The One and 2nd Gear

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    The One and 2nd Gear


    Yes more questions lol.

    Guys who have used this how did you dose it? I see the half life is between 8-10 hrs. I will be using max dose 4 caps. 2 caps 2 times a day sound good? Or 1 cap 4x a day?

    I will be stacking 2nd gear with BioForge. I am currently using BioForge and love it. For anyone who doesn't know whats in it here it is.

    Forslean (20% forskolin) - 250mg
    Epimedium (40% icariin) - 400mg
    Indole-3-carbinol - 300mg
    OptiZinc - 50mg

    Per 2 caps.

    Should I taper this down and not taper the 2nd gear? How would you guys dose these together?

    Thanks! I am looking forward to doing this in the near future.

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    BTW Dirk very nice and informative podcast you did!
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    What podcast?
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatsaRoid? View Post
    What podcast?
    This one: Super Human Radio Network
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    Ok here is my plan when I get ready to run the one.

    Cycle-

    The One- 4 caps a day 2 caps 2x a day- For 27 days. 1 bottle at 4 caps.

    Supports-

    SAMe- 400mg daily- Big fan of this stuff.
    Hawthrone Berry- I run it pretty much daily anyway.

    PCT-

    weeks 1-3: 4 Bio Forge/day
    week 2-5: 1 2nd gear/day

    Thoughts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heracles25 View Post
    Ok here is my plan when I get ready to run the one.

    Cycle-

    The One- 4 caps a day 2 caps 2x a day- For 27 days. 1 bottle at 4 caps.

    Supports-

    SAMe- 400mg daily- Big fan of this stuff.
    Hawthrone Berry- I run it pretty much daily anyway.

    PCT-

    weeks 1-3: 4 Bio Forge/day
    week 2-5: 1 2nd gear/day

    Thoughts?
    Sounds tasty
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    I would suggest starting off at 3 caps for a few days and check out if you have any problems, then from there increase. Otherwise, Good luck and hit me up via PM or this thread if you have any more questions.
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    I like your plan bud. If you should any help, or have questions...ask away here.

    Cheers!
    "Never trust a b*tch because b*tches be crazy, now get out there and go crush some P***Y!" - Jerry Stiller.
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    I didn't know my thread got bumped. Thanks for the replies fellas. Once I get ready to do this I will log it here as well as bb.com.
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    Question - looking to do 3 a day.

    Should I take all 3 in the morning or 2 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizmal View Post
    Question - looking to do 3 a day.

    Should I take all 3 in the morning or 2 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon?
    You can do either. Start off with 3 caps first thing in the morning. If you start experiencing any lethargy then go to splitting the dose into 2 caps first thing in the morning, and then 1 caps 4-6 hours later.
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    Sounds good, thanks
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    Have this and 2nd Gear on hand for a future run (Thanks, NP!). Questions: Should/can I run five caps due to my weight? Also, what is the maximum (in weeks) I can run this? Just curious. Thanks...
    "I am NOT an alcoholic. Alcoholics have a drinking problem. I ain't got no problem drinking!!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by ex-tightend83 View Post
    Have this and 2nd Gear on hand for a future run (Thanks, NP!). Questions: Should/can I run five caps due to my weight? Also, what is the maximum (in weeks) I can run this? Just curious. Thanks...
    4 caps is the MAXIMUM recommended dosage ANYone should use.

    5 weeks is the MAXIMUM period over which you should run The ONE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    4 caps is the MAXIMUM recommended dosage ANYone should use.

    5 weeks is the MAXIMUM period over which you should run The ONE.
    Thanks for responding so quickly. I will definitely follow this protocol. I guess I'd have to invest in another bottle to run it for five weeks at 4 caps a day, unless my math is wrong; I'd just have 3/4 of a bottle left over for another future run.
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    Don't you want to run 2nd gear from the1st week of PCT and not wait?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ex-tightend83 View Post
    Thanks for responding so quickly. I will definitely follow this protocol. I guess I'd have to invest in another bottle to run it for five weeks at 4 caps a day, unless my math is wrong; I'd just have 3/4 of a bottle left over for another future run.
    One bottle lasts ~4 weeks at 4 caps a day, so I would recommend that you just use it for 4 weeks.


