Mass FX™ Teaser

BigSmith · 11-10-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b_delgros

Maybe I missed something, but what is (3b,5a,6a,25R)-Spirostan-3,6-diol method of action, is it an AI, Raises Free T, what exactly does it do.

It is not an AI. It increases test levels big time. So we create lots of test then free it up with the 3,4-DVTHF. The end result is a beautiful thing

Quote:

Originally Posted by b_delgros

Once it is released will there be any more information given on this ingredient?

Yes

Maverick64 · 11-10-2006, 04:54 PM

6OXO? The reason I ask is because I cannnot tolerate Rebound XT. Everytime I try the NHA stack I develop BAD depression a few days in. I have found that I can take ActiVate by itself no problem but the Rebound XT must be somehow eliminating too much Estogen causing the depression. 6OXO doesn't give me a problem either. Was also considering stacking this with JW or 6OXO and Yellow Gold..that might be kick ass!

BigSmith · 11-10-2006, 06:46 PM

6-OXO or JW would be just fine and work very well.

macedaddy · 11-10-2006, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSmith

Why the emphasis on stacking?

That is because it should be coupled with a good AI. (3b,5a,6a,25R)-Spirostan-3,6-diol is going to create a lot of T and with the DVTHF freeing it up, the odds of estrogen conversion increase. That can cause shutdown and estro related sides, so the AI is just insurance, not everyone needs it probably but it's a good idea to include and help elevate test even higher anyway (or at least negate shutdown). That is why the logs were Mass FX + Hyperdrol (6-Br)

I am sorry that Hyperdrol did not work well for you. Not ever product works for everyone. We have had an overwhelmingly positive response on Hyperdrol though. Every time a new batch is made it is sold out in less than a week. Hopefully you will give Mass FX a shot coupled with your AI of choice. Since our inception we have tried to only release products that work. I always hate to hear when one does not work for someone.

If you have any doubts you can take a look at over 30 unbiased logs here:

Anabolic Xtreme Forum -> AX Hyperdrol + Mass FX Logs

^^^^^^^

Proteinpowda · 11-11-2006, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somewhatgifted

cant wait for the beta results, this is an exciting era for supplements.

The "exciting" area of supplements ended Jan of 2005 when prohormones were banned IMO.
Though since then there has been some innovation.
I tried pheraplex..not too sure on my opinion of it. Overall I felt harder and definetly looked better but I never felt so lightheaded during my workouts. I'm not neccessarily attributing it to the PP though b/c there were very many other unisolated variables involved. And I also gotta hand it to AX: Stimulant-X is amazing. I've tried a wide array of energy pills before and given them all to others; Spike, ECA, AMP, etc. Spike worked for all of 2 days, ECA def. works but just makes me too nutty, AMP was great the first time I worked out on it and is still great but elevates my blood pressure a bit too much (about 20mm HG in terms of systolic)...but SX is so clean. Almost anyone I've given some to try to has come back asking for more. It's probably the best study aid on the market too. Kudos to you on that.

As for this new product hell I'm interested in how you are getting the body to produce more test? It almost sounds like you've created agonists to GNRH or LH and then somehow reduced SHBG levels (once again I'm guessing you're freeing up the bound testosterone). This is purely speculation though....

As far as why people are running AI's anyone that's been on this forum for awhile should understand that! Anytime you increase test you increase the amount that can be aromatized; it's pretty much Lechateliers principle; increase the concentration of the reactants (testosterone) and the equilibrium shifts to the formation of product.

Oh quick trivia: Where's a major storage site for aromatase?

Answer : Fat cells.

macedaddy · 11-11-2006, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick64

6OXO? The reason I ask is because I cannnot tolerate Rebound XT. Everytime I try the NHA stack I develop BAD depression a few days in. I have found that I can take ActiVate by itself no problem but the Rebound XT must be somehow eliminating too much Estogen causing the depression. 6OXO doesn't give me a problem either. Was also considering stacking this with JW or 6OXO and Yellow Gold..that might be kick ass!

Have you tried Hyperdrol?

macedaddy · 11-11-2006, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteinpowda

The "exciting" area of supplements ended Jan of 2005 when prohormones were banned IMO.
Though since then there has been some innovation.
I tried pheraplex..not too sure on my opinion of it. Overall I felt harder and definetly looked better but I never felt so lightheaded during my workouts. I'm not neccessarily attributing it to the PP though b/c there were very many other unisolated variables involved. And I also gotta hand it to AX: Stimulant-X is amazing. I've tried a wide array of energy pills before and given them all to others; Spike, ECA, AMP, etc. Spike worked for all of 2 days, ECA def. works but just makes me too nutty, AMP was great the first time I worked out on it and is still great but elevates my blood pressure a bit too much (about 20mm HG in terms of systolic)...but SX is so clean. Almost anyone I've given some to try to has come back asking for more. It's probably the best study aid on the market too. Kudos to you on that.

