Anyone get slightly puffy nipples on The One?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by captaincrunch View Post
    Woke up this morning and the lump seems to be getting bigger. How long does it normally take before the growth is reversed and you start to see signs of it diminishing? Should I hope to see this in the next few days?
    I remember during my puberty years, my nipples were acting like that. The lump under the nipple eventually went away. Could be the One was working and was causing the hormonal surge in your body.

    BTW, I am interested to hear about the sides of the One, esp. on hair loss on the scalp and unwanted body hair growth. The men on my mother side have/had receding hair line and some male pattern baldness, and it concerns me. Anyone wants to share your experience on this?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by westpalisade View Post
    BTW, I am interested to hear about the sides of the One, esp. on hair loss on the scalp and unwanted body hair growth. The men on my mother side have/had receding hair line and some male pattern baldness, and it concerns me. Anyone wants to share your experience on this?
    There is already a thread on this topic: Any reports of hair loss?.

    ~Rosie
    Team APPNUT
    Contact Me for INDIVIDUALIZED TRAINING AND NUTRITION

    "Think like a Champion. Train like a Warrior. Live with a Purpose." - Rosie Chee
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  3. Thanks Rosie. That was helpful.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by westpalisade View Post
    Thanks Rosie. That was helpful.
    All good. It pays to have all the infomation on one issue in one place.

    ~Rosie
    Team APPNUT
    Contact Me for INDIVIDUALIZED TRAINING AND NUTRITION

    "Think like a Champion. Train like a Warrior. Live with a Purpose." - Rosie Chee

  5. Quote Originally Posted by captaincrunch View Post
    I will update on it because I do agree, you often never hear from people again once something goes wrong with their cycle. They just seem to disappear from the forums. Well I can now report that the size of the nipple is now smaller and the puffyness has gone down and the sensitivity has gone.
    Thanks for updating. Things still going in the right direction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    However, know that it is physiologically IMpossible for The ONE to give you gyno, as it is a non-aromatizable 5a-reduced compound; and a non-aromatizable 5a-reduced compound cannot give you gyno because that compound creates the opposite hormonal environment for gyno to form - i.e. no conversion of androgens to estrogen, greater binding affinity to the androgen receptors, greater androgenic potency, etc.; and once a compound has become 5a-reduced this is an irreversible process.


    ~Rosie
    Team APPNUT
    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    Many people use it on-cycle for other hormonal products. However it is not required with The ONE because The ONE does not aromatize (which is what causes gyno); see post #26 at The One and 2nd Gear for an explanation.

    ~Rosie
    Team APPNUT

    So The One will most probably lower SHBG, SHBG protects against gyno. So indirectly it can cause gyno. I dont think it's correct to say a compound cant cause gyno because it doesnt aromatise. It can cause gyno through different routes.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by 1HP View Post

    So The One will most probably lower SHBG, SHBG protects against gyno. So indirectly it can cause gyno. I dont think it's correct to say a compound cant cause gyno because it doesnt aromatise. It can cause gyno through different routes.
    A different route, possibly. As discussed in the journal Minerva Med. 1992 Sep;83(9):575-80. (I am not yet able to post a link to the article for now)

    "The authors studied a case of left unilateral gynecomastia occurring in a 26-year-old body-builder after anabolic steroids assumption. The mammal features were found by echography and mammography and they showed the presence of a 3 cm diameter retroareolar area of gland tissue surrounded by fibrotic tissue. After excluding every likely cause giving gynecomastia through laboratory tests, it was clear a relationship with the assumption of high doses of anabolic hormones, with particular regard to methyltestosterone. Therefore, also this substance which on its own is not aromatized by extrasplanchnic tissues, can be responsible for man's mammal hypertrophy, if joined to a slight iatrogenic liver cytolysis."

    The One warning label does list gynecomastia as a side, I think.

  7. 1HP, I was happy with the way things were going at first as the puffiness had gone down over the course of a couple of days but I'm still waiting for further progress and to be honest it is not improving. The lump is still there and starting to become a major concern. I stopped the nolva on sunday having tapered down to 10mg but today I thought I'd better start it again along with the 2nd gear which I started 48 hours ago. Is it ok to use both of these together? I just want to try anything to get rid of this lump and larger nipple before any permanent effects take place.

    I read what you said about the SHBG levels and I'm thinking it could be that but then again I was only use The One for 10 days before I noticed the effects I was getting. If this gyno or potential gyno is caused by that indirect route then should the treatment for it be any different?

    For now should I up my dose of nolva and wait for it to go away? How long would it usually take for such a lump to disappear?

