whatd you sell me?

[pump3d]

im surprised this hasnt been posted here...

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=462408

 

[jim623]

Seems no one can just accept the fact that AX has blended a great product that is totally legal and patent pending. Do you honestly believe AX would try to patent something that would be considered illegal. SX has been tested and tested and tested and on and on and on... it's fine. If it doesn't work for you or you happen to be one of the few who experience bad side effects, I appologize to you on their behalf.

 

[Iron Lungz]

Interesting.

 

[pump3d]

Seems no one can just accept the fact that AX has blended a great product that is totally legal and patent pending. Do you honestly believe AX would try to patent something that would be considered illegal. SX has been tested and tested and tested and on and on and on... it's fine. If it doesn't work for you or you happen to be one of the few who experience bad side effects, I appologize to you on their behalf.

i didnt say any of that, i was just posting it because it seemed pretty interesting and pertinent.

 

[T-AD]

What is "interesting and pertinent" here is how drama spills over from one volatile board onto this peaceful community.

If you are familiar with that link, then you are familiar the thread in question. Link back to that thread for my response.

To summarize here, the ingredients on the label are exactly what is in there - nothing more, nothing less. What most fail to realize is that there are some smaller ingredients that contribute to the overall package which are novel and misunderstood. Instead of speculating and letting everyone run rampant over symantics, the verbage has been changed and will reflect a more precise listing in the near future as the patent application is published. We're taking it out of the "prop blend" category and putting it out there for all to see - just not before the legal protection against theft.

Any questions, comments or concerns can be directed to me via PM or email. No further information is available or will be stated at this time unless done so by myself, bigsmith or biceps.

Thanks! :cheers:

 

[DAdams91982]

What is "interesting and pertinent" here is how drama spills over from one volatile board onto this peaceful community.

If you are familiar with that link, then you are familiar the thread in question. Link back to that thread for my response.

To summarize here, the ingredients on the label are exactly what is in there - nothing more, nothing less. What most fail to realize is that there are some smaller ingredients that contribute to the overall package which are novel and misunderstood. Instead of speculating and letting everyone run rampant over symantics, the verbage has been changed and will reflect a more precise listing in the near future as the patent application is published. We're taking it out of the "prop blend" category and putting it out there for all to see - just not before the legal protection against theft.

Any questions, comments or concerns can be directed to me via PM or email. No further information is available or will be stated at this time unless done so by myself, bigsmith or biceps.

Thanks! :cheers:

Please provide the GC/MS data that you have! Would be a great help to get the whole thing resolved.

 

[jim623]

i didnt say any of that, i was just posting it because it seemed pretty interesting and pertinent.

Sorry bro, you just happened to be the one that posted the link. I didn't necessarily am this directly at you as there has been MANY post of accusation.

Peace be with you.

 

[T-AD]

As soon as we get word that the patent is secured, all will be released. Until then, survival tactics - don't spill the baked bean recipe. You're just going to have to be patient.

/story

 

[DAdams91982]

As soon as we get word that the patent is secured, all will be released. Until then, survival tactics - don't spill the baked bean recipe. You're just going to have to be patient.

/story

Understandable... though I wish companies would be more upfront, so people could research what they are taking. Using the term analoges is quite the way to skirt an issue. it's like saying an analog of the coca plant, and passing it off as safe.. when in reality you are talking about cocaine.

 

[pump3d]

im surprised this hasnt been posted here...

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=462408

If you are familiar with that link, then you are familiar the thread in question. Link back to that thread for my response.
Thanks! :cheers:

which post was yours?

i didnt see any...

i definitely understand trying to protect something that has great feedback, though, i just saw this discussion in two places and hadnt seen any AX feedback

 

[Steveoph]

An interesting discussion at the very least. Naming compounds has always been a tricky business. Godspeed on the patent :thumbsup:

 

[pump3d]

We have chimed in and their speculation is wrong. Not much else we can say than that info/speculation is not correct.

sorry i was looking at that one link i posted, i found the other one you (i think) posted in.

It seems like naming has been causing quite a bit of confusion, hopefully you guys can clear up whatever, if any, confusion there is when the time comes.