As for this new product hell I'm interested in how you are getting the body to produce more test? It almost sounds like you've created agonists to GNRH or LH and then somehow reduced SHBG levels (once again I'm guessing you're freeing up the bound testosterone). This is purely speculation though....

As far as why people are running AI's anyone that's been on this forum for awhile should understand that! Anytime you increase test you increase the amount that can be aromatized; it's pretty much Lechateliers principle; increase the concentration of the reactants (testosterone) and the equilibrium shifts to the formation of product.

Oh quick trivia: Where's a major storage site for aromatase?

Answer : Fat cells.

Thanks for the kind words!!!

Stim X IS an excellent product. No other stimulant that i have been on is gives as much clean energy and focus as stim x. The biggest benefits is you don't come off it hard either!

Maverick64 · 11-12-2006, 09:19 AM

I would like to try the HD Mass FX stack, but it pisses me off that I have half a bottle of unused ReboundXT that I can't take. I KNOW the 6OXO doesn't hit me with depression like Rebound XT. But I don't want to but a bottle of HD just to find out it does the same thing. If AX wanted to send me about 3 days worth of HD to try , and I didn't have any issues with it, then I would be more than happy to give the HD/Mass FX cycle a shot.

dmilhouse · 11-13-2006, 01:26 PM

So what exactly is 25-R I'm confused. Is it steriodal? Will it show up on a drug test (NCAA)? Is it a banned substance? It sounds interesting but what are the metabolites?

-MH

BigSmith · 11-13-2006, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmilhouse

So what exactly is 25-R I'm confused. Is it steriodal? Will it show up on a drug test (NCAA)? Is it a banned substance? It sounds interesting but what are the metabolites?

-MH

It is natural but NCAA is very picky. You would need to get approval first. More info will be released on the compound when the release nears. If the NCAA did allow it, this would be the first product they have allowed with PH type gains.

**yeahright** · 11-13-2006, 01:56 PM

Tease tease tease.

dmilhouse · 11-13-2006, 01:56 PM

Is it steriodal?

BigSmith · 11-13-2006, 02:19 PM

25R-Diol is natural derivative of a class of compounds called sapogenins. It has potent anabolic properties and no (pro-hormone type) harsh side effects. Although we have gone the SYNTHETIC route to this compound it is related to nature. The route we have taken to create this compound is it's key to success. That is about all I can answer until it's release.

macedaddy · 11-13-2006, 02:40 PM

^^^You had me at anabolic

Proteinpowda · 11-13-2006, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSmith

25R-Diol is natural derivative of a class of compounds called sapogenins. It has potent anabolic properties and no negative side effects. Although we have gone the SYNTHETIC route to this compound it is related to nature. The route we have taken to create this compound is it's key to success. That is about all I can answer until it's release.

No negative side effects? That makes me think you haven't done enough research on it. Also what is good for one person is bad for another. Like really, I like your company and the products you put out but now you sound gimicky.

macedaddy · 11-13-2006, 02:59 PM

he means no negative side effects similar to pro hormones.
liver damage, raised blood pressure or cholesterol, etc....

dmilhouse · 11-13-2006, 03:01 PM

It sounds like the same thing in Ebol:

-KETO diosgenin ((25 R)-5alpha-spirostan-2alpha, 3beta, 5alpha-triol-6-OH):
6-KETO diosgenin is a natural derivative of a class of compounds called sapogenins. Similar to ecdysterone, sapogenins are plant sterols (plant hormones) which among exhibiting many other positive health benefits, show potent anabolic properties and have no negative side effects. 6-KETO diosgenin has been shown in rats to (67) have very prominent anabolic effects with no change in testicular or prostate weight and no changes in genitalia (and no androgenic effects). The increased anabolism and growth in subjects receiving 6-keto diosgenin was almost 2 times as high as the control group, yielding astounding anabolic potential. This compound is custom made and world exclusive to ThermoLife International, and due to this fact the amount of information on it is limited. The findings in the above study, combined with the overwhelming positive anecdotal feedback however are extremely promising. Its addition to E-BOL plays a key role in its amazing synergistic effects and takes its anabolic growth potentials to the next level.

Proteinpowda · 11-13-2006, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macedaddy

he means no negative side effects similar to pro hormones.
liver damage, raised blood pressure or cholesterol, etc....