  8. Hey man,

    Keep taking the nolva at 20mg, dont taper it down untill you really got it under control. This is the only real protection you're taking right now. You can take the 2nd gear alongside it. The nolva blocks estrogen action in breast tissue but doesnt lower estrogen. 2nd gear has 6bromo in which is an AI which lowers total estrogen levels. The only thing you should watch out for is when getting off the 2nd gear, estrogen might rebound a while after, can be up to 2-3 months after. I'm sorry to say this but in most cases the gyno is very hard to get rid off.

    There is a harsher approach when the nolva doesnt work which is letrozole. This will nullify your estrogen (brings it down like 96-98%) and will kill your libido and make you feel like crap. I would ride out the nolva for a bit longer first though. I never had the guts to got the letro route myself yet.

    If the route is low SHBG your gyno is still caused by estrogen. SHBG binds part of the available estrogen and gives you some protection that way, if its low (DHT lowers SHBG and the one is a fancy form of DHT) there is simply more estrogen available to cause gyno.

  9. It sounds like I can get it under control in the short term but then I'm in trouble again once I stop the 2nd Gear. What can be done to try and ease off it and minimise this rebound?

    Also, when is the best time of the day to be taking everything? I am taking the 2nd gear before bed and the nolva in 10mgs 2 or 3 times a day spread out now. Is it ok to use the nolva and 2nd gear together?

    I have introduced ALRI Alpha Drive into my PCT to try and boost my test to keep my gains. Will this also have a good effect on SHBG levels? It also says on the bottle it can control estrogen itself to an extent so I thought it would be a good addition.

    Also, would it be a bad idea to use a low dose of hyperdrol x2 which has 6-bromo in it to try and negate this estrogen in the short term? I have some left over from when I was using it 2 months ago.

    I am examining my chest on a regular basis now and sometimes its very noticeable and other times its not. I find this strange. Also the lump has been different sizes. If it wasn't for this lump I probably would not be worrying as the overall appearance of my chest is not that unusual. Perhaps I can add a picture but there would be nothing to compare it to.

    To complicate matters further I have a holiday booked for the 16th so there will be no lifting and no nolva while I'm away.

  10. You should NOT take the alpha drive and hyperdrol x2 alongside the 2nd gear. They all lower estrogen and you're only setting yourself up for a mayor rebound + too low estrogen levels are very unhealthy while the nolva isnt exactly healthy either.


    The nolva blocks estrogen action and is most important, lets say importance 90%. You can add an AI to lower estrogen a bit, like 1 cap of 2nd gear a day. Take more and you're screwing yourself.

    I would take both the nolva and the 2nd gear (1 cap) before sleep. 20mg nolva should be enough but if you got a research chem you might wanna try 40mg untill symptomps go down and then switch to 20.

    Its exactly going the overkill route that will make things worse for you in the future.

  11. How about a different test booster besides Alpha Drive that isn't designed to lower estrogen but just increase test? Will this increase SHBG levels and help against the estrogen? If not then it shuld help me keep the gains at least but I won't take it if its going to cause a rebound or make matters worse.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by captaincrunch View Post
    How about a different test booster besides Alpha Drive that isn't designed to lower estrogen but just increase test? Will this increase SHBG levels and help against the estrogen? If not then it shuld help me keep the gains at least but I won't take it if its going to cause a rebound or make matters worse.
    I would not add anything else next to the 2ndgear and nolva apart from maybe something like "endoamp max" and "toco-8". 2nd gear and nolva will boost your test more then enough. Seriously more is not better. You take a serm and ONE AI and thats it.

    Be carefull or you're gonna fk yourself up bad.

  13. Thanks for the awesome advice. It all makes sense to me which is important so I know why I'm doing what I'm doing. The lump seems to have gotten a little smaller again and is less sensitive to touch *hurrah* and once that goes I'm sure I will be happy with everything. Not sure if its worth taking a picture at this stage. I did try taking numerous pictures but they are not great as, depending on what angle the camera is at, it can look much worse than from straight on. From straight on its not that bad apart from the one larger nipple (which should go away?)

    I leave for holidays in a week so I will run the nolva until then. I was thinking the final 3 or 4 days at 10 mg. Hopefully the 2nd gear will be enough while I'm away.

    Looks like I have totally hijacked this threat LOL but if this can help anyone else then that's fantastic.

  14. Hey man, I hate to break it to you but the 2nd gear may not be enough. I would not go on vacation whitout your nolva. You may need to run it for quite a bit longer then 1 week.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by 1HP View Post
    3 months ago, could very well be a rebound issue then. Guejsn is right on point there. Did you use any type of AI? Maybe in "disguise", a lot of formulations out there that have some sort of AI in them, 6bromo, atd, 6oxo, formestane..

    Check attached graph, rebound spiking after 10 weeks, its after letrozole but mechanism may be the same, surpressed estro rebounding, low T+DHT vs estro levels, too low SHBG (binds estro too, not just test) can cause gyno. Doesnt The One lower SHBG btw? Interesting point there..

    And watch yourself very closely a few months post cycle if you're having issues now.