 

[ShakesAllDay]

Understandable... though I wish companies would be more upfront, so people could research what they are taking. Using the term analoges is quite the way to skirt an issue. it's like saying an analog of the coca plant, and passing it off as safe.. when in reality you are talking about cocaine.

x2

Maybe better from a business perspective, but definitely not conscientious of people consuming the product.

From what I gather, there was something in SX that was not listed on the label. If this is true... that's bad. Very bad.

 

[T-AD]

...It seems like naming has been causing quite a bit of confusion, hopefully you guys can clear up whatever, if any, confusion there is when the time comes.

True. It's a fine line to walk. The ingredients, as listed and as listed on the newest labeling which will more accurately reflect the contents, are the same except that the newest provides more concise description (name) of the ingredients. It isn't uncommon to do this sort of thing, but at least we aren't shady in naming it "amino-bol complex" or something generic like that. rivateeye:

x2

Maybe better from a business perspective, but definitely not conscientious of people consuming the product.

From what I gather, there was something in SX that was not listed on the label. If this is true... that's bad. Very bad.

AX doesn't do bad, or very bad. We do good and very good. Naming things, especially when they are misunderstood and drama ensues based on incorrect speculation, is a very touchy subject no matter who you are. In the end, once we are protected with that patent, things will be made completely crystal.

:bling:

 

[DAdams91982]

AX doesn't do bad, or very bad. We do good and very good. Naming things, especially when they are misunderstood and drama ensues based on incorrect speculation, is a very touchy subject no matter who you are. In the end, once we are protected with that patent, things will be made completely crystal.

:bling:

Until then... take my word!

How is not spelling out exactly what is in the bottle even legal? I don't get that. I was always curious how people even wondered why the FDA has it out for the supplement industry... because the industry does it to itself. There is no consumer protection from dangerous products.. hell you don't even have to test if you got what you ordered from China before dishing out to the masses.

 

[Iron Lungz]

Sadly, this is true. I do think the industry shoots itself in the foot.
I am interested in the end result, however.

Until then... take my word!

How is not spelling out exactly what is in the bottle even legal? I don't get that. I was always curious how people even wondered why the FDA has it out for the supplement industry... because the industry does it to itself. There is no consumer protection from dangerous products.. hell you don't even have to test if you got what you ordered from China before dishing out to the masses.

 

[Inarius]

interesting...

 

[plenny]

this is how superdrol got pulled

 

[Biceps]

x2

Maybe better from a business perspective, but definitely not conscientious of people consuming the product.

From what I gather, there was something in SX that was not listed on the label. If this is true... that's bad. Very bad.

It is really a double edged sword, and is driven by two reasons.

1. Consumer demand. Customers are always looking for the newest, latest and greatest, innovative new products to help them achieve their goals. Customers don't want "me too" formulas that just rearrange a blend of already used ingredients. Just look at the activity the company promotion sections get. New products sell more volume while older products, despite being effective, are forgotten. So because consumers want new ingredients that perform better, they are produced.

2. Competition. In any industry, especially the sports nutrition industry, new and innovative ingredients and formulas are ripped off and cloned the second they come out. In fact, some products are cloned before the "supposed original" is even released. And sometimes, the products are cloned and offered to the consumer in insanely high dosages, or combined with ingredients that they shouldn't be combined with. In order for companies to stay competitive and protect their formulas, they have to protect their innovation, as is most commonly seen with the use of prop blends.

With our proline analog, we were leveraging a small, but new trade secret at the time to protect the Slim Xtreme formula from being ripped off the second it came out. We have had competitors trying to copy the formula from day 1, and I speculate that in the next 4-6 months, a clone of SX will be available. I can only hope that competitors do not turn their clones into products that include ingredients that really shouldn't be in there. But it will happen, because competitors are always trying to 1-up the competition.

Now that our patent app is about to go live and become public information, and because this ingredient is brand new, we hired one of the best chemists to write an accurate name for the new compound and we are now listing it as such. Because we are the first to have it, we get to set the name. But it has always been on the label and either proline analog or proline listed as being specifically enhanced is accurate.

I understand your point, and the last thing I want to do is come across as being defensive. That's not my intention. I'm just trying to shed some light on how the consumer and industry feed into each other.

