Thanks again !

Damn im almost a week in now and my joints, specifically my elbows and knees are in a pretty bad way.

I take fish oil and have just got a premium MSM/glucosamine blend.

Anything else i can do? still have 1.5 bottles left.

Originally Posted by 0-hero

Damn im almost a week in now and my joints, specifically my elbows and knees are in a pretty bad way.

I take fish oil and have just got a premium MSM/glucosamine blend.

Anything else i can do? still have 1.5 bottles left.

I'd take 2-3 days off, double dose the glucosamine during those days, then start back at half a dose of LFX and go from there.

ty bro, will do.

Originally Posted by DR.D

I'd take 2-3 days off, double dose the glucosamine during those days, then start back at half a dose of LFX and go from there.

Good call. It might also be beneficial for him to try a lowered dose, since it hasn't even been a week yet and he's feeling the anti-cortisol sides.

Im hitting 3 a day, 1 upon waking, 1 mid day and 1 PWO (i train around 8pm).

I should mention that i although i am cutting, im still lifting heavy and doing both steady state and HIIT cardio.

I also do a lot of MMA and Muay thai.

So my joints are taking a hammering as it is, my uneducated guess is that this supplement and mostly the cort-reduction properties are simply enchancing issues that were already there?

Originally Posted by 0-hero

... So my joints are taking a hammering as it is, my uneducated guess is that this supplement and mostly the cort-reduction properties are simply enchancing issues that were already there?

Most likely. This LFX formula has a specific ingredient designed to really discourage that though, and be as clean as possible with joint pain protection. Some people are more susceptible that others to joint pain from cortisol antagonism, but maybe you're just really stressing your joints right now? The glucosamine should be a staple for you IMO, from the sound of things. You really need your joints with all those heavy and high-impact athletic interests.

Whether you are a martial artist, a fellatio artist, or just a regular artist who gets attacked by midgets (little people, to be more pc) weilding baseball bats, your joints are more than likely going to take a beating. Even so much as doing heavy squats or plyometrics can be very taxing on the knees. Let us also keep in mind the bodymass index (correlation of height, weight, and frame size), which flawfully places the majority of bodybuilders and athletes as obese. One of the major issues with obesity is the wear and tear of cartiledge tissues along the joints, to support all of the weight provided by excessive bodyfat. In regards to muscle mass, you might not be chubby, but the same logic applies, this time the shearing occurs due to "excess" muscle mass (I put excess in quotes because...seriously...can you really get too much?).

From my experiences, althought the BMI is worthless for determining bodyfat, it is an excellent tool for determining how your joints hold up. In the cycles I've done, there's been times were I get to the 200lbs mark. For my height and frame, that puts me into the obese category, and that's when I start to feel myself "caving-in on myself". In other words, there is enough weight to pose damaging stresses on the joints. With some of the higher intensity exercises and activities I enjoy doing, this simply doesn't work out well, and started to get to the point where I would quit workouts early, due to the pain in my knees.

I had no idea LeanFX kicked up a side effect of joint issues. Certainly explains a couple of things I been feeling lately. I missed that bit of info when I was researching Lfx. I'm not going to bother stopping now, my bottle runs out this Sunday. After which I will be starting 3-AD.

Originally Posted by thesinner

Whether you are a martial artist, a fellatio artist, or just a regular artist who gets attacked by midgets (little people, to be more pc) ...

Fellatio artist, you mean 'fluffers'?

Dude, what about the artist formerly known as prince?? Now I got you cornered in an impossible riddle, sinner!

Originally Posted by lonewolf0420

I had no idea LeanFX kicked up a side effect of joint issues. Certainly explains a couple of things I been feeling lately. I missed that bit of info when I was researching Lfx. I'm not going to bother stopping now, my bottle runs out this Sunday. After which I will be starting 3-AD.

It's pretty rare though, so keep that in perspective. A reduction in dose will often overcome it.

Originally Posted by DR.D

Fellatio artist, you mean 'fluffers'?

Dude, what about the artist formerly known as prince?? Now I got you cornered in an impossible riddle, sinner!

Aren't the two one in the same?

I just figured those "artists" spend a lot of time on their knees, and knee-to-floor contact is going to offer more shear stress than tibia/fibula-to-knee-to-femur contact (i.e. standing).

