What the hell? (RPM)

[Ubiyca]

Ok.. 1. Since when was RPM reformulated?

40% Icariin? and it's the 3rd ingredient now? L-arginine and Grapeseed above it???

ALSO my bottle didnt really look "full", I opened it up, bam, the seal came RIGHT OFF with the bottle... wtf??

Now i gotta count 200 some pills to see if they're all here, cause they sure don't look all here.. ugh..

Anyway what gives with the reformulation? I hope the product is as good, on nutra it lists 50% Icariin, etc, just like the old one...

ALSO THE grapeseed went from 98% to 95%. =(

 

[Ubiyca]

I just counted, 244pills. LOL I'm not complaining about that.

But whyyy the reformulation and is there the sammmme benefit because I just had the workout of my life yesterday with the original RPM!

 

[Steveoph]

It's better! THere's a writeup with the changes in this forum, sorry can't find it right now but you can try

 

[Ubiyca]

The Methyl AMP Complex changed too.. did it?

before it was chocamine and caffeine, is it still the same just different wording??

 

[Ubiyca]

It's better! THere's a writeup with the changes in this forum, sorry can't find it right now but you can try

I'm trying to search for it, no luck so far, I would really like to see that.. any ideas how to find it easily (what to search for, where to search?)

 

[Ubiyca]

bump

?

 

[C-19]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/company-promotions/100378-so-who-loves-2.html

Don't know if this is what you were looking for. It is on the second page somewhat near the bottom.

 

[Ubiyca]

Thanks, that explains the caffeine and chocamine but not why they reduced Icariin from 50% to 40% and made it the second last ingredient ???

I just now read someone who said they don't get the same alphamale feeling from the NEW rpm too... =[

 

[Outside Backer]

Here's the skinny:

Easy question first: "Why the hell is it called Big Block?"
Answer: It's an automotive analogy. (I guess you're not a gearhead...LOL) Back in the day during the reign of muscle cars, the big block V8s ruled the road. Ford 429s and 460s, Mopar 383s and 440s (and of course the 426 hemi), and Chevy 427s and 454s. Muscle cars...big blocks...you get the picture.

As for the chocamine: The original version contained the patented version of cocoa extract; Chocamine, which is standardized to 12% theobromine. Availability became unreliable plus the price went up every time we ordered it, so we had to seek alternatives. Standard cocao extract is standardized to 10% theobromine, so we made up the difference with pure theobromine - in fact we added a little more than that - so it's actually a little more potent than the original. All other main constituents are pretty much the same in either extract.

Methyl xanthine caffeine vs. "regular" caffeine: It's the same caffeine. No change in the capsule, only how it's written on the label. Our attorney now reviews all of our labels for DSHEA compliance, and use of the most common name is preferred.

240-Count DRIVE: On it's way. We call it "OVERDRIVE". (Another automotive analogy...LOL)

Hope that clears everything up.

 

[Ubiyca]

Here's the skinny:

Easy question first: "Why the hell is it called Big Block?"
Answer: It's an automotive analogy. (I guess you're not a gearhead...LOL) Back in the day during the reign of muscle cars, the big block V8s ruled the road. Ford 429s and 460s, Mopar 383s and 440s (and of course the 426 hemi), and Chevy 427s and 454s. Muscle cars...big blocks...you get the picture.

As for the chocamine: The original version contained the patented version of cocoa extract; Chocamine, which is standardized to 12% theobromine. Availability became unreliable plus the price went up every time we ordered it, so we had to seek alternatives. Standard cocao extract is standardized to 10% theobromine, so we made up the difference with pure theobromine - in fact we added a little more than that - so it's actually a little more potent than the original. All other main constituents are pretty much the same in either extract.

Methyl xanthine caffeine vs. "regular" caffeine: It's the same caffeine. No change in the capsule, only how it's written on the label. Our attorney now reviews all of our labels for DSHEA compliance, and use of the most common name is preferred.

240-Count DRIVE: On it's way. We call it "OVERDRIVE". (Another automotive analogy...LOL)

Hope that clears everything up.

It clears the second part of my question up, but what about the Icariin reduced from 50% to 40%?? This wasn't listed on Nutra when I bought it, it was listed as 50%! But why did you guys change that?

 

[Terencec]

Thanks, that explains the caffeine and chocamine but not why they reduced Icariin from 50% to 40% and made it the second last ingredient ???

I just now read someone who said they don't get the same alphamale feeling from the NEW rpm too... =[

 

[Ubiyca]

Apparently.. from my answer on BB.COM.. they cut the Icariin so people could stack it with DRIVE and they wouldn't be getting too much Icariin.. but yet, they keep the price the same.. and say it's BETTER... I smell bullshit? =/

 

[Terencec]

Yes the fact the rep completely ignores this question, makes it even more so.