 

[pump3d]

we hired one of the best chemists to write an accurate name for the new compound and we are now listing it as such.

are you going to change it from phenyl-pyrrolidinyltoluene? the ambiguity in that name seems to be causing the trouble

 

[gymdevil25]

Well if the performed GC/MS lab analysis is correct from the blueright forum then the ingredient deems to be pretty interesting and scary at best...

Desoxypipradrol, also known as 2-diphenylmethylpiperidine (2-DPMP), is psychoactive drug and research chemical of the piperidine chemical class which acts as a long-lasting stimulant via functioning as a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (NDRI).[1]

Desoxypipradrol is closely related on a structural level to the compounds methylphenidate (Ritalin, Focalin, Concerta) and pipradrol (Meretran), all three of which share a similar pharmacological action.[2] Of these three piperidines, desoxypipradrol has the longest elimination half-life, as it is a highly lipophilic molecule lacking polar functional groups that are typically targeted by metabolic enzymes. Methylphenidate, on the other hand, is a short-acting compound, as it possesses a methyl-ester moiety that is easily cleaved, forming a highly polar acid group, while pipradrol is intermediate in duration, possessing a hydroxyl group which can be conjugated (e.g. with glucuronide) to increase its hydrophilicity and facilitate excretion, but no easily metabolized groups.

Desoxypipradrol was developed by the pharmaceutical company CIBA (now called Novartis) in the 1950s,[3] and researched for applications such as the treatment of narcolepsy and ADHD, however it was dropped from development after the related drug methylphenidate was developed by the same company. Methylphenidate was felt to be the superior drug for treating ADHD due to its shorter duration of action and more predictable pharmacokinetics, and while desoxypipradrol was researched for other applications such as to facilitate rapid recovery from anaesthesia [4] its development was not continued. The hydroxylated derivative pipradrol was, however, introduced as a clinical drug indicated for depression, narcolepsy and cognitive enhancement in organic dementia.

In more recent times there has been some interest in the use of desoxypipradrol as a legal recreational drug. Its activity profile as a dopamine reuptake-inhibiting stimulant means that it could potentially be used as an alternative to illegal drugs such as cocaine and methylphenidate; however the slow onset of effects, and very long duration of action (as long as 24 hours, especially if more than one dose is taken) makes it unlikely to be successful for this application, as prominent side effects such as insomnia and anorexia are likely to outweigh any positive effects.

Desoxypipradrol might also prove quite useful for its original application of treating attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), considering that the short half-life of common treatments such as methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine has led to the development of long-acting, delayed release formulations of these drugs. Certain individuals with ADHD prefer long-acting stimulant compounds, as they often require only one daily dose, making it more difficult to forget to take the medication.

Desoxypipradrol is not specifically listed as a controlled drug in any country at the present time, but its structural similarity to the drug pipradrol makes it possible that it would be considered a controlled substance analogue in several countries such as Australia and New Zealand.

Desoxypipradrol has shown some promise in privately funded studies at reducing or eliminating instances of sleep paralysis.

 

[DAdams91982]

Makes you want to just gobble up pills that you dont know what in them huh?

Well if the performed GC/MS lab analysis is correct from the blueright forum then the ingredient deems to be pretty interesting and scary at best...

Desoxypipradrol, also known as 2-diphenylmethylpiperidine (2-DPMP), is psychoactive drug and research chemical of the piperidine chemical class which acts as a long-lasting stimulant via functioning as a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (NDRI).[1]

Desoxypipradrol is closely related on a structural level to the compounds methylphenidate (Ritalin, Focalin, Concerta) and pipradrol (Meretran), all three of which share a similar pharmacological action.[2] Of these three piperidines, desoxypipradrol has the longest elimination half-life, as it is a highly lipophilic molecule lacking polar functional groups that are typically targeted by metabolic enzymes. Methylphenidate, on the other hand, is a short-acting compound, as it possesses a methyl-ester moiety that is easily cleaved, forming a highly polar acid group, while pipradrol is intermediate in duration, possessing a hydroxyl group which can be conjugated (e.g. with glucuronide) to increase its hydrophilicity and facilitate excretion, but no easily metabolized groups.