Then the compound produces no effect on testosterone. An increase in testosterone comes with these effects you just spoke of (except for liver damage if the compound is non-hepatoxic...)

If increasing testosterone had no effects at all on your system then they would not be doing research on it as we speak. For example there's a study being conducted in AZ now (double-blind placebo controlled) investing the effects of HRT in med with low to mid testosterone levels and its effect on artherosclerosis (sp?). As my physician put it we just don't know what the effects of having a higher LDL level, increased TGL's for an acute period of time in otherwise healthy individiauls down the line. And yes significantly increasing test (as stated before) works via a similar mechanism to blood doping. Instead of directly injecting Red Blood cells or Erytropoietin (sp) test raises EPO levels.

So overall I'm contending that his statement that it's side effect free is a huge blanket statement and one that without having done randomized double-blind placebo controlled studies one that cannot be taken without skepticism. These compounds, supplements, whatever you want to call them (and intentionally delude yourself by believing they are something better and safer than compounds in the pharmacy) are pharmaceuticals and should be treated and evaluated as such.
Granted I take them in lieu of other illegals but it's a trade-off. You can take compounds with decades of research behind them, where methods of action have been study, studies have been done on diverse populations, and their quality is under regulatory controls (not always true on the black market), or you can take a supplement whose manufacturer claims it to be side-effect free.

BigSmith · 11-13-2006, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmilhouse

It sounds like the same thing in Ebol:

They are very different. The structures them self are very different and without knowing their synthesis they cannot be compared.

This is a teaser thread not the "answer all thread". We will be putting out more info upon the product release. I know for a fact that our synthesis is unique to the industry. That combined with over 100 ultra positive test cases = one hell of a good product.

BigSmith · 11-13-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteinpowda

Then the compound.........

Yes you are correct. Even Coca Classic has negative effects in some way. I edited the post. What was meant is that Mass FX although it seriously raises then frees up Testosterone is does not have the harsh side effects of attributed to most pro-hormones. IMO I feel this is the first non-hormonal product that delivers mild pro-hormone type results (Strength and Lean mass) to everyone that takes it without the harsh pro-hormone side effects.

Proteinpowda · 11-13-2006, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSmith

Yes you are correct. Even Coca Classic has negative effects in some way. I edited the post. What was meant is that Mass FX although it seriously raises then frees up Testosterone is does not have the harsh side effects of attributed to most pro-hormones. IMO I feel this is the first non-hormonal product that delivers mild pro-hormone type results (Strength and Lean mass) to everyone that takes it without the harsh pro-hormone side effects.

Of course; anything has a side effect in some form. Even eating too much fruit can be bad for your lipid profile b/c fructose is preferably metabolized to TGL's in the liver for example.

Also, I might like your companies products and that your company is essentially standing up to the EDIT: Old issue
So..

Proteinpowda · 11-13-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSmith

Superdrol was licensed from Designer Supplements the inventor, first to market company, and intellectual property holder.. That license has now expired. All Write-Up material was supplied by Designer Supplements as well. If you have a problem with the material you will need to take it up with them. The Mass FX teaser thread is not the place for it.

I'm not expressing any concern for that product. I'm also not agreeing that you're free from any liability because you did not manufacture the product or write the ad.
Here's what I'm saying in a nutshell:
1) I think AX has a great reputation when it comes to product effect; but not neccessarily in terms of product safety. You are honest about the effects of your products in forums but not everyone visits forums. Also the majority of people here do not have degrees in exercise physiology or a branch of biochemistry or in some health-related field. A lot of them just have bro knowledge and the tidbits they pick up here.
2) Your statement that you had 100 positive results is not a good one.
A) You had no control group or did you send out placebos?
B) Probably b/c of cost and difficulty you did not have your testers have blood work done before, during, and after testing.
C) All statemets based on the products test claims are qualitative. Did you have body compositions taken, 1RM tests, muscle biopsies, etc? Are the people that relayed their results qualifed to do these tests on our own. And for reference the Jackson-Poullack equations just aren't that accurate within our subgroup (bodybuilding) when it comes to testing skinfolds. It has nothing on DEXA or underwater weighing but it's easy and is a simple way to measure if one is gaining or losing fat, etc.
D) This would not be considered a study worthy of publishing
3) I am not attacking you and I'm not making blatant lies or accusations, these are all true statements, to the best of my knowledge.
4) I think AX is one of the better companies on the market.
5) Out of curiosity what are the credentials for the board reps of your company? Phd? Batchelors in exercise physiology or biochem? Research experience in this field?