 

[Steveoph]

....

240-Count DRIVE: On it's way. We call it "OVERDRIVE". (Another automotive analogy...LOL)

Hope that clears everything up.

I see your overdrive, and I raise you an OVERDRIVE: IN STOCK NOW AT NUTRAPLANET

 

[Outside Backer]

Apparently.. from my answer on BB.COM.. they cut the Icariin so people could stack it with DRIVE and they wouldn't be getting too much Icariin.. but yet, they keep the price the same.. and say it's BETTER... I smell bullshit? =/

cry? :whiner:

 

[Ubiyca]

cry? :whiner:

Uhhh??

Of any rep, from any company out there, you HAVE GOT to be the biggest douchebottle.

Congrats! :study:

 

[Outside Backer]

thank you

i try hard

each year there is an award given to the biggest douchebottle

its usually nominated by some cry baby on the board. Last yr i was 3rd place

thank you for the nomination
2008 was a great yr. ill prep my speech :lol:

 

[Ubiyca]

thank you

i try hard

each year there is an award given to the biggest douchebottle

its usually nominated by some cry baby on the board. Last yr i was 3rd place

thank you for the nomination
2008 was a great yr. ill prep my speech :lol:

I can rest assured you don't represent AP when you resort to name calling of a longtime customer who has some questions and concerns about new product formulas, because god forbid, if you did, that would make the company look real UNPROFESSIONAL now wouldn't it? :clap2:

 

[Outside Backer]

i dunno who AP is

but you whined and called bullshit when you got your explanation

i call a spade a spade when i see it.

would you rather someone sugar coat everything they say to u to help your fragile ego or would you rather people be real with it

i dont sugar coat ****. i speak my mind. people who grow up coddled thier whole life whine and cry like little girls when they dont get soemthing sugar coated

don came on explain the paltry 10% deduction you cried like a girl and called bullshit

i spoke my mind and didnt sugar coat ****. you got defensive and started name calling


i call a spade a spade you cant handle the internet criticism lol

 

[Ubiyca]

i dunno who AP is

but you whined and called bullshit when you got your explanation

i call a spade a spade when i see it.

would you rather someone sugar coat everything they say to u to help your fragile ego or would you rather people be real with it

i dont sugar coat ****. i speak my mind. people who grow up coddled thier whole life whine and cry like little girls when they dont get soemthing sugar coated

don came on explain the paltry 10% deduction you cried like a girl and called bullshit

i spoke my mind and didnt sugar coat ****. you got defensive and started name calling


i call a spade a spade you cant handle the internet criticism lol

AP are the initials for the company you're a rep for.. you didn't know this?

If you actually read the thread, I said, and I quote "Thank you very very much " when I got my explanation.

Then someone made a post about how it seemed kinda shady how they would decrease the quality ingredients and extracts just so they can "stack" it with other products without being too strong thus making the product theoretically less effective and still keeping the same price, which I thought about and I can see his point and I do agree with it.

I don't see how anyone could say this is a "good" thing for the buyer, unless you buy 2+3 products and stack them.. then, maybe... but it seems the regular buyer gets left out to dry with a slightly lesser product.

Anyway, I still think you're an ass.

However I will test this new RPM formula out RIGHT ****in now.

3caps just because I need to sleep relatively soon.. I just hope this is as effective as the regular formula as I have just paid 60dollars for this bottle, you understand?

:duel:

 

[Outside Backer]

well AP isnt the initials of the company I rep for the company i rep for is A pplied N utriceuticals

AN however you seem like a guy who needs to get the last word in so go ahead

 

[Ubiyca]

ROFL.

AN.. right... ****.

</fail

 

[Bionic]

If the jibba-jabba is done, can I ask what the problem with too much Icariin is?

 

[poison]

There was no change in caffeine.

Many of the changes were just how the information is arranged. The earlier label was done before we hired a law firm who specializes in DSHEA compliance and other legal issues pertaining to our industry. They reviewed the label and helped us develop the later version, which has a considerable number of changes. For example the warning label is far more detailed and specific, the "dietary supplement" indication was added in the bottom center, and the supplement facts had many adjustments made to make it compliant. Simply put, the old label wasn't compliant and the new one is.

The actual formula changes are as follows:

Former icariin was Epimedium Sagittarium (50% icariin)
Current icariin is Epimedium Brevicorium (40% icariin). We observed that the effects of the latter very closely resemble that of the former. The main reason we changed was that there was a small risk that if you stacked RPM and DRIVE together above the maximum recommended dose of each, it was possible to experience mild negative side effects which were consistant with taking excessive doses of icariin. We have not been able to reproduce those effects with the 40% version.