Desoxypipradrol was developed by the pharmaceutical company CIBA (now called Novartis) in the 1950s,[3] and researched for applications such as the treatment of narcolepsy and ADHD, however it was dropped from development after the related drug methylphenidate was developed by the same company. Methylphenidate was felt to be the superior drug for treating ADHD due to its shorter duration of action and more predictable pharmacokinetics, and while desoxypipradrol was researched for other applications such as to facilitate rapid recovery from anaesthesia [4] its development was not continued. The hydroxylated derivative pipradrol was, however, introduced as a clinical drug indicated for depression, narcolepsy and cognitive enhancement in organic dementia.

In more recent times there has been some interest in the use of desoxypipradrol as a legal recreational drug. Its activity profile as a dopamine reuptake-inhibiting stimulant means that it could potentially be used as an alternative to illegal drugs such as cocaine and methylphenidate; however the slow onset of effects, and very long duration of action (as long as 24 hours, especially if more than one dose is taken) makes it unlikely to be successful for this application, as prominent side effects such as insomnia and anorexia are likely to outweigh any positive effects.

Desoxypipradrol might also prove quite useful for its original application of treating attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), considering that the short half-life of common treatments such as methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine has led to the development of long-acting, delayed release formulations of these drugs. Certain individuals with ADHD prefer long-acting stimulant compounds, as they often require only one daily dose, making it more difficult to forget to take the medication.

Desoxypipradrol is not specifically listed as a controlled drug in any country at the present time, but its structural similarity to the drug pipradrol makes it possible that it would be considered a controlled substance analogue in several countries such as Australia and New Zealand.

Desoxypipradrol has shown some promise in privately funded studies at reducing or eliminating instances of sleep paralysis.

 

[Iron Lungz]

That could be said about several things on the market now.

Makes you want to just gobble up pills that you dont know what in them huh?

 

[Biceps]

are you going to change it from phenyl-pyrrolidinyltoluene? the ambiguity in that name seems to be causing the trouble

While phenyl-pyrrolidinyltoluene is the technically accurate name for the ingredient, just like 6-bromo-androstenedione is the technically accurate name for itself, keep an eye out for some updates from us next week. People have it all wrong.

 

[Biceps]

Desoxypipradrol, also known as 2-diphenylmethylpiperidine (2-DPMP),

That's the problem right there. That ingredient is known. Our proline analog is new.

 

[VolcomX311]

im surprised this hasnt been posted here...

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=462408

Actually it has.

 

[joeflex73]

When the dust clears from this, you guys are going to be satisfied. Patience gentlemen

 

[BigSmith]

Well if the performed GC/MS lab analysis is correct from the blueright forum then the ingredient deems to be pretty intere

Understood, however this is entirely not what is in SX. That is not even what they are speculating on.

 

[thesinner]

are you going to change it from phenyl-pyrrolidinyltoluene? the ambiguity in that name seems to be causing the trouble

All I can really say is when the patent clears.

As of current, that name is sufficient in telling what the compound is, without giving away propietary information about how to make or source it.

The underlying issue is that someone ran qualitative tests on SX, and found an unexpected peak. While gas chromatography run into a mass spec is a great way to pick out compounds from an unknown mixture, altogether it is not the most accurate means to identify an unknown compound, and many assumptions must be made about that mixture. Since this is a new and rather unique compound (hence pending a patent) its 'signature' is not all too well established. The end result is that we've got a bunch of guys on this bluelight forum trying to make sense of a peak that isn't clear.

 

[DAdams91982]

All I can really say is when the patent clears.

As of current, that name is sufficient in telling what the compound is, without giving away propietary information about how to make or source it.

The underlying issue is that someone ran qualitative tests on SX, and found an unexpected peak. While gas chromatography run into a mass spec is a great way to pick out compounds from an unknown mixture, altogether it is not the most accurate means to identify an unknown compound, and many assumptions must be made about that mixture. Since this is a new and rather unique compound (hence pending a patent) its 'signature' is not all too well established. The end result is that we've got a bunch of guys on this bluelight forum trying to make sense of a peak that isn't clear.

All due respect, but your name tells jack ****. The analogue naming is a shotty way of escaping telling someone what it is.. refer back to my cocaine comment. Someone went to bluelight for the sheer fact that the topic gets danced around at places like here, and they obviously know more about said types of compounds than people around here.