BigSmith · 11-13-2006, 04:39 PM

When we send out tester samples we were not trying to host the next major study. We handed out samples bottles (100) and asked for anecdotal feedback. That feedback was nearly 100% positive with some users reporting better gains then when on pro-hormones like Ergomax. No control groups or placebo's just good old comparison feedback. Now I understand that is not a true test case scenario. We do have a full understanding of the compound that Dr.D has created. The "testing" is more or less for pre-release feedback for the consumer.

I appreciate the compliments and accept the criticism. When Mass FX is released you will see much more information being published. Until then it's hush hush.

As for the board reps.........A general love for the industry/sport, knowledgeable, have extra time to spare, and finally generally just a good person. Our reps are a "semi-paid" position and their job is to spread knowledge, help others, and provide valuable feedback to AX.

I have to run.

Kevin

Proteinpowda · 11-13-2006, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSmith

When we send out tester samples we were not trying to host the next major study. We handed out samples bottles (100) and asked for anecdotal feedback. That feedback was nearly 100% positive with some users reporting better gains then when on pro-hormones like Ergomax. No control groups or placebo's just good old comparison feedback. Now I understand that is not a true test case scenario. We do have a full understanding of the compound that Dr.D has created. The "testing" is more or less for pre-release feedback for the consumer.

I appreciate the compliments and accept the criticism. When Mass FX is released you will see much more information being published. Until then it's hush hush.

As for the board reps.........A general love for the industry/sport, knowledgeable, have extra time to spare, and finally generally just a good person. Our reps are a "semi-paid" position and their job is to spread knowledge, help others, and provide valuable feedback to AX.

I have to run.

Kevin

Thanks for the reply. The old forum I used to post at would've blocked my comments (some of you know which one or can guess it). Gotta love AM.

**somewhatgifted** · 11-14-2006, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteinpowda

Then the compound produces no effect on testosterone. An increase in testosterone comes with these effects you just spoke of (except for liver damage if the compound is non-hepatoxic...)

If increasing testosterone had no effects at all on your system then they would not be doing research on it as we speak. For example there's a study being conducted in AZ now (double-blind placebo controlled) investing the effects of HRT in med with low to mid testosterone levels and its effect on artherosclerosis (sp?). As my physician put it we just don't know what the effects of having a higher LDL level, increased TGL's for an acute period of time in otherwise healthy individiauls down the line. And yes significantly increasing test (as stated before) works via a similar mechanism to blood doping. Instead of directly injecting Red Blood cells or Erytropoietin (sp) test raises EPO levels.

So overall I'm contending that his statement that it's side effect free is a huge blanket statement and one that without having done randomized double-blind placebo controlled studies one that cannot be taken without skepticism. These compounds, supplements, whatever you want to call them (and intentionally delude yourself by believing they are something better and safer than compounds in the pharmacy) are pharmaceuticals and should be treated and evaluated as such.
Granted I take them in lieu of other illegals but it's a trade-off. You can take compounds with decades of research behind them, where methods of action have been study, studies have been done on diverse populations, and their quality is under regulatory controls (not always true on the black market), or you can take a supplement whose manufacturer claims it to be side-effect free.

Short answer, BIG plus..... ity bity negative.

macedaddy · 11-14-2006, 11:29 AM

^^^^

NDjets78 · 11-15-2006, 11:44 AM

Another dosing question.

Im gonna stack Mass FX and HD. The label for HD says 3 caps/day with meals. But ive read alot of places that ppl take 4 Mass FX and 4 HD per day as their stack.

Should i take 3 or 4 HD per day???

macedaddy · 11-15-2006, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDjets78

Another dosing question.

Im gonna stack Mass FX and HD. The label for HD says 3 caps/day with meals. But ive read alot of places that ppl take 4 Mass FX and 4 HD per day as their stack.

Should i take 3 or 4 HD per day???

personal preference and budgetary.....

Usually people well over 220 pounds find it more effective....

I personally, am running 4 per day, but that is me. I would start with 3 for atleast a week and test your tolerance. Combined with FX, you may find 3 is quite enough!

Sonicology · 11-20-2006, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSmith

It is not an AI. It increases test levels big time. So we create lots of test then free it up with the 3,4-DVTHF. The end result is a beautiful thing

Can this be used in PCT then? Sounds like it would be great after a cycle to get T levels back to where they should be

macedaddy · 11-20-2006, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonicology

Can this be used in post cycle therapy then? Sounds like it would be great after a cycle to get T levels back to where they should be

Yes, it could. You would still want an AI to team with it though.

IT DEFINITELY BOOSTS and FREES your TEST!!!!