Uncut- A New Encapsulated Pre-Workout From Applied Nutriceuticals

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    You have to try it once!
    Ehh......okay. I'll try it.

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    The only thing i could focus on with RPM uncapped was not sharting on my self during a workout. Who thinks Uncut will have iicarin and mucuna as it's final 2 ingredients? I think it may need some in conjunction with drive. Dont get me wrong Drive still works wonders but the 7% cordyceptic acid and 20% iicarin formula is a stepchild compared to the 40% cordy and 50% iicarin formula i remember.
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    When the hell did that happen? I still see 40% cordyceptic acid but the 20% icariin is concerning cosidering there is pro estrogen metabolites in epimedium as well as some anti-adrogenic. A 40-50% is where its at. Pretty disappointed I hadn't realized the new extract is so inferior to the old.

    Still excited for Uncut but I'll lay off of Drive in the future until further notice.
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    I have a bottle of 240 ct Drive here that is 7% cordy...i see at app nut they have they still have 40% cordy i guess it's just an experimental formula floating around that i was unfortunate enough to get but my last 3 bottles of Drive including a sample were 7%
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    That sucks man I have used it in the past and loved it and was contemplating pulling the trigger on it again but I'm gonna pass and just wait for uncut
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhrr View Post
    That sucks man I have used it in the past and loved it and was contemplating pulling the trigger on it again but I'm gonna pass and just wait for uncut
    I have high hopes for uncut. I like the research on amentoflavone. I think I posted Neuron's blog post on amentoflavone in the other thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrganicShadow View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    if it slows decline into dementia you had better hurry up with this, i am on a runaway train, lol.
    bigt signed off one of his PMs to me as Tom, another one as Jerry and another one as Timothy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    bigt signed off one of his PMs to me as Tom, another one as Terry and another one as Timothy.
    In before he begins to call Enhanced, Enzyte.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    bigt signed off one of his PMs to me as Tom, another one as Terry and another one as Timothy.
    at least they all start with t....if i sign off as jerry or jim i am really in trouble, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    at least they all start with t....if i sign off as jerry or jim i am really in trouble, lol.
    I said 'Jerry'. Uh oh, it really is happening!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I said 'Jerry'. Uh oh, it really is happening!
    lolol...i better get 2 bottles of uncut so i can double dose it...
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    As long as you aren't calling your wife strange names your good. Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhrr View Post
    When the hell did that happen? I still see 40% cordyceptic acid but the 20% icariin is concerning cosidering there is pro estrogen metabolites in epimedium as well as some anti-adrogenic. A 40-50% is where its at. Pretty disappointed I hadn't realized the new extract is so inferior to the old.

    Still excited for Uncut but I'll lay off of Drive in the future until further notice.
    The 40% cordycepic acid was an experiment- it gave us all kinds of issues in mfg., so we switched it back to the 7% cordycepic...as for the icariin, the amount of the 20% icariin was doubled to make up for the reduction in the % used; keep in mind we have full analytical testing in our OWN facility (ID, assay, micro, etc.), plus our own manufacturing. There has been a few things "suggested" by reps from other companies having to do with icariin, please keep in mind they have a vested interest in de-bunking our products and ingredients, and the information they desseminate isn't always the full story. We test each batch of icariin that comes into our facility, and we are heavily involved with our raw material supplier in finding the BEST material on the market. Just because it is 20% icariin does not mean that it is 80% estrogenic and anti-androgenic material. This is false; the 60% in this case is inert material (mannitol and cellulose), with the other 20% being unextracted (powder) plant material. The unextracted material is not standardized or extracted for anything; it is going to have little or no biological activity. We do have control over this, and a lot more so than the other companies out there who use a contract manufacturer (95% of them do). We work closely with our ingredient suppliers on our materials, and we test each batch in-house when it comes into our facility (same goes for ALL of our raw materials). The net icariin (in mg) is exactly the same as the original version of Drive- and this has never changed......
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    You have to try it once!
    Yup! Its a rite of passage

