still no answer re the fin question?
The main reason guys have issues on PCT is because their T:E gets too low and cortisol comes up during the cycle to counterbalance high T levels- so the goal in PCT is to keep E at bay while raising T levels and reducing cortisol concurrently. You tend to lose a good bit of LH activity on a heavy cycle due to androgen feedback on the HPTA, and when the AR in the pituitary and hypothalamus become heavily bound- GnRH no longer pulses, so no more LH or FSH is released into the blood. No LH, no signal to the testes to produce T or spermatogenesis. Carnitine levels also plunge significantly in the testes as well under these conditions- and this compound is vital in natural testosterone production/spermatogenesis.
Key is to keep carnitine levels stable, keep E at bay, lower cortisol, and to stimulate LH release, which will bring up T levels.
Some legitimate LH releasers
HCG- 250 iu 3x a week during a cycle will stop shutdown during a cycle
Forskolin @ 50 mg/day of 100% extract or equivalent lower dosage with lower extract- it increases cAMP better than anything else out there, which increases LH secretion.
Res-v is a decent choice @ 750 mg/day of the 100% extract- it increases cAMP, which increases LH secretion
E antagonists/aromatase inhibitors
6-Bromo @ 50 mg day- lowers estrogen levels and increases free testosterone in a non-suppressive manner
Clomid @ 50 mg/day- lowers estrogen levels and increases free test
Nolva @ 20 mg/day- lowers estrogen levels and increases free test
6,7 benzoflavone might be a good choice- it antagonizes the E receptor and can normalize T:E
Icariin @ 250 mg/day of 100% extract or equivalent lower dosage with lower extract- is a strong flavone that acts as both a SERM and a SARM and antagonizes E receptor so in this case 500 mg of the 50%, 1,250/day of the 20%, etc. Icariin also inhibits PDE-5 and increases cGMP and therefore NOS and NO- this allows for increased LH secretion as well (hint: 2nd Gear/Drive/ALCAR is a VERY good idea for PCT- RPM would be a good add-in as well).
ALCAR or L-Carnitine
2-4 grams per day will work wonders to get things up and running- it is a supp that has been around forever, but is phenomenal for a lot of different purposes
Recommendations for PCT
Dirk's recommendations (from what has worked for him) and does not allude to any specific product:
* 6- Bromo 50-100 mg/day (lowers E)
* Forskolin equivalent to 50 mg/day (increases LH)
* Creatine Mono 5 grams per day (keeps CP stores high- this will increase nitrogen retention naturally)
* Strong Anti-Oxidant (lowers cortisol levels and free radical damage)
* Omega 3's 2-3 grams/day (increases insulin sensitvity and normalizes cholesterol)
* Cissus Quadrangularis 1000 mg/day of 50% extract (keeps cortisol levels low)
* ALCAR 2-4 grams/day (keeps spermatogenesis going and helps maintain endogenous T)
still no answer re the fin question?
Finasteride does reduce 5-AR, but it also decreases serum DHT by 70%. While this may be due to blocking the conversion, there might well be a chance that it is not necessarily due to a blockage of 5-AR, but may have more to do with competitive inhibition with the AR;- thus preventing DHT (or in this case DHT-like substances - i.e. The ONE) from binding the AR in skeletal muscle.
You can definitely get away with only 2nd Gear for PCT with this stuff. I've done Epistane and Tren Xtreme before and used SERMS with those(both toremifene and tomoxifene citrate) and still lost a pretty good percentage of the gains. 4.5 weeks now have passed since I stopped The One and only used 2nd Gear for PCT. I've only gone down 2 lbs so far and zero strength losses.
EDIT: Well "only" 2nd Gear is a little bit of a lie. Gone through 2 bottles of Prime, also some beta alanine but nothing that really acts on hormones like a SERM.
Can run the ONe for 4-6 weeks?
that is the suggested time.
- Join Me: Tex89 M-Sten RX Log... Dicing that iron -
Forgive my curt brevity you sound like an Applied Nutriceuticals Representative..no offense
..why wouldnt I consider a serious PCT like Clomid or Nolvadex for a Pro hormone like this..??!! PLEASE ANSWER !!
Lastly no saw palmetto so at least 1000 MG of red yeast & milk thistle right for liver concerns since it is methylated...?
5'9" 180lbs +/- (depending on the frigging temp & stress of the day) [hard gainer weight can vary 10lbs in a day or two] 41 years old, training Hard 6+ years - bench 225 easily squat 315 +/- dumbell curl 55... skull crushers good form 35lbs, bad form 50lbs but not stressful...
these are stats at my 8-9 range on a scale of 1-10...considering 10 would be healthy after cycle or early cycle
I.E. bench 225 is normal squat 315 is normal no-cycle & good eating... none stress at work & home & we al know that actually isnt the norm..
this is kind-of crazy for me cause I'm crazy strong but just want to be visibly bigger.. thats kind-of vain isnt it ?!?!? I wonder if I should even get "The One" maybe I should try something wierd like training chest two days in a row and see if the pump stays longer than a day ???