The only other change was the original used Chocamine brand cocoa extract, standardized to 12% theobromine. We experienced a variety of supplier issues in sourcing Chocomine, so we were forced to find a new supply. The result was generic cocoa extract (standardized to 7% theobromine) then added in pure (99%) theobromine to bring it back up to the same level as the original version. So, in essence there was no change there other than how it is displayed on the label.

We have been manufacturing the latter formula for just under a year with no changes since, so those who have been using RPM in that time frame have been getting the current version. In fact, over 80% of all the RPM ever sold is the current version.

Hope that clears everything up!

In case Ubiyca didn't get the memo, there it is in black and white. And for everyone else whinging about 'label change, ooo, my RPM doesn't feel the same now', read the bold, and enjoy your massive placebo effect.

Douchebottles. :lol:

 

[b unit]

old or new rpm, it still kicks ass!

cheers

 

[poison]

agreed! ^

 

[The Tanya]

agreed! ^

:woohoo:

 

[eledwin]

Unprofessional at its best!

 

[Outside Backer]

Unprofessional at its best!

strong bump on 3rd post

eat a **** troll:type:

 

[WhatsaRoid?]

strong bump on 3rd post

eat a **** troll:type:

I love these reps LMFAO

 

[Zero V]

This thread rocks. I love these things.

 

[OzzY SluGGa]

Agreed! I am guilty of the same love of arguement threads!

F**K I need to grow up I know.:laugh:

 

[donorrell]

Unprofessional at its best!

Huh?

What part, our thorough explanation or your vague, inane comment? (Rhetorical question in case you can't figure that out, troll.)

 

[Jayhawkk]

I'll ask what bionic has asked and as well as what was asked by the guy who used the wrong company abbreviation

1. What is the effect from too much icariin

2. Does lowering this effect by 10% much of an effect?


I know it will vary from product to product as well as which particular ingredient we're discussing but i've seen from various companies advertisement on % extracts as a reason why to buy over another company's product. When questions are either shrugged off or not answered directly it can cause confusion. Trying to answer a question when it is in the middle of a insult is hard, I know. However, when consumers/forum members read threads like this or others and try to figure out what they're getting or should be getting it makes it difficult to carry that information to other products...

Example

A customer buys one product that states it's use of 98% extract is better than everyone else's 94% version. They start to believe that % level means the difference. Then they come across another product that lowers it's % but says the product still works just as well. It's easy to send and receive mixed messages when we forget that most consumers are not scientists and do not sort through PUBMED on a daily basis. they go off feedback, message boards and product information.

Just my 2 cents anyways.

 

[eledwin]

Immature at its finest.

 

[donorrell]

1. What is the effect from too much icariin

2. Does lowering this effect by 10% much of an effect?

1. We had a few guys say it made them feel "loopy"; I.e. Slight lightheadedness and seeing spots. All of the occurremnces were immediately after we launched DRVE and people started stacking the two together. I personally experienced it but only after intentionally taking a mega-dose (5 RPM and 10 DRIVE) to see what they were talking about. It wasn't at all uncomfotatbel and didn't inhibit my ability to function, drive a car, etc. but we felt we should take a precautionary step nevertheless.

2. When we substituted the original Epimedium Sagittarium (50% icariin) for the new Epimedium Brevicorium (40% icariin) we found the effects to be virtually identical, but could not duplicate the "loopiness" described above when taking the same 5/10 cap dose - so it satisfied our goal. Of course there may be individuals who think otherwise, and it is not unreasonable to believe that some may react slightly differently than others. We're confident it will exert the same effects as the original formula.

When this first surfaced last year we were accused of watering down our formula, etc. I want to clearly explain that the price variance between the original 50% and the current 40% is negligible, and we've absorbed price increases far larger than that on various ingredients over the years to keep our prices competitive to our customers. It's not a cost thing. It's a safety thing.

Hope that helps,

Don

 

[Aeternitatis]

I just counted, 244pills. LOL I'm not complaining about that.

How long did that take? :laugh:

 

[Jayhawkk]

Helps 100% Don, thanks for the clarification. Hopefully others find that explanation as thorough and helpful as I did.

 

[donorrell]

Helps 100% Don, thanks for the clarification. Hopefully others find that explanation as thorough and helpful as I did.

You're welcome!

 

[OzzY SluGGa]

You could trim this whole thread down to 2 posts...jay's question and Don's answer!

 

[Etomic]

You could trim this whole thread down to 2 posts...jay's question and Don's answer!

Was probably be the best composed Q and A posts I've read in too long.