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post

    Yup! Its a rote of passage

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
    Well, once I receive those samples, I'll try it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    The 40% cordycepic acid was an experiment- it gave us all kinds of issues in mfg., so we switched it back to the 7% cordycepic...as for the icariin, the amount of the 20% icariin was doubled to make up for the reduction in the % used; keep in mind we have full analytical testing in our OWN facility (ID, assay, micro, etc.), plus our own manufacturing. There has been a few things "suggested" by reps from other companies having to do with icariin, please keep in mind they have a vested interest in de-bunking our products and ingredients, and the information they desseminate isn't always the full story. We test each batch of icariin that comes into our facility, and we are heavily involved with our raw material supplier in finding the BEST material on the market. Just because it is 20% icariin does not mean that it is 80% estrogenic and anti-androgenic material. This is false; the 60% in this case is inert material (mannitol and cellulose), with the other 20% being unextracted (powder) plant material. The unextracted material is not standardized or extracted for anything; it is going to have little or no biological activity. We do have control over this, and a lot more so than the other companies out there who use a contract manufacturer (95% of them do). We work closely with our ingredient suppliers on our materials, and we test each batch in-house when it comes into our facility (same goes for ALL of our raw materials). The net icariin (in mg) is exactly the same as the original version of Drive- and this has never changed......
    i can honestly say that i have never had estrogen issues with drive or the rpm/drive combo...and i dose high!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    The 40% cordycepic acid was an experiment- it gave us all kinds of issues in mfg., so we switched it back to the 7% cordycepic...as for the icariin, the amount of the 20% icariin was doubled to make up for the reduction in the % used; keep in mind we have full analytical testing in our OWN facility (ID, assay, micro, etc.), plus our own manufacturing. There has been a few things "suggested" by reps from other companies having to do with icariin, please keep in mind they have a vested interest in de-bunking our products and ingredients, and the information they desseminate isn't always the full story. We test each batch of icariin that comes into our facility, and we are heavily involved with our raw material supplier in finding the BEST material on the market. Just because it is 20% icariin does not mean that it is 80% estrogenic and anti-androgenic material. This is false; the 60% in this case is inert material (mannitol and cellulose), with the other 20% being unextracted (powder) plant material. The unextracted material is not standardized or extracted for anything; it is going to have little or no biological activity. We do have control over this, and a lot more so than the other companies out there who use a contract manufacturer (95% of them do). We work closely with our ingredient suppliers on our materials, and we test each batch in-house when it comes into our facility (same goes for ALL of our raw materials). The net icariin (in mg) is exactly the same as the original version of Drive- and this has never changed......
    Thanks for this post!
    EvoMuse
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    i can honestly say that i have never had estrogen issues with drive or the rpm/drive combo...and i dose high!!!
    Same here
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZMIDLYF View Post
    Same here
    this is why i have little faith in studies....it cost a lot of money to do a study, and there always seems to be someone with ulterior motives behind the money.....and like the saying goes...'you get what you pay for".
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    this is why i have little faith in studies....it cost a lot of money to do a study, and there always seems to be someone with ulterior motives behind the money.....and like the saying goes...'you get what you pay for".
    Its not that the studies are bad, or aren't useful, but you have to look at the context- just because something increases or decrease estro in-vitro doesn't always mean it is going to carry over, and you also have to look at methods, cell lines, and the discussion/context of the study to really even be able to reach any type of conclusion. I see a lot of Pubmed ninjas on this board (and others) throwing around abstracts, which isn't bad, per se, but doesn't always tell the full story. Full text > abstract and the conclusions derived thereof- I admit I have been guilty of throwing out abstracts in the past in an effort to save time, etc., but it isn't any substitute for information provided by the full text.........

    To your point bigt, always look for government or state-sponsored work; these tend to be much more conclusive and have less potential for bias; however, not all scientific work undertaken by drug companies is necessarily bad, or containing ulterior motives- in fact, I have seen some really good studies in this realm, especially when it comes to pharmacokinetic studies and QSAR (supp cos. won't ever do these)
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
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    Quote Originally Posted by domore View Post
    Thanks for this post!
    No worries- I hate seeing information that isn't necessarily true being spread as the gospel......
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    No worries- I hate seeing information that isn't necessarily true being spread as the gospel......
    I'm on this board because this really interests me, and has become somewhat of a hobby. My field is completely unrelated to medicine/nutrition/etc., but it is refreshing when I find information that actually leads me in the right direction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    Its not that the studies are bad, or aren't useful, but you have to look at the context- just because something increases or decrease estro in-vitro doesn't always mean it is going to carry over, and you also have to look at methods, cell lines, and the discussion/context of the study to really even be able to reach any type of conclusion. I see a lot of Pubmed ninjas on this board (and others) throwing around abstracts, which isn't bad, per se, but doesn't always tell the full story. Full text > abstract and the conclusions derived thereof- I admit I have been guilty of throwing out abstracts in the past in an effort to save time, etc., but it isn't any substitute for information provided by the full text.........