A pending patent is no reason not to tell someone what they are taking, especially when it affects someone so severely.

 

[T-AD]

That is precisely where you are mistaken and where you fail to understand. The compound in question does NOT affect someone "so severely". The speculation running around on that forum is such that they don't know what it is exactly. They are comparing it to known compounds with known side effects. This simply is NOT the case with this analog. People can get pissy all they want to at this point, but when the statement is released as to what exactly this is, will they all come back to apologize for making fools of themselves? Somehow I doubt it.

Until that statement is released ...which is very soon... keep on speculating. You're not making us look bad in the slightest.

 

[DAdams91982]

That is precisely where you are mistaken and where you fail to understand. The compound in question does NOT affect someone "so severely". The speculation running around on that forum is such that they don't know what it is exactly. They are comparing it to known compounds with known side effects. This simply is NOT the case with this analog. People can get pissy all they want to at this point, but when the statement is released as to what exactly this is, will they all come back to apologize for making fools of themselves? Somehow I doubt it.

Until that statement is released ...which is very soon... keep on speculating. You're not making us look bad in the slightest.

You seemingly are missing the point. First, I am not trying to make you look bad, I am simply pointing out your less than honorable business practices, possibly at the expense of your customers. As for the severely point, you have obviously seen the reports from consumers about your product, liking it to just under meth... thats pretty severe.

I will step out of this thread, mostly because no answers are given, and the issue is danced around. Plus, it's not even on AX, it is on the people who willingly swallow the BS that is being sold.

 

[jim623]

Plus, it's not even on AX,

We didn't start this tread, we know whats in it!

 

[DAdams91982]

We didn't start this tread, we know whats in it!

That was the point.. WE do not know what it is, but people are taking it willingly.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Even if it was completely laid out on the label you wouldn't solve that issue.

 

[DAdams91982]

Even if it was completely laid out on the label you wouldn't solve that issue.

So knowing that it was or was not a psycho active wouldn't solve the issue? (Realize this is a hypothetical)

 

[thesinner]

So knowing that it was or was not a psycho active wouldn't solve the issue? (Realize this is a hypothetical)

we're talking about a stimulant

 

[DAdams91982]

we're talking about a stimulant

Cocaethylene comes to mind, strait from cocaine, a stimulant.

Edit: let me preface that a tad... with alcohol.

 

[thesinner]

Cocaethylene comes to mind, strait from cocaine, a stimulant.

Edit: let me preface that a tad... with alcohol.

What does this have to do with anything?

Slim Xtreme is marketted as a stimulant fatburner. Of course the ingredient profile is going to be psychoactive. Stimulants are psychoactive.

 

[DAdams91982]

What does this have to do with anything?

Slim Xtreme is marketted as a stimulant fatburner. Of course the ingredient profile is going to be psychoactive. Stimulants are psychoactive.

I was actually specifying the unknowns actually. My fault for not pointing that out.

Again, my problem is with the unknowns, and AX passing it off to the consumer without the information to make a real informed decision.

AX I am sure is being watched hard by Mr. FDA, and honestly, it is severely warranted.

 

[ShakesAllDay]

I see it as the chicken vs egg argument. Company's wouldn't get away with shady stuff if the consumers would not buy their product. But, people buy this stuff up. So, who's at fault? Company's are greedy, people are stupid. Maybe it's the chicken AND the egg.

 

[T-AD]

The FDA is watching over everyone...surprise!! We've not drawn any attention to ourselves nor do we plan to do so. Once again, we CAN NOT disclose the exact specifics of which analog, which isomer, or which flavor icecream this is just yet. It's not going to happen until it happens, and when it happens, you'll be aware that it has happened. End of story.

As for all this speculation on "shady", turn the microscope to ANY other company out there. If you see the word "proprietary", then it's "shady". Look at all the clones out there who are making banned or borderline banned and yet they get away with it...shady??? Look at all the new PHs coming out right now despite it being common knowledge that the FDA has their sites set on the PH market. Company B puts out "Dudedrol", with "dudedrol prop matrix" listed as their first ingredient, followed by the nomenclature for Superdrol...or maybe none at all. Are you seriously going to tell me that you can see the nomenclature of any substance and know what it is right away? And are you seriously going to tell me you can understand the nomenclature of a NEW substance??? I doubt it.

