Anyone get slightly puffy nipples on The One?
- 04-20-2009, 07:44 PM
Anyone get slightly puffy nipples on The One?
Ive never used a PH before and I am currently on my 3rd day of the one. I have some slightly puffy nipples. It is not painful, not tender, no fibrous tissue. I just want to make sure it is not gyno, I have been told this is common due to hormonal changes in the body... Does this go away by itself or what?
- 04-21-2009, 12:34 AM
Hello. Well first off buddy I hope that what your experiencing is not what you think it is. To be honest, according to the others that have logged there experiences with The ONE I have not read any of them experiencing your issues. Its my understanding though that when you get gyno that they do get puffy but painful to the touch? Maybe someone here that has had it can share there experience so that you can see if its the same? Goodluck
- 04-21-2009, 04:18 AM
04-21-2009, 10:00 PM
I gave you advice over PM's that this is somewhat normal amongst hormonal use for some people. Hopefully you remember as well that Nolva is not novedex xt by Gaspari, but is a true SERM. Good luck and I am sorry you decided to stop your cycle.
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04-22-2009, 03:35 AM
First off...You are not ready to be running PH's. It sounds like you jumped the gun. Secondly, you do not have gyno. If you are really that paranoid that you have it then go to a doctor to find out for sure. You can get puffy nipples just from drinking too much water, or taking in excess calories. In essence, your puffy nipples are most likely caused by water retention.
For future reference...make sure you do all the necessary research before deciding to run a hormonal product. You still sound a bit inexperienced to be running a PH.
"Never trust a b*tch because b*tches be crazy, now get out there and go crush some P***Y!" - Jerry Stiller.
04-22-2009, 08:48 PM
stop rubbing them and playing with them
and yes im serious so many peopel get paranoid and start rubbing thier nips causing self induced issues lol
toes-on-the-nose.blogspot.com Deployed blogging
04-23-2009, 09:59 AM
However Im ordering my nolva now. Just so i have it handy. I planned on ordering it a week before PCT but I want to have it now for peace of mind.
Im trying to recomp on TO and I certainly dont want those fatty pecs to get worse lol!
I guess the fear, is that having elevated estrogen levels because of the prescence of the hormone may aggravate tissue I may have developed over the years I didnt train and was sedentary.
Think its over cautionary to add some nolva to the cycle or pct?
04-23-2009, 02:17 PM
IMO no such thing as a word overcautionary as each human body works diff and what is for me isnt for you etc.
toes-on-the-nose.blogspot.com Deployed blogging
04-23-2009, 05:57 PM
Thanks Outside Backer, I spoke with Easy briefly on this too. Im keeping a close eye on it. Does it seem to be any worse but there is a bit of tenderness or soreness.
Can I call a rep over the weekend? Id like to discuss dosing in the event I'd want to add that in. I'll have the SERM on hand by saturday.
04-23-2009, 06:49 PM
06-29-2009, 08:22 PM
I have puffy nipples myself after a week and a half of The One and one of them (right) is uncomfortable to touch with a lump under it so I'm starting 10mg of Nolva today just in case it becomes gyno. Only running the PH for 3 weeks total anyway at 3 caps per day (shorter cycle than normal given that theres 110 caps in bottle) and really wasn't expecting this so soon. Going to run the Nolva at 10mg for the next 2-3 weeks and start on the 2nd Gear when you would normally - i.e. as soon as I'm done with The One (10 days time).
I'm using the nolva as a precautionary measure but if anyone can tell me if there's something better I can do to prevent this from becoming gyno and to maximise gains (under the circumstances) please feel free to tell me and I will gladly take all advice on board.
06-29-2009, 09:03 PM
However, know that it is physiologically IMpossible for The ONE to give you gyno, as it is a non-aromatizable 5a-reduced compound; and a non-aromatizable 5a-reduced compound cannot give you gyno because that compound creates the opposite hormonal environment for gyno to form - i.e. no conversion of androgens to estrogen, greater binding affinity to the androgen receptors, greater androgenic potency, etc.; and once a compound has become 5a-reduced this is an irreversible process.
06-29-2009, 09:25 PM
That's great to hear that it can't give you gyno but I can't understand why I'm getting the early symptoms of it now. It's weird one nipple is way bigger than the other and I can feel the discomfort without even touching it.
50-60mg of nolva sounds like a lot considering how harsh it can be on the liver and are you suggesting I use this at the same time as The One or to drop it from now on in?
I'm less worried about the gyno now that you have said this but there is nothing else I can think of that could cause this. I have used other PHs before and not experienced this side effect. It was only natural of me to assume that The One was causing it. Whilst I now know that The One cannot be responsible I have to accept I have got it somehow and still need to deal with it.
06-29-2009, 09:32 PM
I wouldnt say it is impossible to get gyno while on the one. I will say though that I am gyno sensitive and I didnt have the slightest irritation while on my One cycle. But, since the One lowers SHBG levels, and this can cause gyno via free'd up estrogen, it is a possibility (albeit a very slight one).
I am also very skeptical when people say they have gyno symptoms on The One. As it is (IMHO) has a smaller gyno risk than any PH/DS on the market.