Yes no doubt my joints take a pounding.

Yesterday i did german volume training (modified) then in the PM i did 2 hours of muay thai, ive always cycled Glucosamine hcl / MSM and the like in high doses due to this.

I think LX has just highlighted what some other things have been hiding.

And yeah your right on the "obese" comment, at fight weight im 220lbs (6ft 2) and feel like superman, since my injury ive been as high as 285 (as of today down to 269) and the joints have definately been more of an issue.

Thanks for the help all.

Originally Posted by thesinner

Aren't the two one in the same?

I just figured those "artists" spend a lot of time on their knees, and knee-to-floor contact is going to offer more shear stress than tibia/fibula-to-knee-to-femur contact (i.e. standing).

Actually, prince had legally changed his name to some sort of symbol, but has since changed it back. He's just plain ol' prince now. I only know from when he performed at the superbowl a couple years ago.

as for the joint problems with these sockcuckers, they've also got the whole repetitive head-bobbing thing going on. can't be good for the neck joints. From a health perspective, perhaps these people should just stop sucking c0ck

Originally Posted by gerby

Actually, prince had legally changed his name to some sort of symbol, but has since changed it back. He's just plain ol' prince now. I only know from when he performed at the superbowl a couple years ago.

as for the joint problems with these sockcuckers, they've also got the whole repetitive head-bobbing thing going on. can't be good for the neck joints. From a health perspective, perhaps these people should just stop sucking c0ck's that aren't mine

Editted your post in the quote. LOL. So long as the head-movements aren't rapid, it shouldn't be too bad. I'd imagine rockin' out to your favorite metal song would be more damaging. After all, if she's jerking her head, her chin will be driving full-force into something, possibly leading to an unpleasant experience.

Yeah, I had heard Prince changed his name back from an unpronouncable symbol. He is an odd character.

hello,

why all the retain were discontinued? i was lean as never i do not remember which one it was but i tried Retain 1 & 2 from AX and Alri retain, it was always awesome!

It was just re-named to lean-fx. Same main active 17b-triol in Lean-FX.

So if you liked Retain 2, you will love Lean-FX.

Originally Posted by BigSmith

It was just re-named to lean-fx. Same main active 17b-triol in Lean-FX.

So if you liked Retain 2, you will love Lean-FX.

just renamed? More went into it than just taking the same product and putting it in a different bottle, no?

Originally Posted by gerby

just renamed? More went into it than just taking the same product and putting it in a different bottle, no?

Yes, definitely. The formula was tweaked and instead of going to Retain3, it was changed to LeanFX. A nano-release and AneurinDBE were added to LeanFX, improving on the already successful R2 formula.

What is the difference between lean fx and lean xtreme as far as the actives? Which one would be most effective for holding on to muscle mass during pct?Thanks

Originally Posted by AML

What is the difference between lean fx and lean xtreme as far as the actives? Which one would be most effective for holding on to muscle mass during pct?Thanks

Well your asking a biases source. We feel we formulated the best, I am sure they do as well. Lean-FX is extremely effective for what you are looking for. That being said.....LX is also. Both great products.

so lean FX would be better optimal on PCT rather than Slim extreme from what I have researched due to the cortisol reducing properties of the lean fx?????

I know what 5-Androstene-3B,7B,17B-triol is and I believe Aneurin DBE is a vitamin B1 analog?? What about the other ingredients? What are they and what do they do? What are the Indoleamines from Cats claw root bark? Also what are the Purine metabolites from Cha'de Bugre? What is Stigmast-5-En-3b-OL? Thanks for your help.

Originally Posted by AML

I know what 5-Androstene-3B,7B,17B-triol is and I believe Aneurin DBE is a vitamin B1 analog?? What about the other ingredients? What are they and what do they do? What are the Indoleamines from Cats claw root bark? Also what are the Purine metabolites from Cha'de Bugre? What is Stigmast-5-En-3b-OL? Thanks for your help.

This link should answer all of your questions. Its a PDF of the ingredient breakdown.

http://www.anabolicx.com/downloads/p.../LeanFX-pg.pdf

I am running a five week cycle of hdrol and am planning cort control for PCT. This is my first cycle and the problem is I am having a hard time figuring out when the best time to start cort control is. I've heard everything from day one of PCT to day 15. However, no reasoning or explanation is given with the recommendations.