    Quote Originally Posted by pfafkl13 View Post
    Don't you want to run 2nd gear from the1st week of PCT and not wait?
    You would start 2nd GEAR from the day after the day that you took your last dose of The ONE.
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    Does "The 1" need a SERM for PCT? or 2nd Gear is enough?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rush808 View Post
    Does "The 1" need a SERM for PCT? or 2nd Gear is enough?
    No, The ONE does NOt need a SERM. As long as you follow the PCT recommendations (2nd GEAR and a testosterone booster (plus your staples) as a minimum) you should be fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    No, The ONE does NOt need a SERM. PCT recommendations (2nd GEAR and a testosterone booster (plus your staples) as a minimum) you should be fine.
    suggested product?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rush808 View Post
    suggested product?
    I would recommend Drive at a minimum.
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    So how is this guy getting on so far, not given up, has he?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Tee View Post
    So how is this guy getting on so far, not given up, has he?
    If he has given any feedback then it will be in The ONE Feedback thread: ***FEEDBACK on The ONE***.
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    Thank you thank you, too kind!
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    I have been impressed with the logs and reviews on the one and am planning on using this product very soon for recomp.

    MY QUESTION IS: What is the science behind not using a SERM for the product for PCT. This is a WIDELY accepted standard for DS/PH. It is repeatedly encouraged and most believe it is necessary.
    6-bromo is a good AI with very low toxicity compared to other AIs. But it just doesnt make sense to me to not use a SERM inversely ramped with a AI.
    It seems to be a missing ingredient. And You guys have repeated say a SERM isnt nescessary. This seems counter productive and counter intuitive. Am I missing something? I could be.
    Im not being a nay sayer, as I intensely look forward to using The ONE/ Second Gear.
    I just want a good scientific reason not to use SERM, other wise I will plan a PCT with SERM.

    Please educate me, fill me in.
    BTW im listening to the "SUPERHUMAN RADIO review on the ONE". If this answers my question Ill edit my post.
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    Exclamation The ONE is a non-aromatizable, 5 alpha-reduced compound


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Tee View Post
    Thank you thank you, too kind!
    No worries.


    Quote Originally Posted by Umberto View Post
    I have been impressed with the logs and reviews on the one and am planning on using this product very soon for recomp.

    MY QUESTION IS: What is the science behind not using a SERM for the product for PCT. This is a WIDELY accepted standard for DS/PH. It is repeatedly encouraged and most believe it is necessary.
    6-bromo is a good AI with very low toxicity compared to other AIs. But it just doesnt make sense to me to not use a SERM inversely ramped with a AI.
    It seems to be a missing ingredient. And You guys have repeated say a SERM isnt nescessary. This seems counter productive and counter intuitive. Am I missing something? I could be.
    Im not being a nay sayer, as I intensely look forward to using The ONE/ Second Gear.
    I just want a good scientific reason not to use SERM, other wise I will plan a PCT with SERM.

    Please educate me, fill me in.
    BTW im listening to the "SUPERHUMAN RADIO review on the ONE". If this answers my question Ill edit my post.
    The science behind NOT using a SERM for PCT is because The ONE is a non-aromatizable, 5 alpha-reduced compound.

    A brief article below, written specifically for this explanation:


    What is the physiological reason that a non-aromatizable 5a-reduced compound cannot give you gyno?

    Written by Rosie Chee, BExSpSc
    April 2009

    What is gyno?

    "Gyno" is short for gynecomastia. Gynecomastia is the benign unilateral or bilateral glandular proliferation of the breast tissue in a male[1,2,3].

    Pathophysiology of gyno?