06-29-2009, 09:44 PM
Keep running The ONE while using the Nolva.
06-30-2009, 07:23 AM
Thanks for the info. The last cycle I did was 3 months ago and I did Havoc but it was a pulse 3 days a week with AI on off days followed by 4 weeks of Mass FX and Hyperdrol X2 so that wouldn't be as severe as a full blown Havoc cycle. I have used Havoc in the past though but it was 2 years ago and did 5 weeks using it everyday but had no gyno issues. I guess it must be the rebound then if it can't be The One or maybe a little bit of both has caused this. What I'm experiencing is probably not enough to worry experienced users; I'm just trying to nip it in the bud early on. The Nolvadex should sort this out hopefully.
Just to clarify then: next 10 days I will have 3 caps of The One with my lunch and start nolvadex at a high dose and taper down to 10 mg by the end of the 10 days. From what I read, there is no need to use the nolva after this period and I should go on to the "2nd Gear" PCT product that came with it. Would it be a bad idea to continue the nolva for an extra week at a low dose stacked with the 2nd gear? Thanks for the tips and I will let you know if it works
06-30-2009, 08:54 AM
3 months ago, could very well be a rebound issue then. Guejsn is right on point there. Did you use any type of AI? Maybe in "disguise", a lot of formulations out there that have some sort of AI in them, 6bromo, atd, 6oxo, formestane..
Check attached graph, rebound spiking after 10 weeks, its after letrozole but mechanism may be the same, surpressed estro rebounding, low T+DHT vs estro levels, too low SHBG (binds estro too, not just test) can cause gyno. Doesnt The One lower SHBG btw? Interesting point there..
And watch yourself very closely a few months post cycle if you're having issues now.
Anecdotally The one diminshed my gyno on cycle but it rebounded with a vengeance way post pct..
Keep that nolva stocked..
06-30-2009, 03:06 PM
06-30-2009, 04:14 PM
Thanks for the replies. I was using ALRI restore on my off-days while on Havoc (The Havoc was for 5and I started introducing the AI on 3rd week of this. As I said I then went on to Maxx FX and Hyperdrol X2 for 5 weeks. Thats 8 weeks total of 6-bromo use albeit not everyday for first 3 weeks. I had this in mind as I didn't want to use 6-bromo for more than 8 weeks. I then had a month with no supps before starting The One. I know this may or may not have been a little soon but I only intended to run 20 days instead of 30 anyway.
Quick question while I'm posting - should I be using milk thistle to help with the added strain on my liver the nolva will now be causing? I won't be taking it close to The One to avoid negating its effects but perhaps before bed would be wise? Thanks again.
06-30-2009, 06:43 PM
06-30-2009, 07:21 PM
Thanks I will take it late in the day so its far apart from The One.
Latest report is that the other nipple now has a smaller lump under it and my erections aren't full strength. Has the high dose of nolvadex in any way caused the slight erectile dysfunction? Yesterday it seemed fine. Sorry for hijacking the thread by the way I just seem to be getting good help from the people here on it
By the way, if I keep checking my nipples say twice a day am I going to make things a lot worse as I'm stimulating the growth? I try my best to just touch lightly and not that often.
Also my friend who has run the same supplements as me for the past 6 months has got the same thing happening with his nipples after asking him today.
07-01-2009, 09:01 AM
Woke up this morning and the lump seems to be getting bigger. How long does it normally take before the growth is reversed and you start to see signs of it diminishing? Should I hope to see this in the next few days?
07-01-2009, 09:23 AM
Are you sure your nolva is legit? What kind do you have? Is it Tamoxifen Citrate? It should act quite fast, like in 3 days.
07-01-2009, 11:42 AM
Yeah its tamoxifen citrate. Not sure if I'm allowed to say the actual name of it or where I got it but both are legitimate names. Is it ok to keep checking each day or should I just not touch it at all? I will see how it feels tomorrow before I get worried.
07-01-2009, 12:23 PM
07-01-2009, 05:37 PM
Touching triggers prolactin release. Prolactin induces mammary gland growth in presence of estrogen. Sucks doesnt it..
07-01-2009, 07:00 PM
Definitely. I will leave them alone and check in a few days. Thanks I will go PM
07-02-2009, 02:59 AM
07-03-2009, 08:56 PM
I will update on it because I do agree, you often never hear from people again once something goes wrong with their cycle. They just seem to disappear from the forums. Well I can now report that the size of the nipple is now smaller and the puffyness has gone down and the sensitivity has gone. If I put 2 fingers wide and squeeze, I can still feel the lump underneath and I don't want to touch it so I only did this test once today. The lump is definitely smaller and if I am honest, anyone looking at me with my top off wouldn't know the difference. Hopefully it continues to go down and finally disappear.
By the way if nolva is so good at preventing the dreaded man boobs then why don't all users incorporate it on cycle? Is it due to the extra stress on the liver or something else? I wasn't sure about running it the same time as The One but nobody has warned me off it so I'm glad I used it and glad I got the advice from various people so thanks to all those who gave the good advice.