    To your point bigt, always look for government or state-sponsored work; these tend to be much more conclusive and have less potential for bias; however, not all scientific work undertaken by drug companies is necessarily bad, or containing ulterior motives- in fact, I have seen some really good studies in this realm, especially when it comes to pharmacokinetic studies and QSAR (supp cos. won't ever do these)
    thank you. i have a suspicious mind, i see conspiracies behind every corner, lol....but the truth is out there!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    The 40% cordycepic acid was an experiment- it gave us all kinds of issues in mfg., so we switched it back to the 7% cordycepic...as for the icariin, the amount of the 20% icariin was doubled to make up for the reduction in the % used; keep in mind we have full analytical testing in our OWN facility (ID, assay, micro, etc.), plus our own manufacturing. There has been a few things "suggested" by reps from other companies having to do with icariin, please keep in mind they have a vested interest in de-bunking our products and ingredients, and the information they desseminate isn't always the full story. We test each batch of icariin that comes into our facility, and we are heavily involved with our raw material supplier in finding the BEST material on the market. Just because it is 20% icariin does not mean that it is 80% estrogenic and anti-androgenic material. This is false; the 60% in this case is inert material (mannitol and cellulose), with the other 20% being unextracted (powder) plant material. The unextracted material is not standardized or extracted for anything; it is going to have little or no biological activity. We do have control over this, and a lot more so than the other companies out there who use a contract manufacturer (95% of them do). We work closely with our ingredient suppliers on our materials, and we test each batch in-house when it comes into our facility (same goes for ALL of our raw materials). The net icariin (in mg) is exactly the same as the original version of Drive- and this has never changed......
    I appreciate this post as I am a very big fan of Drive and was admittedly a little concerned when another member brought up the change so thank you for clearing this up. I'm guilty of jumping the gun with some of the recent post brought up in regards to icariin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhrr View Post
    I appreciate this post as I am a very big fan of Drive and was admittedly a little concerned when another member brought up the change so thank you for clearing this up. I'm guilty of jumping the gun with some of the recent post brought up in regards to icariin.
    No worries- once again, vested interest is coming into play; we test, and we work very closely with our raw material supplier to make sure that we understand where the material is coming from, and what it contains, even in the non-extracted portions. Believe it or not, you can actually have a good amount of control over this, as long as you have a good relationship with them. We can pick and choose the "other" parts of extracted materials based on what we need based on quality and ease of manufacturing. This is cGMP-compliant, as long as you have a standard and spec for it; our purchasing makes decisions based on these factors, before cost. When cost is the only driver of ingredient choice, it will end up costing you time, effort, and energy on the manufacturing and quality end......

    What I will say is that it is kind of hard to have a relationship with your supplier when you use a contract manufacturer, because a lot of these companies have no idea where the raw ingredients are coming from. They also are not testing each ingredient for quality- they are just relying on someone else's word, which can be really dangerous, especially if you have a problem with your product......
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post

    thank you. i have a suspicious mind, i see conspiracies behind every corner, lol....but the truth is out there!!!!
    There's a method and way to go about reading into studies. It's not just flipping through discussion and abstracts to find what they did and what they found. Often times, especially university studies, these are sponsored by some company or group which would benefit from the potential outcomes. As Dirk said, look for government studies as they tend to be less biased. Even then I've seen studies where methods were bad, materials used are poor quality, or even the wrong statistics used. All said and done, what happens in vitro isn't always in vivo. Just as what happens in rat studies aren't always translated to humans. And not all studies are geared to make grant money, there are people out there who do want to shake an industry for the sake of progress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrganicShadow View Post
    There's a method and way to go about reading into studies. It's not just flipping through discussion and abstracts to find what they did and what they found. Often times, especially university studies, these are sponsored by some company or group which would benefit from the potential outcomes. As Dirk said, look for government studies as they tend to be less biased. Even then I've seen studies where methods were bad, materials used are poor quality, or even the wrong statistics used. All said and done, what happens in vitro isn't always in vivo. Just as what happens in rat studies aren't always translated to humans. And not all studies are geared to make grant money, there are people out there who do want to shake an industry for the sake of progress.

    -OS-Team AppNut
    for me i let smart guys like dirk figure it all out...then i try the product and either like it or not, i go with trusted companies [of which i consider appnut to be] and more often than not it pans out.

    too often i have heard the brainiacs on forums chrush a product i have tried and liked...the so called supportive science means nothing to me if i either like or dislike a product. the only thing i pay attention to---- is when someone brings up a point about a product being toxic or harmful-then they have my attention.

    f' a bunch of studies, i want hands on results!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    for me i let smart guys like dirk figure it all out...then i try the product and either like it or not, i go with trusted companies [of which i consider appnut to be] and more often than not it pans out.

    too often i have heard the brainiacs on forums chrush a product i have tried and liked...the so called supportive science means nothing to me if i either like or dislike a product. the only thing i pay attention to---- is when someone brings up a point about a product being toxic or harmful-then they have my attention.

    f' a bunch of studies, i want hands on results!!!!!
    Well put. Dirk's knowledge as a product formulator is amazing, but he isn't one of those guys that looks at the studies and says "If we put x ingedient in with y ingredient, then we will get z result". Of course he has an idea of which formulations will work best, but he does a lot of real world testing to see what users actually feel too. This is really important and really sets the AppNut process apart from what a lot of companies do.

