[BigSmith]

That makes no sense. 6 caps for you is like 4 caps for someone at 170lbs. That does nothing to increase the PCT required. I have NEVER used anything but OTC PCT's with any PH (1-AD, SD, PP, 3-AD, etc, etc). For me, I use them responsibly and have never had an issue. Some people might say you need a SERM. I am a believer that you don't, the formulator has also stated a god OTC PCT regime is fine also.

[WebDesigner]

Originally Posted by glockgod

if you're might be prone to MPB and are taking something like Propecia, how will 3AD affect hairloss/shedding?

bump.

Im also interested on how 3AD effects hair and how harsh is it realistically.

Is it more "you WILL lose some hair but not much" or "You MIGHT lose some but we dont know how much".

[thundergod]

Originally Posted by BigSmith

That makes no sense. 6 caps for you is like 4 caps for someone at 170lbs. That does nothing to increase the PCT required. I have NEVER used anything but OTC PCT's with any PH (1-AD, SD, PP, 3-AD, etc, etc). For me, I use them responsibly and have never had an issue. Some people might say you need a SERM. I am a believer that you don't, the formulator has also stated a god OTC PCT regime is fine also.

I also have never used a prescription SERM. I have used a natty homemade SERM of various ingredients similar to PCS. All of my past PH cycles (super, phera, tren, tst, H-drol, M-dien, and MDHT) I followed up with OTC PCT's only. No gyno, no problems. I use AI's like formestane and trione also. THE THUNDERGOD

[haroldjg]

If your really worried about over the counter, just get some dermacrine. I havent used it yet, but I have studied the ingredients list and it really does seem like the flagship of OTC pct's. I personally like to keep things cheap, so I am going to make my own TD though. A very simple one, form and resveratrol, or maybe a different anti-e... I havent decided yet. Anyways, the new OTC stuff should suffice for something like this. As well, for those worried about cost, why not just double dose for an amazing two weeker. I know that the two week on 4 week off protocol hasnt been that popular lately, but I think that this product would be perfect for such protocol.... double dosed that is.

[MOHAWKA]

what about restore as a pct: 6-bromo (e-control), prolactin inhibition, cortisol inhibition, increased free test, and increased delivery.

sounds like its covered many of the bases

[glockgod]

Originally Posted by WebDesigner

bump.

Im also interested on how 3AD effects hair and how harsh is it realistically.

Is it more "you WILL lose some hair but not much" or "You MIGHT lose some but we dont know how much".

It appears that no one (including product rep) wants to answer, so i did some digging.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

According to the product label:

Possible androgenic side effects including acne, hair loss, increased levels of estrogen and testicular atrophy may occur.

Also after some quick googling, I'm still sort of confused. If a drug like propecia blocks the conversion of the 5a androstan into DHT, would this mean that products like 3AD would be ineffective?

5α-androstan, a key ingredient, Inhibition of 5α reductase activity is known to improve MPHL

In alopecia (androgenic hairloss), pattern-baldness is one of the effects of androgenic receptor activation. Reducing the levels of dihydrotestosterone thus reduces alopecia.

5α-reductase inhibitors (or 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors)(drugs like Propecia) are a group of drugs with antiandrogenic activity, used in the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia and androgenic (or androgenetic) alopecia. These drugs decrease the levels of available 5α-reductase prior to testosterone binding with the enzyme, thus reducing levels of dihydrotestosterone that derives from such a bond.

The enzyme 5α-reductase is involved in the conversion of testosterone to the active form dihydrotestosterone by reducing the Δ4,5 double-bond. In benign prostatic hyperplasia, dihydrotestosterone acts as a potent cellular androgen and promotes prostate growth - inhibiting the enzyme reduces the excessive prostate growth. In alopecia, pattern-baldness is one of the effects of androgenic receptor activation. Reducing the levels of dihydrotestosterone thus reduces alopecia.

While the mechanism by which DHT is involved in hair loss is not confirmed, many dermatologists and research scientists specializing in hair loss believe DHT molecules may diffuse into the interior of hair follicle cells (the cytoplasm or cytosol) and bind with androgen receptors. This complex, both the receptor and the DHT molecule, then enters the nucleus of the cell. In the nucleus of the hair follicle cell this complex could then alter the rate of protein synthesis in men who are genetically predisposed to baldness.

