but the rest of the body isn't as stiff/painful as naormal (for me).

    Slept a lot better last night (again for me) but was very groggy this morning and had the vivid dreams that some other talk about.

    The scale this am was at 198# again so I have lost 22#s over the last 3-4 months. I am very excited!! Now I hope to lose at least another 5# and add 2 - 5 # of lean mass.

    Still trying to melt down the pot belly.

    But I think the stack is working very well now. Well enough that I bought a second bottle of everything from Nutra this weekend so I can extend the cycle to 8 weeks.
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    Wed 5/2

    Cardio – 20 min
    Leg Ext – 120# 4 x 12
    Leg Curls – 120# 4 x 12
    Leg Press – 270# x 12, 360# x 12, 450# x 12, 500# x 8
    Calf – 210# 3 x 12
    Hyperext. – 10# 4 x 10
    Wrist Curls – 95# 10/8
    Abs Crunch/Knee ups – 30/20, 30/15

    Good workout.

    Took a little longer break between sets (1 min - 1 1/2 min)

    Felt strong all the way thru.

    May have to add another set to the Leg press as I need a good warm up (bad knees & low back) and I'm getting up there in weight (for me).

    Scale still sitting at 198#.

    Had to punch a temporary hole in my belt. My pants are a 36" waist and that's a little loose now but not enough to get into my 34" comfortably yet. The last hole in the belt is to loose and I'm not ready to get a new belt yet.

    My jeans are rapidly getting to the point of frayed and need to be replaced. I want to get down to a 34" waist before I buy more.

    New goals that I hadn't thought about before!!!
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    Well I finally managed to do a third w/o in a week after months. I can't say that it went as well as I had hoped. Fridays are a struggle after a week of accumulated stres at work and poor sleep.

    Cardio – 10 min on the reclining bike
    Bench – 125# x 12/12/8
    Pull-ups – 140# - 3 x 12
    Rear Delts – 50# 4 x 12 (tried a new position that I saw a female lifter using and it made a world of difference on my shoulder joints - much less pain and a greater feeling of leverage.
    Upright Rows – 80# 3 x 10
    Triceps – 240# - 12/12/10
    Bicep – 70# 12/10/10

    On the rear delt machine I did a standing position with my chest braced on the pad instead of sitting and having the whole torso braced on the pad. The leg are in a bent legged stance (like a forward stance with the knees bent for those of you in the martial arts). Took a lot of pressue off of my neck & shoulder joints, I felt I had much greater leverage with no dead spots thru the lift.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glg View Post
    Wed 5/2

    Cardio – 20 min
    Leg Ext – 120# 4 x 12
    Leg Curls – 120# 4 x 12
    Leg Press – 270# x 12, 360# x 12, 450# x 12, 500# x 8
    Calf – 210# 3 x 12
    Hyperext. – 10# 4 x 10
    Wrist Curls – 95# 10/8
    Abs Crunch/Knee ups – 30/20, 30/15

    Good workout.

    Took a little longer break between sets (1 min - 1 1/2 min)

    Felt strong all the way thru.

    May have to add another set to the Leg press as I need a good warm up (bad knees & low back) and I'm getting up there in weight (for me).

    Scale still sitting at 198#.

    Had to punch a temporary hole in my belt. My pants are a 36" waist and that's a little loose now but not enough to get into my 34" comfortably yet. The last hole in the belt is to loose and I'm not ready to get a new belt yet.

    My jeans are rapidly getting to the point of frayed and need to be replaced. I want to get down to a 34" waist before I buy more.

    New goals that I hadn't thought about before!!!
    Looks like you are definitely headed in the right direction!!!
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals
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    Well for various reasons took a week off but it doesn't look like anyone missed me (deep sigh of longing....)

    Monday 5/14
    Cardio – 22 min on treadmill

    Gym was very crowded so I wound up doing a lot of the sets out of the usual order and taking longer breaks waiting for people to move on.