I'd like to understand the pros/cons of starting cort control at different points of PCT so that I can make an educated decision. I don't know why I can't get an answer to this. Can someone PLEASE shed some light on this, maybe an AX rep can help me get to the bottom of this.

Thanks in advance.

I'm sure someone will give a better explanation then me, but here it goes. I've read that many, including myself, add in LeanFX(for example) during week two of your PCT. By then your "cycled" product will be out of your system and your body will be reacting to the lack of supplement that was their while on cycle. This stresses the body, boosting cortisol levels.

I don't think there are any real cons to starting "cort control" during the first week. Your cort levels just aren't/won't be as high at that time.

Originally Posted by lonewolf0420

I'm sure someone will give a better explanation then me, but here it goes. I've read that many, including myself, add in LeanFX(for example) during week two of your PCT. By then your "cycled" product will be out of your system and your body will be reacting to the lack of supplement that was their while on cycle. This stresses the body, boosting cortisol levels.

I don't think there are any real cons to starting "cort control" during the first week. Your cort levels just aren't/won't be as high at that time.

You're right, as far as i know you can start right away. Personally, I start taking Lean FX right at the start of my PCT everytime and its always worked great

Originally Posted by lonewolf0420

I'm sure someone will give a better explanation then me, but here it goes. I've read that many, including myself, add in LeanFX(for example) during week two of your PCT. By then your "cycled" product will be out of your system and your body will be reacting to the lack of supplement that was their while on cycle. This stresses the body, boosting cortisol levels.

I don't think there are any real cons to starting "cort control" during the first week. Your cort levels just aren't/won't be as high at that time.

You have to ask yourself at what point is the cycled product completely out of your system? If you're using orals (you mentioned h-drol) they will be out of your system the next day. This is why you take these drugs daily, instead of injectables that you might pin once or twice a week, or even once every 14 days with some compounds. This depends on the half-life of the compound. If your coming off h-drol, I'd use the cort control right away. Think about it, if your going to control for estrogen with a serm or AI (or both) why would you not control for cort? If the stuff is still exerting its effects on your system, you wouldn't need to control for estrogen either, which is why the serm isn't started right away for some injectibles, but usually started immediately upon cessasion of oral compounds (every otc designer that I can think of) and the doses to start are very high for the first few days. Why? Because this is when estrogen will be at it's worst, and also when cort will be at it's worst. That's why some people run an 11-oxo bridge right away before starting PCT, to get the cort levels down.

This is the way I look at it anyway, but I'm open to other reasonings.

Originally Posted by gerby

You have to ask yourself at what point is the cycled product completely out of your system? If you're using orals (you mentioned h-drol) they will be out of your system the next day. This is why you take these drugs daily, instead of injectables that you might pin once or twice a week, or even once every 14 days with some compounds. This depends on the half-life of the compound. If your coming off h-drol, I'd use the cort control right away. Think about it, if your going to control for estrogen with a serm or AI (or both) why would you not control for cort? If the stuff is still exerting its effects on your system, you wouldn't need to control for estrogen either, which is why the serm isn't started right away for some injectibles, but usually started immediately upon cessasion of oral compounds (every otc designer that I can think of) and the doses to start are very high for the first few days. Why? Because this is when estrogen will be at it's worst, and also when cort will be at it's worst. That's why some people run an 11-oxo bridge right away before starting PCT, to get the cort levels down.

This is the way I look at it anyway, but I'm open to other reasonings.

Holy hell! I don't know if my eyes are deceiving me or not but I can't believe I finally got a logical answer that makes a lot of sense. Thanks bro!

Seems like this answer was based on logic rather than science (nothing wrong with that) but if the logic doesn't jibe with the science I hope someone will elaborate further. Unless I hear a better argument to wait I'll be starting cort control on day one of PCT.

Originally Posted by LAGear

... Unless I hear a better argument to wait I'll be starting cort control on day one of PCT.

Gerb and Sublime are correct. Start cort control day one of PCT. The first week is the time for the highest dose (4-6 caps), the second week is still pretty important (2-3 caps), the third week you can taper off completely if you like (1 cap).