Wifie hates this "hobby" she wants the scrawny guy she married back
I hate that guy ....
Sorry for the novel appreciate your answers..and the flames that this post will invoke its all educational !!!
I had a question i know there is alot of good feedback on the one but 10-15lb for a very experienced lifter and user it probablly out of the question so i was wondering what do you think an experienced user is going to get out of this likely. I mean someone with 10plus years of gear who's had the benefit of professional trainers and nutritionists etc
You could use something like that, but there is no need. If you've read any of the logs, you will see that most loggers used a basic PCT (as recommended), and had no issues at all.
Milk thistle is recommended for on-cycle, yes (it's in 2nd GEAR, so no need for extra in PCT).
As for 'the norm", there IS NO "norm" when it comes to bodybuilding. Every individual is different in how they respond to diet and training and supplements and life. I can guarantee you that there are people out there whose "norm" is just as good as you consider yours to be.
If you want to be "visibly bigger", then you either need to get leaner or gain more muscle mass.
Just check out Don and Dirk's results. Dirk gained 18lbs and has kept ALL of them; he kept a video log so that you can SEE his progress throughout the cycle: RMS80's The One Log- w/ video.... and RMS80'S THE ONE LOG W/ VIDEO
I am an experienced guy with 15 years plus of hard training, athletics, etc. who TRAINS- I gained 18 lbs. just following my own recommendations- go check out my log for The One- it has videos and pics from my entire cycle......
As for the PCT question....no need for flaming- b/c if you follow our recommendations- I can help you keep every lb. that you gain off The One. You don't need Nolva or Clomid- they have the tendency to cause more issues than they are worth for many people.....
As for on-cycle- for anti-oxidant support, take Bio-Mend- it is a strong anti-oxidant with cardiovascular support, and Omega Essentials- fish oil has been shown to promote healthy lipid balances...
Try this for PCT- this is what I did after a 5 week cycle of The One, and I haven't lost a single lb., even with running 5-8 miles per day:
2nd Gear 1 capsule per day
3-4 grams of L-Carnitine or ALCAR
6 Drive per day
Osteo-Sport (optional, but it lowers cortisol)
This is a serious PCT in terms of effectiveness- and it actually elevates mood, rather than depressing it, like Nolva and Clomid do for a lot of people. This PCT promotes LH elevation through several different MOAs, keeps estrogen levels very low through both inhibiting aromatization (6-Bromo) and antagonizing E (icariin in Drive), increases free test levels (6-bromo), antagonizing glucocorticoids and cytokines (cissus in Osteo-Sport), and increases spermatogenesis and endogenous T production (L-Carn, icariin and forskolin in Drive).
Nolva and Clo? They antagonize estrogen- but they don't address several other key issues that arise during PCT. They can cause depression, and can also cause rebound gyno in a lot of users as well- plus they don't address other key issues regarding the restarting of the HPTA- high cytokine levels, low testicular L-Carnitine levels, low leptin levels, low levels of certain minerals in the testes, etc.
Using just nolva or clomid for PCT is like having a house with 4 holes in the roof, and only fixing one of them- they don't address the entire issue.
Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals
I didnt realize the hottie was a rep until immediately after my post....sorry !!! nice new avatar
Again I thank you for the replies.. the package The One & 2nd Cycle sit here awaiting their friends to arrive and for some stress to go away before I get started seriously... I learned yesterday that lower weight cable cross hits more of the chest....BOnUS!!!..
gotta miss todays workout to practice some guitar for a guy a church (wants to sing a solo & I've been putting off learning the ugly song) but yea thanks again I really appreciate the owners reply I'll be copying your PCT sir but I need to look up some of the elements first... I research Heavy before lifting heavy with a PH !!
REALLY THANK YOU !!!! I'll be reviewing your log as recommended...!!
the hottie responds again "blush"
anyway this shopping list from American nutty is getting friggin large....
can I do Glutamine On Cycle with this product...
I didn't see L Glutamine in any of the "addendums" the "Owner" added to my shopping list
again I appreciate the responses,, anyone other than owners and Reps have their two cents in this whole... the One product ??
oh back on topic
L Glutamine on cycle and post cycle ??? any concerns ?? .. ( obviously I've been missing my glute recently )
Two, the literature on L-Glutamine supplementation is conflicted as to whether it actually has any benefits for hard trainees (although, if you're sedentary or the average inactive person, it will do good for your immune system), even at very high doses; so whether or not you use (on-cycle or in PCT) it is entirely up to you.
Three, there IS a feedback thread: ***FEEDBACK on The ONE***, where extracts from loggers (and non-loggers) are all collated. Look there; you'll find a lot of feedback/thoughts on The ONE (you might also want to read through some of the logs).
#1) seriously YOU changed your avatar gimmie a break what'd ya expect but OK Mature respectful blah blah .. point made but yea still
#2) Thanks again will peruse the link Good to know Glute's good for the immune system too.... that's helpful