    Anecdotally The one diminshed my gyno on cycle but it rebounded with a vengeance way post pct..

    Keep that nolva stocked..

    That is damn good post- repped
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals

  16. ANY anabolic can cause gyno directly or indirectly IMO. I've had aggrevation of my pre-existing gyno from all the major designers. The One is actually treating me well in this regard as long as I don't pulse. Epi and Havoc both caused slight flaring. The key is to have a rock solid PCT in place..that being tried and true compounds like nolva/clomid/toremifene and a good AI as a back up.

  17. Update for today: Strength seems to be up for some reason while I was expecting it to remain steady or go down. Had a fantastic workout in the gym and have had mild sensitivity of the nipples which, if I got it any other time in the past, would not concern me. The overall appearance seems normal now. I did feel the lump last night and this morning but I'm not going to poke around and check for it now. Instead I will take my nolva and going to taper down to 10 mg tomorrow onwards.

    Overall I feel like I have avoided the dreaded gyno but I know I'm not out of the woods yet and the reason I'm tapering down early is to get used to a low dose of nolva now rather than later to allow more time to adjust.

    I almost feel like I had nothing much to worry about but I have to keep telling myself the lump is the sign to watch out for so, until that goes, there problem still exists.

    Hopefully 10mg for the next 6 days should sort me out. I know it is no guarantee but I'm worried about bringing this stuff away with me. Does anyone know if that is an offence?

    Edit: Also need to mention sex drive has returned... and then some. Talk about pink steel! I am back to normal in that department - if not better. Would it be safe to say I do not need to worry about my T levels now? Or is there now a new problem as they have shot right up?
    Last edited by captaincrunch; 07-10-2009 at 09:35 PM. Reason: update

  18. Going on holidays today but thought I would make an update in case this is a useful resource to somebody and plus to check I'm not doing something horribly wrong (even though I'm leaving in a few hours)

    Lump is down and doesn't feel sensitive - even had to try to find it earlier.

    Puffyness is down but not gone - still on the right sided nipple.

    Sex drive is up and down - when its up it can be extreme but I can go several hours without thinking about sex which is weird.

    Strength is still the same I guess but hard to tell as I have been doing higher rep sets and over-training this week because I'm going on holidays and wanted to go for shape instead of size/strength and about to get 2 weeks of rest anyway.

    I was doing some reading that says to ditch the 2nd Gear and just take SERM but I have been reading a lot of different things so not sure what to believe and plus, this doesn't really suit me - the risk of bringing nolvadex on holiday isn't one I'm willing to take. Some people advise putting it in a vitamin bottle but then how do you explain that when it is discovered. For this reason I'm just going to bring the 2nd gear and stick to that.

    I hope it keeps the gyno at bay although I know its not really designed to. If anything the androgenic effects of the 2nd gear can trigger gyno in a high estrogen environment as I have been told. Hopefully my hormone levels have adjusted themselves enough in the past short while so that gyno will no longer occur. Is an estrogen rebound after this PCT a realistic problem or have I contained it by staying on 10 mg nolva for the past week (after higher doses initially)? I guess I won't get to read the advice/replies until I get back now but I may find a way of getting online. Wish me luck.

  19. well lets just say you timed your cycle badly just before a vacation

    It is indeed way better to ditch the 2nd gear and keep going on the nolva. The 2ndgear blocks the armatise enzyme so that it cannot convert testosterone to estrogen. This causes a rebound effect in the long run as your body adapts and starts producing more aromatise enzyme which increasing your body's ability to convert test to estrogen. If you were using nolva the rebound would still happen but you would block estrogen binding to estrogen receptors in breast tissue because of the nolva having a higher binding affinity to those effectively blocking estrogen from binding to them.

    If you cant take the nolva along you can keep running the 2nd gear and hope it keeps estrogen levels at bay enough till you return from your vacation.

    Its not pretty though, you should keep running the nolva till all your gyno symptoms are away. Pray this endavour will not end up giving you permanent man boobs.

    Goodluck! I hope you will be ok.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by 1HP View Post
    well lets just say you timed your cycle badly just before a vacation

    It is indeed way better to ditch the 2nd gear and keep going on the nolva. The 2ndgear blocks the armatise enzyme so that it cannot convert testosterone to estrogen. This causes a rebound effect in the long run as your body adapts and starts producing more aromatise enzyme which increasing your body's ability to convert test to estrogen. If you were using nolva the rebound would still happen but you would block estrogen binding to estrogen receptors in breast tissue because of the nolva having a higher binding affinity to those effectively blocking estrogen from binding to them.

    If you cant take the nolva along you can keep running the 2nd gear and hope it keeps estrogen levels at bay enough till you return from your vacation.

    Its not pretty though, you should keep running the nolva till all your gyno symptoms are away. Pray this endavour will not end up giving you permanent man boobs.