However, DHT also plays an important role in the functioning of the central nervous system (the brain), the testicles and prostate, and almost everything but muscle tissue. In muscle tissue testosterone is the dominant hormone, which is why some bodybuilders inject testosterone derivatives to aid in muscular development.

* Propecia (and other products containing finasteride) causes a rise in testosterone levels, because testosterone that would normally be converted into DHT remains testosterone. Continual high levels of testosterone in the body could possibly have negative side effects.

* Artificially low levels of DHT in the body could cause some unwanted conditions. DHT is an antagonist of estrogen. Men’s bodies also produce the female hormone estrogen in the adrenal glands, although this is just one-tenth of the estrogen that premenopausal women produce in their ovaries. By reducing DHT with drugs, a man’s protection from the effects of estrogen may also be reduced. This could result in gynecomastia.

* Even though both finasteride and dutasteride were developed to combat benign prostatic hyperplasia by reducing DHT in prostate tissue, some scientists question the wisdom of using these 5-alpha reductase inhibitors in younger men who have no problem with their prostates. A research chemist, Patrick Arnold, says “Evidence is mounting that the existence of a high estrogen/androgen ratio – a condition common in older men – is highly correlated with the development of benign prostatic hyperplasia.”[citation needed] However, in apparent contradiction, individuals with 5-alpha-reductase deficiency (and thus a similar hormonal profile to users of DHT inhibitors) do not experience BPH.

[haroldjg]

That all has to do with where the majority of 5a reductase is located. The majority is located in specific tissues, not the blood. The majority is found in the skin and the prostate, so there is very little dht circulating to react with androgen receptors in muscles. The hormone in 3ad is 5a reduced dhea, therefore it does not need to be 5a reduced because it already is. As well, dht is usually deactived very quickely in muscles from (i believe??, I am typing this all of the top of my head) the the high concentrations of 3a and 3b dehydrogenase enzymes. These specific enzymes are what indeed activates this hormone to bio-active. So you can see how 5a-dhea is indeed a very effective product and how these anti-dht products are completely reduntant with 5a-dhea. They will not prevent the conversion of this hormone to dht because 5a-dhea is not need to be 5a reduced.

[Designer Supps]

Propecia or Dutasteride will have no effect with 3AD. The compounds used in 3ADs formula are already 5a reduced. Any androgen can effect hairloss. I have MPB and now use minox twice a day. When I alpha tested the formula i wasnt using any minox and I didnt notice any increased shedding. Only one out of the 5 testers noticed any hairloss.

As far as PCT, when I alpha tested this I used doses that no one will use. I always take my dosing to certain levels to look for side effects etc. I used 6bromo (aPCT) and Activate Xtreme only for my entire PCT.

Like Big Smith I havent used anything but OTC Supps for PCT over the course of the last 5 years. As long as you increase test production, increase the usable amount of that test, control estrogen and cortisol then you are covered.

[Whacked]

3-ad for lean hard waterless gains or just mass?

[glockgod]

I'm not sure about the watergains, but I got a good 5 lbs and i'm week 4 into the cycle.

My bench press has gone up (almost 20 lbs) and I'm now stronger then I've ever been in that regard.

My diet lately has been good, but being a skeptic going in I can tell you that there is something in it that works.

Also taking Propecia, I have not noticed any shedding or loss and I'm w/o a doubt MPB.

My cycle ends Aug 7th, and Oct 1 i'm doing another one (this time 4-6-6-6-6-4)

Also once the cycle ends I'm going to get a test check up to see if the test levels are above normal or not, and I'm going to post results here, along w/ liver enzyme levels.

[BigBoy12]

I had some awesome gains on 3-AD

[BigBoy12]

Originally Posted by Designer Supps

Like Big Smith I havent used anything but OTC Supps for PCT over the course of the last 5 years. As long as you increase test production, increase the usable amount of that test, control estrogen and cortisol then you are covered.

Same here!

[Whacked]

Thanks for the 2 responses. Any ana-Xtrme reps there care to comment if this is a totally dry/totally wet or an in-between product?? Thanks

[timdull2]

I would have to say that it's quite a dry compound. I think that some may have increased a slight bit of water retention at the beginning, but it soon went away. I used it on a recomp and had some great effects without getting bloaty or anything at all. Definition really came out on me - and with my build, definition is definitely a good thing!

[Iron Lungz]

Any reports of Gyno, including flare-ups?