    Gynecomastia can be caused by a number of factors, including an increase in serum estrogen concentration[1,3], a decrease in serum androgen concentration[1,4], androgen-receptor problem[1,4], genetic variants in aromatase enzymes[5,6], adrenal disorders[3], hypersensitive breast tissue[1], certain drugs, and marijuana use[3]. The most common cause of gynecomastia is the imbalance of hormones, with an increase in estrogenic effects relative to androgenic action at the breast tissue[4,7].

    What does 'non-aromatizable' mean?

    Non-aromatizable means that the compound has aromatase inhibiting properties; therefore no estrogen transformation can occur from androgens[8].

    What is a 5a-reduced compound?

    DHT is a potent non-aromatizable androgen receptor agonist[9]. 17a-methyl-etioallocholan-17b-ol-3-hydroxyimine (i.e. The ONE) is a 5a-reduced derivative of DHT. Although a 5a-reduced androgen compound can be metabolized into other androgenic compounds, it cannot aromatize to estrogens[8], because it lacks the capacity to interact with the 5a reductase enzyme, and the 5a-reduction process is an irreversible pathway.

    How does a 5a-reduced compound work?

    5a-reduced compounds, like most androgens, bind to androgen receptors. 5a-reduced compounds display a stronger binding affinity for intracellular androgen receptors[10,11], and 5a-reduced derivatives of DHT are potent androgens[12].

    Why can a non-aromatizable 5a-reduced compound not cause gynecomastia?

    The physiological reason that a non-aromatizable 5a-reduced compound cannot give you gynecomastia is because that compound creates the opposite hormonal environment for gynecomastia to form - i.e. no conversion of androgens to estrogen, greater binding affinity to the androgen receptors, greater androgenic potency, etc.; and once a compound has become 5a-reduced this is an irreversible process.


    REFERENCE LIST

    1 Braunstein, G. D. (1993). Gynecomastia. The New England Journal of Medicine, 328(7). (p. 490-495).
    2 Czajka I. & Zgliczyński W. (2005). Gynecomastia: pathogenesis, diagnosis and treatment. Endokrynol Pol, 56(3). (p. 269-277).
    3 Marieb, E. (2004). Human anatomy and physiology (6th ed.). San Fransisco, CA, USA: Pearson Benjamin Cummings.
    4 Narula, H. S. & Carlson, H. E. (2007). Gynecomastia. Endocrinol Metab Clin North Am, 36(2). (p. 497-519).
    5 Hutchison JB. (1993) Aromatase: Neuromodulator in the Control of Behavior. Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, 44 (4-6). (p. 509-520).
    6 Shinoda K. (1994) Brain Aromatization and its Associated .Structures. Endocrine Journal, 41(2). (p. 115-138).
    7 Mathur, R. & Braunstein, G. D. (1997). Gynecomastia: Pathomechanisms and treatment strategies. Horm Res, 48(3). (p. 95-102).
    8 Smith, S. S. (2003). Neurosteroid effects in the central nervous system. Brooklyn, New york, USA: CRC Press.
    9 Shilling, A. D. & Williams, D. E. (2000). The non-aromatizable androgen, dihydrotestosterone, induces antiestrogenic responses in the rainbow trout. Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, 74(4). (p. 187-194).
    10 Lemus, A. M., Enríquez, J., García, G. A., Grillasca, I. & Pérez-Palacios, G. (1997). 5α-Reduction of norethisterone enhances its binding affinity for androgen receptors but diminishes its androgenic potency. The Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, 60(1-2). (p. 121-129).
    11 Tóth, M. & Zakár, T. (1982). Relative binding affinities of testosterone, 19-nortestosterone and their 5 alpha-reduced derivatives to the androgen receptor and to other androgen-binding proteins: a suggested role of 5 alpha-reductive steroid metabolism in the dissociation of "myotropic" and "androgenic" activities of 19-nortestosterone. J Steroid Biochem, 17(6). (p. 653-660).
    12 Steimer, T. H. (1993). Steroid hormone metabolism. In A. Campana, J.J. Dreifuss, P. Sizonenko, J.D. Vassalli, J. Villar (Eds.). Reproductive Health. Ares-Serono Symposia Series - Frontiers in Endocrinology, 2. Rome: Ares Serono Symposia Publications.