07-03-2009, 09:23 PM
The One and 2nd Gear for an explanation.
07-04-2009, 05:13 PM
BTW, I am interested to hear about the sides of the One, esp. on hair loss on the scalp and unwanted body hair growth. The men on my mother side have/had receding hair line and some male pattern baldness, and it concerns me. Anyone wants to share your experience on this?
07-04-2009, 05:20 PM
Any reports of hair loss?.
07-04-2009, 08:30 PM
Thanks Rosie. That was helpful.
07-04-2009, 09:56 PM
07-06-2009, 04:11 AM
So The One will most probably lower SHBG, SHBG protects against gyno. So indirectly it can cause gyno. I dont think it's correct to say a compound cant cause gyno because it doesnt aromatise. It can cause gyno through different routes.
07-06-2009, 09:04 PM
"The authors studied a case of left unilateral gynecomastia occurring in a 26-year-old body-builder after anabolic steroids assumption. The mammal features were found by echography and mammography and they showed the presence of a 3 cm diameter retroareolar area of gland tissue surrounded by fibrotic tissue. After excluding every likely cause giving gynecomastia through laboratory tests, it was clear a relationship with the assumption of high doses of anabolic hormones, with particular regard to methyltestosterone. Therefore, also this substance which on its own is not aromatized by extrasplanchnic tissues, can be responsible for man's mammal hypertrophy, if joined to a slight iatrogenic liver cytolysis."
The One warning label does list gynecomastia as a side, I think.
07-07-2009, 09:13 PM
1HP, I was happy with the way things were going at first as the puffiness had gone down over the course of a couple of days but I'm still waiting for further progress and to be honest it is not improving. The lump is still there and starting to become a major concern. I stopped the nolva on sunday having tapered down to 10mg but today I thought I'd better start it again along with the 2nd gear which I started 48 hours ago. Is it ok to use both of these together? I just want to try anything to get rid of this lump and larger nipple before any permanent effects take place.
I read what you said about the SHBG levels and I'm thinking it could be that but then again I was only use The One for 10 days before I noticed the effects I was getting. If this gyno or potential gyno is caused by that indirect route then should the treatment for it be any different?
For now should I up my dose of nolva and wait for it to go away? How long would it usually take for such a lump to disappear?
07-08-2009, 03:00 AM
Keep taking the nolva at 20mg, dont taper it down untill you really got it under control. This is the only real protection you're taking right now. You can take the 2nd gear alongside it. The nolva blocks estrogen action in breast tissue but doesnt lower estrogen. 2nd gear has 6bromo in which is an AI which lowers total estrogen levels. The only thing you should watch out for is when getting off the 2nd gear, estrogen might rebound a while after, can be up to 2-3 months after. I'm sorry to say this but in most cases the gyno is very hard to get rid off.
There is a harsher approach when the nolva doesnt work which is letrozole. This will nullify your estrogen (brings it down like 96-98%) and will kill your libido and make you feel like crap. I would ride out the nolva for a bit longer first though. I never had the guts to got the letro route myself yet.
If the route is low SHBG your gyno is still caused by estrogen. SHBG binds part of the available estrogen and gives you some protection that way, if its low (DHT lowers SHBG and the one is a fancy form of DHT) there is simply more estrogen available to cause gyno.
07-08-2009, 10:02 PM
It sounds like I can get it under control in the short term but then I'm in trouble again once I stop the 2nd Gear. What can be done to try and ease off it and minimise this rebound?
Also, when is the best time of the day to be taking everything? I am taking the 2nd gear before bed and the nolva in 10mgs 2 or 3 times a day spread out now. Is it ok to use the nolva and 2nd gear together?
I have introduced ALRI Alpha Drive into my PCT to try and boost my test to keep my gains. Will this also have a good effect on SHBG levels? It also says on the bottle it can control estrogen itself to an extent so I thought it would be a good addition.
Also, would it be a bad idea to use a low dose of hyperdrol x2 which has 6-bromo in it to try and negate this estrogen in the short term? I have some left over from when I was using it 2 months ago.
I am examining my chest on a regular basis now and sometimes its very noticeable and other times its not. I find this strange. Also the lump has been different sizes. If it wasn't for this lump I probably would not be worrying as the overall appearance of my chest is not that unusual. Perhaps I can add a picture but there would be nothing to compare it to.
To complicate matters further I have a holiday booked for the 16th so there will be no lifting and no nolva while I'm away.
07-09-2009, 03:19 AM
You should NOT take the alpha drive and hyperdrol x2 alongside the 2nd gear. They all lower estrogen and you're only setting yourself up for a mayor rebound + too low estrogen levels are very unhealthy while the nolva isnt exactly healthy either.
The nolva blocks estrogen action and is most important, lets say importance 90%. You can add an AI to lower estrogen a bit, like 1 cap of 2nd gear a day. Take more and you're screwing yourself.
I would take both the nolva and the 2nd gear (1 cap) before sleep. 20mg nolva should be enough but if you got a research chem you might wanna try 40mg untill symptomps go down and then switch to 20.
Its exactly going the overkill route that will make things worse for you in the future.
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