    Goodluck! I hope you will be ok.
    if you cant get a serm, wud a test booster help prevent this?

  21. Quote Originally Posted by mark118 View Post
    if you cant get a serm, wud a test booster help prevent this?
    You might aswell ask if bears can fly.

    Please dont start any hormonal product if you're knowledge is on this level.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by 1HP View Post
    You might aswell ask if bears can fly.

    Please dont start any hormonal product if you're knowledge is on this level.
    yea, in retrospect i understand my comment sounded silly, but my rational was that i thought that the ai would inhibit the conversion to oest allowing time for re-establishing the HPTA but if there was any doubt, the test boost would help restore the oestrogen to test ratio.

    I say that because people always say that the PCT should be 4 weeks eg using an AI.... but the test boosting has limits of twice that.

    i hope that makes more sense

  23. Quote Originally Posted by mark118 View Post
    yea, in retrospect i understand my comment sounded silly, but my rational was that i thought that the ai would inhibit the conversion to oest allowing time for re-establishing the HPTA but if there was any doubt, the test boost would help restore the oestrogen to test ratio.

    I say that because people always say that the PCT should be 4 weeks eg using an AI.... but the test boosting has limits of twice that.

    i hope that makes more sense
    Tapering down your AI can prevent the issue.

  24. Just arrived back from my holidays and I am pleased to say that the gyno did not materialise. I did however become totally shutdown after the 3rd day and I stopped taking the 2nd Gear as a result. Still no sex drive now a week later. I was wondering what has caused this as before I went away it was higher than usual using the nolva and I hadn't been taking The One for over a week. I did stop the nolva on the day that I went away so I guess both my estrogen and testosterone were lower than I wanted and I had nothing to make me produce more testosterone. I wasn't expecting to get shutdown on a short cycle but has this happened because I did introduce the nolva whilst still on The One? Also one last question: What do I do now? Start the nolva up again or buy some Drive to boost test. I am still wary of an estrogen rebound though as I know its not over yet.

  25. I dont completely understand. Can you describe exactly how many days you took The One, how many days nolva and how many days 2ndgear? Like day 1-30 theone, day 25-35 nolva, day 30-35 2ndgear?

  26. I posted on the 29th of June saying I had been on The One for about a week and a half and noticing signs of gyno so whats 10 or 11 days. I then started the nolva and continued with both for 10 more days. I then stopped The One and started 2nd Gear and continued with the nolva for 6 days or so. I then stopped the nolva and continued with 2nd Gear for only 3 days then stopped due to dramatically reduced sex drive and also becoming slightly ill on holidays (spanish food or maybe swine flu who knows.) It is now a week after that and I must say I have noticed puffyness has gone down and so has my bodyfat. It is very noticable as I can see my stomach muscles and the muscles across my chest which weren't visible before. I have lost a massive 8 pounds of body weight in the 10 days I was away. I am hoping that it wasn't mostly muscle. I started back to training today and did my back and I do feel weaker but not much. I also noticed the sex drive returned a little in the past 24 hours.

    So it looks something like this:

    Day 1 - 21 - The One
    Day 11 - 27 - Nolva
    Day 22 - 30 - 2nd Gear

  27. Ok, well thats 3 weeks of The One with 9 days of "pct". Thats not enough indeed so you're probably shutdown a bit. Luckily for you The One seems not to be too hard on shutdown.

    Quickest route to restart your own test production is starting up the nolva again. You need a proper pct.

  28. Thanks I will do that then. How many mgs per day do you think?

    Wish I had stopped The One after 10 days now instead of 3 weeks cos I have probably lost my gains on the holiday despite trying my best to avoid it. My testosterone must have dropped so low that I was unable to keep hold of what I had. Is it usual to lose 8 pounds on a 10 day holiday when you are not training? Hopefully I will regain some of that now that I am starting to eat properly again.

  29. Thats also partially muscle glycocen, but yeah, you ran a really crappy pct so chances are you lost most if not all of your gains.

    Losing 8 pounds in 10 days, I can do that when taking Creatine Monohydrate and stopping that. But you probably just lost your gains.

    I would do 20mg, taper to 10.

  30. OK I will do 20mg starting now but for how long?

    I had to use some Aspire36 last night to guarantee performance in the bedroom but it was the first time I used it and wasn't expecting to have a diamond cutter all day today. Man that stuff is powerful. I don't think I will use it again though I had to just make sure the girlfriend didn't suspect anything was wrong with me (or her) after last time when it just wasn't happening. I didn't want to introduce anything new but it did the trick anyway.

    As for the gains being lost I will report how my my strength in the gym goes this week and next week. I really have toned up a lot on holidays (due to being unable to eat for a few days) so I'm hoping some of the loss was fat. I will see how much I can regain in the next few weeks without getting fat.
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