Ok, sorry if I sound snippy here, but put yourself in our shoes. We're doing it the right way here - moving from the way it is DONE in this industry to the way that it SHOULD BE done. If we were some other company who believed that consumers are sheep and blind to everything, then we'd have stuck with the original labeling or even something more vague. We're taking strides toward FULL DISCLOSURE of the ingredients here, and yet we're getting slammed by people that we've never come in contact with before over a MINOR ingredient that is raising speculations that are completely wrong in the first place. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, and I highly doubt that there's going to be any really fantastic make-up sex after this post. But if you don't want to wait just a few more days for everything to be widely known, then instead of having the make-up sex with me, turn around and do it with yourself.

^^^Put as politely as I could darn well say it.

 

[DAdams91982]

The FDA is watching over everyone...surprise!! We've not drawn any attention to ourselves nor do we plan to do so. Once again, we CAN NOT disclose the exact specifics of which analog, which isomer, or which flavor icecream this is just yet. It's not going to happen until it happens, and when it happens, you'll be aware that it has happened. End of story.

As for all this speculation on "shady", turn the microscope to ANY other company out there. If you see the word "proprietary", then it's "shady". Look at all the clones out there who are making banned or borderline banned and yet they get away with it...shady??? Look at all the new PHs coming out right now despite it being common knowledge that the FDA has their sites set on the PH market. Company B puts out "Dudedrol", with "dudedrol prop matrix" listed as their first ingredient, followed by the nomenclature for Superdrol...or maybe none at all. Are you seriously going to tell me that you can see the nomenclature of any substance and know what it is right away? And are you seriously going to tell me you can understand the nomenclature of a NEW substance??? I doubt it.

Ok, sorry if I sound snippy here, but put yourself in our shoes. We're doing it the right way here - moving from the way it is DONE in this industry to the way that it SHOULD BE done. If we were some other company who believed that consumers are sheep and blind to everything, then we'd have stuck with the original labeling or even something more vague. We're taking strides toward FULL DISCLOSURE of the ingredients here, and yet we're getting slammed by people that we've never come in contact with before over a MINOR ingredient that is raising speculations that are completely wrong in the first place. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, and I highly doubt that there's going to be any really fantastic make-up sex after this post. But if you don't want to wait just a few more days for everything to be widely known, then instead of having the make-up sex with me, turn around and do it with yourself.

^^^Put as politely as I could darn well say it.

I must disagree that you did it right. If you were to do it right from the start, you would have awaited for the patent and put the full blown ingedients on the first bottle and released it later... that is only my opinion.

 

[ShakesAllDay]

I must disagree that you did it right. If you were to do it right from the start, you would have awaited for the patent and put the full blown ingedients on the first bottle and released it later... that is only my opinion.

I think the same thing.

As for all this speculation on "shady", turn the microscope to ANY other company out there. If you see the word "proprietary", then it's "shady". Look at all the clones out there who are making banned or borderline banned and yet they get away with it...shady???

I agree. I wasn't talking about AX, specifically. This is the case across the board with few exceptions.

 

[wontstop985]

Every time I read anything from an AX rep regarding their products (ever) it comes off as complete BS. But maybe that's just me.

 

[Jayhawkk]

At least you had something to add to this conversation with your reply...

 

[jim623]

Great news people, SX lite is now available at the AX home site or the link in my signiture. Enjoy!

 

[Zero V]

This has been a very interesting tid bit. Surrounding ethics and morality its hard to make a call.

I have used Stim X and Slim X. Both are amazing, with Slim X being more powerful(I use it rarely for a down day to get energy or for softball games). I did give it to a friend who spent 2 days awake though(never uses stimulants).

The company has the right to protect itself, but most companies with "proprietary" blends are usually ripping the customer off in one way or another. Or hiding something. Not saying AX is because I love the product, and it actually works great(I also like HX2 and Mass FX). This also applies to "secret ingredients" where they rename things, or name it in such a way it cant be figured out.

I think AX is receiving such a hardship because of how so many other companies have done people wrong, and basically your putting on the same uniform they wore, even if your intentions are different you are still clothed the same as they were at that time until you change up and show whats what.