    I can tell you with Uncut, that he has sent us no less than 6 different versions to test. At no point did he tell us what the ingredients were or what we should expect. This kept the placebo effect out of the picture and we each gave feedback on each version. To take it a step further, as the formula became more and more refined, Dirk asked us to only share our experiences with him and not amongst each other. This further reduced any placebo effects by eliminating someone feeling something just because other people said they felt it.

    This kind of process is definitely not the easy route. Dirk could have combined these ingredients in the amounts he desired and brought Uncut to market. Instead, he gathered feedback along the way and continuously tweaked the formula to achieve optimal results. I wish everything I bought was as well thought out and tested. I know I've tried bars or protein powder and wondered to myself whether the company even had anybody taste it.

    Obviously each of you should try Uncut for yourselves and draw your own conclusion. I just thought you might be interested in how real-world results already played into the final formula.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewey99 View Post
    Well put. Dirk's knowledge as a product formulator is amazing, but he isn't one of those guys that looks at the studies and says "If we put x ingedient in with y ingredient, then we will get z result". Of course he has an idea of which formulations will work best, but he does a lot of real world testing to see what users actually feel too. This is really important and really sets the AppNut process apart from what a lot of companies do.

    I can tell you with Uncut, that he has sent us no less than 6 different versions to test. At no point did he tell us what the ingredients were or what we should expect. This kept the placebo effect out of the picture and we each gave feedback on each version. To take it a step further, as the formula became more and more refined, Dirk asked us to only share our experiences with him and not amongst each other. This further reduced any placebo effects by eliminating someone feeling something just because other people said they felt it.

    This kind of process is definitely not the easy route. Dirk could have combined these ingredients in the amounts he desired and brought Uncut to market. Instead, he gathered feedback along the way and continuously tweaked the formula to achieve optimal results. I wish everything I bought was as well thought out and tested. I know I've tried bars or protein powder and wondered to myself whether the company even had anybody taste it.

    Obviously each of you should try Uncut for yourselves and draw your own conclusion. I just thought you might be interested in how real-world results already played into the final formula.
    so dirk has floated 6 trial balloon's at you guys to try?


    that is pretty awesome...i hope dirk's borderline ocd pays off with a superior product!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    so dirk has floated 6 trial balloon's at you guys to try?


    that is pretty awesome...i hope dirk's borderline ocd pays off with a superior product!!!
    There's a chance. And all different colors, lol.

    The forums help get a general idea on what to expect from a product but, as you said, its never all one way or another. I've used products people raved about and got nothing and vise versa. Same goes for prop blends: obviously no ones a fan of mystery doses but if you try it and it works then awesome stick with it.

    What drives me up the wall is bogus rationalization of a compounds use where shone highly effective in some random animal test then claim that it might work in humans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrganicShadow View Post
    There's a chance. And all different colors, lol.

    The forums help get a general idea on what to expect from a product but, as you said, its never all one way or another. I've used products people raved about and got nothing and vise versa. Same goes for prop blends: obviously no ones a fan of mystery doses but if you try it and it works then awesome stick with it.

    What drives me up the wall is bogus rationalization of a compounds use where shone highly effective in some random animal test then claim that it might work in humans.

    -OS-Team AppNut
    lol....i am 54 and tried so many supps it's even hard for me to believe i have tried so many...what gets me is when i say i got great results from a product, and the whiz kids try and say it's placebo because the science behind the product isn't there..or vice versa.


    it's like they say about pornography, i know it when i see it, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post

    lol....i am 54 and tried so many supps it's even hard for me to believe i have tried so many...what gets me is when i say i got great results from a product, and the whiz kids try and say it's placebo because the science behind the product isn't there..or vice versa.

    it's like they say about pornography, i know it when i see it, lol.
    Couple products I've used with tremendous success repeatedly that the higher ups here call "garbage" and "useless" idk.. Just shows everyone is different for sure.
    "no failure is final, nor is any success"
    Follow my 2014 training and supps!
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/240285-chedapaloozas-2014-training.html
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    I will definitely be trying it out.
    NSCA - CSCS
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolcomX311 View Post
    I will definitely be trying it out.
    Same I'm really excited for this. Any more ingredients to reveal?
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    Im guessing Co Q-10
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    I cant wait for the official write up.

    -OS-Team AppNut
    By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.
    Franz Kafka
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrganicShadow View Post
    I cant wait for the official write up.

    -OS-Team AppNut
    I can't wait for you to send me yours
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    1-2 weeks to go according to judojosh.
  40. Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by aluchez View Post
    1-2 weeks to go according to judojosh.
    As of last week.
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