    Bench – 95 x 10/ 115 x 10/ 125 x 10/ 135 x 10
    Pull-ups – 130# - 3 x 10
    Rear Delts – 60# 3 x 10 (new position)
    Upright Rows – 80# 3 x 10
    Triceps – 240# - 4 x 8 (Bi & Tri as a Superset)
    Bicep – 70# 4 x 8
    Ab Crunch 50
    Knee ups 25

    Overall not a bad workout just took a little longer than I like and the additional rest didn't really help the lifts that much.

    My body weight is holding steady at 198#. I was worried that the week off would move it back up. now i'm hoping that the time off will be a little shake up that will start things moving down again or at least leaning out some more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glg View Post
    Well for various reasons took a week off but it doesn't look like anyone missed me (deep sigh of longing....)

    Monday 5/14
    Cardio – 22 min on treadmill

    Gym was very crowded so I wound up doing a lot of the sets out of the usual order and taking longer breaks waiting for people to move on.

    Bench – 95 x 10/ 115 x 10/ 125 x 10/ 135 x 10
    Pull-ups – 130# - 3 x 10
    Rear Delts – 60# 3 x 10 (new position)
    Upright Rows – 80# 3 x 10
    Triceps – 240# - 4 x 8 (Bi & Tri as a Superset)
    Bicep – 70# 4 x 8
    Ab Crunch 50
    Knee ups 25

    Overall not a bad workout just took a little longer than I like and the additional rest didn't really help the lifts that much.

    My body weight is holding steady at 198#. I was worried that the week off would move it back up. now i'm hoping that the time off will be a little shake up that will start things moving down again or at least leaning out some more.
    Don't worry, we missed you!!! Sometimes you gotta have that time off- I just can't bring myself to do it though..
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals
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    Well my cycle came to an abrupt halt. My surgeon came back from vacation, reviewed my MRI and friday had me on the table. It's interesting trying to do everything left handed. They did a block on the nerves so for the first 20 or so hour the right arm was TOTALLY dead. no feeling, no movement....the scariest/strangest thing i've experienced. i even had the ghost sensations that amputees have. felt like it was moving but wasn't, had sensations and when i would reach over with my left hand the arm wasn't where it felt like it was....

    I had a good workout monday before going in to see the Dr. Had a gut spot me for 9 reps at 155 on the bench..that was 20# more than i have done and it was at the 4th set...pretty good for a soon to be 59 yr old.

    not the way i wanted to wrap up this thread and I'm sorry i didn't finish it properly. now I need to focus on rehab for a few weeks and keep my lower body workouts going. I'm going to be all legs...LOL

    thanks to all who followed the thread.

    Definitely a great product stack. i could feel it kicking in in the leg press and in the bench press. since i have almost a full bottle of each i plan on running a 4 week after i get my shoulder back up to speed!!!!

    May have to buy another Osteo-C before trhat since I plan on it being a big part of my recovery and the Lipo-PM to keep my weight down.
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    good log and great products. I have tried all of them, the only one that I had trouble with was Lipo PM, stomach got all crazy. The others were awesome
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    Quote Originally Posted by glg View Post
    Well my cycle came to an abrupt halt. My surgeon came back from vacation, reviewed my MRI and friday had me on the table. It's interesting trying to do everything left handed. They did a block on the nerves so for the first 20 or so hour the right arm was TOTALLY dead. no feeling, no movement....the scariest/strangest thing i've experienced. i even had the ghost sensations that amputees have. felt like it was moving but wasn't, had sensations and when i would reach over with my left hand the arm wasn't where it felt like it was....

    I had a good workout monday before going in to see the Dr. Had a gut spot me for 9 reps at 155 on the bench..that was 20# more than i have done and it was at the 4th set...pretty good for a soon to be 59 yr old.

    not the way i wanted to wrap up this thread and I'm sorry i didn't finish it properly. now I need to focus on rehab for a few weeks and keep my lower body workouts going. I'm going to be all legs...LOL

    thanks to all who followed the thread.

    Definitely a great product stack. i could feel it kicking in in the leg press and in the bench press. since i have almost a full bottle of each i plan on running a 4 week after i get my shoulder back up to speed!!!!

    May have to buy another Osteo-C before trhat since I plan on it being a big part of my recovery and the Lipo-PM to keep my weight down.
    Sorry to hear bud- keep us posted on the recovery!!!
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals
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