    As a side note:
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk Tanis
    oxymetholone (anadrol) is the only 5-alpha reduced compound that can allow for gyno-type symptoms- this is due to a hydroxymethylene attachment on C2- no other DHT-derived compound has this structure- A-50 can act on the E receptor b/c of it

    ~Rosie
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    Milk Thistle is recommended for liver support during the cycle. How much of it (mg) will I need to take? I read in one of the threads here which mentioned 1000 mg, but I'm not sure. Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by westpalisade View Post
    Milk Thistle is recommended for liver support during the cycle. How much of it (mg) will I need to take? I read in one of the threads here which mentioned 1000 mg, but I'm not sure. Thanks.
    the amount of milk thistle is up to you, if you read that 1000mg is the usual dose, then I believe that would be safe to follow.
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    Rosie, lol you answered indirectly here but I think I follow
    So if I understand correct this is the logic..........
    Since 5A cant aromatize, Estrogen will be low, little to no conversion. (hence no gyno)
    More than likely with 5A reduced compounds, Estrogen may indeed be low after a cycle and the typical estrogen rebound wont be as profound. Therefore you dont need a SERM to block off the estrogen receptor, per se. Because you wont encounter such high levels of estrogen.
    But how do you jumpstart your own test production? Im not sure if an AI is enough? Am I wrong?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umberto View Post
    Rosie, lol you answered indirectly here but I think I follow
    So if I understand correct this is the logic..........
    Since 5A cant aromatize, Estrogen will be low, little to no conversion. (hence no gyno)
    More than likely with 5A reduced compounds, Estrogen may indeed be low after a cycle and the typical estrogen rebound wont be as profound. Therefore you dont need a SERM to block off the estrogen receptor, per se. Because you wont encounter such high levels of estrogen.
    But how do you jumpstart your own test production? Im not sure if an AI is enough? Am I wrong?
    No an AI is not enough, that is why we recommend certain test boosters for PCT
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    Quote Originally Posted by westpalisade View Post
    Milk Thistle is recommended for liver support during the cycle. How much of it (mg) will I need to take? I read in one of the threads here which mentioned 1000 mg, but I'm not sure. Thanks.
    1.5g (i.e. 1500 mg) of milk thistle daily on-cycle is plenty. 1000 mg is fine.


    Quote Originally Posted by TexasLifter89 View Post
    No an AI is not enough, that is why we recommend certain test boosters for PCT
    ^^^This is correct. Drive at the MINIMUM is recommended.

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    So Drive or another "Good" test booster with 2nd gear for 4 weeks then?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Tee View Post
    So Drive or another "Good" test booster with 2nd gear for 4 weeks then?
    Yes. Preferably a testosterone booster that rasies cAMP levels.

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    "rasies cAMP levels"

    Hmmmm, an example of specific products would be???
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Tee View Post
    "rasies cAMP levels"

    Hmmmm, an example of specific products would be???
    Any product that contains Forskolin (i.e. Forslean).

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    Will these ever be sold on amazon or some other more mainstream site? Just wondering... I am planning on trying The One this Fall after I have added some more mass.
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    Take it where you can as long as its the real deal!!!! Amazon, Ha!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1234builder View Post
    Will these ever be sold on amazon or some other more mainstream site? Just wondering... I am planning on trying The One this Fall after I have added some more mass.
    I don't know, but I doubt it.

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    so its recommended to take drive as a minimum on pct?

    and i was wondering if Universals uni-liver tabs would be enough to use on cycle/pct or if i should get some milk thistle?
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    Quote Originally Posted by therosser View Post
    so its recommended to take drive as a minimum on pct?

    and i was wondering if Universals uni-liver tabs would be enough to use on cycle/pct or if i should get some milk thistle?
    Yes, it is recommended to use 2nd GEAR + Drive as a MINIMUM on PCT.

    You can use Uni-Liver on-cycle and in PCT.

    There is Milk Thistle in 2nd GEAR, so you don't really need a second product with it in.


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