These athletic and sports supplements people need to realize, are NOT for everyone. 90% of people in this nation(America) IMO has no right to be snatching up supplements, because they dont have a clue about this stuff. Slim X is amazing IMO, but how many users actually understand whats going on? Regardless of if every product is listed right or in amounts.

 

[T-AD]

I agree. I wasn't talking about AX, specifically. This is the case across the board with few exceptions.

And I agree with you as well, believe it or not. It's sometimes tough to be put in my position. On one hand, I'm a consumer with the same concerns as everyone else. On the other, I'm an AX guy with information that I simply can not speak until it is the appropriate time. Before anyone reads into that too much, I don't know everything or even half of it. But the behind the scenes knowledge that I do have remains behind the scenes until my bosses lift that curtain. Rock meets hardplace.

Every time I read anything from an AX rep regarding their products (ever) it comes off as complete BS. But maybe that's just me.

Every time I read something from a newbie who hasn't been around long enough to brew a fart before making his 50th post, my arse twitches. Maybe it's just me, but if you're new and just getting into this, you don't have a leg to stand on. If you're not new, but someone familiar using an alias, then you probably aren't standing on your legs so much as kneeling or bent over a pillow. /rant.

At least you had something to add to this conversation with your reply...

He did...another reason for me to fly off the handle today in a darkly, twisted, comical fashion. :mischievous:

Great news people, SX lite is now available at the AX home site or the link in my signiture. Enjoy!

Correction: SX Lite info is now up on the site. The product will be in VERY soon to order!!! :head:

This has been a very interesting tid bit. Surrounding ethics and morality its hard to make a call.

I have used Stim X and Slim X. Both are amazing, with Slim X being more powerful(I use it rarely for a down day to get energy or for softball games). I did give it to a friend who spent 2 days awake though(never uses stimulants).

The company has the right to protect itself, but most companies with "proprietary" blends are usually ripping the customer off in one way or another. Or hiding something. Not saying AX is because I love the product, and it actually works great(I also like HX2 and Mass FX). This also applies to "secret ingredients" where they rename things, or name it in such a way it cant be figured out.

I think AX is receiving such a hardship because of how so many other companies have done people wrong, and basically your putting on the same uniform they wore, even if your intentions are different you are still clothed the same as they were at that time until you change up and show whats what.

These athletic and sports supplements people need to realize, are NOT for everyone. 90% of people in this nation(America) IMO has no right to be snatching up supplements, because they dont have a clue about this stuff. Slim X is amazing IMO, but how many users actually understand whats going on? Regardless of if every product is listed right or in amounts.

FINALLY....someone who gets it!!! THANK YOU!!!!!! It's a hard coat to wear, as your analogy states. Would we like to put the exact ingredient names and amounts on a label? Sure!!! It's be SO much easier. Everyone would know exactly what it is with little to no leg work. In an ideal world, everyone would know what product labels mean, ingredient listings mean, and wikipedia would have complete and accurate descriptions of the ingredients. The downside is that as soon as the 1st bottle is sold, Product X25alpha from Perlman Cosmo, Inc. has already put out the product because they used fedex instead of UPS to deliver the freight. They claim to be first because they printed their at Kinko's 20 minutes before our design team saved the final draft, so therefor they're first to market and get the sole rights to it, else our original product is labeled a "clone". The industry is just too competitive to do that sort of thing. While the label here is not shady, it may be misunderstood. There is STILL a huge misunderstanding of it for 2 reasons: 1. The ingredient in question has yet to be uncovered in the proper terminology and realized that it is both novel and safe; and 2. The amount of said ingredient is not the "magic pixie dust" in SX, but rather one voice in the chorus singing back-up vocals.

At any rate, the crow population will still fall as they become popular dining fare within the coming days.

 

[wontstop985]

Every time I read something from a newbie who hasn't been around long enough to brew a fart before making his 50th post, my arse twitches. Maybe it's just me, but if you're new and just getting into this, you don't have a leg to stand on. If you're not new, but someone familiar using an alias, then you probably aren't standing on your legs so much as kneeling or bent over a pillow. /rant.

You're the guy that told people that Superdrol NG was a prohormone that requires a PCT. :tool:

Another quality post, from a quality rep, from a quality company.